Arctic Blast can be solved. But this is not it.

Brrrofski

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

I mean, a stun tied to a heal is just dumb.

Just make Arctic Wind two different heals and add a useful stun to one of the other warden skills.

Does anyone use the non tank morph of the portal skill? Just make that a stun of some sort.

we don't need another healing skill that scales off wep/spell damage. we have an entire line already that needs to be improved.

arctic blast should be repurposed either purely for damage or for damage and stunning.

Yeh, fine, that works for me too.

Just don't have a skill that tries to heal and stun. It's stupid.

ESO_Nightingale

Brrrofski wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

I mean, a stun tied to a heal is just dumb.

Just make Arctic Wind two different heals and add a useful stun to one of the other warden skills.

Does anyone use the non tank morph of the portal skill? Just make that a stun of some sort.

we don't need another healing skill that scales off wep/spell damage. we have an entire line already that needs to be improved.

arctic blast should be repurposed either purely for damage or for damage and stunning.

Yeh, fine, that works for me too.

Just don't have a skill that tries to heal and stun. It's stupid.

too many people suggest different scaling for arctic and it takes 2 seconds to realise that that is really poor design.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

So with the "Sunsetting of the Class Rep Program" I'm really hoping that this along with a lot of our other feedback with be more direct or better yet, Zos will be more direct with us. It's very imperative that this be an open dialogue between Developer and Consumer, or at least Consumer and Community Managers.

Warden is just really missing pieces to make it where it needs to be to really be effective, part of that is an on demand stun and we've been getting tripped up over Arctic Blast for 5 years, this fix would be a 2 birds with one stone situation, we can move on to fix those other pieces.

I still just don't understand why they refuse to give us fundamental pvp tools other classes have. They're so incessant on delayed reactionary stuns that people hate and no-one wants.

MacRibs

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I still just don't understand why they refuse to give us fundamental pvp tools other classes have. They're so incessant on delayed reactionary stuns that people hate and no-one wants.

Not only that but almost all tools other classes have are better then the wardens, every warden skill is and feels like a worse version of other classes skills.
Apart from shalks I challenge anyone to find a skill in the warden kit that you can truly look at it and say its amongst the most competitive skills in the game in any skill line, healing, damage or anything else.

ESO_Nightingale

MacRibs wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I still just don't understand why they refuse to give us fundamental pvp tools other classes have. They're so incessant on delayed reactionary stuns that people hate and no-one wants.

Not only that but almost all tools other classes have are better then the wardens, every warden skill is and feels like a worse version of other classes skills.
Apart from shalks I challenge anyone to find a skill in the warden kit that you can truly look at it and say its amongst the most competitive skills in the game in any skill line, healing, damage or anything else.

cutting dive is for damage but that's because it's design is awful. disgustingly huge damage but only randomly in off bal windows which it procs itself but only at range which is beyond awful for any serious pvp situation..

MacRibs

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

cutting dive is for damage but that's because it's design is awful. disgustingly huge damage but only randomly in off bal windows which it procs itself but only at range which is beyond awful for any serious pvp situation..

Cutting dive looks very good on paper buts is/feels terrible to use, its clunky, slow and very hard to land in pvp and its supposed to be the the wardens class spammable.
Compare it to other classes or weapon skill lines spammables and you have better, more reliable options.

ESO_Nightingale

MacRibs wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

cutting dive is for damage but that's because it's design is awful. disgustingly huge damage but only randomly in off bal windows which it procs itself but only at range which is beyond awful for any serious pvp situation..

Cutting dive looks very good on paper buts is/feels terrible to use, its clunky, slow and very hard to land in pvp and its supposed to be the the wardens class spammable.
Compare it to other classes or weapon skill lines spammables and you have better, more reliable options.

It's only amazing in pve which is what i was trying to say. But it still feels awful to use due to all of it's issues.

Freelancer_ESO

Might your version of Arctic Blast be stepping on toes of Winter's Revenge a bit in some situations with both having a fair portion of their kit being dealing damage at a location for 10s?

Mr_Stach

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Might your version of Arctic Blast be stepping on toes of Winter's Revenge a bit in some situations with both having a fair portion of their kit being dealing damage at a location for 10s?

Does Boundless Storm step on the toes of Lightning Flood?

It's kind of the same situation, the main part of the AoE damage would as it is right now, surrounding the caster, where Winter's Revenge is a Ground Targeted AoE.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Might your version of Arctic Blast be stepping on toes of Winter's Revenge a bit in some situations with both having a fair portion of their kit being dealing damage at a location for 10s?

Does Boundless Storm step on the toes of Lightning Flood?

It's kind of the same situation, the main part of the AoE damage would as it is right now, surrounding the caster, where Winter's Revenge is a Ground Targeted AoE.

also, does solar barrage step on the toes of ritual of retribution or blazing spear? nope! also, winter's revenge lasts for 12 seconds.

Freelancer_ESO

Sorry about the screw up with 10s vs 12s.

As for the others they do step on the toes of each other to a degree but, not quite as far as when you have two ice abilities that are hitting for similar damage for a similar duration with limited other effects.

Pretend for a minute that the Destruction Staff got rid of Weakness to Elements and instead had Elemental Ring and Pulsar as separate skills would you consider that something that made the Destruction Staff more interesting?

The Winter's Embrace leveling experience is already on the dull side (Opening up with a defensive buff is just plain boring as your initial stats are so high that defenses aren't really something that needs helped early on) and having back to back similar abilities would only make it duller.

ESO_Nightingale

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Sorry about the screw up with 10s vs 12s.

As for the others they do step on the toes of each other to a degree but, not quite as far as when you have two ice abilities that are hitting for similar damage for a similar duration with limited other effects.

Pretend for a minute that the Destruction Staff got rid of Weakness to Elements and instead had Elemental Ring and Pulsar as separate skills would you consider that something that made the Destruction Staff more interesting?

The Winter's Embrace leveling experience is already on the dull side (Opening up with a defensive buff is just plain boring as your initial stats are so high that defenses aren't really something that needs helped early on) and having back to back similar abilities would only make it duller.

It's a non-issue. It already exists like that in the first place.

Mr_Stach

At the end of the day there's not a single person that sees a Warden, either Stam or Mag and Panics because they don't have the tools to deal with them, the only class that struggles against Wardens are other Wardens.

The simple act of giving an On Demand Stun won't suddenly flip as switch and they'll be shot up to Mega Meta S Tier, they still have other gaps, but I believe the lack of a stun is the most egregious.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

At the end of the day there's not a single person that sees a Warden, either Stam or Mag and Panics because they don't have the tools to deal with them, the only class that struggles against Wardens are other Wardens.

The simple act of giving an On Demand Stun won't suddenly flip as switch and they'll be shot up to Mega Meta S Tier, they still have other gaps, but I believe the lack of a stun is the most egregious.

Yeah i don't think anyone is asking to be s tier. It's just not fun to have to work so much harder than other classes in order to do something basic that they don't have to put any effort into. It's not fun design and it makes no sense.

MindOfTheSwarm

100% agree on this. Arctic Blast stun is ridiculous to proc. Another option, would it for to act like a Frost Nova. A burst stun in an AoE that stuns on hit. It could even do bonus damage vs Chilled Targets to give it synergy with Warden Passives. If that’s too OP, maybe the stun could only occur on Chilled targets which would be most of the time on a Warden anyway.

Polar Wind could keep its Damage over Time function but increased duration. It could even have a snare to help bruisers and tanks to stick to targets easier.

Alternatively, why not just have Frost Reach stun Chilled targets? I’m surprised that some kind of Frozen status hasn’t been added. It would negate this whole issue and wouldn’t be too oppressive in PvP with CC immunity and if Chilled was a prerequisite.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

100% agree on this. Arctic Blast stun is ridiculous to proc. Another option, would it for to act like a Frost Nova. A burst stun in an AoE that stuns on hit. It could even do bonus damage vs Chilled Targets to give it synergy with Warden Passives. If that’s too OP, maybe the stun could only occur on Chilled targets which would be most of the time on a Warden anyway.

Polar Wind could keep its Damage over Time function but increased duration. It could even have a snare to help bruisers and tanks to stick to targets easier.

Alternatively, why not just have Frost Reach stun Chilled targets? I’m surprised that some kind of Frozen status hasn’t been added. It would negate this whole issue and wouldn’t be too oppressive in PvP with CC immunity and if Chilled was a prerequisite.

Frost reach shouldn't have a stun on it for pve reasons

MindOfTheSwarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

100% agree on this. Arctic Blast stun is ridiculous to proc. Another option, would it for to act like a Frost Nova. A burst stun in an AoE that stuns on hit. It could even do bonus damage vs Chilled Targets to give it synergy with Warden Passives. If that’s too OP, maybe the stun could only occur on Chilled targets which would be most of the time on a Warden anyway.

Polar Wind could keep its Damage over Time function but increased duration. It could even have a snare to help bruisers and tanks to stick to targets easier.

Alternatively, why not just have Frost Reach stun Chilled targets? I’m surprised that some kind of Frozen status hasn’t been added. It would negate this whole issue and wouldn’t be too oppressive in PvP with CC immunity and if Chilled was a prerequisite.

Frost reach shouldn't have a stun on it for pve reasons

I hadn’t considered that. Fair point. But how about a Frozen status effect.

Like a 2% chance to Freeze Chilled targets when damaging them with Frost Damage. I suppose it wouldn’t be on demand and it would take away a bit of control. But thematically it would work and I would argue not too op. Say a 2 second stun.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

100% agree on this. Arctic Blast stun is ridiculous to proc. Another option, would it for to act like a Frost Nova. A burst stun in an AoE that stuns on hit. It could even do bonus damage vs Chilled Targets to give it synergy with Warden Passives. If that’s too OP, maybe the stun could only occur on Chilled targets which would be most of the time on a Warden anyway.

Polar Wind could keep its Damage over Time function but increased duration. It could even have a snare to help bruisers and tanks to stick to targets easier.

Alternatively, why not just have Frost Reach stun Chilled targets? I’m surprised that some kind of Frozen status hasn’t been added. It would negate this whole issue and wouldn’t be too oppressive in PvP with CC immunity and if Chilled was a prerequisite.

Frost reach shouldn't have a stun on it for pve reasons

I hadn’t considered that. Fair point. But how about a Frozen status effect.

Like a 2% chance to Freeze Chilled targets when damaging them with Frost Damage. I suppose it wouldn’t be on demand and it would take away a bit of control. But thematically it would work and I would argue not too op. Say a 2 second stun.

that would be really annoying in pve. it's best to not make it a random stun. that's our current issue. we just need a legit on-demand stun from like arctic blast or something else in the warden's toolkit that isn't annoying to use.

ESO_Nightingale

Okay, so it seems like, if we follow the august 23rd release date for q3 in previous years, we should get some announcement for q3 in 2 weeks time. i really hope they've listened and made some changes. but at this point, no-one should get their hopes up.

MindOfTheSwarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Okay, so it seems like, if we follow the august 23rd release date for q3 in previous years, we should get some announcement for q3 in 2 weeks time. i really hope they've listened and made some changes. but at this point, no-one should get their hopes up.

Fingers crossed.

MindOfTheSwarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

At the end of the day there's not a single person that sees a Warden, either Stam or Mag and Panics because they don't have the tools to deal with them, the only class that struggles against Wardens are other Wardens.

The simple act of giving an On Demand Stun won't suddenly flip as switch and they'll be shot up to Mega Meta S Tier, they still have other gaps, but I believe the lack of a stun is the most egregious.

Yeah i don't think anyone is asking to be s tier. It's just not fun to have to work so much harder than other classes in order to do something basic that they don't have to put any effort into. It's not fun design and it makes no sense.

It’s quite insane really when you think about it. Especially when a skill like Streak exists that acts as a gap closer/ escape tool and stun all in one. And it’s an AoE stun to boot.

MindOfTheSwarm

Speaking of which, Frozen Gate and morphs are something else which need looking at.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Speaking of which, Frozen Gate and morphs are something else which need looking at.

I thought they would have looked at it. But they didn't at all

Wolfchild07

The problem with arctic blast for me is that there's no real "blast" in it. I think every enemy hit by it should blast in a small aoe around them also, hitting other enemies they're close to. That way, the more enemies you have around you, the more damage you do with it.

The way I think the morphs could be is:

Polar Wind: same as now, but 12 second duration to match gripping shards/winter's revenge. Good for tanks/healers.

Arctic Blast: Every enemy hit blasts other nearby enemies, but same duration as current. Good for damage dealers.

MindOfTheSwarm

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

The problem with arctic blast for me is that there's no real "blast" in it. I think every enemy hit by it should blast in a small aoe around them also, hitting other enemies they're close to. That way, the more enemies you have around you, the more damage you do with it.

The way I think the morphs could be is:

Polar Wind: same as now, but 12 second duration to match gripping shards/winter's revenge. Good for tanks/healers.

Arctic Blast: Every enemy hit blasts other nearby enemies, but same duration as current. Good for damage dealers.

This would be over powered. Imagine Cyrodiil vs a ball group with all 20 enemies releasing their own self damaging and group damaging DoT.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

The problem with arctic blast for me is that there's no real "blast" in it. I think every enemy hit by it should blast in a small aoe around them also, hitting other enemies they're close to. That way, the more enemies you have around you, the more damage you do with it.

The way I think the morphs could be is:

Polar Wind: same as now, but 12 second duration to match gripping shards/winter's revenge. Good for tanks/healers.

Arctic Blast: Every enemy hit blasts other nearby enemies, but same duration as current. Good for damage dealers.

This would be over powered. Imagine Cyrodiil vs a ball group with all 20 enemies releasing their own self damaging and group damaging DoT.

Also I'd just use polar because it's more consistent for single target and AoE where as arctic would only be good for aoe encounters.

ESO_Nightingale

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

The problem with arctic blast for me is that there's no real "blast" in it. I think every enemy hit by it should blast in a small aoe around them also, hitting other enemies they're close to. That way, the more enemies you have around you, the more damage you do with it.

The way I think the morphs could be is:

Polar Wind: same as now, but 12 second duration to match gripping shards/winter's revenge. Good for tanks/healers.

Arctic Blast: Every enemy hit blasts other nearby enemies, but same duration as current. Good for damage dealers.

It wouldn't make it better in single target though. Because polar would deal consistent damage over 12 seconds, making it very solid. Meanwhile arctic would be absurdly expensive and harder to upkeep for no gain in single target and only in AoE. It wouldn't be bad i guess, but polar is generally more usable in more situations.