6 Simple tricks ANY player can do to stop faction stacking for good

Cuddlypuff

While performance is so much better, there's been a disturbing trend towards even more faction stacking where you often have trifaction + hammer fights with over 200 people in a keep. Not only does this cause lag, there's endless crashes, lost lobby connections, audio glitching, frame rate drops which makes for an overall terrible experience. ZOS could possibly remove hammer, gates and bridges but for the most part faction stacking is player driven behavior because there are few downsides. For the people that don't enjoy this sort of rubbish, here's some ways to discourage and punish it for all playstyles:

1. PUSH IN / OUT IMMEDIATELY TO END THE FIGHT BEFORE REINFORCEMENTS ARRIVE TO DRAG IT OUT. When defending, if you're not outside the keep or using defensive siege, then what are you even achieving? If the keep is not lit, you can respawn endlessly and even after it's lit, you can respawn every 5 minute FC cooldown. If doors go down during a seige, just ride a horse in or buff up/pre-heal/major expedition/roll dodge and make a beeline to the side towers and kill the counter-siegers.
2. LEAVE AFTER 1 CONTRIBUTION. You will get the D-Tick or O-Tick for the fight as long as you get 1 combat tick (from kills, healing or repair). There is no need to wait around, especially if you aren't in a position to effectively siege, defend or push in. You can always come back later.
3. DOWNGRADE THE KEEP BY TAKING ALL RSS. I don't know the exact numbers but a downgraded keep will give <20K AP D-ticks, instead of a whopping 100-200K+. Sure most people aren't in it for the AP, but a 20K tick after defending for 90 minutes must be depressing. PROTIP - after the keep is fully defended, immediately fall back to farm/bomb the RSS to prevent flipping back. Do not stay in keep range as any action there will extend the D-tick calculation window.
4. ONLY STAY IF YOU CAN IMPACT THE FIGHT. If you're not a bomber or seiger, you simply won't make a difference at best and will VD/cause lag at worst. Refer to point 1. Even as a bomber, you are only needed when the inner door is open so wait for call outs before going.
5. CUT OTHER KEEPS BY TAKING RSS OR SEIGING TO PULL DEFENDERS OFF KEEP. Everyone on the server is probably at the faction stack fight. Maybe nothing else is going on at all. However it literally take 1 person to troll siege a postern. If you're PVE you can just do RSS.
6. (AB)USE PLAGUEBREAK FOR THE FINAL BOSS (aka the 4-5 stacked ball groups huddled inside, or pushing in). Make sure every single enemy is plagued at all times. Any burst (eg a bomber or a clueless pug pressing purge) will end the fight there and then. There is a reason why ball groups (especially those crutching on hp and heals) hate this set. Happy farming!

kargen27

Most of these sound like your solution is don't PvP.

Kisakee

RSS? Downgrade? How do i even upgrade a keep in the first place? What is defensive sieging? And what exactly is a "sieger" in your definition? Your advice may be great, i just have no idea what you're talking about.

VaranisArano

Kisakee wrote: »

RSS? Downgrade? How do i even upgrade a keep in the first place? What is defensive sieging? And what exactly is a "sieger" in your definition? Your advice may be great, i just have no idea what you're talking about.

Capturing resources (lumbermill, farm, mine) will reduce the level of the keep walls. Do note that capturing resources before the keep is flagged is a great way to tell the enemy you are coming, and gives them a chance to port in to defend. A fast organized group will siege rhe front door or a wall to 50% first in order to flag the keep and prevent reinforcements.

Defensive siege is where you use siege against the attackers, such as oils or catapults. Offensive siege uses Ballistas and rams to break down the walls/doors, or other weapons to suppress the defenders.

Most of the advice is just "You see all those people having fun capturing/defending this keep? Could you please go do something else somewhere else?"

So, YMMV about whether or not you want to do something else somewhere else. If you like to PVP with a bunch of players all around you, then stick with the "faction stack."

If you want to split off in a smaller group, it can be really effective to go attack other keeps or resources while the enemy is focused on the faction stack.

bmnoble

Isn't the large scale PVP fights the entire point of the zone.

Kisakee

VaranisArano wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

RSS? Downgrade? How do i even upgrade a keep in the first place? What is defensive sieging? And what exactly is a "sieger" in your definition? Your advice may be great, i just have no idea what you're talking about.

Capturing resources (lumbermill, farm, mine) will reduce the level of the keep walls. Do note that capturing resources before the keep is flagged is a great way to tell the enemy you are coming, and gives them a chance to port in to defend. A fast organized group will siege rhe front door or a wall to 50% first in order to flag the keep and prevent reinforcements.

Defensive siege is where you use siege against the attackers, such as oils or catapults. Offensive siege uses Ballistas and rams to break down the walls/doors, or other weapons to suppress the defenders.

Most of the advice is just "You see all those people having fun capturing/defending this keep? Could you please go do something else somewhere else?"

So, YMMV about whether or not you want to do something else somewhere else. If you like to PVP with a bunch of players all around you, then stick with the "faction stack."

If you want to split off in a smaller group, it can be really effective to go attack other keeps or resources while the enemy is focused on the faction stack.

That's a handful of useful information, take my "Insightful". Last question is what "RSS" exactly stands for, i just want to know.

And i've never been the guy for big fights, standing on the front and slahing enemies. I love to roam and take resource camps, attacking from the shadows if possible and support said battles with some long distance shots.
I'm a pure scout, it's just not easy to be a hard hitting sneaker to actually overcome the NPC guards at the outposts.

Cuddlypuff

bmnoble wrote: »

Isn't the large scale PVP fights the entire point of the zone.

The zone has 18 keeps, 6 outposts and 54 resources. You don't all need to be at 1 keep.

kargen27 wrote: »

Most of these sound like your solution is don't PvP.

They are all PVP tips that work for people of all skill levels and playstyles. If you don't want to learn, that's OK. But please let others learn.

Kisakee wrote: »

That's a handful of useful information, take my "Insightful". Last question is what "RSS" exactly stands for, i just want to know.

RSS is resource, ie farm, lumber or mine. You want an upgraded keep when defending, so push out / bomb fast while your RSS are still owned by your faction. If you are sieging and struggling, you want to downgrade the RSS to demotivate the defenders.

Kidgangster101

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Isn't the large scale PVP fights the entire point of the zone.

The zone has 18 keeps, 6 outposts and 54 resources. You don't all need to be at 1 keep.

kargen27 wrote: »

Most of these sound like your solution is don't PvP.

They are all PVP tips that work for people of all skill levels and playstyles. If you don't want to learn, that's OK. But please let others learn.

Kisakee wrote: »

That's a handful of useful information, take my "Insightful". Last question is what "RSS" exactly stands for, i just want to know.

RSS is resource, ie farm, lumber or mine. You want an upgraded keep when defending, so push out / bomb fast while your RSS are still owned by your faction. If you are sieging and struggling, you want to downgrade the RSS to demotivate the defenders.

So yes those are good tips........ If your end goal is to PvE and try to win the overall campaign. But not to someone who wants ap and to pvp. For pvp you want to stay for those def ticks or offensive ticks while farming ap from the people you kill. I used to take scrolls and farm people or tower farm and not even care about the scroll.

I also used to duo with my wife and just CP owned resources and kill people when they tried to capture. Pvp is literally what you want it to be weather it's small scale, back capping, or huge zerg fighting.

Amottica

This doesn’t seem to be about ending faction stacking but just avoiding PvP. Sure, there are times it’s strategic to take an off keep as a diversion but PvP is the real purpose of Cyrodiil.

kargen27

"They are all PVP tips that work for people of all skill levels and playstyles. If you don't want to learn, that's OK. But please let others learn."

I am all for more people participating in PvP and learning. Personally I think your advice for someone early in their PvP experience is bad advice. Best way to learn PvP is to get right in the middle of it. Die often and figure out how you died and what you might do different to live longer.
Join the big battles. Learn how ball groups use choke points and how to avoid getting caught in those choke points. Learn how to get AoE out where it will be most affective. Basically at first learn how to move and stay alive while getting a few hits in.
"If you're not a bomber or seiger, you simply won't make a difference at best and will VD/cause lag at worst. "

This is particularly bad advice. When with an attacking force you can help protect siege, heal, revive the fallen and/or provide a distraction. As you become comfortable with your skills you can begin fighting on the fringe keeping the enemy intent on interrupting the siege at bay.
In large battles as you reference in the opening post resources don't really matter unless a tick is coming. The door/wall will go down fast in a large battle then the real fight begins. Who owns the resources won't matter for that. It is all about can the attackers get through the breach or not. Getting good at determining the outcome here is again best achieved by getting right in the middle of it.
At first maybe you die a few times to siege being fired through the gate. So you learn line of sight and how to plan when to get your own attacks in. If you are able to heal you learn where you are most affective and least vulnerable. Attacking forces are fairly straight forward. You have to get through the breach. That might take a 2nd hole in the wall. Whatever the strategy it takes a coordinated effort in large fights and the way to learn that is be right in the muck.
Defense you get more options. Defend the breach, go around and flank the enemy, look for camps and either pop players as they try to get back into the fight or burn the camp depending on how the fight is going and how confident you are in your skills.
Most of what you listed is great advice for map control but my opinion is a player should learn the actual PvP part of the battle before worrying about map control. When you are confident in your fighting you are able to risk more in controlling the map. You can go false flag a keep or isolate a keep by grabbing resources. Sometimes just slowing an enemy down at gates or bridges helps with controlling the map and can impact a large battle but you should be comfortable with fighting the enemy to be most affective at that role. You get comfortable by fighting.

I've always felt the best way to improve at PvP is to die a lot and learn from those deaths. Don't let dying slow you down from jumping right in the battle. Chances are in a big fight someone will be there to rez you and eventually you will be able to return the favor.

Cuddlypuff

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

So yes those are good tips........ If your end goal is to PvE and try to win the overall campaign. But not to someone who wants ap and to pvp. For pvp you want to stay for those def ticks or offensive ticks while farming ap from the people you kill. I used to take scrolls and farm people or tower farm and not even care about the scroll.

Not really - the tips are mostly in the pursuit of better fights and better AP and can be backed up with stats. My wife and I have tried almost every timezone on GH and consistently average 100-150K AP/hr following these principles (especially #1 and #2) with ~50% combat ticks. Not saying we are amazing players but there's definitely not many people or groups that even come close to our AP rate.
Since we are bombers, we also get duo ticks of 50 - 100K+ quite regularly so it shouldn't really come as a surprise. Farming any location for too long is TERRIBLE AP. The first fight (and any people that jump in during it) will net you 90% of all the AP in the fight and possibly even an early D-tick shared with fewer participants. The kills are fresh (2K AP each) but drop to <100 for the second time your "farmees" die. You should be racing your faction for the early kills and leaving once most enemies are freshly respawned.

kargen27 wrote: »

"They are all PVP tips that work for people of all skill levels and playstyles. If you don't want to learn, that's OK. But please let others learn."

"If you're not a bomber or seiger, you simply won't make a difference at best and will VD/cause lag at worst. "

This is particularly bad advice. When with an attacking force you can help protect siege, heal, revive the fallen and/or provide a distraction. As you become comfortable with your skills you can begin fighting on the fringe keeping the enemy intent on interrupting the siege at bay.

I don't know which ideal wonderland version of Cyrodiil you play in. But in practice, you will be farmed by the defending faction's siege/bombs in the courtyard and by the 3rd faction's 1vX / small scalers on the walls. Again I'm not amazing at PVP, but many far better PVP players than myself have said the only way to learn PVP is to go out solo and find fights. I believe that implies not to faction stack as a beginner.

Amottica wrote: »

This doesn’t seem to be about ending faction stacking but just avoiding PvP. Sure, there are times it’s strategic to take an off keep as a diversion but PvP is the real purpose of Cyrodiil.

"Avoiding PVP" comes down to your projection of what happens outside of the faction stack fight. For my playstyle, I can usually find a PvDoor group or RSS uncut crew to bomb. Maybe you can enlighten us on the details of the PVP that you get in a faction stack that we're missing out on.

kargen27

" But in practice, you will be farmed by the defending faction's siege/bombs in the courtyard and by the 3rd faction's 1vX / small scalers on the walls."

You will only be farmed if you let yourself be farmed. You start where you are comfortable then you begin taking more risks. Sure as you start you will die often as you venture out away from the middle. Eventually you die less and contribute more. You don't learn by tossing out a few AoEs to trigger getting the tick then running off to do something else. You can AP farm that way but AP farming and PvP are two separate things with some overlap. Your advice is good for map control and AP farming. Not so good for learning to fight other players.
I said in an earlier post learning to move is important. Knowing how to stay mobile will prevent getting rolled by ball groups running along the siege line and will make you much less likely to be successfully bombed. PvP is about moving and to learn that you need to be in fights. They don't all have to be large scale. New players shouldn't be made to think they can't contribute to a large scale battle simply because they are not sieging or bombing.

neferpitou73

kargen27 wrote: »

Most of these sound like your solution is don't PvP.

Lol my thoughts exactly. Those crazy crowded keep battles are some of the most fun moments in the game. With the performance improvements seen the last couple of days I'm now optimistic they can get the servers to support these larger fights.

geonsocal

Kisakee wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

RSS? Downgrade? How do i even upgrade a keep in the first place? What is defensive sieging? And what exactly is a "sieger" in your definition? Your advice may be great, i just have no idea what you're talking about.

Capturing resources (lumbermill, farm, mine) will reduce the level of the keep walls. Do note that capturing resources before the keep is flagged is a great way to tell the enemy you are coming, and gives them a chance to port in to defend. A fast organized group will siege rhe front door or a wall to 50% first in order to flag the keep and prevent reinforcements.

Defensive siege is where you use siege against the attackers, such as oils or catapults. Offensive siege uses Ballistas and rams to break down the walls/doors, or other weapons to suppress the defenders.

Most of the advice is just "You see all those people having fun capturing/defending this keep? Could you please go do something else somewhere else?"

So, YMMV about whether or not you want to do something else somewhere else. If you like to PVP with a bunch of players all around you, then stick with the "faction stack."

If you want to split off in a smaller group, it can be really effective to go attack other keeps or resources while the enemy is focused on the faction stack.

I'm a pure scout, it's just not easy to be a hard hitting sneaker to actually overcome the NPC guards at the outposts.

that's some serious truth there...I have 17 toons and they all react differently at resources...

sorcerers and wardens do really well at the resources, worse is being on some tanky build that takes forever to kill guards...nothing more demoralizing than having to kill guards more than once cuz it takes you too long to solo the resource...

geonsocal

oh yeah, another "tip" is to use siege during large melee battles...it'll get you targeted pretty quick, but, it's the best way for one solo/random player type person to impact the fight...

that and DC, time freeze or negate...

HonestLoverr

Players themselves will never be able to fix faction stacking. Ever.

Look at it at from a different view: The campaign system rewards boosters, faction switching, scroll trading, keep trading, and double teaming. People wanna get that fancy emp costume and former emp title. Whole guilds have established a market outside of eso selling these things for RL money and carry/boost their buyers. Sounds crazy? It is. But thats whats going on. Every now and then you MAY have that one guy achieving these goals too, you know, that one guy who plays 24/7 for months with his best friends to finally get lucky one time when those guilds with its sister/brother/uncle/aunt guilds from all factions are not active to boost their mates or customers. These guilds consist of the most coordinated groups who don't let anyone else join them with reason. Some guilds even have those groups inside them while the guild itself leans more towards a casual playstyle. Doesn't change the fact those "deals" happen there too. Most guilds stay in contact via discord and such so there is way going on of importance behind the scene then you can imagine.

Pure casual guilds interested in action only, pug zergs, and the like, those are the ones you will rarely see having success with their tactics. Once their goal crosses the path of boosting families its gg. If the herd can't get nuked from one side, then its time for double teaming and ground everyone this way. Etc. etc. You see, you can do all you want you will not stop faction stacking.

The campaign system is what leads to all this. It opened a whole different kind of market unique to ESO PvP. Can't touch this with some tips, no way. As long as we have this campaign system in place, people will keep boosting, faction switch, scroll trade, keep trade, and double team. What looks normal to most, or toxic, or elitist, is nothing but a combination of methods to get RL money out of players. People pay for achievements, titles, costumes and whatnot. Not everyone, of course not. But way more than you think and way more than enough to make it a problem that is not possible to be solved from our side.

This problem is on ZoS to fix.

Cuddlypuff

HonestLoverr wrote: »

Players themselves will never be able to fix faction stacking. Ever.

Look at it at from a different view: The campaign system rewards boosters, faction switching, scroll trading, keep trading, and double teaming. People wanna get that fancy emp costume and former emp title. Whole guilds have established a market outside of eso selling these things for RL money and carry/boost their buyers. Sounds crazy? It is. But thats whats going on.

Call me naive but I've never seen a boosted emp on PC NA Gray Host. They're usually just people that decide to play a lot in 1 particular campaign. It is player driven behavior because most people just don't know any better. The biggest jokes are the AP FARM guilds on PVDOOR campaigns that schedule exclusive timeslots to take the entire map (most people may already know what I'm talking about). This nets ~100K AP/HR tops which barely touches the low end of bombing / small scale AP gain. Would they still bore themselves to death nightcapping if they knew they could do much better whilst also having fun? Who knows. But probably.

Amottica

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

This doesn’t seem to be about ending faction stacking but just avoiding PvP. Sure, there are times it’s strategic to take an off keep as a diversion but PvP is the real purpose of Cyrodiil.

"Avoiding PVP" comes down to your projection of what happens outside of the faction stack fight. For my playstyle, I can usually find a PvDoor group or RSS uncut crew to bomb. Maybe you can enlighten us on the details of the PVP that you get in a faction stack that we're missing out on.

There is a lot of different ways to engage in actual PvP vs just PvDoor before anyone arrives and move on to something else. One thing is actually defending keeps and such that we hold. I can go into detail but I expect there are many videos available that would offer insight into a whole hose of things.

Each to their own and there is nothing wrong with how you or anyone of us chooses to play as long as it is legit. However, the thread was created with the premise to end faction stacking for good but it will not end faction stacking but merely is about avoidance. That is really all I have pointed out.

Cuddlypuff

Amottica wrote: »

There is a lot of different ways to engage in actual PvP vs just PvDoor before anyone arrives and move on to something else. One thing is actually defending keeps and such that we hold. I can go into detail but I expect there are many videos available that would offer insight into a whole hose of things.

There are no videos because what you describe does not exist. Let's not forget that even as recently as 1-2 years ago, we often had 3-4 keeps under attack at all times on the map. Now it's mostly 0 or 1 and it's either PvDoor or a 30 minute lagfest. Frankly speaking, in the OP I said these tips were for players that don't find it fun to sit with 200 other people in a laggy stalemate. If you enjoy that sort of thing, just move along and keep doing what you are doing.

Cuddlypuff

Quoted post has been removed.

Kinda veering off topic here but how does faction stacking help emp boosting in any way, especially when you need to hit multiple ring keeps at once during the emp push. AP wise, if you've seen us on PC-NA GH you'd know that nobody comes anywhere near the AP/h that my wife and I make as a duo. If boosting was a thing, why has nobody ever paid me off to drop campaign since they couldn't boost past me anyway (despite starting a few days into the campaign each time). Those bad players with former emp just cheesed it during MYM. The bad players with grand overlord have probably been zerging since beta and just never improved. Stop trying to derail discussions with conspiracy theories.

kargen27

HonestLoverr wrote: »

Players themselves will never be able to fix faction stacking. Ever.

Look at it at from a different view: The campaign system rewards boosters, faction switching, scroll trading, keep trading, and double teaming. People wanna get that fancy emp costume and former emp title. Whole guilds have established a market outside of eso selling these things for RL money and carry/boost their buyers. Sounds crazy? It is. But thats whats going on. Every now and then you MAY have that one guy achieving these goals too, you know, that one guy who plays 24/7 for months with his best friends to finally get lucky one time when those guilds with its sister/brother/uncle/aunt guilds from all factions are not active to boost their mates or customers. These guilds consist of the most coordinated groups who don't let anyone else join them with reason. Some guilds even have those groups inside them while the guild itself leans more towards a casual playstyle. Doesn't change the fact those "deals" happen there too. Most guilds stay in contact via discord and such so there is way going on of importance behind the scene then you can imagine.

Pure casual guilds interested in action only, pug zergs, and the like, those are the ones you will rarely see having success with their tactics. Once their goal crosses the path of boosting families its gg. If the herd can't get nuked from one side, then its time for double teaming and ground everyone this way. Etc. etc. You see, you can do all you want you will not stop faction stacking.

The campaign system is what leads to all this. It opened a whole different kind of market unique to ESO PvP. Can't touch this with some tips, no way. As long as we have this campaign system in place, people will keep boosting, faction switch, scroll trade, keep trade, and double team. What looks normal to most, or toxic, or elitist, is nothing but a combination of methods to get RL money out of players. People pay for achievements, titles, costumes and whatnot. Not everyone, of course not. But way more than you think and way more than enough to make it a problem that is not possible to be solved from our side.

This problem is on ZoS to fix.

Those same places will level new characters, do Maelstrom runs, and an assortment of other things. If the campaign structure was removed and something else put in place these places would simply also make the change. They even take advantage of the Sticker Book to offer specific weapons in one run.

HonestLoverr

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Kinda veering off topic here but how does faction stacking help emp boosting in any way, especially when you need to hit multiple ring keeps at once during the emp push. AP wise, if you've seen us on PC-NA GH you'd know that nobody comes anywhere near the AP/h that my wife and I make as a duo. If boosting was a thing, why has nobody ever paid me off to drop campaign since they couldn't boost past me anyway (despite starting a few days into the campaign each time). Those bad players with former emp just cheesed it during MYM. The bad players with grand overlord have probably been zerging since beta and just never improved. Stop trying to derail discussions with conspiracy theories.

Theories haha. Use google search and see for yourself. You can even ask the guys and girls who offer these things how they manage to guarantee titles and stuff and be prepared for a shocking surprise. Then come back and tell us again about "conspiracy theories".

You play this game to have fun. You are saying you do it the legit way too. I understand. And I believe you. You don't have to proof your intentions to me mate. I just try to make it clear for you that some tips won't help with solving a problem with its root cause laying way deeper than just gameplay or tactics.

Long story short: You play for fun. These communites don't. They work rather than play. To earn money to pay their taxes. You got these sort of people everywhere on internet games man. Wherever gold/account/etc. sellers find a hole to make money they will do so. Period. And they do everything they can to get their income. Everywhere possible. Same goes for ESO and the PvP here. Not everyone plays legit. And not everyone works on his own to achieve things ingame. If you like it or not.

HonestLoverr

kargen27 wrote: »

Those same places will level new characters, do Maelstrom runs, and an assortment of other things. If the campaign structure was removed and something else put in place these places would simply also make the change. They even take advantage of the Sticker Book to offer specific weapons in one run.

Indeed. They will just adapt wherever possible. Which is what I am trying to say here. The sheer amount of offers and what they offer in detail - even regarding PvP - and how they manage to make it possible in the first place, can be mind blowing. Tips won't help. Its a kind move, but it just won't help. Its on ZoS to solve this. Not on us.

kargen27

HonestLoverr wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Kinda veering off topic here but how does faction stacking help emp boosting in any way, especially when you need to hit multiple ring keeps at once during the emp push. AP wise, if you've seen us on PC-NA GH you'd know that nobody comes anywhere near the AP/h that my wife and I make as a duo. If boosting was a thing, why has nobody ever paid me off to drop campaign since they couldn't boost past me anyway (despite starting a few days into the campaign each time). Those bad players with former emp just cheesed it during MYM. The bad players with grand overlord have probably been zerging since beta and just never improved. Stop trying to derail discussions with conspiracy theories.

Theories haha. Use google search and see for yourself. You can even ask the guys and girls who offer these things how they manage to guarantee titles and stuff and be prepared for a shocking surprise. Then come back and tell us again about "conspiracy theories".

You play this game to have fun. You are saying you do it the legit way too. I understand. And I believe you. You don't have to proof your intentions to me mate. I just try to make it clear for you that some tips won't help with solving a problem with its root cause laying way deeper than just gameplay or tactics.

Long story short: You play for fun. These communites don't. They work rather than play. To earn money to pay their taxes. You got these sort of people everywhere on internet games man. Wherever gold/account/etc. sellers find a hole to make money they will do so. Period. And they do everything they can to get their income. Everywhere possible. Same goes for ESO and the PvP here. Not everyone plays legit. And not everyone works on his own to achieve things ingame. If you like it or not.

Leaving that aside you also have guilds that legitimately try to Emp their members. I was in a guild that would pick a player and we would all do what we could to help that player gain the title. No gold or real money transactions but our tactics for putting someone on the throne was probably the same. Usually the player would be on vacation or otherwise have several days with not much to do. They would stay in game as much as possible and the rest of us would jump in when we could. When the player took the lead everybody available would jump in and start flipping the map.
Sometimes you strike a deal with another guild. We never did a deal across factions but I know other guilds that did that regularly. Before they changed how defensive/offensive ticks are given out it was a lot easier to get a player on the throne.

jaws343

I want to speak to the defensive respawn bit.

Yes, when the keep is not flagged, or not under 75% (getting too close to being flagged), push out. Just keep jumping off the walls to disrupt them as much as possible.

But, once that % dips below 75 and it doesn't look like your side is making an effective push, or the keep is already flagged, stay on the walls. There is no point in wasting the forward camp cooldown for an entirely preventable death. Not only do the forward camps have player limits (20), using them for an avoidable death also means the potential of not having a respawn during an important point in the keep defense.

Plus, you are far more impactful on top of the walls raining some sort of damage down, or getting ready back a ways from the gate with siege or AOEs in anticipation of the enemy push through a choke point, than you are hopping off the wall and wasting a respawn cooldown at the forward camp to useless push out by yourself.

Cuddlypuff

kargen27 wrote: »

Leaving that aside you also have guilds that legitimately try to Emp their members. I was in a guild that would pick a player and we would all do what we could to help that player gain the title. No gold or real money transactions but our tactics for putting someone on the throne was probably the same. Usually the player would be on vacation or otherwise have several days with not much to do. They would stay in game as much as possible and the rest of us would jump in when we could. When the player took the lead everybody available would jump in and start flipping the map.
Sometimes you strike a deal with another guild. We never did a deal across factions but I know other guilds that did that regularly. Before they changed how defensive/offensive ticks are given out it was a lot easier to get a player on the throne.

Either way the key here is you need to be #1 on the leaderboard. This requires AP. Faction stacking does not grant AP. When you faction stack 1 hr at a seige for the chance of a 20-30K tick, someone else would be collecting up to 100K AP elsewhere on top of your O-tick. Not sure how you can emp with those odds.

jaws343 wrote: »

I want to speak to the defensive respawn bit.

Yes, when the keep is not flagged, or not under 75% (getting too close to being flagged), push out. Just keep jumping off the walls to disrupt them as much as possible.

But, once that % dips below 75 and it doesn't look like your side is making an effective push, or the keep is already flagged, stay on the walls. There is no point in wasting the forward camp cooldown for an entirely preventable death. Not only do the forward camps have player limits (20), using them for an avoidable death also means the potential of not having a respawn during an important point in the keep defense.

Plus, you are far more impactful on top of the walls raining some sort of damage down, or getting ready back a ways from the gate with siege or AOEs in anticipation of the enemy push through a choke point, than you are hopping off the wall and wasting a respawn cooldown at the forward camp to useless push out by yourself.

Nobody pushes out just to die. You do it in the hope that people follow and you crush the siege early. Why?
1. Less chance for slow people to join the siege and properly set up
2. Less people to share D-tick with, thus higher tick
3. Less chance of keep getting downgraded

Other ideal times to push are the moment doors or walls open after the initial wave melts to siege/bombs.

Amottica

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

There is a lot of different ways to engage in actual PvP vs just PvDoor before anyone arrives and move on to something else. One thing is actually defending keeps and such that we hold. I can go into detail but I expect there are many videos available that would offer insight into a whole hose of things.

There are no videos because what you describe does not exist. Let's not forget that even as recently as 1-2 years ago, we often had 3-4 keeps under attack at all times on the map. Now it's mostly 0 or 1 and it's either PvDoor or a 30 minute lagfest. Frankly speaking, in the OP I said these tips were for players that don't find it fun to sit with 200 other people in a laggy stalemate. If you enjoy that sort of thing, just move along and keep doing what you are doing.

I merely searched for a brief moment to find a video with actual PvP in it where the players were fighting actual players vs just fighting a door and then moving on. So videos of actual PvP do exist.

Oh, I also made sure the video was from this past year as to pick an ancient video from long ago. The video encompasses everything from taking a fortification to resources and out in the open world. It encompasses a lot. I linked it for convenience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pm2wmvejK0

And as I said in my post you quoted, but you chose to edit out, "Each to their own and there is nothing wrong with how you or anyone of us chooses to play as long as it is legit." I have not judged how anyone chooses to play. I have merely pointed out that the suggestions noted in the OP will not end faction stacking but are merely how to avoid large groups of enemies, and that is fine.

Enjoy the game. Have a good day.

MEBengalsFan2001

Do what I do... go to the enemy home keeps and flag them. I usually end up flagging a few keeps while the hammer is out. Especially when you get with two other players and flag all the home keeps at once and once you do that, you steal resources to lock out other keeps etc...

If you have a group of 8-12 you go take a outpost, keeps, etc...

Cuddlypuff

Amottica wrote: »

And as I said in my post you quoted, but you chose to edit out, "Each to their own and there is nothing wrong with how you or anyone of us chooses to play as long as it is legit." I have not judged how anyone chooses to play. I have merely pointed out that the suggestions noted in the OP will not end faction stacking but are merely how to avoid large groups of enemies, and that is fine.

Enjoy the game. Have a good day.

Not going to be drawn into bickering but there's just no need to be unnecessarily argumentative. This is not about avoiding PVP. It is about avoiding faction stacks. I don't know you so I can't assume whether or not you know what happens outside of "the one keep fight on the entire map". There's actually a lot of PVP out there too. It's a bit of a stretch to jump to the conclusion that avoiding faction stacking is avoiding PVP, and project it onto others.

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Do what I do... go to the enemy home keeps and flag them. I usually end up flagging a few keeps while the hammer is out. Especially when you get with two other players and flag all the home keeps at once and once you do that, you steal resources to lock out other keeps etc...

If you have a group of 8-12 you go take a outpost, keeps, etc...

We need more selfless heroes like you. One of the most epic things I have seen in Cyro was 1 guy solo sieging KC outer and inner doors with 8 trebuchets. By the time we got there, he was already on the flags by himself.

kargen27

"Either way the key here is you need to be #1 on the leaderboard. This requires AP. Faction stacking does not grant AP. When you faction stack 1 hr at a seige for the chance of a 20-30K tick, someone else would be collecting up to 100K AP elsewhere on top of your O-tick. Not sure how you can emp with those odds."

yes and that is why it is usually a guild effort. The player we wish to seat goes around with a small group repairing walls flipping resources and arriving in time for offensive and defensive ticks. A large group controls the map. If your player isn't in the number one spot but is close you don't push to take all the needed keeps. That is why sometimes you see a faction only needs one more inner keep to put someone on the throne but a large group concentrates on a gate keep or trying for a scroll. The small group sticks with our soon to be emperor and maximizes AP for them. A couple of people jump to different keeps to see if walls need repaired so the player being supported doesn't waste time.
Soon as the player gets the lead if all is going well there is one maybe two keeps left not taken and everyone goes all in to get those lit as quick as possible. The farther you can get them from other factions home base the better.
Also you will sometimes see a large group not helping an emperor stay as emperor. That means they have someone close to the top and need the other person dethroned so their push can begin. I've also seen a person promise to log out if other guilds help them become emperor so a 2nd person can pass them on the list and start their run to the throne.

Back before the change to ticks there was a guild that would emperor a different player three or four times a week. They charged a large amount of in game gold to do so.

Cuddlypuff

Sometimes I wish AP was worth much more in game, so that people would actually try to optimize their AP gain. Right now it's such a worthless currency that most players don't even care for it at all. If it was more valuable then surely you'd see more spread out action across the map as that leads to a higher overall pool of AP.

I'm still not convinced you can reliably sell emp unless it's just a Day 1 / MYM dead campaign type thing. If a bomber wants to play a lot during a campaign, no booster will come close even if they don't sleep. Unfortunately it's just how the AP mechanics work right now. Bombers will always get the first solo d-tick and the fresh AP kills and will never dip below 100K AP/h. This is reflected in most leaderboards as well, with the remainder consisting of 24/7 players and professional oilers.