33k heavy attack from DK in battlegrounds

SkaraMinoc

Wearing Heartland Conqueror (5/1/1), I took 33261 damage from a single heavy attack.



Then I switched to Aetherial Ascension (5/1/1) for the mitigation and took 46581 damage from 2 heavy attacks.



Both deaths had 2082 critical resistance. (6 impen, 1 heavy reinforced)



How is this possible?

HonestLoverr

An example of how some people do it after High Isle, you can have a look here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49d7qqiFa-k

Before everyone starts crying "NeRf OaKeNsOuL" again, this was possible before High Isle as well. And it still is. As you can see here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njUWeab-_jo

Tommy_The_Gun

Wait.

Ranged heavy attack DK is a ganker now ? Shouldn't that be um... a NB ? I always thought that it is a job for a NB. Oh well.

Anyway, I do wonder what is the min-max dmg with Snipe. I Doubt it can go any higher than 30K, even on a squishy target as even the skill's tooltip does not go as high. It seems we are running into some kind of paradox here... If ranged Ons-Shot Snipe builds were nerfed because those offered minimal risk compared to reward then I don't see how a Destro Staff Heavy Attack should be treated any differently lol. (It is not about class or anything, just about the concept of ranged one-shots & risk vs reward).

HonestLoverr

Nb's can do the same. After High Isle (with Oaken) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D9j6c1QnBY

Before High Isle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eyBiasVs7k

The difference is, magdk pulls it off with a single loaded heavy attack damage number, while on Nb the heavy attack procs sets to pull several high numbers that ground people with a single heavy (and maybe a skill or two to finish someone off, if needed).

Magdk is still superior though. Because ranged. If you wanna see more of this kind, the guy who made the videos is pretty much specialized making all kinds of overperforming builds.

HonestLoverr

And btw if someone tries to defend by stacking % mitigation, it won't help you either. I know because i tried it. Even the strongest defensive sets like Iron Blood won't safe you from those heavies lol.

olsborg

This game is becoming more and more stupid by every patch.

goldenarcher1

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Wait.

Ranged heavy attack DK is a ganker now ? Shouldn't that be um... a NB ? I always thought that it is a job for a NB. Oh well.

Anyway, I do wonder what is the min-max dmg with Snipe. I Doubt it can go any higher than 30K, even on a squishy target as even the skill's tooltip does not go as high. It seems we are running into some kind of paradox here... If ranged Ons-Shot Snipe builds were nerfed because those offered minimal risk compared to reward then I don't see how a Destro Staff Heavy Attack should be treated any differently lol. (It is not about class or anything, just about the concept of ranged one-shots & risk vs reward).

Snipe is still underwhelming even with Oaken ring.

My Khajiit NB is quite happy with Sargeant's Mail+Storm Master+Oaken ring however.

divnyi

HonestLoverr wrote: »

Even the strongest defensive sets like Iron Blood won't safe you from those heavies lol.

Because it has a chance to proc from attacks, no guarantee. Maybe https://eso-sets.com/set/sea-serpents-coil can do the trick.

Amerises

lol personally I think builds like this are fine. Part of the reason we have over heals and have ended up where we are now is because people cry about wanting a higher TTK. Well, pvp should be a dangerous place imo 🤷🏽‍♂️

EDIT: Also, I wouldn’t call 13:3 OP necessarily.

divnyi

Amerises wrote: »

lol personally I think builds like this are fine. Part of the reason we have over heals and have ended up where we are now is because people cry about wanting a higher TTK. Well, pvp should be a dangerous place imo 🤷🏽‍♂️

I don't like that kills are almost always burst or outnumbering, or combination of both. You either die in first 5 seconds or don't die at all.

This build above is a perfect example of why we need to lower damage over the board and lower healing even more than that. It will also simplify transition from PvE to PvP.

MCBIZZLE300

olsborg wrote: »

This game is becoming more and more stupid by every patch.

I'm so tired of broken stuff coming out to sell the chapter that i just give up on eso.

Didgerion

Maybe it is about time they do Battlegrounds no-cp/no-proc back again?

Give every class a fair chance to fight, not only to those who can exploit both systems.

xDeusEJRx

Didgerion wrote: »

Maybe it is about time they do Battlegrounds no-cp/no-proc back again?

Give every class a fair chance to fight, not only to those who can exploit both systems.

Yeah theres no way this is happening, no proc got way too many vocal minority people crying because "no build diversity" even though it doesn't exist even with procs(everyone just uses the same 10 sets in pvp anyway) and the outcry over getting majority TDM/majority objective.
There's no way a no proc battleground will ever feasibly work

ZiggyTStardust

Man after they nerfed toggle and (not all as it turns out) of the heavy attack sets I thought we would be safe from this build. Guess Oakensoul just repalced toggle. At least we were save for one patch

HonestLoverr

Wait. People wanted a counter to ball groups, right? Just go make one of the heavy attack builds. With our without oaken doesn't matter. Both work. And show them how it feels like getting farmed from random solo roamers this time. This even solves the healstack problem. No one gonna stack heals when hes lying dead on the ground lol.

No jokes aside this is the same as the problem is with ball groups in terms of kill potential. Wether its a single target oneshot by heavy attacking or an aoe oneshot by bombs. With stuff around being this overtuned everything else just feels underwhelming or pointless even. TTK for CP or No CP environments should be equal. Tune all the oneshot options down but bring the rest of the damage options up. And remove the damn healstacking and CC immunity.

Don't nerf overall damage again or we will get a true tank meta with everyone unkillable again. Nowadays there is still too many 1v1's ending in a draw we don't need more of that.

Tommy_The_Gun

Amerises wrote: »

lol personally I think builds like this are fine. Part of the reason we have over heals and have ended up where we are now is because people cry about wanting a higher TTK. Well, pvp should be a dangerous place imo 🤷🏽‍♂️

EDIT: Also, I wouldn’t call 13:3 OP necessarily.

Well, bow one-shot ganking was apparently not fine since it was nerfed to oblivion. It all boils down to risk vs reward. You are at range & can escape easily with minimal risk and maximum possible reward and you only expose yourself for a very short duration (less than heavy attack takes to charge).

^ This was the argument used when bow was nerfed. I don't see how destro staff ha on-shot ganking is any different from bow ganking we had in the past.

Btw. Tanky meta with strong healing is a direct consequence of previous high burst meta. You can not have fun if you are dead. So I can 100% guarantee you that unless this 40K dmg HA builds will get nerfed, a lot of players will build even more tanky to survive those one-shots. One meta creates another. It is an endless cycle.

HonestLoverr

People will only build tanky trying to survive those oneshots, if heavy attack builds get played more. Though especially with oakensoul ring its one of the most boring playstyles in the game for how braindead easy it is to play. All you can do is holding your left mouse button on a target.

Also those builds are around for a long time. Catching oneshot heavies is a rare occurence regardless of how effective it is. I assume its just way too boring for most.

Didgerion wrote: »

Maybe it is about time they do Battlegrounds no-cp/no-proc back again?

Give every class a fair chance to fight, not only to those who can exploit both systems.

No proc is the biggest PvP fail in this game. 10 sets or so function there out of what.. 500 available ones in the whole game? Without anyone even knowing the exact details on what is allowed and what isn't, while some of those that work are still proc sets.

Make battlegrounds no proc and they will be dead in no time. Just like Ravenwatch.

Idinuse

...

katorga

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Amerises wrote: »

lol personally I think builds like this are fine. Part of the reason we have over heals and have ended up where we are now is because people cry about wanting a higher TTK. Well, pvp should be a dangerous place imo 🤷🏽‍♂️

EDIT: Also, I wouldn’t call 13:3 OP necessarily.

. You can not have fun if you are dead. So I can 100% guarantee you that unless this 40K dmg HA builds will get nerfed....

This has been floating around for a few patches now, what makes you think they will nerf it?

Akinos

katorga wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Amerises wrote: »

lol personally I think builds like this are fine. Part of the reason we have over heals and have ended up where we are now is because people cry about wanting a higher TTK. Well, pvp should be a dangerous place imo 🤷🏽‍♂️

EDIT: Also, I wouldn’t call 13:3 OP necessarily.

. You can not have fun if you are dead. So I can 100% guarantee you that unless this 40K dmg HA builds will get nerfed....

This has been floating around for a few patches now, what makes you think they will nerf it?

They nerfed the doylemish melee heavy attack gank builds, why wouldn't they nerf the long range fire staff heavy attack 1 shot gank builds?
It's taking them a while yes but ZOS will probably do something about it.

xylena_lazarow

They also nerfed the stealth Overload instakills. They tried to nerf the inferno heavy instakills by nerfing several LA/HA sets, but failed pretty miserably, as it's still going on in PvP while a bunch of harmless niche PvE builds got deleted. They've historically taken the (rightful) stance that players need a fair chance to react to stealth gank attempts, so I figure they'll get around to fixing this one too, but they sure are dragging their feet on it.

Kartalin

HonestLoverr wrote: »

No proc is the biggest PvP fail in this game. 10 sets or so function there out of what.. 500 available ones in the whole game? Without anyone even knowing the exact details on what is allowed and what isn't, while some of those that work are still proc sets.

Make battlegrounds no proc and they will be dead in no time. Just like Ravenwatch.

It’s more like 105-110 sets. There’s a bit of a tank meta but it is somewhat manageable. Actually it’s more of a zerg meta, but organized groups have a fighting chance at least.

The only thing Ravenwatch lacks is a more balanced population and people willing to give it a chance. And maybe a counter to Pariah.

Evo444

HonestLoverr wrote: »

Before everyone starts crying "NeRf OaKeNsOuL" again, this was possible before High Isle as well. And it still is.

True, but the reason I was using it in bg's more instead of cyrodiil is pretty much the major heroism making you generate ult faster meaning bigger buffs on your heavy attacks more often. So even if you stopped light attacking someone to gen ult, you can instead hit someone and go back into stealth or invis pot and generate ult from heroism. Meaning more ult for more crucial moments which is what lead to this, but again, without the ult in a bg you have to rely on a teammate to do the last
45%-1%hp someone might have leftover.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Wearing Heartland Conqueror (5/1/1), I took 33261 damage from a single heavy attack.
Then I switched to Aetherial Ascension (5/1/1) for the mitigation and took 46581 damage from 2 heavy attacks.
Both deaths had 2082 critical resistance. (6 impen, 1 heavy reinforced)
How is this possible?

And more ults with corrosive means more heavy attacks that ignore armor, so you're Aetherial Ascension's armor was basically ignored, and if it was heavy pieces, you increased your hp, but increased magical dmg taken. That being said, you don't even have to run heavy armor really, just run Rallying Cry, it's practically Blessing of High Isle and Impregnable in 1 5pc, its crit resists should be = to ~20% after group members come in and because it's light armor it'll help you sustain even more burst heal spam on flag for you and your team to live and not allow the other teams dmg to mean anything at all, that is if there isn't a max dmg person like me to end permanent stalemates though and God forbid they hit the matriarch or engine guardian pet if it's there. And every gank/full dmg combo pretty much has crit involved someway. There is Serpent's Coil mythic to directly counter this now too. That 2nd death was without ult btw, thankfully my teammate's bow proc and executioner hit at relatively the same time as well

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Wait.
Ranged heavy attack DK is a ganker now ? Shouldn't that be um... a NB ? I always thought that it is a job for a NB. Oh well.

No for being NB, other classes were always better for max dmg setups. It's not like you use any NB abilities, just passives, in a max dmg combo. NB's max dmg setups usually use a universal combo that other classes can do more dmg with it, if you go NB it's usually just for easy reset to kill another person with cloak. This is for max dmg setups btw not NB in general. NB's still have stuff that one can find valuable for non-max dmg stuff like the fact their stam spammable is a stun/off balance or their dark cloak healing based of hp.

Didgerion wrote: »

Maybe it is about time they do Battlegrounds no-cp/no-proc back again?

You can definitely do it in Ravenwatch, was doing it some time earlier, just had to swap out a set

Hexquisite

I was wondering how these build were affecting you, as you are one of the hardest people to kill in BGs.
i imagine these builds are just wiping the floor in the low MMR Bgs

HonestLoverr

Kartalin wrote: »

HonestLoverr wrote: »

No proc is the biggest PvP fail in this game. 10 sets or so function there out of what.. 500 available ones in the whole game? Without anyone even knowing the exact details on what is allowed and what isn't, while some of those that work are still proc sets.

Make battlegrounds no proc and they will be dead in no time. Just like Ravenwatch.

It’s more like 105-110 sets. There’s a bit of a tank meta but it is somewhat manageable. Actually it’s more of a zerg meta, but organized groups have a fighting chance at least.

The only thing Ravenwatch lacks is a more balanced population and people willing to give it a chance. And maybe a counter to Pariah.

There is no officially updated list on the sets. Which is just weird given ZOS invented this campaign with a unique ruleset without explaining in detail what their pov is on what is allowed and what is not.

I gave it a chance several times already after the no-proc change. Me and my wife were running around for an hour there trying to find fight. We even tried spreading out and luring people into us by baiting with sieging homekeeps. We gave up after no one showed up and went back to GH.

Also people want to get straight into action when jumping into Cyrodiil and not be forced to certain primetimes, while even then fights are even less small keep fights on GH outside of primetime while only lasting an hour or two until people to go bed.

Ravenwatch is just not worth it anymore after the no proc change sadly.

WeylandLabs

Adding to this ....

This is what happens when you nerf the original stats into modifiers ...

You keep the current meta relevant instead of trying to create original other builds with stats to counter the meta.

Cant make everyone happy there will always be someone wanting it nerfed because they died of it. Its just good theorycrafting and that's the game in PvP.


Yet strangely enough nobody is talking how occult overload in the CP tree has been in some cases procing for 2x the damage at 25k, but we will keep the bias about Oakensoul right ?

ChunkyCat

This build is outta control.

I’m so jealous. 😬

xFocused

DK's are definitely the meta right now. It's awful in Cyrodiil. Just about everyone is a mag DK right now, lol

Nemeliom

Don't worry. This will get nerfed soon. It happens every expansion, they put a OP item, everyone buys the expansion and spend all their gold in game, hype hype for a while, then nerf it because they "care" for the sanity of pvp.

It's a commonly used strategy.

Holycannoli

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Wait.

Ranged heavy attack DK is a ganker now ? Shouldn't that be um... a NB ? I always thought that it is a job for a NB. Oh well.

Anyway, I do wonder what is the min-max dmg with Snipe. I Doubt it can go any higher than 30K, even on a squishy target as even the skill's tooltip does not go as high. It seems we are running into some kind of paradox here... If ranged Ons-Shot Snipe builds were nerfed because those offered minimal risk compared to reward then I don't see how a Destro Staff Heavy Attack should be treated any differently lol. (It is not about class or anything, just about the concept of ranged one-shots & risk vs reward).

It shouldn't be treated any differently.

But are people posting feedback about it in game?

Urzigurumash

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Maybe it is about time they do Battlegrounds no-cp/no-proc back again?

Give every class a fair chance to fight, not only to those who can exploit both systems.

Yeah theres no way this is happening, no proc got way too many vocal minority people crying because "no build diversity" even though it doesn't exist even with procs(everyone just uses the same 10 sets in pvp anyway) and the outcry over getting majority TDM/majority objective.
There's no way a no proc battleground will ever feasibly work

I disagree, could be wishful thinking but what I would like, two queues:

1. Group, All Modes, All Sets
2. Solo Only, DM Only, No Proc