Resolving Vigor and Echoing vigor has the same amount of ticks. WHAT!?!?

Redguards_Revenge

Since I can't keep vigor on the same bar because I have to use camoflauge hunter, I thought "Hey look Echoing Vigor probably ticks more and that's why the time extends. So although Resolving Vigor is 1.5 times stronger and ticks in 4 seconds, using Echoing vigor extends the time and increases the tick and crit potential. "

BOY WAS I WROOOONNGGG

Echoing vigor is weaker than Resolving vigor. For me resolving vigor is 1.5 times stronger than Echoing vigor.
ECHOING VIGOR TICKS THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIMES AS RESOLVING VIGOR. So why are they not the same amount of heal potential?
ECHOING VIGOR TICKS STAY THE SAME UPON INCREASED TIME. So there is no crit potential of multiple ticks. There is no reason why echoing vigor should exist.
ECHOING VIGOR INCREASES THE RANGE BUT ALSO INCREASES THE DURATION...Increased duration with no additional ticks for crit potential.
ECHOING VIGOR IS STACKABLE that does not mean you should keep it the same ticks as resolving vigor and make it weaker than resolving vigor.

Now I have to go invest in a resto staff lol. I am sure in some elitist group echoing vigor was becoming a problem and that's why it was nerfed to oblivion. I find it foolish to ever use such a skill.

5 ticks in 8 seconds or 5 ticks in 10 seconds? You may say "but it's about twice the distance!"

I say neither of them is good and a waste of a slot. Now I have to decide between 12 crit and heals....the answer is crit so now I have a new slot available.

I am a stamplar but living dark is looking pretty good as a replacement...or regen.

coletas

I think you missed that echoing heals others too!

Redguards_Revenge

coletas wrote: »

I think you missed that echoing heals others too!

No I understand that but it still doesn't matter. It's too weak and it's only utility is for 12 man groups. Only a fool would use that in BGs or elsewhere. When there is the far superior resto staff. Maybe in some pve when the person has a flex spot it will be better than nothing. but knowing ESO, echoing vigor over DPS is just not a wise choice.

coletas

Try to stack some hots on a 4 ppl ball and tell me the results dont matter u play all good or bad, just try it there are many little hots you can stack in a group, and with the lag jitter usually are more important than burst healing. In a Dk or a templar works great... But yes, is a team skill... For solo its a non-sense (specially in some classes)

Redguards_Revenge

coletas wrote: »

Try to stack some hots on a 4 ppl ball and tell me the results dont matter u play all good or bad, just try it there are many little hots you can stack in a group, and with the lag jitter usually are more important than burst healing. In a Dk or a templar works great... But yes, is a team skill... For solo its a non-sense (specially in some classes)

Ok but explain me one thing.

The heal amount for vigor and echoing vigor is the same.

Vigor 8 seconds 5 ticks 8 meters
Echoing vigor 10 seconds 5 ticks 15 meters

Healing is the same. It doesn't add up here. All I am saying is that it should be the same heal number as Resolving Vigor. Keeping it the same number as the first vigor is nonseensical. Just for what? 7 more meters? Adding time to it for the same heal amount....

Why would I use Echoing vigor over regular vigor?

I've went with resto staff regen.

Lumsdenml

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

Try to stack some hots on a 4 ppl ball and tell me the results dont matter u play all good or bad, just try it there are many little hots you can stack in a group, and with the lag jitter usually are more important than burst healing. In a Dk or a templar works great... But yes, is a team skill... For solo its a non-sense (specially in some classes)

Ok but explain me one thing.

The heal amount for vigor and echoing vigor is the same.

Vigor 8 seconds 5 ticks 8 meters
Echoing vigor 10 seconds 5 ticks 15 meters

Healing is the same. It doesn't add up here. All I am saying is that it should be the same heal number as Resolving Vigor. Keeping it the same number as the first vigor is nonseensical. Just for what? 7 more meters? Adding time to it for the same heal amount....

Why would I use Echoing vigor over regular vigor?

I've went with resto staff regen.

Echoing vigor is larger radius and increases duration as it ranks up.

DigiAngel

I rarely need the heal as a tank, but my teammates do, so when I see them start dropping health, I fire echoing. Works well.

Freelancer_ESO

The added 7 m is quite nice when the group you are with isn't really close together.

The longer duration can be useful if damage isn't necessarily incoming yet and it can be used to proc things for longer such as Major Courage from SPC.

Vigor also has other benefits.

As Vigor is in the Assault line it can also be used to Proc the Powerful Assault Set.

It's also nice that you don't need to have a specific weapon out to use it.

Finally, as it uses stamina to heal you can use it to avoid drawing on magicka.

EF321

I see no problem here?

New effect
The heal over time now happens faster over a shorter duration and heals for more, but only targets yourself.

Works as inteded.


However, vigor is one of the few skills in game that one might consider not morphing at all:

Vigor
Target: Area
Cost: 2984
Skill description
Let loose a battle cry, instilling yourself and nearby allies with resolve and healing them for 3475 Health over 8 seconds.

Echoing Vigor
Target: Area
Cost: 2984
Skill description
Let loose a battle cry, instilling you and your allies with resolve and healing for 3480 Health over 10 seconds.
New effect
Increases the radius. Increases the duration as the ability ranks up.

You can not morph it and enjoy shorter duration of HoT.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

I think you missed that echoing heals others too!

No I understand that but it still doesn't matter. It's too weak and it's only utility is for 12 man groups. Only a fool would use that in BGs or elsewhere. When there is the far superior resto staff.

Hi. Fool here.

Echoing Vigor is one of the only hots available for Mag Sorc PvP healing that keeps ticking when players are out of range and line of sight. It's also the best skill to use for proccing Powerful Assault. When combined with a source of Major Courage (SPC, Olorime) and Combat Prayer, your teammates get a whopping 17% extra damage in PvP. Throw in Spaulder or Rallying Cry and your teammates have 20%+ extra damage equivalent to 13k+ offensive penetration. This is how you win PvP.

Here's proof. 3 buff bots and 1 Mag Sorc carry on Team Deathmatch. The other two teams each had a dedicated healer.

TechMaybeHic

Resolving vigor is self only. Echoing is group healing. How do you not see the choice here? Both are good, even BIS for their purposes

Yasha

Let me ask you this: why would I use resolving vigor if echoing healed for the same amount?

FeedbackOnly

Long ago it presented a problem as it was over taking healer role in content.

The current situation made the morphs more of a choice

Mayrael

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

I think you missed that echoing heals others too!

No I understand that but it still doesn't matter. It's too weak and it's only utility is for 12 man groups. Only a fool would use that in BGs or elsewhere. When there is the far superior resto staff.

Hi. Fool here.

Echoing Vigor is one of the only hots available for Mag Sorc PvP healing that keeps ticking when players are out of range and line of sight. It's also the best skill to use for proccing Powerful Assault. When combined with a source of Major Courage (SPC, Olorime) and Combat Prayer, your teammates get a whopping 17% extra damage in PvP. Throw in Spaulder or Rallying Cry and your teammates have 20%+ extra damage equivalent to 13k+ offensive penetration. This is how you win PvP.

Here's proof. 3 buff bots and 1 Mag Sorc carry on Team Deathmatch. The other two teams each had a dedicated healer.

I feel this BG by just looking at it. Well done

SedoUmbra

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Echoing vigor is larger radius and increases duration as it ranks up.

They've already addressed this in their OP.

The larger radius has very niche use as the default range is plenty regular groups. And the duration increase doesn't increase the amount of ticks of healing, so it just increases the amount of time between heals, not increasing the healing potential at all.

Amottica

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

Try to stack some hots on a 4 ppl ball and tell me the results dont matter u play all good or bad, just try it there are many little hots you can stack in a group, and with the lag jitter usually are more important than burst healing. In a Dk or a templar works great... But yes, is a team skill... For solo its a non-sense (specially in some classes)

Ok but explain me one thing.

The heal amount for vigor and echoing vigor is the same.

Vigor 8 seconds 5 ticks 8 meters
Echoing vigor 10 seconds 5 ticks 15 meters

Healing is the same. It doesn't add up here. All I am saying is that it should be the same heal number as Resolving Vigor. Keeping it the same number as the first vigor is nonseensical. Just for what? 7 more meters? Adding time to it for the same heal amount....

Why would I use Echoing vigor over regular vigor?

I've went with resto staff regen.

When looking at eHPS they are not the same as one takes longer to deliver the full amount of healing.

ceiron

Off the top of my head echoing isnt a unique proc so if you have a few peoole running it in a group. Especially over 12 man content it actually is a very powerful hot. Especially if all mag. Stamina hot heal that can be easily weaved into a rotation.

Solo ppay definitely resolving and it was nerfed as was too op. I think they both sit very well balanced currently and both have decent situational uses.

No offense ment but i think the op had not ttuly understood the skill or its application.

Generally this is what results in major changes and the nerf hammer.

Understand the base then you might see the potentials and the whys.

Redguards_Revenge

Mayrael wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

I think you missed that echoing heals others too!

No I understand that but it still doesn't matter. It's too weak and it's only utility is for 12 man groups. Only a fool would use that in BGs or elsewhere. When there is the far superior resto staff.

Hi. Fool here.

Echoing Vigor is one of the only hots available for Mag Sorc PvP healing that keeps ticking when players are out of range and line of sight. It's also the best skill to use for proccing Powerful Assault. When combined with a source of Major Courage (SPC, Olorime) and Combat Prayer, your teammates get a whopping 17% extra damage in PvP. Throw in Spaulder or Rallying Cry and your teammates have 20%+ extra damage equivalent to 13k+ offensive penetration. This is how you win PvP.

Here's proof. 3 buff bots and 1 Mag Sorc carry on Team Deathmatch. The other two teams each had a dedicated healer.

I feel this BG by just looking at it. Well done

This is the insight I was looking for. Now it explains why I would want the duration to last longer. However, if they split it into 1 tick per second, it would still do the same thing. The thing is it's still 5 ticks. Is there some reason why they didn't increase the tick amount? Other than the healing potential being higher if it crits? There might be some set I don't know about.

8 meters is lord warden. 12 meters is extended ritual. I can guess 15 meters from this. It does give a lot of wiggle room. I also understand that multiple vigors can be stacked by 12 man group. So I am guessing it's niche as someone said.

But to keep the healing the same as the original vigor, I just can't. However, since it's suppose to be used in huge groups and not a means to have it heal in the background....

Wait did they remove the increased ticks in radiating ? WHERES MUTAGEN???

TechMaybeHic

It's just numbers. 2 people with echoing vigor on each other almost =resolving vigor on each. 3 people and you surpass it. You don't have to be a 12 man to get the value.

Dalsinthus

Echoing has some weird features as it ranks up too. The duration changes in sort of nonsensical ways.

Rank 1 10 seconds
Rank 2 8.7 seconds
Rank 3 9.3 seconds
Rank 4 10 seconds

joseayalac

In some situations, like solo PVE content, Resolving heals for too much (remember that overhealing is wasted healing) but needs to be kept up for long periods, there's were Echoing shines since the healing value is enough, but not having to cast it that often is very advantageous.

Another example is if a PVP Ballgroup decides to stack AOE HOTs to the sky. It's useful there as well without being too overtuned.

Healing staves should, of course, have more healing potential than other weapons, so saying that you feel like you're pushed to using one IF you want a higher healing potential seems intuitive and a well designed functionality.