I'd kind of like to just be an "Adventurer", instead of being a SPECIFIC class with SPECIFIC spells

Terin

As someone else commented, I think the Warden is a great example of what I mean.

Like... first off, what the hell IS a "Warden"? Why do they have Ice powers, but them mushrooms and summon Cliff racers? It doesn't feel like there's enough Lore there to really "bring everything together" for me. But it's also not SO generic, I can completely "make my own character", either.

By making things a little more interchangeable, even if certain skills were mutually exclusive, I feel like you'd really get the best of both worlds. You could totally afford to have skill-lines that are VERY specific, but since players aren't locked-in, they can kind of "roleplay" whoever they feel like their character should be.

Again, just my two cents. I'm certainly not holding my breath, just saying it's something that at least goes through my mind whenever I try playing the game again.

FelisCatus

Same, class system sucks.

barney2525

I dabble in FFXIV and SWTOR and used to do a bit of Black Desert. They all have Very defined Classes, Very defined races, and Very narrow scope of what you are Required to do. You want to play Paladin? You MUST be a Tank. Thats all the skills/powers/abilities allow. Is this what you want?

ESO decided to appeal to as large a number of players as they can. Lots of different players with their own personal preferences, playing a game the way the Player wants to, without being restricted by their selection of Race or Class. You want to play Magica Imperial? It works. You can succeed. High Elf or Breton Stamina character. Do it. They won't be Meta, but they will do just fine.

This flexibility requires that you do Not pigeon-hole any Race or Class into specific roles.

PrimusTiberius

Playing the SIMS would be a good start........................

Hexvaldr

You make some interesting points but I agree that you're not gonna get them to change the core way the game works. Classes are here to stay.

FelisCatus

PrimusTiberius wrote: »

Playing the SIMS would be a good start........................

[Snip]. So if people like that they should just go play Sims right? Morrowind/Oblivion/Daggerfall all games which I've played had a class system yes but they did not lock you out of other playstyles all it did was just boost your starting stats. It's stupid to think that your character can not change overtime or learn new things. Hell even the Breton hero rogue from the trailers started as what appears to be a nightblade only to become a necromancer later on.

[Edited for bait]

KingArthasMenethil

FelisCatus wrote: »

PrimusTiberius wrote: »

Playing the SIMS would be a good start........................

[Snip]. So if people like that they should just go play Sims right? Morrowind/Oblivion/Daggerfall all games which I've played had class system yes but they did not lock you out of other playstyles all it did was just boost your starting stats. It's stupid to think that your character can not change overtime or learn new things. Hell even the Breton hero rogue from the trailers started as what appears to be a nightblade only to become a necromancer later on.

Dude just has a lich curse because he died after the Deedra took control of him
.
ESOs classes don't lock out playstyes because like the SP games you are not locked out of equipment as you can pick up a bow, you can pick up a destruction staff and etc.
Though classes did rather make you play towards the major/minor skills or you wouldn't level up otherwise what was the point in taking the class to begin with for the character other then avoiding Oblivions terrible vanilla scaling balance.

Classes are also a game balance thing so things the game doesn't end up looking the same in the end with different players all homogenized rendering all the effort into the other skills pointless. As the SP doesn't really bother much for Balance (Hello Oblivions scaling) nor for class style abilities as they really just do the generic spells outside of Skyrims Necromancy spells to help them raise a family.

[Edited quote]

Amottica

fizzylu wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Like or dislike the class system, it will not be going away. The difference between ESO and other TES games is this game is designed to be an MMORPG, and class systems are part of such designs in any game worthy of being played.

That is definitely just your opinion haha my most played games right now are ones that have no classes; Albion Online, New World, and RuneScape xD I actually think classes are kind of outdated for MMOs at this point, especially if the game doesn't even have a good class system to begin with *cough* ESO *cough*. Like call me crazy, but I don't think anyone is playing ESO because of the classes. I've never met anyone that said "oh yeah man, (insert any class) in ESO are the coolest thing ever". Not even the most hardcore, will die on this hill, ESO player I know haha this friend of mine actually prefers FFXIV's classes; specifically red mage, dragoon, and astrologian. These are all very unique classes that aren't only different compared to other MMOs classes, but are even entirely different experiences within the game itself.
I will always be one to say that ESO is severely held back by it's class system and should have never implemented one to begin with. The way the game functions doesn't allow for interesting and diverse play between them like in games like WoW, FFXIV, and GW2. Like seriously, you can't even be a proper spellcaster in ESO.... and I actually think this is the only MMO I can say that about.
And I don't really think it's too late to do something like removing classes. I definitely don't see it happening though, but that's only because I don't believe Zenimax would ever put that type of effort in and properly overhaul their combat system.... which is actually quite needed and I think many would agree at this point.

Yes, it is my opinion but one that is solidly based on both ESO's design and the standard MMORPG genre design. I am sure there is an MMORPG out there that does not have a defined class system but I have not heard of one as of yet. Maybe someday this will change but there is not a sign it will anytime soon in a major MMORPG title.

Albion Online, Runescape, and New World are not truly MMORPGs even though some call themselves such. They are what the industry considered a multiplayer games because they work with small server populations whereas a Massively Multiplayer Role Playing Game has a massive population per server. (link provided to demonstrate this is not my opinion) An example is that AGS caps the NW servers population at a mere 2500 players. There are a lot of multiplayer games out there and it is common for them to not have a defined class system.

fizzylu

Amottica wrote: »

Albion Online, Runescape, and New World are not truly MMORPGs even though some call themselves such. They are what the industry considered a multiplayer games because they work with small server populations whereas a Massively Multiplayer Role Playing Game has a massive population per server. (link provided to demonstrate this is not my opinion) An example is that AGS caps the NW servers population at a mere 2500 players. There are a lot of multiplayer games out there and it is common for them to not have a defined class system.

Okay.... anyone who thinks of Albion Online, New World, and RuneScape are going to call them MMOs. Them having smaller servers instead of some laggy mega server doesn't make them any less of an MMO and the games very much target the same audience as ESO.... so yeah, I have no idea what "major" MMORPG supremacy outlook you have here.... but I guess agree to disagree haha

Amottica

fizzylu wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Albion Online, Runescape, and New World are not truly MMORPGs even though some call themselves such. They are what the industry considered a multiplayer games because they work with small server populations whereas a Massively Multiplayer Role Playing Game has a massive population per server. (link provided to demonstrate this is not my opinion) An example is that AGS caps the NW servers population at a mere 2500 players. There are a lot of multiplayer games out there and it is common for them to not have a defined class system.

Okay.... anyone who thinks of Albion Online, New World, and RuneScape are going to call them MMOs. Them having smaller servers instead of some laggy mega server doesn't make them any less of an MMO and the games very much target the same audience as ESO.... so yeah, I have no idea what "major" MMORPG supremacy outlook you have here.... but I guess agree to disagree haha

I provided a link showing the defining aspect of an MMO. So this is not my opinion buy more of a genre standard.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I merely pointed out a common point of what is typically considered an MMORPG and that the class system here will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

codestripper

https://eso-hub.com/en/builds/codestripper/415344c0-e372-4a9e-82db-da9e0ad6c142/classless-stamina-dps-build-for-pve
(No class skills or passives)
Here, play without a class, have fun. I use this myself and it's really fun to play

fizzylu

Amottica wrote: »

I provided a link showing the defining aspect of an MMO. So this is not my opinion buy more of a genre standard.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I merely pointed out a common point of what is typically considered an MMORPG and that the class system here will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

This is the first line of that Wikipedia page.... which mind you, is never a good source for information anyway:
A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG or more commonly MMO) is an online video game with a large numbers of players, often hundreds or thousands, on the same server.
This does not mean it needs to have ONE server because if we were following that logic even WoW wouldn't be an MMORPG and most MMOs are modeled after WoW so uh, yeah.... wouldn't really make sense to say that. It really just means that the server(s) need hundreds or thousands of players on said server OR servers. All of the games I listed do in fact have hundreds to thousands of players per server. Albion Online even actually IS a game with a mega server just like ESO.
Also.... I think when people (and even the gaming industry) say "multiplayer games" they think of things like Super Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Mortal Kombat, Diablo, and maybe some games like Halo or Dragon Age Inquisition that feature co-op play.... not Albion Online, RuneScape, and New World.

TaSheen

Is there a real point to splitting hairs over the definition of MMO? I'd figure the only definition that matters is the one the game's (whichever game) devs go with.

fizzylu

TaSheen wrote: »

Is there a real point to splitting hairs over the definition of MMO? I'd figure the only definition that matters is the one the game's (whichever game) devs go with.

I mean, that's what I'm saying haha but I couldn't stand someone trying to say that other games weren't a valid comparison because they're "not actually MMOs" because that's just a weird (and not even correct) way to excuse some poorly made choices in the designing of ESO.

TaSheen

Well, moderating "tone" on both sides would seem to be of more value than drawing a hard line in Elsweyr's sands. There are as many definitions as there are games and their developers - and really the only one that counts here is the one ESO's devs provide.

And "poorly made choices" have also to do with what the engine was back then, and is today, capable of - or not. Most of us wish there was a newer more advanced engine. But y'know, it is what it is at this point in time.

danno8

barney2525 wrote: »

I dabble in FFXIV and SWTOR and used to do a bit of Black Desert. They all have Very defined Classes, Very defined races, and Very narrow scope of what you are Required to do. You want to play Paladin? You MUST be a Tank. Thats all the skills/powers/abilities allow. Is this what you want?

ESO decided to appeal to as large a number of players as they can. Lots of different players with their own personal preferences, playing a game the way the Player wants to, without being restricted by their selection of Race or Class. You want to play Magica Imperial? It works. You can succeed. High Elf or Breton Stamina character. Do it. They won't be Meta, but they will do just fine.

This flexibility requires that you do Not pigeon-hole any Race or Class into specific roles.

Except in FFXIV you can switch to any class (job) with the click of a button on the same character, and any race works with any job there as well.

The way FF14 does this is more restricted (or defined to use a better term) and yet more freedom at the same time. It's one thing that I believe they do better over there since it allows true flavour of classes with different mechanics, looks, and styles while still allowing you to "play as you want" as long as you level other jobs.

Terin

While I'm honestly pretty intrigued by the announced Arcanist, there's still a large part of me that feels like the existing Class options are -- at least for me -- holding the game back, in some regards.

I know that the gameplay of each class is fairly flexible, but it still leaves you firmly locked into a very specific "theme". If I start playing as a Templar, I'm *always* going to be using bright-yellow spells. I don't even fully know what the lore is behind the Templar class, or if it's even one I necessarily relate to.

Honestly, I wish we had a more traditional "Mage" class, that weaved together all three main elements; Frost, Flame, and Shock magic. It always feels weird to me that the Sorcerer only wields Shock damage, with the other two skill-lines both being dedicated to much more morally-questionable schools of Dark magic and summoning Daedra.

But honestly, for me I kind of wish I could just play a true "adventurer/explorer". Someone who isn't just kind of "a regular person", who only learns abilities as *I* learn them, from interacting with various cultures or joining appropriate guilds. I was to actually *play* my character's origin, instead of just learning seemingly-random abilities completely unprompted, simply because I clicked a particular checkbox at character creation.

To me, it just leaves the classes feeling a bit hollow. Now again, I'm pretty excited that the Arcanist seems to have a much more clearly-defined "theme" to it. But it still seems pretty specific, and it seems like it would play to ESO's strengths more to just be "a regular person" until *you* learn new skills or spells, based on what you're actually choosing to do.

Lauranae

barney2525 wrote: »

Terin wrote: »

Honestly, I don't really like the Class system for ESO. Not just it being a tad restrictive, but also I feel like it undermines a lot of what make the Elder Scrolls games so iconic; that you truly BECOME whatever character you want, as opposed to "creating something and never really changing".

For example, what if you simply starts as an Adventurer, literally zero "powers" whatsoever? You just equip armor and weapons, and hope for the best.

But then you begin LEARNING abilities. You meet an NPC that agrees to instruct you in the art of Necromancy. You join the Thieves Guild or the Morag Tong for teachings on becoming one with the shadows. You join the Mage's Guild to begin learning to wield powers of the arcane. You learn ancient Fire magic from the Dunmer of Morrowind, inspired by their homeland.

I really see no downside to this. But it not only gives you ABSOLUTE flexibility of playing your class, but also presumably makes it easier for the devs to consider ADDING additional new powers. For example, perhaps the Bretons have cultivated their own, slightly unique way of wielding magic. Perhaps the Nords of Skyrim are willing to teach you to use the Voice of Dovahkiin, or even a particular brand of ice magic.

All this is to say, create YOUR character as you see fit, instead of having to pick from a template.

Just my two cents.

So you gotta pick a class ... which apparently is Horribly restrictive and " makes " you play the character a certain way ?? I suppose each class limits your choice of armor - oh wait, no it doesn't. Well, it limits your weapons to that specific class - oh wait, no it doesn't. Well, it forces you to do required quests always in the same order... oh wait, no it doesn't. Well, it restricts you to specific zones ... oh wait, no it doesn't. Well, specific classes are denied access to abilities like stealing, psijic powers, vampire and werewolf, antiquities etc.. oh wait, no they aren't.

Well, the class dictates how I Must play the character, rather than how I Want to play the character.

oh wait, no it doesn't

Actually some passives abilities classes forces you toward some type of armor or weapons
as i learned today, for example, my stamina NB can benefit of a passif IF i wear Heavy armor only. But if i do that, then i will loose some in the medium type no ?