what are your thoughts on healing in pvp?

TheHeroCat

Im trying to get data!

Casul

Cross healing is too strong

As a healer, HoTs should not be able to stack more then once. If you want to heal multiple targets it should be with a burst heal like breathe of life or twilight matriarch. IMO.

NordSwordnBoard

its overtuned.

I have no problem having to focus the other groups healer in order to get to the rest of them. It's that during that focus, anybody not focusing the healer is still up against a target with a bunch of HoTs, and good healers will LoS with their group. Its mainly the smart/auto target heals, and I hate to say it (sorry my healer pals) healers should have to work harder for the results they get now than they currently do. On the other hand, I don't want to hurt solo healers via the no healing outside your group experiment again.

More heals->less casualties->bigger player stacks. Having said that, lol, maybe decrease healing ranges via battlespirit?

AdamLAD

Cross healing is too strong

Heals over time should NOT stack. And cross healing needs to be significantly reduced. Like 25%. Its absolutely mental how much people are getting healed in PvP. Blocking is also a massive issue. But one thing at a time.

ResidentContrarian

Cross healing is too strong

HoTs too strong. Last I checked healing ward doesn't stack, so why exactly should vigor and rapid regen/radiating stack for apparently infinity?

Nemeliom

Cross healing is too strong

HoT are ridiculous. Just have a group of 4-5 ppl spaming the resto skill and you are done.
Horrible.

divnyi

its overtuned.

Cross heals are cancer. No arguing that. But.

My opinion - healing overall is overtuned. Two bruisers can fight each other infinitely. Healing should not fully outheal damage.

Solution: reduce healing at battle spirit and slightly reduce damage done at battle spirit.

Zekka

Cross healing is too strong

Cross healing in general (and not just Radiating Regen even though it's the biggest offender) is way too strong and should receive an additional penalty through Battle Spirit.
Also this:

divnyi wrote: »

Cross heals are cancer. No arguing that. But.

My opinion - healing overall is overtuned. Two bruisers can fight each other infinitely. Healing should not fully outheal damage.

Solution: reduce healing at battle spirit and slightly reduce damage done at battle spirit.

The reduce damage is also important but something "good" players addicted to their one tap combos don't want to hear, ultimately hp bars shouldn't play yo-yo like they're currently doing. Going from near dead to 100% should be harder and you shouldn't be able to melt people like magdks/bowsorcs can or unload 30k worth of damage from stealth like caluurion stamblades can.

Thecompton73

Cross healing is too strong

Cross healing is definetly to powerful. As for self healing it really depends on the class. Those with good Class Hots that can stack with Regen/Vigor are OP but classes like stamNb with invisibility cloak or Magsorc are generally squishy and don't have class based hots, so even if they slot their burst heal one stun and they're done.

DrNukenstein

its overtuned.

The game needs strong healing. If healing was weak it would be all stat checks.

But as some one loaded up on damage I shouldn't be able to heal my entire health pool with one or 2 button pushes. Tanks shouldn't be able to do that either. You also shouldn't be able to stack countless instances of radiating regen.

I think they'd hit the sweet spot if:
-Made healing scale with primary stat and %buffs only. Double the ratio since it wouldn't count WD/SD any more.
-Limit radiating regen stacks to yourself+one other player's
-Maybe give minor or major buffs to more single target heals. I think that'd add a lot of depth to choosing which heals to slot.

Just make it something you have to build for to be amazing at; instead of something you just have to put the skills on the bar for it to be amazing at, while building for it makes you and everyone around you near unkillable.

Ragnaroek93

its overtuned.

Healing in this game is out of control, especially cross healing but some classes also have too much self healing.

MEBengalsFan2001

Cross healing is too strong

I think roles should matter. I have a few thoughts on how to fix this so roles matter.

1) Hard Caps based on roles. Tanks and Healers get a hard cap on there damage values. Healers and DPS get hard caps on their resistance values. Tanks and DPS get a reduction in healing out.

2) Similar to #1 but instead of hard caps it is a reduction in values. For tanks and healers they get 50% less damage, healers and DPS get 50% less resistance; and Tanks and DPS get 50% less for healing out.

Either way you slice it the role selection we make would impact our character in PVP and roles would than have some value in PVP making Tanks, Healer and PVP in groups more useful.

The other thing is now ball groups cross healing would be gimp because all their tank and dps healing is now gimp making heals from healers a top priority in groups.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Healing and damage should not scale from the same stats imo. This is why healing feels overtuned and crosshealing in groups too.

DD's focus only on dmg but their heals still do almost as much as a regular healer. If the stats were separated it would have a much greater impact whilst still giving a small reward for playing with friends.

IMO make healing scale from stats like Max Mag or Max Stam and Dmg scale with 'Weapon or Spell Damage'. Just like proc sets currently do.

Amottica

Its balanced.

I wonder how much of this "feedback" comes from fights between equally skilled and equipped groups vs outsized or otherwise unbalanced groups.

HonestLoverr

its overtuned.

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

I think roles should matter. I have a few thoughts on how to fix this so roles matter.

1) Hard Caps based on roles. Tanks and Healers get a hard cap on there damage values. Healers and DPS get hard caps on their resistance values. Tanks and DPS get a reduction in healing out.

2) Similar to #1 but instead of hard caps it is a reduction in values. For tanks and healers they get 50% less damage, healers and DPS get 50% less resistance; and Tanks and DPS get 50% less for healing out.

Either way you slice it the role selection we make would impact our character in PVP and roles would than have some value in PVP making Tanks, Healer and PVP in groups more useful.

The other thing is now ball groups cross healing would be gimp because all their tank and dps healing is now gimp making heals from healers a top priority in groups.

I already replied to this on a different thread, but I think your idea truely deserves full dev attention. Making roles mean something by taking your base idea as foundation is what their combat designers should be working with.

Dem_kitkats1

its overtuned.

Healing in general is overtuned. Yes, the ability to stack infinite h.o.ts is the biggest culprit, but it's further exacerbated by by very strong self healing and various sources of damage mitigation. The fact that full damage/glass cannon builds have the ability to 1vx or 2vx 10+ players, simply from having free strong healing is a problem. I agree with others on here that healing should be separated from SD/WD. Having a prevalent presence of unkillable groups and players is how the population dies.

Amottica wrote: »

I wonder how much of this "feedback" comes from fights between equally skilled and equipped groups vs outsized or otherwise unbalanced groups.

From my experience fights from equal groups have a ridiculous TTK or end in stalemate because they outheal and out mitigate eachother. It becomes a game of who can time their ulti dumps the best or be consistent through the lagfest because thats all you can viably do. That's not very engaging combat IMO.

Groups should have to be conscious of their composition and their positions. They should have choose between having more damage at the sacrifice of their healing, or vice versa. That's how fights become more diverse, and more tactical.

Amottica

Its balanced.

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

I think roles should matter. I have a few thoughts on how to fix this so roles matter.

1) Hard Caps based on roles. Tanks and Healers get a hard cap on there damage values. Healers and DPS get hard caps on their resistance values. Tanks and DPS get a reduction in healing out.

2) Similar to #1 but instead of hard caps it is a reduction in values. For tanks and healers they get 50% less damage, healers and DPS get 50% less resistance; and Tanks and DPS get 50% less for healing out.

Either way you slice it the role selection we make would impact our character in PVP and roles would than have some value in PVP making Tanks, Healer and PVP in groups more useful.

The other thing is now ball groups cross healing would be gimp because all their tank and dps healing is now gimp making heals from healers a top priority in groups.

I have never seen an MMORPG, at least one that is worthy, cap how much damage or healing, a player could do.

I will start off that this suggestion would require a complete overhaul of much of the content in ESO and as such is truly unworkable considering the change is for PvP which is a secondary aspect of ESO.

That does not even get into that there is not a system in the game that defines a character as a healer, DD, or tank. It does not exist so that is another system that would need to be built and will not exist anytime in the near future.

This is just not that type of game.

Amottica

Its balanced.

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

Healing in general is overtuned. Yes, the ability to stack infinite h.o.ts is the biggest culprit, but it's further exacerbated by by very strong self healing and various sources of damage mitigation. The fact that full damage/glass cannon builds have the ability to 1vx or 2vx 10+ players, simply from having free strong healing is a problem. I agree with others on here that healing should be separated from SD/WD. Having a prevalent presence of unkillable groups and players is how the population dies.

Amottica wrote: »

I wonder how much of this "feedback" comes from fights between equally skilled and equipped groups vs outsized or otherwise unbalanced groups.

From my experience fights from equal groups have a ridiculous TTK or end in stalemate because they outheal and out mitigate eachother. It becomes a game of who can time their ulti dumps the best or be consistent through the lagfest because thats all you can viably do. That's not very engaging combat IMO.

Groups should have to be conscious of their composition and their positions. They should have choose between having more damage at the sacrifice of their healing, or vice versa. That's how fights become more diverse, and more tactical.

This sounds more like an epic fight. I have yet to have one that does not end and it requires players to coordinate and play well to win such a fight. It is great when the fight is more than just pressing buttons.

Also, I run with a group that is conscious of their composition. We choose a good balance between damaging dealing and healing. A well-run group with solid leadership will do this every time because we choose to build ourselves with the goal of winning.

That is what PvP is all about.

Flangdoodle

Self healing is too weak

I keep running into situations where self healing doesn't work. I keep trying to use various forms of healing, and they *appear* to work - e.g. the animation fires off and/or it registers that I've either used an ability or potion etc. (e.g. my resource bar drops or my potion count drops by one and goes on cooldown), but my health bar doesn't budge, and when I inevitably die because I can't heal, nothing on the recaps shows anything that can explain why I couldn't heal. No dots, no poisons, no debuffs, nada. I've even tried the improved death recaps addon and still nothing.

Sypherioth

Cross healing is too strong

Gotta love to see those 10 vigors and regens. Btw vigor is aoe and not just 3 target on cast. Makes it even worse cause it can stack to. 8 people using vigor is 8 times vigor HOT active....

lronclaw

I didn’t vote because healing is not just simply overtuned. Each and every healing is BROKEN AF in this game, both pvp AND pve. And I am more than ready to sacrifice all my healing gear if it means i can enjoy the game for real. My thoughts: Nerf all damage and tankiness somehow and nerf healing to ground to make fighting more skill based in both pvp and pve.

Holycannoli

Cross healing is too strong

Amottica wrote: »

I have never seen an MMORPG, at least one that is worthy, cap how much damage or healing, a player could do.

I've never seen a MMORPG with this much healing. Healing is usually a specialized class or role and highly desired in groups because of it. In ESO every Tom, *** and Harry can be a healer and it doesn't require a build that sacrifices damage or defense.

It's overtuned and out of control.

jaws343

Cross healing is too strong

They should give healing overall in PVP a Pale Order style debuff.

The more players in your group, the less effective healing is on you from all sources.

A solo player, normal healing we see now. A 12 man group, healing is reduced significantly. Still there, but diminished.

I think this would do two things. It would keep healing and cross healing in a decent spot for solo and smaller groups, while greatly reducing the effectiveness for larger groups. Still allows ungrouped players to cross heal effectively in situations where it may be needed, like a few ungrouped players show up to defend a keep.

etchedpixels

Cross healing is too strong

jaws343 wrote: »

They should give healing overall in PVP a Pale Order style debuff.

The more players in your group, the less effective healing is on you from all sources.

So the ballgroups all ungroup and communicate entirely on discord instead to gain even more advantage ? Heals are not group constrained, and it wouldn't really work to make them so (it was tried - people hated it).

The nice thing about making the aoe/hot stuff a buff with limited stacking is that it could be made not to affect PvE much and it would make healing in PvP more skilled as there will be far more use for combat prayer and other buffs. Healing stays important but you can't stack insane heals on someone.

Dojohoda

Cross healing is too strong

Specifically same-type heal stacking in pvp, use battle spirit to eliminate that and see how that goes.

jaws343

Cross healing is too strong

etchedpixels wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

They should give healing overall in PVP a Pale Order style debuff.

The more players in your group, the less effective healing is on you from all sources.

So the ballgroups all ungroup and communicate entirely on discord instead to gain even more advantage ? Heals are not group constrained, and it wouldn't really work to make them so (it was tried - people hated it).

The nice thing about making the aoe/hot stuff a buff with limited stacking is that it could be made not to affect PvE much and it would make healing in PvP more skilled as there will be far more use for combat prayer and other buffs. Healing stays important but you can't stack insane heals on someone.

Eh, that is likely not to happen or else we would already see it in situations where coordinated groups all wanted to run rallying cry, for example.

There are a lot of benefits to running as a group that go beyond set usage. Like being able to visually see who is who on screen for your team, following crown, using group only oriented buffs, etc. Nothing that an ungrouped voice only team is going to accomplish.

etchedpixels

Cross healing is too strong

jaws343 wrote: »

There are a lot of benefits to running as a group that go beyond set usage. Like being able to visually see who is who on screen for your team, following crown, using group only oriented buffs, etc. Nothing that an ungrouped voice only team is going to accomplish.

Right now the grouping outweighs the not. The moment you change that then people will stop doing it.

Klingenlied

Self healing is too weak

divnyi wrote: »

Cross heals are cancer. No arguing that. But.

My opinion - healing overall is overtuned. Two bruisers can fight each other infinitely. Healing should not fully outheal damage.

Solution: reduce healing at battle spirit and slightly reduce damage done at battle spirit.

That is not correct in general. That is the result of specific item sets that even don't work the same for every class.
Same type of HOTS should not stack. That's the main issue. Brawlers being able to fight for eternity is item set and class balancing issues combined.

I think we should wait how stuff turns out after the patch. I get the feeling PvP might actually be improved by a lot.

xDeusEJRx

Cross healing is too strong

Klingenlied wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Cross heals are cancer. No arguing that. But.

My opinion - healing overall is overtuned. Two bruisers can fight each other infinitely. Healing should not fully outheal damage.

Solution: reduce healing at battle spirit and slightly reduce damage done at battle spirit.

That is not correct in general. That is the result of specific item sets that even don't work the same for every class.
Same type of HOTS should not stack. That's the main issue. Brawlers being able to fight for eternity is item set and class balancing issues combined.

I think we should wait how stuff turns out after the patch. I get the feeling PvP might actually be improved by a lot.

Healing changes in the next update are still poor even for pvp. Healing is probably going to be the most noticeable offender in the next patch.

Due to heals being nerfed across the board, most heals are gonna be dirt in PvP but cross healing still cancels that out. It doesn't matter to what rate they nerf heals across the board if a zerg of 25 people are all carrying resto staffs with radiating regen and other cross healing. They'll still outheal any and all damage done to them. Plus your self heals will be worse but the groups cross healing will just be healing for more than what you will.

I'm surprised there aren't groups full on abusing cross healing, run all templars, necros, and wardens with 3 cross heals each and you never die in PvP.

taugrim

Cross healing is too strong

Cross-healing (rightfully) got the majority of the votes.

I would like to see HoTs not stacking more than one or two on the same target.

Try that out, see how healing feels in PVP.

Some folks are saying healing is overtuned, and maybe it is, but I'd like ZoS to remove the obvious culprit first so we can see how that feels.

Imagine doing that, incremental balance changes, instead of the cluster that is Update 35 PTS.

Suligost

its overtuned.

Issue of healing is IT SCALES of dmg, so all just spam DMG mindlessly as there is no downside to it (it's especially efficient with healing of templar/DK which is full burst HP).

The Only way for me to deal with overheal in long-term is to bring new separated scaling for it that does not come from stamina/dmg/magicka, so having high heal will come at huge cost of resistances or dmg.

The more expensive way to do it is to bring cooldowns for all healing spells, so they have to be used strategically not mindlessly like spammables.

Short-term just nerf it to pieces.

PS: I would say even more then that... Healing just paralyzes combat. Pressing block and healing for full any time you want should not be in the game. Period (atleast not as spammable).