My Sincerest Congrats to the Combat Dev Team

CE_Nex

DPS are wearing Alkosh in trials instead of tanks. You've done it, you've finally done it. My hat off to you.

Jaimeh

There was a brief period around elsweyr iirc that stam DDs were wearing alkosh. Well not out of their free will, somebody just bit the bullet and did it, but still it happened

Troodon80

I am happy that they have started leaning more toward support sets to the DD side. It's just a shame this one meant removing it from one role in which it had been a staple for years rather than adding something new to take its place. Hopefully they add more DD support sets in the future. Been saying it for some time that I'd personally really like to go back to the (pre-)Morrowind days where you'd have DDs working out their group supports, adding a certain group synergy to any raid you were doing: Who's on Night Mother? I'll do Morag Tong. Anyone got Sunderflame?

drsalvation

Considering how badly tanks have been getting the shaft... just get rid of all roles as we know them:
Make DD's the default, but have Tank DD's and Healing DD's.

One-shot mechanics ruin any form of min/maxing tank builds, so why not just have a set of DDs who deal the damage and take the enemy attention, and have other DDs who also heal groups and stop complicating things?

I've been tanking ever since the game released on consoles, it feels wrong if I'm not tanking, but since Armory, I switched to DPS, again, it feels wrong that I'm not tanking anymore, but the game won't allow me to go back to tanking considering every bit is more geared towards DPS, considering how skills that should've been for tanks are now reworked for DD's instead.

At least now we know DDs have been using more support-based gear, why not just go full fledge on it? It would also make it easier for me to stop having any sort of hope for tanks to be fun and effective outside of being towel holders and meat shields for DDs lol.

HonestLoverr

For PvE I play tank with 0 group buff sets. This term about being selfish makes no sense since it up came up. When I sacrifice myself for the group to get everyone to attack me so you can stay behind and play rambo, then I am not selfish I am a teamplayer to begin with.

No matter what the devs change, or what the people want me to wear in trials. I keep playing how I want. I keep wearing what I want. You wanna have higher dps? Then buff it yourself. You wanna have more HP? Then wear ebon yourself. I am already playing the punching bag for the people. I will not sacrifice my whole build, playstyle and fun to what some sweaty dpsers "need" for their dps meter ego race.

No one will ever get me to wear what THEY want. Ever. Period. If you want me to do so, come make me.

drsalvation

HonestLoverr wrote: »

For PvE I play tank with 0 group buff sets. This term about being selfish makes no sense since it up came up. When I sacrifice myself for the group to get everyone to attack me so you can stay behind and play rambo, then I am not selfish I am a teamplayer to begin with.

No matter what the devs change, or what the people want me to wear in trials. I keep playing how I want. I keep wearing what I want. You wanna have higher dps? Then buff it yourself. You wanna have more HP? Then wear ebon yourself. I am already playing the punching bag for the people. I will not sacrifice my whole build, playstyle and fun to what some sweaty dpsers "need" for their dps meter ego race.

No one will ever get me to wear what THEY want. Ever. Period. If you want me to do so, come make me.

Unfortunately the devs don't seem to agree with that statement, the cool tank sets keep getting nerfed or reworked for DPS.
Resilient yokeda and harbinger would make a fun tank blocking build... now they barely do anything useful (well, resilient is nice for self-healing when surrounded by mobs).

spartaxoxo

HonestLoverr wrote: »

For PvE I play tank with 0 group buff sets. This term about being selfish makes no sense since it up came up.

It makes perfect sense. It is the inherent role of the tank to take damage from others. So they don't get automatic credit for being a team player for doing the bare minimum required of their role. The tanks that go above and beyond the bare minimum make groups far better, even though they've added a new challenge to their own gameplay since it's harder to use the group sets than not use them. For their willingness to do things that greatly enhance the group at the cost of making their own gameplay more challenging, these players are acknowledged as being non-selfish.

Because instead of "I don't want to wear this. It doesn't benefit me!" it is "The group will benefit from X, so I will do it."

There's nothing wrong with being selfish in gameplay when it comes to video games. We all play games to relax and unwind. So if someone really hates doing something in the game, they should simply not do it. And continue to make choices that ensure they have fun. But they also shouldn't get mad if people notice that they are prioritizing what is best for themselves instead of what is best for the group in group activities. OFC people prefer to run with the person who makes the team the best it can be, especially if that person is matching their own attitude towards the group and they themselves are adding challenges to their gameplay for the benefit of the group. Why wouldn't they want that? People don't get to play selfishly and also get thought as being unselfish. In order to be viewed as someone who is a team player, they have to actually do what's best for the group to the best of their personal abilities.

For DPS, that's practicing combat rotations and not waiting around for someone else to do the rezzing.
For healers and tanks, it's wearing sets that enhance the group's capabilities.

Troodon80

I wasn't going to comment on that reply, but since @spartaxoxo already has... I wanted to add that playing "selfishly" isn't necessarily bad. There's a time and a place. Some of the world's first trifecta clears that Hodor did back in the day had players using sets like pre-nerfed Phoenix. Other people going for trifecta clears have used Plague Doctor on tanks or eeven healers. Just as an example. Some of the first vAS clears back in the day had healers using heavy armour Shalks Exoskeleton while others used Plague Doctor, effectively becoming another tank.

HonestLoverr wrote: »

For PvE I play tank with 0 group buff sets.

If it helps to achieve the shared goal of the group, go for it. If you're aiming for a no death or a trifecta, for example, and you think Brands of the Imperium might help you or the group stay alive, by all means use it. If you think you have trouble staying alive on some other boss then feel free to use Plague Doctor or Green Pact. If you just want something fun and quirky and you're not aiming for anything in particular, use whatever you want. No one is stopping you and that's the option available to you as a player to play how you want.

HonestLoverr wrote: »

No one will ever get me to wear what THEY want. Ever. Period. If you want me to do so, come make me.

But saying things like "if you want me to wear this set then you're going to have to come over here and make me" removes any credibility about being a team player. One doesn't become a team player simply by virtue of the role. You may as well be saying you cannot be bothered to contribute more than the absolute bare minimum which is expected of you. It doesn't leave a glowing first impression.

HonestLoverr

I don't play this game to leave a glowing first impression. I'm here to have fun. And I'm not responsible for the numbers all the sweaties wanna see. This sort of players tend to be either toxic and elitist anyways. I don't see this game as a job or race or anything. I don't want to be "as useful to the group as possible". But to each their own.

PvE tanking is fun for me because I like having full control over the mobs, the pace, and being the shield for everyone. But most importantly, its my character. My freetime. And I play tank my way. As I always do since I first played a tank back then in oldschool Everquest days. If anything I'm doing is somehow wrong or not enough because people want their tank to be their personal buffbot on top, then they are free to join any of the countless other groups out there containing one. Simple as that.

Kusto

HonestLoverr wrote: »

For PvE I play tank with 0 group buff sets. This term about being selfish makes no sense since it up came up. When I sacrifice myself for the group to get everyone to attack me so you can stay behind and play rambo, then I am not selfish I am a teamplayer to begin with.

No matter what the devs change, or what the people want me to wear in trials. I keep playing how I want. I keep wearing what I want. You wanna have higher dps? Then buff it yourself. You wanna have more HP? Then wear ebon yourself. I am already playing the punching bag for the people. I will not sacrifice my whole build, playstyle and fun to what some sweaty dpsers "need" for their dps meter ego race.

No one will ever get me to wear what THEY want. Ever. Period. If you want me to do so, come make me.

It's ok to wear what you want in pug dungeons or other casual encounters, no one cares. But don't expect to get in vet trials with this attitude.

drsalvation

spartaxoxo wrote: »

HonestLoverr wrote: »

For PvE I play tank with 0 group buff sets. This term about being selfish makes no sense since it up came up.

It makes perfect sense. It is the inherent role of the tank to take damage from others. So they don't get automatic credit for being a team player for doing the bare minimum required of their role. The tanks that go above and beyond the bare minimum make groups far better, even though they've added a new challenge to their own gameplay since it's harder to use the group sets than not use them. For their willingness to do things that greatly enhance the group at the cost of making their own gameplay more challenging, these players are acknowledged as being non-selfish.

Because instead of "I don't want to wear this. It doesn't benefit me!" it is "The group will benefit from X, so I will do it."

There's nothing wrong with being selfish in gameplay when it comes to video games. We all play games to relax and unwind. So if someone really hates doing something in the game, they should simply not do it. And continue to make choices that ensure they have fun. But they also shouldn't get mad if people notice that they are prioritizing what is best for themselves instead of what is best for the group in group activities. OFC people prefer to run with the person who makes the team the best it can be, especially if that person is matching their own attitude towards the group and they themselves are adding challenges to their gameplay for the benefit of the group. Why wouldn't they want that? People don't get to play selfishly and also get thought as being unselfish. In order to be viewed as someone who is a team player, they have to actually do what's best for the group to the best of their personal abilities.

For DPS, that's practicing combat rotations and not waiting around for someone else to do the rezzing.
For healers and tanks, it's wearing sets that enhance the group's capabilities.

But that last bit is exactly why people don't like support roles: A DPS who needs to remember combat rotations: It's in a sense, a selfish thing that they can actually bring outside of dungeons and excel at in other aspects of the game, especially solo arenas (because it panders to DPS).
Imagine any support role with non-selfish sets that buff up the DPS attempting solo arenas, or just outright do overland content... Beating the mobs with buffs, heals, and reflected dmg after 20 minutes.
It's dumb and makes no sense.

And most DPS are self-sustaining too, with some mitigation and self-heals, it makes the other two roles outright deprecated.

Redguards_Revenge

I said this years ago. Why is this DPSO?

spartaxoxo

drsalvation wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

HonestLoverr wrote: »

For PvE I play tank with 0 group buff sets. This term about being selfish makes no sense since it up came up.

It makes perfect sense. It is the inherent role of the tank to take damage from others. So they don't get automatic credit for being a team player for doing the bare minimum required of their role. The tanks that go above and beyond the bare minimum make groups far better, even though they've added a new challenge to their own gameplay since it's harder to use the group sets than not use them. For their willingness to do things that greatly enhance the group at the cost of making their own gameplay more challenging, these players are acknowledged as being non-selfish.

Because instead of "I don't want to wear this. It doesn't benefit me!" it is "The group will benefit from X, so I will do it."

There's nothing wrong with being selfish in gameplay when it comes to video games. We all play games to relax and unwind. So if someone really hates doing something in the game, they should simply not do it. And continue to make choices that ensure they have fun. But they also shouldn't get mad if people notice that they are prioritizing what is best for themselves instead of what is best for the group in group activities. OFC people prefer to run with the person who makes the team the best it can be, especially if that person is matching their own attitude towards the group and they themselves are adding challenges to their gameplay for the benefit of the group. Why wouldn't they want that? People don't get to play selfishly and also get thought as being unselfish. In order to be viewed as someone who is a team player, they have to actually do what's best for the group to the best of their personal abilities.

For DPS, that's practicing combat rotations and not waiting around for someone else to do the rezzing.
For healers and tanks, it's wearing sets that enhance the group's capabilities.

But that last bit is exactly why people don't like support roles: A DPS who needs to remember combat rotations: It's in a sense, a selfish thing that they can actually bring outside of dungeons and excel at in other aspects of the game, especially solo arenas (because it panders to DPS).
Imagine any support role with non-selfish sets that buff up the DPS attempting solo arenas, or just outright do overland content... Beating the mobs with buffs, heals, and reflected dmg after 20 minutes.
It's dumb and makes no sense.

And most DPS are self-sustaining too, with some mitigation and self-heals, it makes the other two roles outright deprecated.

Memorizing combat rotations and practicing on a dummy is very time consuming, and I don't imagine most who do it actually enjoy doing it. But they want to be the best DPS they can be, and so that comes with the territory.

I think every role has it's chores for being the best you can be.