Dear ZOS. If you don't have enough time for new DLC debug process...

AvalonRanger

Dear ZOS. If you don't have enough time for new DLC debugging process...
...Then just don't rush uploading data on the server. I was just spending only 15min in the high Isle.
But got server maintenance message suddenly. So, I've been marking up unknown wayshrine position as fast as I can
until server down. That was terrible first impression of new DLC.

I can wait for perfect ROM while doing gear farming in the normal dungeon.
Please don't rush and don't upload unperfect ROM on the server anymore.

Very please.

stewhead2ub17_ESO

Oh the horror...

Amottica

Sorry about the inconvenience. Glad you made the best of it by marking the wayshrine locations.

Browiseth

unexpected stuff happens sometimes. an update that seemed like there was no reason it would cause any issues can sometimes just break in unexpected ways

it's better that whatever issues they saw, they caught them early, no?

SainguinKrist

I think you're not giving enough understanding to the fact that they can't possibly foresee every issue with a major patch release.

They try to get as much as they can with the PTS, but the truth is the PTS isn't even a tiny fraction of the games Live server population.

When patches go live there are exponentially more people connecting, interacting with, and exposing what could be issues.

ZOS did their best, and they had to take the game down for a few hours to fix a database issue.

I'm sure they want us ingame just as bad as we want to be ingame.

RevJJ

If they want us in game, perhaps they should hire actual qa people instead of relying on players and then not listening to the feedback those players give.

I was expecting that, because of my timezone, I would not be able to play today and would miss out on dailies. Why was I expecting that? Because this happens every chapter release and players are starting to expect “second maintenance” or even “third maintenance”.

If ZOS didn’t see it coming that this would happen again then I really have doubts if they have any idea what they’re doing at all.

Browiseth

RevJJ wrote: »

If ZOS didn’t see it coming that this would happen again

didn't see what coming? you make it sound like every time zenimax have had to take the server down for any reason, it's always the exact same literal reason

networking architecture is unbelievably complex, and i can guarantee you that every day at the office revolves around an entirely new issue that the devs have never seen before, requiring them to re-invent the wheel every update, so to speak

you can't just try and simplify it to "how did you not expect server issues and prepare in advance zenizos" because they have no way of predicting every single specific issue that will inevitably arise each update

yes it sucks you can't play the game for a few hours, but it would suck a lot more if something catastrophic happened like trying to play with 9999999999 ping for hours on end or worst case scenario your character data being rolled back suddenly

RevJJ

Browiseth wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

If ZOS didn’t see it coming that this would happen again

didn't see what coming? you make it sound like every time zenimax have had to take the server down for any reason, it's always the exact same literal reason

networking architecture is unbelievably complex, and i can guarantee you that every day at the office revolves around an entirely new issue that the devs have never seen before, requiring them to re-invent the wheel every update, so to speak

you can't just try and simplify it to "how did you not expect server issues and prepare in advance zenizos" because they have no way of predicting every single specific issue that will inevitably arise each update

yes it sucks you can't play the game for a few hours, but it would suck a lot more if something catastrophic happened like trying to play with 9999999999 ping for hours on end or worst case scenario your character data being rolled back suddenly

Didn’t see coming that something would go wrong. Anything. Every single chapter release there is additional, unplanned, extended maintenance. Perhaps they could try incorporating that into their timelines instead of communicating unrealistic ones, giving players expectations and then, as usual, not meeting them.

Browiseth

RevJJ wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

If ZOS didn’t see it coming that this would happen again

didn't see what coming? you make it sound like every time zenimax have had to take the server down for any reason, it's always the exact same literal reason

networking architecture is unbelievably complex, and i can guarantee you that every day at the office revolves around an entirely new issue that the devs have never seen before, requiring them to re-invent the wheel every update, so to speak

you can't just try and simplify it to "how did you not expect server issues and prepare in advance zenizos" because they have no way of predicting every single specific issue that will inevitably arise each update

yes it sucks you can't play the game for a few hours, but it would suck a lot more if something catastrophic happened like trying to play with 9999999999 ping for hours on end or worst case scenario your character data being rolled back suddenly

Didn’t see coming that something would go wrong. Anything. Every single chapter release there is additional, unplanned, extended maintenance. Perhaps they could try incorporating that into their timelines instead of communicating unrealistic ones, giving players expectations and then, as usual, not meeting them.

as sainguin above said, zos's testing environment is very different to the large numbers of players that interact with the live servers. sometimes the best way to test if something is working properly is to put it under the realistic amount of stress it will experience day to day

you might find that is the case today. zos did testing on their own internal server + the pts (bear in mind the pts sees comparatively little traffic when compared to the live server) to try and iron out any obvious or immediately dangerous issues, and a "stress-test" with the live server (so to speak) will inevitably bring more issues to light

i of course am not an employee at zos, which leads me into my point and main gripe, that i'm not an employee at zenimax online studios i mean that this is a pretty realistic example of what may actually go down when they push updates, but i can't speak for how accurate it is in this specific situation

RevJJ

Browiseth wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

If ZOS didn’t see it coming that this would happen again

didn't see what coming? you make it sound like every time zenimax have had to take the server down for any reason, it's always the exact same literal reason

networking architecture is unbelievably complex, and i can guarantee you that every day at the office revolves around an entirely new issue that the devs have never seen before, requiring them to re-invent the wheel every update, so to speak

you can't just try and simplify it to "how did you not expect server issues and prepare in advance zenizos" because they have no way of predicting every single specific issue that will inevitably arise each update

yes it sucks you can't play the game for a few hours, but it would suck a lot more if something catastrophic happened like trying to play with 9999999999 ping for hours on end or worst case scenario your character data being rolled back suddenly

Didn’t see coming that something would go wrong. Anything. Every single chapter release there is additional, unplanned, extended maintenance. Perhaps they could try incorporating that into their timelines instead of communicating unrealistic ones, giving players expectations and then, as usual, not meeting them.

as sainguin above said, zos's testing environment is very different to the large numbers of players that interact with the live servers. sometimes the best way to test if something is working properly is to put it under the realistic amount of stress it will experience day to day

you might find that is the case today. zos did testing on their own internal server + the pts (bear in mind the pts sees comparatively little traffic when compared to the live server) to try and iron out any obvious or immediately dangerous issues, and a "stress-test" with the live server (so to speak) will inevitably bring more issues to light

i of course am not an employee at zos, which leads me into my point and main gripe, that i'm not an employee at zenimax online studios i mean that this is a pretty realistic example of what may actually go down when they push updates, but i can't speak for how accurate it is in this specific situation

And what I am saying is that if the stress test fails every time (as it has with all chapter releases that I’ve experienced), perhaps they should allocate time for that in the timeline instead of communicating something that has so far been unrealistic.

Then again, it’s most likely a management decision what times are communicated and not up to people who do the actual work.

Browiseth

RevJJ wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

If ZOS didn’t see it coming that this would happen again

didn't see what coming? you make it sound like every time zenimax have had to take the server down for any reason, it's always the exact same literal reason

networking architecture is unbelievably complex, and i can guarantee you that every day at the office revolves around an entirely new issue that the devs have never seen before, requiring them to re-invent the wheel every update, so to speak

you can't just try and simplify it to "how did you not expect server issues and prepare in advance zenizos" because they have no way of predicting every single specific issue that will inevitably arise each update

yes it sucks you can't play the game for a few hours, but it would suck a lot more if something catastrophic happened like trying to play with 9999999999 ping for hours on end or worst case scenario your character data being rolled back suddenly

Didn’t see coming that something would go wrong. Anything. Every single chapter release there is additional, unplanned, extended maintenance. Perhaps they could try incorporating that into their timelines instead of communicating unrealistic ones, giving players expectations and then, as usual, not meeting them.

as sainguin above said, zos's testing environment is very different to the large numbers of players that interact with the live servers. sometimes the best way to test if something is working properly is to put it under the realistic amount of stress it will experience day to day

you might find that is the case today. zos did testing on their own internal server + the pts (bear in mind the pts sees comparatively little traffic when compared to the live server) to try and iron out any obvious or immediately dangerous issues, and a "stress-test" with the live server (so to speak) will inevitably bring more issues to light

i of course am not an employee at zos, which leads me into my point and main gripe, that i'm not an employee at zenimax online studios i mean that this is a pretty realistic example of what may actually go down when they push updates, but i can't speak for how accurate it is in this specific situation

And what I am saying is that if the stress test fails every time (as it has with all chapter releases that I’ve experienced), perhaps they should allocate time for that in the timeline instead of communicating something that has so far been unrealistic.

Then again, it’s most likely a management decision what times are communicated and not up to people who do the actual work.

that just kinda goes back to the all important word

unexpected

i get that its not a great look when they need to extend maintenance while all the players were expecting to be able to play, but i'd argue it would look even worse if they said "hi guys we're expecting everything to be a massive flop that we'll need to scramble to fix so just a heads up on that one"

joerginger

Browiseth wrote: »

but i'd argue it would look even worse if they said "hi guys we're expecting everything to be a massive flop that we'll need to scramble to fix so just a heads up on that one"

But by now every single person at the studio should be aware that this happens every single time, so it's really amazing to see it's still "unexpected" for them.

Dovahkiin02191973

Whatever is wrong with the Database has nothing to do with High Isle. Even the EU Servers have been affected. When I try to log into the EU server I get the message box that is supposed to send a code to my email address but it never arrives. I was able to get on the EU Servers through Steam as Steam never asks for this code but my main account is not accessible via the 64 bit executables due to whatever went wrong with their Database and no you can't predict it. Try playing other online games or even Skyrim or Oblivion. Those games have gotten patched up by modders as Bethesda didn't take the time to clean up the mess they made with them and it is foolish to think that any game producing company is perfect. ZOS has to put up with a lot of bull in these Forums.

RevJJ

Browiseth wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

If ZOS didn’t see it coming that this would happen again

didn't see what coming? you make it sound like every time zenimax have had to take the server down for any reason, it's always the exact same literal reason

networking architecture is unbelievably complex, and i can guarantee you that every day at the office revolves around an entirely new issue that the devs have never seen before, requiring them to re-invent the wheel every update, so to speak

you can't just try and simplify it to "how did you not expect server issues and prepare in advance zenizos" because they have no way of predicting every single specific issue that will inevitably arise each update

yes it sucks you can't play the game for a few hours, but it would suck a lot more if something catastrophic happened like trying to play with 9999999999 ping for hours on end or worst case scenario your character data being rolled back suddenly

Didn’t see coming that something would go wrong. Anything. Every single chapter release there is additional, unplanned, extended maintenance. Perhaps they could try incorporating that into their timelines instead of communicating unrealistic ones, giving players expectations and then, as usual, not meeting them.

as sainguin above said, zos's testing environment is very different to the large numbers of players that interact with the live servers. sometimes the best way to test if something is working properly is to put it under the realistic amount of stress it will experience day to day

you might find that is the case today. zos did testing on their own internal server + the pts (bear in mind the pts sees comparatively little traffic when compared to the live server) to try and iron out any obvious or immediately dangerous issues, and a "stress-test" with the live server (so to speak) will inevitably bring more issues to light

i of course am not an employee at zos, which leads me into my point and main gripe, that i'm not an employee at zenimax online studios i mean that this is a pretty realistic example of what may actually go down when they push updates, but i can't speak for how accurate it is in this specific situation

And what I am saying is that if the stress test fails every time (as it has with all chapter releases that I’ve experienced), perhaps they should allocate time for that in the timeline instead of communicating something that has so far been unrealistic.

Then again, it’s most likely a management decision what times are communicated and not up to people who do the actual work.

that just kinda goes back to the all important word

unexpected

i get that its not a great look when they need to extend maintenance while all the players were expecting to be able to play, but i'd argue it would look even worse if they said "hi guys we're expecting everything to be a massive flop that we'll need to scramble to fix so just a heads up on that one"

Usually, when planning a timeline, companies allocate additional time for unexpected delays because you can’t expect nothing to go wrong. Especially when it’s happened before. That’s not saying “we are expecting a train wreck”. That’s just giving a longer timeline to make sure things work correctly. Which, in my opinion, inspires more confidence than releasing and then going “oh oops we need more time”.

Browiseth

joerginger wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

but i'd argue it would look even worse if they said "hi guys we're expecting everything to be a massive flop that we'll need to scramble to fix so just a heads up on that one"

But by now every single person at the studio should be aware that this happens every single time, so it's really amazing to see it's still "unexpected" for them.

like i said in a previous post, networking and solving networking related problems is a little more complicated than people in this community like to let on.

anyway, it doesn't even really matter. in the end, everyone's just upset they can't play the game right now, so i have no doubt that even if zos communicated every single mundane, incomprehensible to the layman server bug they were combing through that arose in the 30 mins the live server was up(as well as every single internal process they were going through) (which by the way none of these things are even any of your business, data privacy and stuff), everyone would still complain but make up different excuses to justify their outrage

merpins

To be fair, the maintinence finished in record time. 4 hours? It's like they sprinted a marathon in an hour. Makes sense that they used a few shortcuts and were kindly asked by the marathon staff to go back and run the marathon again.

Amottica

RevJJ wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

If ZOS didn’t see it coming that this would happen again

didn't see what coming? you make it sound like every time zenimax have had to take the server down for any reason, it's always the exact same literal reason

networking architecture is unbelievably complex, and i can guarantee you that every day at the office revolves around an entirely new issue that the devs have never seen before, requiring them to re-invent the wheel every update, so to speak

you can't just try and simplify it to "how did you not expect server issues and prepare in advance zenizos" because they have no way of predicting every single specific issue that will inevitably arise each update

yes it sucks you can't play the game for a few hours, but it would suck a lot more if something catastrophic happened like trying to play with 9999999999 ping for hours on end or worst case scenario your character data being rolled back suddenly

Didn’t see coming that something would go wrong. Anything. Every single chapter release there is additional, unplanned, extended maintenance. Perhaps they could try incorporating that into their timelines instead of communicating unrealistic ones, giving players expectations and then, as usual, not meeting them.

as sainguin above said, zos's testing environment is very different to the large numbers of players that interact with the live servers. sometimes the best way to test if something is working properly is to put it under the realistic amount of stress it will experience day to day

you might find that is the case today. zos did testing on their own internal server + the pts (bear in mind the pts sees comparatively little traffic when compared to the live server) to try and iron out any obvious or immediately dangerous issues, and a "stress-test" with the live server (so to speak) will inevitably bring more issues to light

i of course am not an employee at zos, which leads me into my point and main gripe, that i'm not an employee at zenimax online studios i mean that this is a pretty realistic example of what may actually go down when they push updates, but i can't speak for how accurate it is in this specific situation

And what I am saying is that if the stress test fails every time (as it has with all chapter releases that I’ve experienced), perhaps they should allocate time for that in the timeline instead of communicating something that has so far been unrealistic.

Then again, it’s most likely a management decision what times are communicated and not up to people who do the actual work.

But it does not fail every time.

Also, at least three layers of testing is done.

1. Zos play tests on their private test server.
2. Zos does stress testing to simulate players on their private test server. They have stated this does not truly simulate players but does test a load.
3. Zos opens up the PTS to players for testing. Ofc, this does not have the load a live server has.

So in each possible testing scenario, something is lacking from what can be expected on a live server. It is clearly unrealistic to Expect Zenimax to create a real situation where enough players were playing to test a live server deployment as none of us are willing to pay for that.

As such, there is a risk something unexpected will happen creating a minor inconvenience for us. It is life so we should move on and look forward to Zenimax correcting the issue and us getting to enjoy the game. Complaining will not change anything.

ResidentContrarian

SainguinKrist wrote: »

I think you're not giving enough understanding to the fact that they can't possibly foresee every issue with a major patch release.

They try to get as much as they can with the PTS, but the truth is the PTS isn't even a tiny fraction of the games Live server population.

When patches go live there are exponentially more people connecting, interacting with, and exposing what could be issues.

ZOS did their best, and they had to take the game down for a few hours to fix a database issue.

I'm sure they want us ingame just as bad as we want to be ingame.

There is no incentive to test PTS though, and also time is not free. Storage and bandwith to keep PTS on and use it are also both not free.

That said, most feedback does not seem to be implemented or addressed (likely due to dev cycle),giving the feeling your comments mean little to nothing.

A lot of players on live are not aware that PTS even exists.

doabhi

When i logged in for the first time after the patch just before the maintenance, i got the message "Transfer Failed" When loading my character the first try, So yes, while it's quite annoying that i have to wait even longer to dive in the the new DLC, i'd rather wait than have my hard work tossed in to the void by a technical issue with the transit of internal character data not working as it should.

Be patient and don't be a karen.

neferpitou73

Browiseth wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

If ZOS didn’t see it coming that this would happen again

didn't see what coming? you make it sound like every time zenimax have had to take the server down for any reason, it's always the exact same literal reason

networking architecture is unbelievably complex, and i can guarantee you that every day at the office revolves around an entirely new issue that the devs have never seen before, requiring them to re-invent the wheel every update, so to speak

you can't just try and simplify it to "how did you not expect server issues and prepare in advance zenizos" because they have no way of predicting every single specific issue that will inevitably arise each update

yes it sucks you can't play the game for a few hours, but it would suck a lot more if something catastrophic happened like trying to play with 9999999999 ping for hours on end or worst case scenario your character data being rolled back suddenly

Dude this happens almost literally every patch. It's basically a meme now

AvalonRanger

Browiseth : wrote
"...sometimes the best way to test if something is working properly is to put
it under the realistic amount of stress it will experience day to day"

Basically agree, but not for ZOS. When I was beta tester in 2014. ZOS did much of unprofessional work,
and spread out their shameful display all over the world through the youtuber critics.

Hope ZOS that improve their business attitude more better. Very please.