Please, nerf Pelin's Deck

Eric_Prince

Good day, ZOS and fellow card players.

In my opinion, and after several dozens of games played, the whole game is quite well-balanced. But with one exception. Pelin's deck. It makes rounds too dull, dumb, simple and uninteresting. Well, maybe not the deck in general, since it's theme is to be dumb and simple, raw power, little combos and such. But I find two particular cards too strong for a balanced game.

You see, every single time 'The Armory' or 'Rally' (for mid-game) comes in game, it becomes a priority to take this card instantly. You just have to do it, otherwise your opponent will. And with such raw power at their hand... well, winning is almost never an option. It is possible, but not because you can effectively counter those cards, no. Simply by good luck. I've won maybe a few games against players with 3-4 Pelin's cards in their deck (that's all you need to win). And it was only by a pure luck. They had bad combos, I had good ones. That's it.

But Tales of Tribute is a game of strategy, not JUST luck. I know that, because I witnessed victories that seemed impossible, but with good strategies players won games that seemed lost for sure. Against many decks but... yeah, Pelin's. If a player bought a few Pelin's cards, they're almost invincible. Especially if we're talking about 'The Armory', since it can be bought right on the first turn. That's just not right. Playing Pelin's deck makes everything braindead easy. Just buy red cards whenever you can and you'll probably win.

I suggest these changes.

- Make 'The Armory' cost 6 coins. These way you can buy it on the first turn only if you're lucky. It's not a good solution, but since ToT has an element of luck in it, that's okay.
- Change it like this. 'The Armory' gives 1 gold, 2 power upon use, +2 power in 2 cards combo, +1 in 3 cards combo. It's still +1 gold, +5 power overall, but is needs to be played in combo to give full power.

Something similar to 'Rally':
Change it to give 5 power upon use, +2 power in 2 cards combo. It's still very powerful, but not overpowered. It can't turn the tides of battle just by itself.

In conclusion. I know, Pelin's deck can be beaten. I've won against good Pelin's combos a few times while using Rajhin's deck or Crows. But almost every time it was pure luck plus a little strategy to build at least a decent combos (or, with Rajhin, destroy your opponents's combos). But that is a level of a skilled player. If so, Pelin's should be unlockable deck similar to King Orgnum. High level, powerful deck for veteran players. Right now Pelins's deck makes even a completely new player powerful enough to beat almost anybody with just a little luck. I propose to change that in a good way, without ruining deck's identity and without crippling it. It will still be powerful. Just not overpowered.

ESO_Nightingale

yeah red is a bit too strong

moleculardrugs

Tribute might benefit if some of Red's cards lost 1 power

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

TinyDragon

I do strongly agree that the armoury in particular is very strong. I think it would be better nerfed as well.

Plus, perhaps because I'm not so experienced, I don't really see a way to play other than focusing purple or red. Yellow and blue just don't give you enough power in comparison; they seem sort of complimentary.

Having said that, I haven't played any others than the base deck yet.

kmfdm

Pelin is not overpowered at all, Armory is not imbalanced. When everybody is just learning the game by using the rush strategy, it might look like the best card, but once more Eagles and Sorcs stars appearing, Armory and Pelin will lose their appeal.

TinyDragon

kmfdm wrote: »

Pelin is not overpowered at all, Armory is not imbalanced. When everybody is just learning the game by using the rush strategy, it might look like the best card, but once more Eagles and Sorcs stars appearing, Armory and Pelin will lose their appeal.

I haven't played with either, can you give me a little insight into how they combat Pelin?

Then I can be prepared!

Lysette

kmfdm wrote: »

Pelin is not overpowered at all, Armory is not imbalanced. When everybody is just learning the game by using the rush strategy, it might look like the best card, but once more Eagles and Sorcs stars appearing, Armory and Pelin will lose their appeal.

°°This, people have just not yet an idea, what power is in those other decks - Pelin is not overpowered - it just has a very straight forward form of power, whereas the other decks are not that straight forward and need a bit of preparation before their strength can be used. But Eagle for example is an extremely powerful card set as well, and so are the others, each of these decks with a certain focus supporting certain play styles or having support roles.

Just stay away from messing around with it and demanding nerfs - ToT is like someone pointed out very similar to another successful deck-building card game and these card decks make sense just as they are.

Lysette

TinyDragon wrote: »

kmfdm wrote: »

Pelin is not overpowered at all, Armory is not imbalanced. When everybody is just learning the game by using the rush strategy, it might look like the best card, but once more Eagles and Sorcs stars appearing, Armory and Pelin will lose their appeal.

I haven't played with either, can you give me a little insight into how they combat Pelin?

Then I can be prepared!

By being faster than Pelin - take Eagle for example, every card in the deck provides power and most cards in that set provide the ability to make your card deck smaller, which means you play your whole deck in a much shorter time and your successful cards can be played more often. Now combine that with the Duke and you play your whole card deck in every turn, and nearly every card in that deck has as well power - Eagle is not necessarily strong at start, but it can roll over any Pelin in a very short amount of time, and especially a Duke/Eagle strategy is towards the end that strong, that Pelin cannot keep up, it might hit 40+ sooner, but Duke/Eagle will just roll over it and it has this huge power gain in every turn, Pelin cannot beat that anymore.

SeaGtGruff

"I died to a player who was using Pelin, so Pelin should be nerfed."

No, no, a thousand times, no, I beg of thee! We needs Pelin, we needs it!

Lysette

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

"I died to a player who was using Pelin, so Pelin should be nerfed."

No, no, a thousand times, no, I beg of thee! We needs Pelin, we needs it!

Let them pick the armory, care for hlaalu cards and acquire the Rally before they can do - and you are better off.

Foxtrot39

TinyDragon wrote: »

I do strongly agree that the armoury in particular is very strong. I think it would be better nerfed as well.

Plus, perhaps because I'm not so experienced, I don't really see a way to play other than focusing purple or red. Yellow and blue just don't give you enough power in comparison; they seem sort of complimentary.

Having said that, I haven't played any others than the base deck yet.

Yellow can be great for mentor rushing as Money exchange combo is basicaly a tribute card and its mentor allow you to thin out your deck from unwanted card provided they came from the tavern

Problem with pelin is 2 card can easly give a massive advantage, you don't NEED to play pelin but just 2 of its card to get a massive advantage and since they don't need a combo you get the full effect every time

Lysette

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

TinyDragon wrote: »

I do strongly agree that the armoury in particular is very strong. I think it would be better nerfed as well.

Plus, perhaps because I'm not so experienced, I don't really see a way to play other than focusing purple or red. Yellow and blue just don't give you enough power in comparison; they seem sort of complimentary.

Having said that, I haven't played any others than the base deck yet.

Yellow can be great for mentor rushing as Money exchange combo is basicaly a tribute card and its mentor allow you to thin out your deck from unwanted card provided they came from the tavern

Problem with pelin is 2 card can easly give a massive advantage, you don't NEED to play pelin but just 2 of its card to get a massive advantage and since they don't need a combo you get the full effect every time

But who has the ability to acquire the Rally most likely - the one having cared for building up a large amount of coins in each turn or the one who went early for the armory and is behind in generating coins. I had this often, not taking the armory and leave it to the other, while I cared for getting more buying power, gaining a higher chance with it, to get the Rally, which is a much more helpful card in a combo deck.

kmfdm

If you are able to get Rally btw, and are playing against Orgnum, you are probably already 30 prestige behind.

Lysette

kmfdm wrote: »

If you are able to get Rally btw, and are playing against Orgnum, you are probably already 30 prestige behind.

I have no idea, never had an opponent playing that deck yet. I'm not a pelin player btw, but if I can get Rally, why not. But I'm as well not sad, if no one is selecting Pelin - I won't, if I don't have to.

Ah I see, just had a look at ESO-hub - pretty nasty deck that is (Orgnum). I think that is the beauty of the game, that it has so many ways to play it and each of the decks has it's special abilities. Those lower decks seem to be pretty strong to me and eventually they are meant to be stronger to incentivize looking for those decks and upgrade cards.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

yes the game is bad

dmnqwk

The only thing about Pelin is it's too front-loaded.

Everything about Pelin grants you standalone power, meaning you take those cards regardless of synergy.

Combo 3 is used for Crow and Rahjin, but only Crow draws so many cards so if Rahjin can have Combo 3 abilities, why can't St Pelin?

I do agree that Rally would've been nicer being: Play: 5 power, Combo 2: Draw a card, Combo 3: 2 power (which is a nerf, but overall better)
The Armory should've been Play: 1 coin 2 power: Combo 2: 2 power: Combo 3: 1 coin 2 power. Again, it's an overall buff BUT forcing the combo to work.

But it's too late to worry about things now, it is what it is and maybe once the final 2 decks are unlocked we'll see St. Pelin cards become weaker.

Casdha

I only have the starter decks and after reading this thread I've taken to never picking it unless I have to. I actually got a game last night that this deck was not picked and it was a blast and I actually won

Heartrage

It’s fine as it is, i lost plenty of games while getting rally and won plenty of games against opponents that had it. People think it’s overpowered now because the game is new and most players go for this deck because it’s the simplest and most direct way to win a game.

sharquez

It's like Week 2 of the game being officially out. The goal isn't to sit and shuffle your deck deck endlessly with no progress towards victory. Ending the game is the goal and Pelin Moves the game towards its end by making sure even a dead hand has some bite to it.
BUT
Players who filled their hand with Pelin cards from the get go are usually gold poor and have /non synergistic hands.
Starve them out with Psijic cards, and get rich with Hlaalu. out draw with crow, etc.

Some games are blow outs and that happens but if you think ahead and shift your focus early you can turn it around. A couple turns of high-rolling with Hlaalu and bouncing the good stuff with you can't afford while your opponent has to buy garbage with limited funds to keep up will bring your games where they do get armory/ back.

Jusey1

TinyDragon wrote: »

Yellow and blue just don't give you enough power in comparison; they seem sort of complimentary.

Yellow's power is the patron himself. Yellow gives A LOT of gold while also a lot of high level cards. The latter works well with the patron himself since you get points toward winning the game by sacrificing your cards to him. Since a lot of the highly costly yellow cards are essentially merchants with one or two health, it's honestly better to use them for their combos once and sacrifice that power increase. The combos help you get new cards to replace them as you sacrifice them, kinda get a ring of death and power going with your cards.

Rouz

Here are where I think the major issues are for balance

Pelin - Deck. Specifically the impact of a few guards. Mainly Armory and Rally. Both are really good cards and don't need any combo or chaining to be super effective. Armory especially is insanely good early and and a round 1 or 2 armory can decide games. Siege Volley - Bump up the cost to 5 or decrease power by 1 (same with archer volley). Rally - bump up cost by 1. Armory, increase cost of card by 2 or remove gold generation.

Crow - Toll of Flesh/Silver and Pilfer I think are really really strong early game. And once somebody claims one, it really opens up so many more options to stack crow quickly without much downsides. Perhaps re-adjusting their gold cost may be wise to slow down the crow snowball early game, but still have them be important mid/late game

Rajhin - Honestly I feel like his agents need to be cheaper. Seems like since they're taunts, so expensive, and low HP...they don't really serve use quickly enough. Your enemy has to be really really unlucky or bad to let you get enough rajhin cards to make the negative prestige aspect useful before you're winning.

Red Eagle - bump the midnight raid combo power count to two instead of 3.

Orgnum King - Patron gold cost scale. Unfavored is 3, neutral is 4, favored is 5. Early game patron spam is way too powerful for its gold cost and causes matches to become stale with each side just spamming the patron over and over again.


I think that covers most of the current balance issues I see. Still keeps them competitive, keeps them in line with their theme; but dials them back a bit.

Final thing they need to do is either force a single card tavern switch out if nobody chooses a card (Player 1 turn, he doesn't pull something from the tavern. Player 2 doesn't pull either. When it is player 1 turn again one card in the tavern pile gets removed and replaced. If player 1 doesn't pull still, when its player 2 turn they get a card replaced. This keeps happening each turn until someone pulls, then it resets to the original 2 turn). Either that or neutral cards need their amount/presence drastically reduced. I think that's a major reason why people feel some of these specs are so insanely powerful. When one side builds a meta deck or a meta card gets pulled for them, they pull ahead so.freaken.fast. And the other side just doesn't have any way to counter it as all the cards they're pulling can be utterly useless. Not always, true. But so many games one side has bad RNG and doesn't even have a chance to counter.