Expansions are Misleading

Adam_Chattaway

When you for example look at the new expansion it says in what you get "Legacy of the Bretons Year Long Adventure" In the description it says "Told across three dlc's and the high isle chapter"
Many people will take this as you get a year long adventure of 3 dlcs and chapter like some sort of season pass. When in fact you have to buy or sub the dlc on top of paying for a full price expansion seems a bit shady and wrong.

A WOW or FFXIV expansion will cost the same price as ESO but where eso gives you 1 zone and no dungeons games like ffxiv will be 10-18 dungeons, multiple raids, FIVE! or more Zones. Is ESO just milking us more than the dairylea cow?

Hvíthákarl

WoW and FFXIV are pay to play so they better offer a lot more content if they expect people to choose them over a b2p. Not a good comparison imo

Mr_Stach

WoW and FFXIV both have mandatory Subs.

You can Sub and just buy the Chapter OR buy everything seperate.

I think the ESO+ Model is a pretty good deal, it has a bunch of perks. WoW on the other hand you just get to play the game at all.

Also something else to consider is WoW launches an Expac, everything before it is dead, there's no point in going back because the gear is below in power to the new things.

ESO has all content Current. So 10 Trials (both Normal & Vet), 48 Dungeons (Normal & Vet), also the 3 Arenas, then add in what High Isle is bringing.

What's worth it to you is personal preference, but I think generally ESO tops WoW in current playable content as well as general content release cadence.

I can't speak too much on FFXIV, but as someone who plays WoW and ESO, that's my experience.

Adam_Chattaway

Mr_Stach wrote: »

WoW and FFXIV both have mandatory Subs.

You can Sub and just buy the Chapter OR buy everything seperate.

I think the ESO+ Model is a pretty good deal, it has a bunch of perks. WoW on the other hand you just get to play the game at all.

Also something else to consider is WoW launches an Expac, everything before it is dead, there's no point in going back because the gear is below in power to the new things.

ESO has all content Current. So 10 Trials (both Normal & Vet), 48 Dungeons (Normal & Vet), also the 3 Arenas, then add in what High Isle is bringing.

What's worth it to you is personal preference, but I think generally ESO tops WoW in current playable content as well as general content release cadence.

I can't speak too much on FFXIV, but as someone who plays WoW and ESO, that's my experience.

I'd argue ESO+ is a must. I literally cannot play the game without the craft bag. In 2 weeks of playing my guild bank was filled up to 380 items, my bank was full and questing for 30 min would fill my bags up with all sorts. so imo eso forces you to sub almost if you play it often.

I've played ESO since day one and never done a trial. I can't find a group to do them with. there is no group finder like wow and no party listing system like ffxiv. ESO makes its endgame content very hard to make groups for people outside of specific guilds etc.

zaria

WOW expansions is only every 2 year. Simpler graphic and little voice acting make them faster to make.

Mr_Stach

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

WoW and FFXIV both have mandatory Subs.

You can Sub and just buy the Chapter OR buy everything seperate.

I think the ESO+ Model is a pretty good deal, it has a bunch of perks. WoW on the other hand you just get to play the game at all.

Also something else to consider is WoW launches an Expac, everything before it is dead, there's no point in going back because the gear is below in power to the new things.

ESO has all content Current. So 10 Trials (both Normal & Vet), 48 Dungeons (Normal & Vet), also the 3 Arenas, then add in what High Isle is bringing.

What's worth it to you is personal preference, but I think generally ESO tops WoW in current playable content as well as general content release cadence.

I can't speak too much on FFXIV, but as someone who plays WoW and ESO, that's my experience.

I'd argue ESO+ is a must. I literally cannot play the game without the craft bag. In 2 weeks of playing my guild bank was filled up to 380 items, my bank was full and questing for 30 min would fill my bags up with all sorts. so imo eso forces you to sub almost if you play it often.

I've played ESO since day one and never done a trial. I can't find a group to do them with. there is no group finder like wow and no party listing system like ffxiv. ESO makes its endgame content very hard to make groups for people outside of specific guilds etc.

That's fair, Craft Bag is certainly a huge perk, but there are people who make do without.

I'll suggest what I always suggest to people who have a hard time finding groups, join an active guild. Would it be cool to have a built in group finder? Definitely. And if you really want, there are lfg discord out there. But having a good guild is often a better experience because it's consistent.

Lysette

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

WoW and FFXIV both have mandatory Subs.

You can Sub and just buy the Chapter OR buy everything seperate.

I think the ESO+ Model is a pretty good deal, it has a bunch of perks. WoW on the other hand you just get to play the game at all.

Also something else to consider is WoW launches an Expac, everything before it is dead, there's no point in going back because the gear is below in power to the new things.

ESO has all content Current. So 10 Trials (both Normal & Vet), 48 Dungeons (Normal & Vet), also the 3 Arenas, then add in what High Isle is bringing.

What's worth it to you is personal preference, but I think generally ESO tops WoW in current playable content as well as general content release cadence.

I can't speak too much on FFXIV, but as someone who plays WoW and ESO, that's my experience.

I'd argue ESO+ is a must. I literally cannot play the game without the craft bag. In 2 weeks of playing my guild bank was filled up to 380 items, my bank was full and questing for 30 min would fill my bags up with all sorts. so imo eso forces you to sub almost if you play it often.

I've played ESO since day one and never done a trial. I can't find a group to do them with. there is no group finder like wow and no party listing system like ffxiv. ESO makes its endgame content very hard to make groups for people outside of specific guilds etc.

I agree about ESO+ - it is terrible without it - a few days without it and you will be convinced, to sub again. I have played subscription games before and don't mind it. That part of the game, which I'm playing works quite well and is a quality product. Of course that might be a different thing for people, who enjoy different content than I do. So far I do not understand how the new game is played - from watching those streams, I couldn't get it. But I like, that we get something like this, I would even have enjoyed a much simpler game like farkle in KCD. But I will see about the new game, I just hope the tutorial will explain it in a way, which makes it easily accessible - those streams ZOS put forward didn't do that job very well.

Edit: well, there is a tutorial video now.

Artim_X

If that's the quote you're using, then ZOS is being pretty clear of what you need to get to access the entire year of content (three separate DLCs and a chapter).

tohopka_eso

I play FFXIV and ESO. I prefer ESO expansion though, FFXIV does one every two years and releases fragments to the player base. With ESO I know what I'm getting for the year, FFXIV though things change not enough to omg what did they do to my job I been playing.

Adam_Chattaway

Artim_X wrote: »

If that's the quote you're using, then ZOS is being pretty clear of what you need to get to access the entire year of content (three separate DLCs and a chapter).

Why in the list of content given on the EXPANSION is the year long adventure listed? as part of the content included with the expansion? go in game and open the store and go to chapters, see it gives you a list of everything included with the expansion. the year long adventure is listed there. it should not be listed there at all, as it's separate dlc and does not come with the expansion you're buying.

Mr_Stach

I mean if you look at the site, it's pretty clear exactly what you're getting.

The year long story is just saying that the entire year of 2022 will be "Legacy of the Breton" Themed. It's a Theme Park, you paid for entry, but you still gotta pay for your Rides my dude.

Ragnarok0130

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

I've played ESO since day one and never done a trial. I can't find a group to do them with. there is no group finder like wow and no party listing system like ffxiv. ESO makes its endgame content very hard to make groups for people outside of specific guilds etc.

@Adam_Chattaway hang out in Craglorn and you can get into normal PUG trials. Also check out ESOU’s Project Vitality as they are hosting trial teaching runs. It’s a great experience

Mr_Stach

That's fair. But almost all of the Story is in High Isle. Ascending Tides are Purely leading up to High Isle. Even the typical big conclusion Winter Story DLC will be just Tying up High Isle loose threads as per usual.

They should probably word that better though.

Adam_Chattaway

Mr_Stach wrote: »

That's fair. But almost all of the Story is in High Isle. Ascending Tides are Purely leading up to High Isle. Even the typical big conclusion Winter Story DLC will be just Tying up High Isle loose threads as per usual.

They should probably word that better though.

I hate the way eso does dungeons though. SWTOR had it right when people had to wait for you to read the story if you were new. i've not done dungeons in ages as people just rush through them refuse to wait and ruin it. when i go normal thinking this would help that was even worse 2600 cp players doing normal as fast as they could. when i said i wanted to read the quests they told me to skip it and watch a youtube video. I wish there was a solo mode without loot for every dungeon.

whitecrow

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

When you for example look at the new expansion it says in what you get "Legacy of the Bretons Year Long Adventure" In the description it says "Told across three dlc's and the high isle chapter"
Many people will take this as you get a year long adventure of 3 dlcs and chapter like some sort of season pass. When in fact you have to buy or sub the dlc on top of paying for a full price expansion seems a bit shady and wrong.

I was under this misapprehension for a while, due to the fact that I was a plus subscriber when they implemented this format.

I do think it is lame to charge what they do for an expansion and only get part of the story.

DMuehlhausen

Every marketing ploy is going to be based assuming you have ESO+. That's how they make their money, or you buying it from the crown store.

As others have said WoW and FFXIV don't give you the option so they put more in.

DigiAngel

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

WoW and FFXIV both have mandatory Subs.

I'd argue ESO+ is a must. I literally cannot play the game without the craft bag.

And I would argue in the other way....at 8 character slots (actually 7 as I have one left) I've been enjoying ESO without the plus for a while now. I've purchased several chapters and whatnot, but I believe it might equal maybe one year of ESO+. I average about 150-200 items in the bank...and that's being lazy and not selling things.

Amottica

Hvíthákarl wrote: »

WoW and FFXIV are pay to play so they better offer a lot more content if they expect people to choose them over a b2p. Not a good comparison imo

While I agree that the sentence OP brings up is misleading, what ESO releases in a year is more than what FF14 and WoW release averaged out to a year.

In fact, ESO surpasses FF14 easily as FF14 has only released 5 expansions/DLCs and is slightly older than ESO. That is
not even one every two years. WoW is not much better than that.

ESO wins

Adam_Chattaway

Amottica wrote: »

Hvíthákarl wrote: »

WoW and FFXIV are pay to play so they better offer a lot more content if they expect people to choose them over a b2p. Not a good comparison imo

While I agree that the sentence OP brings up is misleading, what ESO releases in a year is more than what FF14 and WoW release averaged out to a year.

In fact, ESO surpasses FF14 easily as FF14 has only released 5 expansions/DLCs and is slightly older than ESO. That is
not even one every two years. WoW is not much better than that.

ESO wins

It seems like an ESO expansion though is just a super expensive DLC zone? It comes with no dungeons, just the zone. dungeons are 2 dlc packs, and a 3rd dlc pack is another zone. so in reality an ESO expansion is just 1 dlc zone thats much more expensive?

SainguinKrist

It seems like you're also completely ignoring the fact that ESO releases all of that content on a yearly and quarterly basis.

Please name all that content WoW and XIV are putting out at such a quick pace? Oh. They aren't?

Almost like that's the difference right there and you specifically left it out to make it look like ESO's content releases aren't up to par with WoW or XIV.

Even though we get much more consistent content releases than just about any MMO on the market.

Adam_Chattaway

SainguinKrist wrote: »

It seems like you're also completely ignoring the fact that ESO releases all of that content on a yearly and quarterly basis.

Please name all that content WoW and XIV are putting out at such a quick pace? Oh. They aren't?

Almost like that's the difference right there and you specifically left it out to make it look like ESO's content releases aren't up to par with WoW or XIV.

Even though we get much more consistent content releases than just about any MMO on the market.

FFXIV releases new patches around every 3 months the same as eso which contain new story, dungeons, raids, beast tribes, pvp and many other things. And their 2 year expansionsnare around 5 or 6 zones with a big main story. Over 2 years eso may have released the same amount of zones but not dungeons or endgame content like raids and challenging modes and we have to but it very expensively or sub to access it.

The crown store prices are getting out of hand though... 3.5k for a statue and mounts? Limiting items, removing them... like the other day I saw a nord in skyrim woth an amazing female hairstyle like short and swept behind ear. I really wanted it. I could not find it so I google it and it was sold for like 3 days a year ago... like wtf is the point in that?

Gaebriel0410

As someone who has played FF14 and WoW, I always thought the former's content release cadence is actually pretty similar to ESO. Very steady and predictable, which is good imo, since you always know (approximately) what you're getting.

Though really, in comparison to ESO, FF14 zones are tiny and generic. They're not bad, some are pretty cool actually, but they really don't hold up to even vanilla ESO zones for me. Even FF14 main cities have like several loading/transition screens inbetween, you can run for like 15 secs and you see the dreaded dotted line. If you thought Blackwood was empty, you're in for a surprise.

In ESO I gotta sub when I have no bag space. But in FF14, besides having to do so to even play, I gotta sub or they demolish my house. Suffice to say I never got into housing in that game, as that is the nastiest 'subscription trap' I have ever seen in any MMO. Let alone them having an extensive cash shop, on top of needing to sub, to play. Oh, and the outfits and mounts in said shop aren't accountwide, unless you pay more (in the case of mounts, which is only a fairly recent feature).

FF14 is great fun (though a very different style game), but it's not the holy land of MMO's it's often made out to be on other MMO forums.

Adam_Chattaway

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

As someone who has played FF14 and WoW, I always thought the former's content release cadence is actually pretty similar to ESO. Very steady and predictable, which is good imo, since you always know (approximately) what you're getting.

Though really, in comparison to ESO, FF14 zones are tiny and generic. They're not bad, some are pretty cool actually, but they really don't hold up to even vanilla ESO zones for me. Even FF14 main cities have like several loading/transition screens inbetween, you can run for like 15 secs and you see the dreaded dotted line. If you thought Blackwood was empty, you're in for a surprise.

In ESO I gotta sub when I have no bag space. But in FF14, besides having to do so to even play, I gotta sub or they demolish my house. Suffice to say I never got into housing in that game, as that is the nastiest 'subscription trap' I have ever seen in any MMO. Let alone them having an extensive cash shop, on top of needing to sub, to play. Oh, and the outfits and mounts in said shop aren't accountwide, unless you pay more (in the case of mounts, which is only a fairly recent feature).

FF14 is great fun (though a very different style game), but it's not the holy land of MMO's it's often made out to be on other MMO forums.

What I like about FF is I played it since launch, made 1 char and never needed to ever make another. All classes, crafting jobs on 1 char. everyone knows me by my 1 name. i don't have to make up 20 random crappy names i dislike just to play an alt class. eso has soo much to do and collect i will never make an alt in eso as if a new class comes out and i want to main it I've literally lost everything and it would be like restarting from day 1. which is crazy because ES has always been about making your own class as you go so I dislike eso doing a wow based class system instead of a everyone makes a blank chart and picks their skills as they go. ESO could have even done a FF style switch class system but on my main templar I've got 42 days playtime and I'm not doing that all over again just to play a new class. FF respects your time, eso does not. I've never used the FFXIV cash shop though I just know they sell some silly mounts and cosmetics from past events which is actually a good idea if you missed them but ESO cash shop sells summon able merchants, auction houses, banks, armoury, deconstructs which is making me think ESO creates a problem to sell the solution. FFXIV housing system is a joke though. even LOTRO can give every player a house...

Gaebriel0410

I'm the other way around, as I like making different characters with different races and archetypes, so I hated the single character focus of FF14.

It's funny as I always thought FF14 didn't respect my time in that regard, having to do the main story on every character to unlock even the most basic stuff. So for those who like having multiple characters, FF14 created a problem to sell you the solution.. twice. One for the level skip, and one for the story skip.

You don't need 42 days to make a new class in ESO though? Unless you are never skipping dialogue and want to do full zone completion of course, but none of that is necessary to enjoy playing a fully leveled new class.

Adam_Chattaway

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

I'm the other way around, as I like making different characters with different races and archetypes, so I hated the single character focus of FF14.

It's funny as I always thought FF14 didn't respect my time in that regard, having to do the main story on every character to unlock even the most basic stuff. So for those who like having multiple characters, FF14 created a problem to sell you the solution.. twice. One for the level skip, and one for the story skip.

You don't need 42 days to make a new class in ESO though? Unless you are never skipping dialogue and want to do full zone completion of course, but none of that is necessary to enjoy playing a fully leveled new class.

I'd say that's the minority though of people wanting to remake a new char and do everything again just to look different playing x class. I'm a Miqote samurai, paladin, summoner, sage, dragoon. I like my char, its how i made her and she looks great as every class. when an expansion comes out with a new class i can play that class without restarting the game. FFXIV is made and designed to be played that way. hence the cheaper 1 char only sub option. i don't think I know anyone with more than 1 char at all tbh. so where FFXIV may be a pain for those wanting to make a whole new char ESO is 100x worse for anyone making another class or new class.

jaws343

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Hvíthákarl wrote: »

WoW and FFXIV are pay to play so they better offer a lot more content if they expect people to choose them over a b2p. Not a good comparison imo

While I agree that the sentence OP brings up is misleading, what ESO releases in a year is more than what FF14 and WoW release averaged out to a year.

In fact, ESO surpasses FF14 easily as FF14 has only released 5 expansions/DLCs and is slightly older than ESO. That is
not even one every two years. WoW is not much better than that.

ESO wins

It seems like an ESO expansion though is just a super expensive DLC zone? It comes with no dungeons, just the zone. dungeons are 2 dlc packs, and a 3rd dlc pack is another zone. so in reality an ESO expansion is just 1 dlc zone thats much more expensive?

Just comparing the content in an expansion zone like Blackood, and a DLC zone like Deadlands, you can see this statement pretty false. The expansion zones have more than double the content of the DLC zones, just in WB, Delves, and Public dungeons alone. The expansion zones have hours and hours of more questing content. They all have a trial. They have all had some sort of additional content, whether you like that content or not, from Psijic order, to Antiquities, to the card game coming up, and even the exclusive BGs when that chapter launched.

Adam_Chattaway

jaws343 wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Hvíthákarl wrote: »

WoW and FFXIV are pay to play so they better offer a lot more content if they expect people to choose them over a b2p. Not a good comparison imo

While I agree that the sentence OP brings up is misleading, what ESO releases in a year is more than what FF14 and WoW release averaged out to a year.

In fact, ESO surpasses FF14 easily as FF14 has only released 5 expansions/DLCs and is slightly older than ESO. That is
not even one every two years. WoW is not much better than that.

ESO wins

It seems like an ESO expansion though is just a super expensive DLC zone? It comes with no dungeons, just the zone. dungeons are 2 dlc packs, and a 3rd dlc pack is another zone. so in reality an ESO expansion is just 1 dlc zone thats much more expensive?

Just comparing the content in an expansion zone like Blackood, and a DLC zone like Deadlands, you can see this statement pretty false. The expansion zones have more than double the content of the DLC zones, just in WB, Delves, and Public dungeons alone. The expansion zones have hours and hours of more questing content. They all have a trial. They have all had some sort of additional content, whether you like that content or not, from Psijic order, to Antiquities, to the card game coming up, and even the exclusive BGs when that chapter launched.

Greymoor was 2 big zones in the base expansion, each one seems just as big as blackwood? I recently started greymoor after doing blackwood and deadlands and so far its taken me what seems like longer just to do western skyrim and i'm now just starting on the Caverns. The caverns alone by the looks of it is bigger than the deadlands dlc and this is free with western skyrim.

Gaebriel0410

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

[

I'd say that's the minority though of people wanting to remake a new char and do everything again just to look different playing x class. I'm a Miqote samurai, paladin, summoner, sage, dragoon. I like my char, its how i made her and she looks great as every class. when an expansion comes out with a new class i can play that class without restarting the game. FFXIV is made and designed to be played that way. hence the cheaper 1 char only sub option. i don't think I know anyone with more than 1 char at all tbh. so where FFXIV may be a pain for those wanting to make a whole new char ESO is 100x worse for anyone making another class or new class.[/quote]

But how is it 100x worse? Leveling a new char in ESO is relatively fast, and you can make it as varied or grindy as you want, and you probably have at least a bunch of xp scrolls with the rate they throw them at you.

In FF14 even leveling an additional job/class for the same character is a slow grind. Since the level appropriate quests are mostly already completed, the beast dailies are repetitive and the fate events don't give much xp either. The hunt log and the daily dungeon roulettes are the only things that give you a reasonable amount of XP for your time spent. Not to mention that it takes ages to get to the fun class skills, as those are all heavily skewed to higher levels. I mean, I know since I've done it.

Adam_Chattaway

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

[

I'd say that's the minority though of people wanting to remake a new char and do everything again just to look different playing x class. I'm a Miqote samurai, paladin, summoner, sage, dragoon. I like my char, its how i made her and she looks great as every class. when an expansion comes out with a new class i can play that class without restarting the game. FFXIV is made and designed to be played that way. hence the cheaper 1 char only sub option. i don't think I know anyone with more than 1 char at all tbh. so where FFXIV may be a pain for those wanting to make a whole new char ESO is 100x worse for anyone making another class or new class.

But how is it 100x worse? Leveling a new char in ESO is relatively fast, and you can make it as varied or grindy as you want, and you probably have at least a bunch of xp scrolls with the rate they throw them at you.

In FF14 even leveling an additional job/class for the same character is a slow grind. Since the level appropriate quests are mostly already completed, the beast dailies are repetitive and the fate events don't give much xp either. The hunt log and the daily dungeon roulettes are the only things that give you a reasonable amount of XP for your time spent. Not to mention that it takes ages to get to the fun class skills, as those are all heavily skewed to higher levels. I mean, I know since I've done it. [/quote]

I'm a completionist. I like to do every quest, zone, lore book, sky shard etc etc etc etc in eso case etc etc etc etc and more etc this is eso so a bit more etc etc.... you get my point. So i play my templar for years and do all the content i come across then one day a new class comes out (warden/necro) I make one. I have 0 zones done, 0 skyshards found, no quests completed. So even though i get dungeon spam my way to max level in a day or two i feel like its an empty shell of a char missing all content ive done, all antiquties ive found. i get many people just rush to endgame in mmos these days and only care about raiding or pvp and literally despise any content before endgame but for me it ruins the game.

FFXIV gives you a huge XP bonus to any class under the level of your highest main class so making an alt gives a huge xp bonus so running palace of the dead and dungeons can get to max level in a week or less and your world progress is all kept.

ElvenOverlord

Amottica wrote: »

Hvíthákarl wrote: »

WoW and FFXIV are pay to play so they better offer a lot more content if they expect people to choose them over a b2p. Not a good comparison imo

While I agree that the sentence OP brings up is misleading, what ESO releases in a year is more than what FF14 and WoW release averaged out to a year.

In fact, ESO surpasses FF14 easily as FF14 has only released 5 expansions/DLCs and is slightly older than ESO. That is
not even one every two years. WoW is not much better than that.

ESO wins

Nah. That's why ESO's storylines are generic, repetitive, and stale cause they churning them out every year. FFXIV has more complex and in-depth characters and storyline.

Amottica

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Hvíthákarl wrote: »

WoW and FFXIV are pay to play so they better offer a lot more content if they expect people to choose them over a b2p. Not a good comparison imo

While I agree that the sentence OP brings up is misleading, what ESO releases in a year is more than what FF14 and WoW release averaged out to a year.

In fact, ESO surpasses FF14 easily as FF14 has only released 5 expansions/DLCs and is slightly older than ESO. That is
not even one every two years. WoW is not much better than that.

ESO wins

It seems like an ESO expansion though is just a super expensive DLC zone? It comes with no dungeons, just the zone. dungeons are 2 dlc packs, and a 3rd dlc pack is another zone. so in reality an ESO expansion is just 1 dlc zone thats much more expensive?

Yes but they seem to have added value items that are not found in regular DLCs. He trial, classes, skill lines, and this year the game. Granted, I am not interested in this new mini game but it is one of the added value items.

I’d also point out that games like FF14 ans WoW require players to pay a subscription on top of buying the expansion. If you cancel your subscription you no longer have access to the expansion or any other part of the game. That is unlesss they changed something since I came to ESO.