Yet Another Thread About Racial Passives

Hunter_02

Greetings, fellow players and lore-adepts,

In this thread I shall talk about the racial passives and propose changes based on lore, roleplaying and gameplay. Very minor spoiler warning ahead.

Why even bother to create yet another thread about this topic? Well, with the increasing viability of hybrid builds, racial passives should receive another overhaul to reflect the various types of builds and playstyles that are possible now. As I said, I shall try to approach this not just from the gameplay side, but from a lore and role-playing perspective, too. Hear me out:

There are extremely capable Imperial sorcerers (mages in general) in lore. While the race itself does not have much Elven blood, this is made up for by a disciplined and nigh-on religious study of the practical applications of magic, which is why there are no finer battlemages in Tamriel than the ones trained at the Imperial Battlespire. And yet, the racial passives do not reflect this in the slightest: They are exclusively Stamina and Health-focused, as far as attributes go.
Bretons get the same treatment, just the other way around: There are many gallant knight-types roaming High Rock, and those use heavy armor, sword and shield or a greatsword. In fact, a Breton knight wielding a claymore currently adorns the login screen wallpaper, and will most likely continue to do so throughout the year. This would ideally imply a health and stamina focus (a tank focus, in fact), but the opposite is the case: The racial passives are purely magic-related, save for a decent buff to spell resistance.
And the list goes on: Orcs do have powerful shamanic wizards, High Elves have rugged, steel-clad warriors, Nords have Clever Men and Women, Argonians have Shadowscales, Bosmer have the spinners, and so on. In fact, the Khajiit are the only race whose passives I would consider to reflect their martial propensities the best, with buffs to base magicka, stamina and health points as well as regeneration, and they also have buffs to critical damage and a reduced stealth detection radius (covering the basic Mage, Warrior, Paladin and Rogue build directions - or Sorcerer, Dragonknight, Templar and Nightblade respectively).

What is the ultimate point of this rant? A proposition. One that I am sure has been made before, but as Silvenar Edhelorn said shortly before his untimely demise: "A chorus of requests may succeed in carrying the tune."

Character backgrounds. How about it? Instead of being tied to one set of passives for the chosen character, how about allowing the player to choose from a selection of different, lore-based passive sets for each race? Let me paint you a picture of how this might work in the game.

In the Character Creator, there would simply be another option, or perhaps even an entirely new menu. For each race, there would be several possible sets of racial passives - "backgrounds" - to select. Let's say - about six. Each background represents a slightly different approach to gameplay, each with different buffs and debuffs. Considering how detailed these new proposed mechanics are in comparison to what we have in the game, these passives should also be a bit stronger.
So, you want to create a Nord: You'd have 6 lore-based and accordingly named backgrounds available to you. Their descriptions should be kept vague in order to not compromise the roleplaying background players may have thought up for their character:

- Frostborn Berserker: "Your boiling blood grants you bonuses to Health Regeneration, Stamina regeneration and Weapon Damage at the cost of your vitality": +15% Health and Stamina regen, +10% Weapon Damage, -15% Maximum Health

- Nightingale: "Your alignment with darker forces allows you to hide in the shadows more effectively, move faster and strike precisely, but you are spurned by your fellow Nords: - 4 m stealth detection radius, +15% movement speed when sprinting, +10% weapon critical chance, +100% higher bounties placed on you if you are caught in Skyrim (no real idea how to word this more elegantly)

- Snowhawk Mage: "Your mastery of the frost surrounding you and your keen senses grant you higher Spell Damage, Magicka Regeneration and Frost Damage": +10% Spell Damage, +10% Magicka Regeneration, +15% Damage with Frost Spells

- Clever Man / Woman: "Blessed with wisdom and spiritual insight, you have more Magicka, Magicka Regeneration and Spell Resistance": +15% Max Magicka, + 10% Magicka Regeneration, + 5000 Spell Resistance

- Kynareth's/Kyne's disciple: "Your kind-hearted nature grants you increased Healing Done, Maximum Magicka and Critical Healing": +10% Healing Done, + 10% Max Magicka, +15% Critical Healing

- Warrior of the Wild: "Your connection to the very land grants you more Stamina, Health, Stamina and Health Regeneration and Resistances. Animals are less likely to flee from or attack you": +5% Max Stamina, +10% Max Health, +5% Stamina Regeneration, +20% Health Regeneration +2500 Physical and Spell Resistance, aggression radius of hostile non-humanoid entities reduced by 25% as long as you are on Nirn (that last part might be a bit too specific)

I would like to stress that what I just described is merely one way to go about it, and that perhaps there are other, better ways to diversify racial passives to fit different builds and play styles. As I announced, I placed particular focus on the role-playing aspect, for it is an MMORPG after all, and these are your own characters with backstories you personally thought up for each and every one of them. With my proposition, however, you would be free - or freer - from the "racial bias" towards a certain playstyle that the game imposes on you. With the Nightingale background, for example, you could easily create a Nord Nightblade with fitting passives, potentially inspired by characters such as Brynjolf or Astrid (from Elder Scrolls: Skyrim). Or, perhaps you felt inspired by Shalidor and wanted to create a Nord Sorcerer build with the passives to boot.

I sincerely hope I could give you some food for thought, and furthermore that I could inspire a few comments, perhaps even a discussion. If not, disregard this.

AcadianPaladin

I would like for my character's race to have exactly the same impact on their combat prowess as does their gender. Zero.

I should think min/maxers would find it one less meta aspect to chase after. Conversely, I'd think roleplayers would continue to 'lean into' their view of their chosen race.

oorar

I totally agree. "Play the way you want" is a funny quote when your race impacts your stats and effects your gameplay. I know the differences are not that big but race should only be a cosmetic thing. Swimming speed, pick pocketing, crafting inspiration bonus etc. are fine because they don't affect your stats.

ESO_Nightingale

oorar wrote: »

I totally agree. "Play the way you want" is a funny quote when your race impacts your stats and effects your gameplay. I know the differences are not that big but race should only be a cosmetic thing. Swimming speed, pick pocketing, crafting inspiration bonus etc. are fine because they don't affect your stats.

i agree. i play mostly mag characters and you just can't argue that high elf is the best for pve dps.

YandereGirlfriend

I'm always here to pour cold water on these threads.

As long as ESO continues to view itself as an RPG then it has to respect the pillars of the genre - and that means having distinct races with distinct strengths and weaknesses.

There are also decades of established lore and gameplay canon on the topic that every dedicated TES player has internalized by now. To simply cast that aside would be disrespectful to the series' own history and to the likely large majority of the player base who likes that history just as it is.

There is nothing holding anyone back from making a Nord like Shalidor except their own self-imposed vision of what is and is not sanctioned by the game. That extra ~5% DPS is not going to make or break your ability to clear any content.

WordsOfPower

The reason your suggestion is not going to happen is because it would tax server performance even more than it already does.

This game is already weighted too much in favour of solo casual players. Please don't give the devs any more ideas.

dmnqwk

While I can appreciate 'cold water being poured on this thread' it's very clear that race no longer needs to be a derisive choice.

Dungeons and Dragons, a 48 year old RPG franchise, took over 46 years to separate racial modifiers from races with the Tasha's Cauldron change allowing you to freely pick your race for RP preferences. (5th edition's point buy favouritism definitely helped this point along, compared to previous editions where a +1 str racial modifier could be the difference between +1/+3 and +3/+7 damage!)

What people need to remember is that as a hero, a paragon, a champion of your people you do not need to be bound by the 'average' of your race - so it does make sense that your race does not need to offer any statistical bonuses. You should be free to be a Strong, Hardy Breton, blessed to withstandard physical punishment with Orc racial bonuses providing this.

But, will Zenimax make these changes quicker than Wizards of the Coast have, or will we have to wait another 38 years to see them!

oorar

Like previous poster said I don't think RPG is a reason to keep racials that effect your gameplay.

FFXIV is another MMORPG where racial bonuses are so minor that they don't affect your end game playing at all. FFXIV was not a game for me but I love how you can pick your race without thinking any end game stuff and you can just pick the race you like the most. It really enhances your gaming experience.

AcadianPaladin

My Bosmeri mage is more negatively impacted by her race in ESO than she ever was in Oblivion or Skyrim when in comes to combat effectiveness.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

oorar wrote: »

I totally agree. "Play the way you want" is a funny quote when your race impacts your stats and effects your gameplay. I know the differences are not that big but race should only be a cosmetic thing. Swimming speed, pick pocketing, crafting inspiration bonus etc. are fine because they don't affect your stats.

i agree. i play mostly mag characters and you just can't argue that high elf is the best for pve dps.

I would actually argue that Dark Elf is better as a PVE DPS. The damage difference is a fraction of a percent (90 magic is nothing, its like effective 8 spell damage), but more stamina means much better for survivability. Also, in the new Hybrid meta, a lot of magic DPS are using stamina skills and vice versa. Makes Dark Elf even further ahead because they can easily use a few stam skills in their rotation and not need to worry about having enough left to dodge, block, or break free.

There is a pretty strong argument just to go Dark Elf on every DPS, both magic and stam at this point. Good for balance, no. Good for lore, well, Dark Elves clearly are the master race in Tamriel.

Hunter_02

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I'm always here to pour cold water on these threads.

As long as ESO continues to view itself as an RPG then it has to respect the pillars of the genre - and that means having distinct races with distinct strengths and weaknesses.

There are also decades of established lore and gameplay canon on the topic that every dedicated TES player has internalized by now. To simply cast that aside would be disrespectful to the series' own history and to the likely large majority of the player base who likes that history just as it is.

There is nothing holding anyone back from making a Nord like Shalidor except their own self-imposed vision of what is and is not sanctioned by the game. That extra ~5% DPS is not going to make or break your ability to clear any content.

As I am concerned, I would do away with racial passives altogether. However, they have been an integral part of the entire ES experience since the days of Arena, so it would be quite disingenuous to the universe to just remove them. That's why I presented an alternative.

I may have gone a bit too ballistic on the significance of racial passives on a character. Naturally you can create all sorts of characters already and clear any kind of content without a problem, making this more of a "cosmetic" issue after all.
This is the reason why I wrote that my idea is just one way to resolve the current "racial status quo", to avoid using the word "problem".

Hmm, but I still find myself willing to place some emphasis on race after all, simply for lore reasons. The compromise would be easy, and has already been suggested here: Give races special, not combat-relevant but quality-of-life-relevant passives.
Khajiit and Argonians could have extra unarmed damage.
Nords could retain their frost resistance, and would be far less affected by the environmental freezing effect some areas have.
Argonians retain their ability to swim faster...and so on.