ESO Class Rep Program Status

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hello everyone,

Four years ago, we spun up the Class Representative Program to help us focus on class feedback that mattered to the community and to make sure your voice was being heard. We looked to the community subject matter experts to make certain the main class concerns were being brought to light.

Over the past couple years, we’ve found our original needs have changed as the game and team have evolved; we have a very different Dev Team than we did when we first defined and launched this program. Outside of the individuals that currently make up the Combat Team, the way we collect and act on feedback has progressed and improved, and our goals for classes and combat have morphed (no pun intended) since ESO launched. This isn’t to say we no longer are interested in feedback on combat; rather, our goals for a program such as this one have changed.

As such, we’ve made the difficult decision to sunset the Class Rep Program in its current state. We will be taking a step back to reassess the purpose of the program and to ensure we are bringing the most value for the team and all of you. We also need to ensure we are utilizing and leveraging the vast knowledge and feedback from the community in the most efficient way possible, and in return, are more transparent in relaying information from the program out to everyone.

We want to thank the Class Reps for being part of this integral program and the years of dedication. They have brought so much invaluable feedback and insights over the years and having a knowledgeable group that we could trust has been vital to the growth and improvement of the game.

Thanks for reading and we’ll let everyone know when we have any plans to share.

Masel

It was a blast! I've moved on from the game by now, but i have only good things to say both about the great community and the dev team we have been in communication with. ESO has been a part of my life for so long that it still feels weird to say that it's not anymore.

The program made me grow personally, I've learned to grow a thicker skin and it allowed me to get to know a great bunch of people worldwide.


Cheers folks, if there's anything you want me to relay to the devs, my ear is always open

NettleCarrier

Can you tell us which kinds of changes were the direct result of this program? It always seemed rather ineffective when a class representative made a detailed post about problem areas for each class.

Glory

Just wanted to say thank you to the ESO development team for having me as part of the program.

It's wonderful to hear that the dev team has better channels for feedback. I know that despite how hard the representatives worked to listen to the community, there were always difficulties in processing and presenting information from so many.

I'll still be lurking in various places, and I hope to see you all in Tamriel!

SantieClaws

This former Community Ambassador offers her best wishes and things to all who helped in this program.

Khajiit also recommends fishing as a worthwhile diversion while adjusting to life in Tamriellic retirement.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

ManDraKE

Seeing the current balance/design decisions made on this patch, is clear that whatever evolution the team had it's not giving very good results

If there was an OKR for having the game balance in a good state, you can already mark that one as failed

Nefas

Finally, I will be pinged less in Discord! Now I can break the NDA for ingame Alkahest.

Jokes aside, it was an absolute honor and privilege to be a Class Representative and to serve the communities in ESO alongside the 9 other Class Reps.

Hexys

4 years already?!

Even though it didn't last that very long for me, it was fun to be part of the program and have talks regarding the game with the team. Balancing ESO is a big challenge, impossible to always please everyone.

A big thanks to the class reps who were here during all this time and good luck to the Combat team!

Cadbury

Masel

ManDraKE wrote: »

Seeing the current balance/design decisions made on this patch, is clear that whatever evolution the team had it's not giving very good results

If there was an OKR for having the game balance in a good state, you can already mark that one as failed

There's so many false implicit assumptions in here that i don't even know where to start. And since I stopped playing the game seriously, i actually won't start at all

NeeScrolls

Masel wrote: »

There's so many false implicit assumptions in here that i don't even know where to start. And since I stopped playing the game seriously, i actually won't start at all

Without getting into the slippery-slope of "bashing" (obviously) , imho it's usually helpful at the end of well-intentioned but ultimately futile programs like this to have some level of transparency , if for no other reason than to squash as much typical conspiracy-theory nonsense as possible.

So, for all still titled REPS: If you're allowed/authorized to divulge a bit more of how the Class-sausage-was-done (or un-done) , i for one would certainly be interested in reading. Thanks.

Ratzkifal

Not to be a negative Nancy, but what "better channels" are there? It's kind of weird to claim you have better channels when these better channels are not known to the public at all. Or are you meant to tell us that you have now started to look at the official forum more?

I truly hope that you've actually improved the way you collect and evaluate feedback rather than simply claiming you have for PR reasons, because ESO used to be my favorite game and I hate to see it slowly becoming a shadow of its former glory.

Mr_Stach

It's really hard to gauge how effective or ineffective the Class Rep system was due to a lot of the Rep to Dev communication being locked behind a NDA.



If the goal behind the system was to give the community a voice, I personally haven't felt particularly heard. I'm really trying to stay productive here, but if we could have some enlightenment on what kind of communication that the Class Rep system drove to in-game changes, I'm sure that would change people's opinions on the matter.

I worry that with the removal of class reps, even less will be heard. I want the community to have a voice, and if Class Reps aren't the way, then in what way will we be able to have player driven changes?

TPishek

This sounds less like a way to better assess priorities and more like a way to disregard any accountability.

acastanza_ESO

ZOS's combat direction is bad for the game and this is just them formalizing that they both don't care and don't want to hear us complain about it anymore. Just my 2 cents.

EnerG

Issue is ZOS, your accountability, and communication SUCKS, this program was an attempt to help fix that and I can't remember ANY significant changes that came from it. If you're doing away with this then you need to find SOMEBODY whos job it is to keep the players informed FULL-TIME. Period.

Ratzkifal

If I had to boil down the "success" of the class rep program, this passage from the class rep meeting notes would probably be it:

Note: Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race. With these additions, stealth gameplay will open up to more players, and also allow bosmers to have the nice combat buff will still having avenues to be as stealthy as before.

Basically ZOS ignoring the exact feedback they were given, by the reps no less - "concerned Bosmer are trading in stealth for different buffs", proceeds to trade in stealth for different buffs, doing the exact thing players didn't like, then refusing to elaborate or revisit this change. Also back then we did think of the possibility of something like CP2.0 "opening up stealth to more players", which it did, but that is not what our concern was about. Being extra stealthy has been part of Bosmer identity since TES:Arena and you still haven't remedied that despite repeated feedback.
No, I am still not letting that go.

So yeah, I would be glad to hear that the class rep program has been replaced with something more efficient, because it wasn't actually working as far as I could tell. But since we are being left in this limbo of not knowing how ZOS will collect feedback from now on, I can only feel more disappointed.

That being said, I appreciate the time and effort the class reps poured into this program and from what I can tell you did the best job you possibly could.

DarcyMardin

Thanks and great appreciation to all the people who have served as class reps over the years.

That said, I’d be curious to learn more about how the dev team is going to communicate with us players from now on? There’s seems to be a general feeling here on the forum that their current communication with us is not very effective.

maxjapank

I never felt that that some class representatives really represented all players. I’m sure some really did try their best. But seemed more of an inside group that only consulted with players they deemed “better.” I remember many in my guild who felt their voices weren’t being heard.

Nevertheless, I’m overall happy with how the classes I play have turned out recently.

Tommy_The_Gun

I am a little bit confused.

If Class Rep program is going to be closed... then how exactly the "feedback" will work ? Where are we suppose to post it & say what we think needs attention ? Are "Class Rep" threads (like this one for example):
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416456/class-rep-nightblade-feedback-thread/p1
going to be closed too ? Will we be only able to give feedback during short "burst" windows when there is a PTS season ?

Part of me wants to think that the communication will improve and ZOS will gather feedback data from all players, rather than the ones who represents players & community. On the other hand I am afraid of the wording that was used. I hope it is not the case in which company that makes the game will have different goals in mind than the players who play the game, when it comes to balance.

Time will tell, I guess.

ManDraKE

Masel wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Seeing the current balance/design decisions made on this patch, is clear that whatever evolution the team had it's not giving very good results

If there was an OKR for having the game balance in a good state, you can already mark that one as failed

There's so many false implicit assumptions in here that i don't even know where to start. And since I stopped playing the game seriously, i actually won't start at all

there isn't a single assumption in my comment, implicit or explicit. I was making reference to the "evolution of the developer team" that is clearly not as good as they are picturing on this thread. The current status of the game is the undeniable proof of that.

You probably didn't interpret well what i wrote.

silvereyes

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I am a little bit confused.

If Class Rep program is going to be closed... then how exactly the "feedback" will work ? Where are we suppose to post it & say what we think needs attention ?

It's a bit dated, but Rich talked about this a few years ago (emphasis mine).

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/633823257?t=00h35m35s

Unattributed wrote:

As a project manager myself, I know how dealing with different teams to deliver a project is. How do you personally handle having to find the balance between the clients and the players' expectations and your team's vision?

ZOS_RichLambert wrote:

That one's hard to answer in a short amount of time, because it really can kind of go on forever. Really, what it comes down to is:

• having a vision - kind of knowing where we want to go and what we think are the most important things;
• using data - so we have tons of data, tons of analytic data that we can kind of go through; and
• getting feedback from social media and the forums and whatnot - kind of putting those all together to kind of reinforce the direction, and kind of reinforce some of the decisions we're making.

You know, I'm a big fan of using the term, "data informed," and not, "data driven," because you can make data tell you anything. The same data can be looked at by multiple people, and you can all come up with multiple theories, or make it show you that your theory is correct. So kind of taking your intuition, your experiences, and then other people's experiences, and kind of matching that up against the data kinda helps do that.

That's how I do things, for the most part. I don't just [say], "I am the hand of God. Do what I tell you 'cause that's what I told you to do." The team generally drives a lot of that stuff, but sometimes, there are decisions where it's just like, "no, we just have to do it this way, and this is why, and sorry, it's not up for debate."

I think we've done a pretty good job overall, of responding to player feedback, and listening to player feedback over the years. I think were kind of one of the best teams in the business at that. I think we could get better at it, but I think we do do a lot, overall.

So basically, talk to them here or on social media. If they are already thinking along the same lines from their own and other players' experiences, then things may change. If there's not much consensus, then all bets are off. They may ignore it as unimportant, or they may just decide to do their own thing.

forthwinds

I miss Tasear

FeaR Turbo

It was an honor. Thank you for all the memories. Elder Scrolls Online has grown in many ways and as part of the community, I welcome its further development for many years. Cheers!

Hotdog_23

Thanks to all those involved for what you did for ESO and the community.

Stay safe

CP5

silvereyes wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I am a little bit confused.

If Class Rep program is going to be closed... then how exactly the "feedback" will work ? Where are we suppose to post it & say what we think needs attention ?

It's a bit dated, but Rich talked about this a few years ago (emphasis mine).

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/633823257?t=00h35m35s

Unattributed wrote:

As a project manager myself, I know how dealing with different teams to deliver a project is. How do you personally handle having to find the balance between the clients and the players' expectations and your team's vision?

ZOS_RichLambert wrote:

That one's hard to answer in a short amount of time, because it really can kind of go on forever. Really, what it comes down to is:

• having a vision - kind of knowing where we want to go and what we think are the most important things;
• using data - so we have tons of data, tons of analytic data that we can kind of go through; and
• getting feedback from social media and the forums and whatnot - kind of putting those all together to kind of reinforce the direction, and kind of reinforce some of the decisions we're making.

You know, I'm a big fan of using the term, "data informed," and not, "data driven," because you can make data tell you anything. The same data can be looked at by multiple people, and you can all come up with multiple theories, or make it show you that your theory is correct. So kind of taking your intuition, your experiences, and then other people's experiences, and kind of matching that up against the data kinda helps do that.

That's how I do things, for the most part. I don't just [say], "I am the hand of God. Do what I tell you 'cause that's what I told you to do." The team generally drives a lot of that stuff, but sometimes, there are decisions where it's just like, "no, we just have to do it this way, and this is why, and sorry, it's not up for debate."

I think we've done a pretty good job overall, of responding to player feedback, and listening to player feedback over the years. I think were kind of one of the best teams in the business at that. I think we could get better at it, but I think we do do a lot, overall.

So basically, talk to them here or on social media. If they are already thinking along the same lines from their own and other players' experiences, then things may change. If there's not much consensus, then all bets are off. They may ignore it as unimportant, or they may just decide to do their own thing.

Some concerns I have here is, as we've seen over time, even on those other channels little is ever done. The bosmer thread went to, what, 100 pages, without any sort of attention. As many know I'm invested in seeing some changes to overland content, but between December and an interview that happened a few months ago there was no change in the given response to the question "are there any plans for this," implying to me that those threads, the dozen or so that were locked and the official one that was made, all went unread and ignored, and if I wanted to I could make this list far longer.

ZOS needs to actually try to keep more transparent communication about their plans, and actually respond to feedback. What of the wardens who were so heavily off put with the patch, or others who felt some of the changes went too far? Was there a detailed explanation, a short quip trying to explain the change away, or nothing? I'll be honest I forgot this program was a thing, since it never felt like feedback go to the developers any better with it, and nothing had been said of it for so long.

chattygeekHD

From someone who adores this game, thanks to everyone who has been involved.
I love my Warden and I feel like I have something that I am really enjoying the journey with - and it's thanks to the Devs, and all the fans and contributors out there that put the work in, give the feedback, and keep the whole team positive.

I'll be looking forward to how all the devs, contributors and players continue to improve this game and make it a home.


Much loves!

jecks33

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

If Class Rep program is going to be closed... then how exactly the "feedback" will work ?

"thing X killed me in pvp, nerf it!!!1!!123" and next patch you'll see a nerf, more or less how it works now

Destai

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone,

Four years ago, we spun up the Class Representative Program to help us focus on class feedback that mattered to the community and to make sure your voice was being heard. We looked to the community subject matter experts to make certain the main class concerns were being brought to light.

Over the past couple years, we’ve found our original needs have changed as the game and team have evolved; we have a very different Dev Team than we did when we first defined and launched this program. Outside of the individuals that currently make up the Combat Team, the way we collect and act on feedback has progressed and improved, and our goals for classes and combat have morphed (no pun intended) since ESO launched. This isn’t to say we no longer are interested in feedback on combat; rather, our goals for a program such as this one have changed.

As such, we’ve made the difficult decision to sunset the Class Rep Program in its current state. We will be taking a step back to reassess the purpose of the program and to ensure we are bringing the most value for the team and all of you. We also need to ensure we are utilizing and leveraging the vast knowledge and feedback from the community in the most efficient way possible, and in return, are more transparent in relaying information from the program out to everyone.

We want to thank the Class Reps for being part of this integral program and the years of dedication. They have brought so much invaluable feedback and insights over the years and having a knowledgeable group that we could trust has been vital to the growth and improvement of the game.

Thanks for reading and we’ll let everyone know when we have any plans to share.

Appreciate the heads up, but I think much, much more detail is warranted. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_kevin

Can you elaborate on how they've improved? It's hard to not make assumptions here - that assumption being that you're relying solely on quantitative feedback and shutting down any possibility of direct, qualitative feedback.

You also mentioned goals being changed - what are those goals? How will you go about accomplishing them? This seem like very vague language around a topic that was really fundamental to the community.

danwtayl

We had a Class rep program? Wow I didn't know

Didgerion

I'm quite sure 10 out of 10 class representatives told you that Oakensoul is ridiculously overpowered, yet the company decided to release it as is.

If the reps are not heard then to close the program is the right thing to do.

But a better decision would be to start listening to them and not shut them down.

Also please! please! play your own game, you will get so much feedback just for doing it.