Crown gifting scammers: Need for secure transfers & suggestions.

Xinihp

Crown gifting has been used as a means of exchanging in-game gold for crown items since its inception. For the most part this has been a boon to the ESO community as those with excess crowns can trade for gold, and those with excess gold can acquire crown items. However a problem has come to light which urgently requires attention.

The problem stems from the fact that these exchanges in-game are not done through an interface that is secured and thus, is prone to scamming.

For an example: I recently offered gold in exchange for some crown crates. The person in question took my gold, then promptly logged out without gifting the agreed item, never to be seen again. Obviously this put me off the entire system as who would want to risk getting scammed every time they want to trade some gold for items?

This fear of being scammed (which happened to me on several other occasions and can go both ways, losing crowns or gold), has led to the emergence of certain large "Crown Exchange" sites. These sites started off with the helpful goal of providing an insurance system of sorts. Basically people would pay slightly more than the going rate for crowns, but then would have the trade go through a mediator system which would ensure (reasonably) they were not going to be scammed out of their currency.

This worked OK for a while, although it was largely a solution to a problem that never needed to exist if there were just a way to trade securely in-game. The problem however, is that the price for crown items procured through these exchanges has more than tripled in just under three years, while sources of gold in-game have not, leaving people with little recourse but to just pay the ever-increasing price, risk getting scammed, or abandon the system altogether.

As a crafter with 18 characters I can make somewhere in the neighborhood of 100k gold per day doing crafting writs, plus more if I get lucky with any rare gold material drops. I use addons to auto-craft the items in order to save time, however with login/logout and turn-ins this process still requires close to an hour to complete, and thus I do not have time do do all 18 characters every day. Frequently I will skip it entirely in favor of actually playing the game.

A simply crown item like a personal banker currently costing 5 MILLION GOLD or more through one of these "safe" exchanges is simply not sustainable for me, and I am what many would consider an outlier in my daily gold generation through crafting. I can only imagine how new players must feel.


MY SUGGESTION:

In order to solve the problem of crown exchange scamming, avoid runaway conversion rates excluding the bulk of players, and save ZOS overhead cost processing trouble tickets when people inevitably get scammed, I would like to propose the following simple solution:



By adding a simply "CoD" option to Crown Gifting as already exists for mail, the system could ensure that BOTH parties received the agreed-upon items, and that neither ever risked losing their currency if the other person chose not to pay.

The sender would CoD the crown item for the agreed upon gold, and if the person did not pay that gold before the mail timeout period, the system would refund the crowns to the sender much as items are returned to senders currently if they are not looted from the recipient's mailbox by this time limit.

Such a change would require very little developer time to implement, and yet would add an incredible benefit to players new and old alike.

PS: I hope recounting my personal experience with being repeatedly scammed doesn't make this too verbose but I felt was necessary for background and to clarify the scope of the problem.

@ZOS_GinaBruno could you pretty-please with puppies on top pass this up the chain of command for consideration?

Thanks!

kargen27

The crown items are bought outside the game. This idea would create a headache for ZoS in trying to create a system to return items purchased with crowns. Right now it takes a message or two and a prayer to get crown items returned.

I'm all for it but this isn't as simple to solve as people think.

M0ntie

This is long over due to be implemented. I particularly feel for newer players who get scammed because they don't know how risky this is.
Until its implemented, I'd recommend only selling to trusted people in a guild, or using something like Tamriel Crown Exchange (PC US). The exchange rate is high for crown buyers, but it is safe.

bmnoble

Would rather they allowed crowns to be sold via guild traders or the trade window.

All it takes is some annoying player letting the COD mail just sit in their inbox till it gets returned to troll you.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings!

We have moved this thread to a more appropriate section for better visibility.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

deleted220614-000183

I personally like the idea of making practice of "selling crowns" (more precisely gifting crownstore items for payment in golds) less shadow and more transparent but if I remember ZOS considers it is only deal between players and such deal is never guaranteed.

They probably don't want to take responsibility for such deals and keep official crownstore selling exclusive and the only guaranteed method (it makes sense from my perspective).

So yes, the idea is nice but I think it will never be implemented.

Xinihp

kargen27 wrote: »

The crown items are bought outside the game. This idea would create a headache for ZoS in trying to create a system to return items purchased with crowns. Right now it takes a message or two and a prayer to get crown items returned.

I'm all for it but this isn't as simple to solve as people think.

I'm not sure I understand what difficulty you are attempting to describe here. CROWNS are bought outside the game, that is true. But they are a fairly specific "no refunds" purchase. Are you talking about trying to get crowns back for an item you bought but don't want? Because I don't think this is an issue.

It would simply be a policy that trades between players are not covered for refunds, just like how they already handle gifting trades now. So, there would be no difficulty regarding refunds of any kind. If you "buy" an item from someone with gold, you can't get your gold back through ZOS, and if you "sell" an item to someone for gold through the system, there is no refunding your crowns.

It is up to players to make sure they want to commit to a trade before doing it. Again, just like now.

kargen27

"Are you talking about trying to get crowns back for an item you bought but don't want? Because I don't think this is an issue."

It is the issue. If I strike a deal with you for crown item A and we come to an agreement in price you have to go purchase that item from the crown store. Now you say hey I have crown item A you wanted and I say oh I changed my mind. You are stuck with that item. As the purchase happens outside the game a COD scenario isn't sufficient.

I agree once the transaction takes place it is final. The problem is in designing a way to not let the purchasing player back out after the crown item has been purchased. I would like to see a more secure method in game. I don't think the solution is as simple as some think.

VaranisArano

I'd like ZOS to consider adding a safe, in game way to trade Gifts for Gold. It's worth it to prevent scams.

However, that's not going to do much about the conversion rate, since it's not like the Crown Exchanges can set a rate that the market doesn't support.

HappyDan

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'd like ZOS to consider adding a safe, in game way to trade Gifts for Gold. It's worth it to prevent scams.

However, that's not going to do much about the conversion rate, since it's not like the Crown Exchanges can set a rate that the market doesn't support.

The market supports the rates just because it's safe! If there was an alternative those crazy rates never would have exists. The only inflation that is happening is the crown crate cost and as result increases all in game prices. Crown exchange service get fees, so it's pretty relevant for them to keep hiking the prices.
For example, when you saw 1k ppc on discords, you could buy at 400 ppc in game, now it's hard but managble to find for 1k ppc in game while discords are 2500 ppc at least. It's stupid. Giving us a secure system of trading crowns will kill all of those middleman services that make money out of nothing and will as result break the crown cartel. Anyone who opposes this is probably gaining something from those discords.

Xinihp

HappyDan wrote: »

The market supports the rates just because it's safe! If there was an alternative those crazy rates never would have exists...

Crown exchange service get fees, so it's pretty relevant for them to keep hiking the prices.

Exactly!

Morvan

I totally support this, great idea!

OolongSnakeTea

I mean honestly, if GW2 can have a crown to gold conversion economy built safely in their cash shop then so can ESO. Without making it complicated.

Brrrofski

But the item is "bought" wether they accept it or not.

So the refund would be the item.

Which would probably be a headache, as the payment has been processed through MS by then.

I'm not against it, just don't think it's that simple.

I mean, I don't know why anyone would use crowns before getting the gold anyway. It's a completely illogical way to do the trade.

tsaescishoeshiner

They would sell a lot more Crowns if gifting was more secure. Whales who are willing to spend real money to sell Crowns for gold would be even more able to do so.

As someone who buys Crowns via gifting with gold, I would do it a LOT more often if it was more secure.

JKorr

l have a wonderful guildmaster. She offers an escrow service for anyone in the guild that wants to sell/buy crowns.

Let her know you want X items from the Crown store, and how much you're willing to pay.
Person selling lets her know they're selling and what they are willing to accept.
GM matches sellers and buyers; prices are agreed upon. GM holds the gold until the buyer tells her the gift was received. Last step GM sends the gold to complete the transaction.

I know there are people who don't think guilds have any use beyond trading, but the good ones can be really helpful for more than just trading.