The map has been fixed - we hope ZOS sees this and takes inspiration
Vylaera
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I'd like to add this section at the top of the post as of 7/4/22 as a foreword and disclaimer that I have begun redrawing the map to make it more accurate than it was. Spoilered right under this paragraph is relevant information.
Everything from here forward is the original post from a month earlier, 6/4/22 and information for the current version available to download. it is still worth reading through if this is the first time you've stumbled upon this post as I detailed many of the problems with ESO's map with explanations and solutions, however, details on the map itself will be outdated when we release version 2.
We've been generating a bit of a buzz for a while about Accurate World Map, our project to fix the map. The main forum thread, "I remade the map - this time, everything is perfect", (at the time of this post's writing) got 11.8k views, 215 replies, 8 pages of discussion, and 106 awesomes. Thal and I are very happy that you guys have been following and supporting us along the way, and we are very happy that we were able to get this addon out to you guys. It is out on ESO UI, Nexus, and Minion now!
Now that the addon is out and "finished" the old thread is being depreciated as its purpose was to initially announce, then later to document the progress and development of the addon. This thread is a post-release thread to continue the discussion about Accurate World Map, and for us to collectively beg ZOS to fix their map in-game with ours acting as an example, demonstrating the desire within the community for it. More details, Images, and stuff below.
In the event ZOS sees this thread, both myself (Vylaera, artist) and Thal-J (coder) are open to contact if anyone at ZOS has questions or concerns about our fixed map, why we made certain changes, and what our reasoning was. We both care deeply about the Lore of The Elder Scrolls, and much of that lore hinges on the map being correct to make sense, as every event and every story takes place somewhere and is often shaped by that somewhere's geography, such as Morrowind's Borders and its strenuous relationship the the Argonians to the South and Nords to the West, which are not properly represented on the in-game ESO map, as one example.
Why did we make this?
To be very frank - ESO's map sucks. The map is not lore accurate, this was even admitted to by the then-loremaster, Lawrence Schick, in an interview. The map's inaccuracies have been a huge point of contention within the community since the launch of the game, and ZOS has never fixed it. We decided that, since ZOS has been taking inspiration from community addons lately (such as skyshards on the map, adding ability timers, and a buff tracker), now would be the best time to create an addon that addresses the biggest elephant in the room. Bulleted below are a few things the map got wrong, for a full list of changes, see the changelog section on the mod pages.
Onto the map itself
This addon adds many new features and changes to the world map, the most notable of which are mentioned below and fully customizable in the addon settings.
Now that I've described the vanilla map's problems, and documented a few features and fixes we made in our addon, I would like to dedicate a sizeable chunk of the rest of this post to beg ZOS to fix the vanilla map, as an addon is simply a bandaid on the festering wound that is the current in-game map.
Why is the map being wrong an issue?
Not only does it appear that ZOS don't care about the lore of the game series they've been entrusted with, it also impacts future content releases. As I mentioned above, ZOS has been well aware the map is wrong for a very long time, but have done nothing about it. The lead writer, Bill Slaviseck, said in regards to why High Isle was chosen for this year's chapter, that ZOS is running out of space on the map to add new zones. This is a tell that they all know the map is wrong. They haven't run out of space, they simply don't have any space left on the map that wouldn't lock-in improperly placed lore inaccurate zones so that they can't be moved later. This comes to me, actually, as a sigh of relief. This demonstrates that the people at ZOS do not want to make the map inaccurate, and have intentionally gone other places so that the mistakes on the map aren't locked-in. And I honestly thank him for saying that.
But ESO is an MMO, and it sees regular content releases on a bi-annual basis. There's only so many islands to go to on Nirn. ZOS has to fix the map in order to ensure ESO's future is secure, lore accurate, and respectful of the series' integrity. The map needs to be fixed as soon as possible, so that Next Year's content isn't hindered by a wrong map, and to avoid locking in bad mistakes present on the current map. All of us within the ES community would love and thank ZOS for this, as the map of Tamriel is something very fundamental to the series. Everyone has seen the iconic and recognizable silhouette of Tamriel, and ESO didn't get it right.
I would be ecstatic if ZOS announced the map was being fixed, even moreso if they used my addon as a basis for the design changes. Absolutely go wild, feel free to use my addon as inspiration, as I've carefully and meticulously ensured everything is correct.
Moving on from there, I have a few extra in-game screenshots to show off to conclude this post.
A cropped in-game screenshot (taken by thal since EU is up) showing off the map in-game and the option to show only major settlements wayshrines on the map to clean it up.
A cropped in-game screenshot (also taken by thal, all of these in this section of the post are) that shows off the repositioning of Eastmarch as well as a preview of the optional lore text added to all of the zones.
A cropped in-game screenshot showing the Eltheric Ocean button, which takes you to a second map of the Eltheric Ocean.
An in-game screenshot showing a section of the Eltheric with High Isle, Amenos, Galen, and Dreadsail Reef, as well as the Tamriel button to get back to the main map.
Thank you all for reading, thank you to ZOS and the forums for letting me post my stuff here, and thanks again to everyone who's supported us with suggestions, kind words, and downloads.
Edited by ZOS_FalcoYamaoka on July 7, 2022 8:31PM HUGE update to comment today, will also be updating the top of the post alongside.
Put simply, I'm redrawing the map.
Put elaborately, there's many issues with my map that I was never happy with, but now that Thal has figured out ways to make the map easier to edit, decisions and oversights I made in earlier development can now be fixed. These oversights and decisions I made were based on the assumption that we might not be able to actually move anything on the map, and that we'd just have an aesthetic that wasn't necessarily functional in the way we'd hoped, and is now after many code breakthroughs and creative thinking from Thal and myself.
Now that Thal has designed a method to automatically move wayshrines and player markers, moving the locations of Zones is very easy, or at least easier than it was before. So, since we have the tech and know-how to move zones, the entire map is being redrawn and every zone is getting repositioned to match their lore-accurate positions according to the Anthology Map. The map will truly be an Accurate World Map.
Here are a few images demonstrating issues with the map previously. Many locations, borders, rivers, and shorelines did not match up with Anthology, the canon map, as I just kept where they were from the ESO map originally.
High Rock. Even with my lite changes, it still doesn't line up well.
All of these issues are being fixed in version 2, which will also come with much needed bug fixes and feature additions. Version 2 will also feature a larger crop to accommodate the Systres archipelago as to eliminate the need for the Eltheric Ocean map, which, even though a popular feature, was a secondary map I would need to keep updated, as well as make additional versions of when we start making new map styles. The Eltheric also bloated the file size which we need to keep small as ESO UI has a 100mb file size limit, and we still hadn't made planned aesthetic customization features. It was simply too cumbersome for development.
So without further ado, here's the current foundation I will be working off of to redraw the map.
And of course, a progress gif showing the vanilla map, the anthology map, the zones aligned to anthology, and my outline.
I'm very glad I can make these changes now because it makes not only for a higher quality product true to its name, but also because it's been bugging the heck out of me.
I will be able to reuse much of the work I've already done, so it shouldn't take too long to get this shipped out to you all. Simply a matter of getting the lines drawn, adding the borders, adding the zone glow, adding the ocean waves, finishing touches, and then getting everything to match up in game on the code side.
Put simply, I'm redrawing the map.
Put elaborately, there's many issues with my map that I was never happy with, but now that Thal has figured out ways to make the map easier to edit, decisions and oversights I made in earlier development can now be fixed. These oversights and decisions I made were based on the assumption that we might not be able to actually move anything on the map, and that we'd just have an aesthetic that wasn't necessarily functional in the way we'd hoped, and is now after many code breakthroughs and creative thinking from Thal and myself.
Now that Thal has designed a method to automatically move wayshrines and player markers, moving the locations of Zones is very easy, or at least easier than it was before. So, since we have the tech and know-how to move zones, the entire map is being redrawn and every zone is getting repositioned to match their lore-accurate positions according to the Anthology Map. The map will truly be an Accurate World Map.
Here are a few images demonstrating issues with the map previously. Many locations, borders, rivers, and shorelines did not match up with Anthology, the canon map, as I just kept where they were from the ESO map originally.
Black Marsh and the Niben did not align with the canon shape previously.
Vvardenfell, the Telvanni Peninsula, and the Sacred East did not align with the cnaon shape. Visible also is a peek at the planned Telvannis change to the TR shape, a more detailed and less phallic-looking shape.
The Strid River, the border between Cyrodiil and Valenwood, did not match up either, and the Gold Coast was smaller than it should be.
High Rock. Even with my lite changes, it still doesn't line up well.
All of these issues are being fixed in version 2, which will also come with much needed bug fixes and feature additions. Version 2 will also feature a larger crop to accommodate the Systres archipelago as to eliminate the need for the Eltheric Ocean map, which, even though a popular feature, was a secondary map I would need to keep updated, as well as make additional versions of when we start making new map styles. The Eltheric also bloated the file size which we need to keep small as ESO UI has a 100mb file size limit, and we still hadn't made planned aesthetic customization features. It was simply too cumbersome for development.
So without further ado, here's the current foundation I will be working off of to redraw the map.
And of course, a progress gif showing the vanilla map, the anthology map, the zones aligned to anthology, and my outline.
I'm very glad I can make these changes now because it makes not only for a higher quality product true to its name, but also because it's been bugging the heck out of me.
I will be able to reuse much of the work I've already done, so it shouldn't take too long to get this shipped out to you all. Simply a matter of getting the lines drawn, adding the borders, adding the zone glow, adding the ocean waves, finishing touches, and then getting everything to match up in game on the code side.
Everything from here forward is the original post from a month earlier, 6/4/22 and information for the current version available to download. it is still worth reading through if this is the first time you've stumbled upon this post as I detailed many of the problems with ESO's map with explanations and solutions, however, details on the map itself will be outdated when we release version 2.
We've been generating a bit of a buzz for a while about Accurate World Map, our project to fix the map. The main forum thread, "I remade the map - this time, everything is perfect", (at the time of this post's writing) got 11.8k views, 215 replies, 8 pages of discussion, and 106 awesomes. Thal and I are very happy that you guys have been following and supporting us along the way, and we are very happy that we were able to get this addon out to you guys. It is out on ESO UI, Nexus, and Minion now!
Now that the addon is out and "finished" the old thread is being depreciated as its purpose was to initially announce, then later to document the progress and development of the addon. This thread is a post-release thread to continue the discussion about Accurate World Map, and for us to collectively beg ZOS to fix their map in-game with ours acting as an example, demonstrating the desire within the community for it. More details, Images, and stuff below.
In the event ZOS sees this thread, both myself (Vylaera, artist) and Thal-J (coder) are open to contact if anyone at ZOS has questions or concerns about our fixed map, why we made certain changes, and what our reasoning was. We both care deeply about the Lore of The Elder Scrolls, and much of that lore hinges on the map being correct to make sense, as every event and every story takes place somewhere and is often shaped by that somewhere's geography, such as Morrowind's Borders and its strenuous relationship the the Argonians to the South and Nords to the West, which are not properly represented on the in-game ESO map, as one example.
My map, exported in 4k resolution in jpg format for web optimization.
Why did we make this?
To be very frank - ESO's map sucks. The map is not lore accurate, this was even admitted to by the then-loremaster, Lawrence Schick, in an interview. The map's inaccuracies have been a huge point of contention within the community since the launch of the game, and ZOS has never fixed it. We decided that, since ZOS has been taking inspiration from community addons lately (such as skyshards on the map, adding ability timers, and a buff tracker), now would be the best time to create an addon that addresses the biggest elephant in the room. Bulleted below are a few things the map got wrong, for a full list of changes, see the changelog section on the mod pages.
- Eastmarch and The Rift are too far east and impede on the Velothis arm of Morrowind and where the city of Blacklight is supposed to be.
- Because of the above inaccuracy, Vvardenfell is too small and too far east, and the Telvanni peninsula is awkwardly shoved to the side to make room.
- Shadowfen is supposed to be in Black Marsh, but for whatever reason has been moved north into Morrowind, totally ignoring the territory House Hlaalu and House Dres are supposed to own.
- Cyrodiil is improperly placed, not the right size, and not the right shape.
- Because of the above inaccuracy, Cyrodiil's Niben Bay and Niben River are not visible on the map.
- Craglorn is improperly placed, not the right size, and not the right shape.
- High Rock sticks out too far northwest.
- Hew's Bane is too far west.
- The Summerset Isles are spread too far apart, and are supposed to hug each other tightly.
- Many more issues have been fixed and changes made, see the full changelog in the changelog section on the mod pages.
Onto the map itself
This addon adds many new features and changes to the world map, the most notable of which are mentioned below and fully customizable in the addon settings.
- Our map has been fully recreated by Vylaera (me), and coded by an absolute genius, Thal-J, using no pre-existing vanilla map assets. The map is 8k(!) in resolution, as opposed to the low resolution and blurry 2k resolution vanilla map.
- All zones are on the map and functional just like in vanilla. Wayshrines have been moved to their proper locations for zones which got moved around, and new blob textures (the texture that makes zones glow when the cursor is over them) have been created to match the new resolution of the map and the outlines of the zones.
- Descriptive lore text has been implemented underneath the names of the zones for those of you who enjoy TES's robust lore.
- And finally, a few zones and wayshrines have been renamed to be lore-accurate, such as Northern Elsweyr, which was renamed to Ne-Quin-Al Desert, since that's the region where the zone actually resides. Southern Elsweyr was renamed to match, now called Quin-Rawl, as the Quin-Rawl Peninsula is where the zones is set. Additionally, a few wayshrines have been renamed, one of them was to fix a spelling error missed in vanilla, and both of the Daggerfall Covenant Cyrodiil Wayshrines have been renamed, since Cyrodiil definitely doesn't border High Rock, and it makes absolutely no sense those wayshrines would be called "__ High Rock Gate"
A gif comparison of my map and the (pre-high isle) in game map.
A graph representing directional changes for the replacement of zones to be lore accurate.
The Anthology map laid over ESO's in-game map to highlight the problem areas.
The Anthology map laid over Accurate World map to demonstrate our fixes.
Now that I've described the vanilla map's problems, and documented a few features and fixes we made in our addon, I would like to dedicate a sizeable chunk of the rest of this post to beg ZOS to fix the vanilla map, as an addon is simply a bandaid on the festering wound that is the current in-game map.
Why is the map being wrong an issue?
Not only does it appear that ZOS don't care about the lore of the game series they've been entrusted with, it also impacts future content releases. As I mentioned above, ZOS has been well aware the map is wrong for a very long time, but have done nothing about it. The lead writer, Bill Slaviseck, said in regards to why High Isle was chosen for this year's chapter, that ZOS is running out of space on the map to add new zones. This is a tell that they all know the map is wrong. They haven't run out of space, they simply don't have any space left on the map that wouldn't lock-in improperly placed lore inaccurate zones so that they can't be moved later. This comes to me, actually, as a sigh of relief. This demonstrates that the people at ZOS do not want to make the map inaccurate, and have intentionally gone other places so that the mistakes on the map aren't locked-in. And I honestly thank him for saying that.
But ESO is an MMO, and it sees regular content releases on a bi-annual basis. There's only so many islands to go to on Nirn. ZOS has to fix the map in order to ensure ESO's future is secure, lore accurate, and respectful of the series' integrity. The map needs to be fixed as soon as possible, so that Next Year's content isn't hindered by a wrong map, and to avoid locking in bad mistakes present on the current map. All of us within the ES community would love and thank ZOS for this, as the map of Tamriel is something very fundamental to the series. Everyone has seen the iconic and recognizable silhouette of Tamriel, and ESO didn't get it right.
I would be ecstatic if ZOS announced the map was being fixed, even moreso if they used my addon as a basis for the design changes. Absolutely go wild, feel free to use my addon as inspiration, as I've carefully and meticulously ensured everything is correct.
Moving on from there, I have a few extra in-game screenshots to show off to conclude this post.
A cropped in-game screenshot (taken by thal since EU is up) showing off the map in-game and the option to show only major settlements wayshrines on the map to clean it up.
A cropped in-game screenshot (also taken by thal, all of these in this section of the post are) that shows off the repositioning of Eastmarch as well as a preview of the optional lore text added to all of the zones.
A cropped in-game screenshot showing the Eltheric Ocean button, which takes you to a second map of the Eltheric Ocean.
An in-game screenshot showing a section of the Eltheric with High Isle, Amenos, Galen, and Dreadsail Reef, as well as the Tamriel button to get back to the main map.
Thank you all for reading, thank you to ZOS and the forums for letting me post my stuff here, and thanks again to everyone who's supported us with suggestions, kind words, and downloads.
Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author
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Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i didn't get around to saying it on your original thread but very well done on this! it's clear you guys have put a tonne of work into this and have equal if not more passion for the wonderful world this series takes place in. i really do hope zos takes notice and tweaks the ingame map down the line like you guys haveskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
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Vylaera✭✭✭✭✭
✭i didn't get around to saying it on your original thread but very well done on this! it's clear you guys have put a tonne of work into this and have equal if not more passion for the wonderful world this series takes place in. i really do hope zos takes notice and tweaks the ingame map down the line like you guys have
Thank you!Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author1 -
carthalis✭✭✭just wanted to say love the add on, downloaded it last night and love this map version and looks amazingEdited by carthalis on June 6, 2022 2:46PM3 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭We see that Shadowfen and Deeshan are touching ingame so that is what it is, what we see ingame should take pirority over outdated lore, this huge gap on your map is an immersion killer.6 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭First off, amazing work on what you’ve created here. I’m jealous that I won’t be able to use your map on console!
We can only hope someone listens since the more zones they create, the more chances for future releases to contribute to an inaccurate map. The current ingame map even makes some areas impossible to create DLC for such as the region East of Eastmarch/The Rift.
ZOS this is really an add-on to take inspiration from.... fr just use the exact map which is provided by this add-on.7 -
Vylaera✭✭✭✭✭
✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »We see that Shadowfen and Deeshan are touching ingame so that is what it is, what we see ingame should take pirority over outdated lore, this huge gap on your map is an immersion killer.
What's in-game is wrong. Very simple.Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author16 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's great, loving it completely! Thanks for all your work on this, both of you.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....3 -
Vylaera✭✭✭✭✭
✭FeedbackOnly wrote: »Thanks everyone for all the work you guys put into it.just wanted to say love the add on, downloaded it last night and love this map version and looks amazing
Thank you both!Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author0 -
Normally I do not visit these forums, but am very glad I chanced to do so when you posted this:
I am absolutely gobsmacked.... downright awestruck... by the passion, dedication, and sheer hard work apparent in this project!
Well done to all involved!
You make me wish I was a competent coder so could help!
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Vylaera✭✭✭✭✭
✭Suedyin_Loreseeker wrote: »Normally I do not visit these forums, but am very glad I chanced to do so when you posted this:
I am absolutely gobsmacked.... downright awestruck... by the passion, dedication, and sheer hard work apparent in this project!
Well done to all involved!
You make me wish I was a competent coder so could help!
Thank you! Your words mean a lot to both of us.
And yeah, I'm sure thal would like some coding help haha, map has been a pretty tall order and he really put in the effort these last few weeks especially to get it working, bug free, and ready for the release of High Isle.Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author4 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »We see that Shadowfen and Deeshan are touching ingame so that is what it is, what we see ingame should take pirority over outdated lore, this huge gap on your map is an immersion killer.
What's in-game is wrong. Very simple.
No the lore version is what is wrong, this is first and foremost a video game series and the games take priorty over everything else, if the game shows they are connected then they are connected, this lore version of Tamriel you speak of does not actualky exist in any format.5 -
Vylaera✭✭✭✭✭
✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »We see that Shadowfen and Deeshan are touching ingame so that is what it is, what we see ingame should take pirority over outdated lore, this huge gap on your map is an immersion killer.
What's in-game is wrong. Very simple.
No the lore version is what is wrong, this is first and foremost a video game series and the games take priorty over everything else, if the game shows they are connected then they are connected, this lore version of Tamriel you speak of does not actualky exist in any format.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/General:The_Elder_Scrolls_Anthology
Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author14 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Great job on this add on!TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »We see that Shadowfen and Deeshan are touching ingame so that is what it is, what we see ingame should take pirority over outdated lore, this huge gap on your map is an immersion killer.
What's in-game is wrong. Very simple.
No the lore version is what is wrong, this is first and foremost a video game series and the games take priorty over everything else, if the game shows they are connected then they are connected, this lore version of Tamriel you speak of does not actualky exist in any format.
interesting take. I disagree with it, but you are entitled to your own opinion8 -
Vylaera✭✭✭✭✭
✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »We see that Shadowfen and Deeshan are touching ingame so that is what it is, what we see ingame should take pirority over outdated lore, this huge gap on your map is an immersion killer.
What's in-game is wrong. Very simple.
No the lore version is what is wrong, this is first and foremost a video game series and the games take priorty over everything else, if the game shows they are connected then they are connected, this lore version of Tamriel you speak of does not actualky exist in any format.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7497729#Comment_7497729Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author6 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »We see that Shadowfen and Deeshan are touching ingame so that is what it is, what we see ingame should take pirority over outdated lore, this huge gap on your map is an immersion killer.
What's in-game is wrong. Very simple.
No the lore version is what is wrong, this is first and foremost a video game series and the games take priorty over everything else, if the game shows they are connected then they are connected, this lore version of Tamriel you speak of does not actualky exist in any format.
that's great, i'm really glad that this sort of thing isn't important to you, and the best part about that is you can comfortably ignore this add on and not install it to your game
there is, however, a map of tamriel that has been at least decently consistent since tes: IV (pictured below) and, at least at a glance, these guy's tweaks to the eso world map are a lot closer to it.
skingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
4 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »We see that Shadowfen and Deeshan are touching ingame so that is what it is, what we see ingame should take pirority over outdated lore, this huge gap on your map is an immersion killer.
What's in-game is wrong. Very simple.
No the lore version is what is wrong, this is first and foremost a video game series and the games take priorty over everything else, if the game shows they are connected then they are connected, this lore version of Tamriel you speak of does not actualky exist in any format.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/General:The_Elder_Scrolls_Anthology
Are you aware that ESO takes place in the second era? That is not a second era map.
Cities can move you know.1 -
Vylaera✭✭✭✭✭
✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »We see that Shadowfen and Deeshan are touching ingame so that is what it is, what we see ingame should take pirority over outdated lore, this huge gap on your map is an immersion killer.
What's in-game is wrong. Very simple.
No the lore version is what is wrong, this is first and foremost a video game series and the games take priorty over everything else, if the game shows they are connected then they are connected, this lore version of Tamriel you speak of does not actualky exist in any format.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/General:The_Elder_Scrolls_Anthology
Are you aware that ESO takes place in the second era? That is not a second era map.
Cities can move you know.TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »We see that Shadowfen and Deeshan are touching ingame so that is what it is, what we see ingame should take pirority over outdated lore, this huge gap on your map is an immersion killer.
What's in-game is wrong. Very simple.
No the lore version is what is wrong, this is first and foremost a video game series and the games take priorty over everything else, if the game shows they are connected then they are connected, this lore version of Tamriel you speak of does not actualky exist in any format.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7497729#Comment_7497729
I've said this probably a dozen times in the past few months, so I'm going to lay it all out one last time and just link back to this comment when someone says that ESO's base game map retconned anything.
Quoting from UESP:
{{Anchor|On Elder Scrolls Online's use of a wolf as Indoril's sigil (06/15/17)
Early in ESO's development, like nine years ago, well before we had any lore-checking processes in place, the wolf got picked for the Indoril banner based on the stylized wolf-head that appeared on Mehra Drora's gorget in TES3. This got promulgated onto some other assets, and it didn't get spotted until ESO: MW was in PTS testing. We're gradually sorting it out, but doing that kind of thing means diverting resources from the next DLC, so corrections don't always happen instantly.
End quote
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/General:Lawrence_Schick's_Posts
We can infer from this that
1. Alpha development didn't have lore checks in place
2. They're aware of things that are lore breaking but don't fix them because it diverts resources away from the next DLC
#1 is particularly relevant because the base game's map was finalized and being worked on as early as 2009. The base game map was drawn incorrectly, and then used as a basis to build the zones on. The incorrectly drawn map, which I will reiterate was not an intentional design change, rather an error (several errors) made of negligence, should not be taken as a retcon for locations of cities or geography nor for the shapes of shorelines or borders.
I'd like to quickly make an aside point with #2. They don't update the map for this reason. I'm sure internally they're all well aware the map is wrong, but team leads likely won't allocate resources and teams to fix it.
This is a 25 year old franchise, almost 26, with a very defined and iconic map that has had little change over its history. There have been retcons when new mainline games have released, notably the shape of Vvardenfell changed but the rest of the map didn't, the Niben River was given a more defined shape when Oblivion released, and Skyrim got a new coastline that's actually detailed, but the new changes never made any massive retcons such as changing the entire shape of Morrowind as well as its borders, or making Skyrim stretch all the way to the Inner Sea. Or making Hammerfell impede on where Falkreath Hold should be. Or changing where the Imperial City is. Or any other examples of how wrong the map is. The map of Tamriel hasn't actually changed in any meaningful way since 2002, and the only large change in 2002 was Vvardenfell's new shape. The map hasn't changed at all in 20 years.
For reference, here's every official map of Tamriel, starting with Arena and ending with Anthology, which is the most accurate and authoritative map of Tamriel we have to date.
It is abundantly clear that ESO's map is wrong, not a retcon. It is wrong.
To my next point, we can see that even internally at ZOS, they do not have a consistent map.
Many examples of wildly different maps exist that have come directly from ZOS and demonstrates that they don't even have a good grasp on Tamriel's geography themselves, and certainly should not be given the ability to retcon the shape of Tamriel.
Here's a few images that demonstrate this. I don't think I'll need to elaborate any further on this point.
here's the most accurate map they ever released, as a promotional image created in 2014. It is accurately shaped and does not draw borders for the zones, so it could be said they're in the right place here even though it looks like they still aren't.
Here's a crop of the in-game map pre-Morrowind and post-Morrowind. Pay particular attention to how they just casually moved the Telvanni peninsula over because their map didn't have proper space for the actual shape of Vvardenfell (because their map is wrong and if they had drawn it correctly, there wouldn't be a need to move things around, making the map even worse than it already was).
Now for the most atrocious map of Morrowind-Skyrim I've ever seen. This speaks for itself, and it speaks volumes.
I hope I've dispelled any doubt that ESO's map is wrong and I will simply link back to this comment when someone wrongly thinks otherwise.Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author18 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just installed this via Minion and am waiting (not very patiently) for the game to come back up on PC/NA.
Amazing work guys! I hope it looks as good in game as it does here!3 -
KitsuneShoujo✭✭✭I'd use it, but it breaks the map pins addon, and 8k per map is a bit much, but excellent work otherwise!1 -
Morgaledh✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »We see that Shadowfen and Deeshan are touching ingame so that is what it is, what we see ingame should take pirority over outdated lore, this huge gap on your map is an immersion killer.
In TES, lore is never outdated. That's why it's lore. The integrity and continuity of the lore is a big part of what makes these games what they are, even if most of the players never know about it individually.
This is also why I completely gave up worrying about lore in ESO, after the Vvardenfell expansion. It was clear that the designers either never played TES games before Skyrim, or intentionally set out to wreck Dunmer stories etc. I'm leaving aside the absurd conceit of the Three Banners War (pacts with Argonians and Nords...) Like many who have loved these games for years, I just tell myself that this whole ESO thing is a dragon break and move on.
That said, I will use this map as an addon, no question. Yeoman's work here, people, great job.9 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »We see that Shadowfen and Deeshan are touching ingame so that is what it is, what we see ingame should take pirority over outdated lore, this huge gap on your map is an immersion killer.
What's in-game is wrong. Very simple.
No the lore version is what is wrong, this is first and foremost a video game series and the games take priorty over everything else, if the game shows they are connected then they are connected, this lore version of Tamriel you speak of does not actualky exist in any format.
On Principle, I would usually agree with you on this - had the lore master and game developers not fully admitted publicly that the map was not accurate.
When the people that made the game say it was wrong, then it was wrong.
8 -
KitsuneShoujo✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »We see that Shadowfen and Deeshan are touching ingame so that is what it is, what we see ingame should take pirority over outdated lore, this huge gap on your map is an immersion killer.
ESO isn't the end-all-be-all for TES lore, so no it shouldn't take priority over lore.8 -
Vylaera✭✭✭✭✭
✭KitsuneShoujo wrote: »I'd use it, but it breaks the map pins addon, and 8k per map is a bit much, but excellent work otherwise!
Map pins is only soft-incompatible, actually. Some things we renamed get un-renamed, but the pins themselves like lorebooks, skyshards, other stuff in zone maps still works flawlessly (I use it in my game).Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author4 -
KitsuneShoujo✭✭✭KitsuneShoujo wrote: »I'd use it, but it breaks the map pins addon, and 8k per map is a bit much, but excellent work otherwise!
Map pins is only soft-incompatible, actually. Some things we renamed get un-renamed, but the pins themselves like lorebooks, skyshards, other stuff in zone maps still works flawlessly (I use it in my game).
Well I'll give it a shot even with the file size. I want to see how it looks in-game.
4 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Vylaera - for some reason I'm unable to get the setting Correct Player Positioning to allow me to turn it on, even though I have the two libs, LibGPS and LibZone, and they're as up to date as possible (by that I mean, I updated the API version in both .txt files to 101033 101034 myself so they don't show out of date, which is my usual method after a chapter or DLC release).
LibGPS is the release from March, LibZone from April.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....2 -
Thal_J✭✭✭✭@Vylaera - for some reason I'm unable to get the setting Correct Player Positioning to allow me to turn it on, even though I have the two libs, LibGPS and LibZone, and they're as up to date as possible (by that I mean, I updated the API version in both .txt files to 101033 101034 myself so they don't show out of date, which is my usual method after a chapter or DLC release).
LibGPS is the release from March, LibZone from April.
@TaSheen The Player Position fix feature relies on unreleased versions of LibGPS and LibZone, the author for LibZone is on holiday right now and so won't be around to upload it until mid-June, and the author of LibGPS hasn't updated his yet either. When they both do, the feature should turn on automatically.3 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Vylaera - for some reason I'm unable to get the setting Correct Player Positioning to allow me to turn it on, even though I have the two libs, LibGPS and LibZone, and they're as up to date as possible (by that I mean, I updated the API version in both .txt files to 101033 101034 myself so they don't show out of date, which is my usual method after a chapter or DLC release).
LibGPS is the release from March, LibZone from April.
@TaSheen The Player Position fix feature relies on unreleased versions of LibGPS and LibZone, the author for LibZone is on holiday right now and so won't be around to upload it until mid-June, and the author of LibGPS hasn't updated his yet either. When they both do, the feature should turn on automatically.
Ah! I knew Baertram was on vacation, but it didn't occur to me that the map would be "waiting on" updates to those libs Thanks!______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1
This discussion has been closed.