Imperial faction > Three banners

drsalvation

If you ever see me playing any elder scrolls game where I'm not an imperial, it's safe to assume I've been kidnapped by aliens and you're seeing a very sus version of me, so feel free to off that version of me into space.

I was hyped when this game was announced, and then somewhat disappointed that being an imperial wasn't a choice, but then I saw the imperial edition so I got that and it kinda made my day, I still ride the white imperial horse since I got this game on consoles, the white imperial warhorse is also a cool mount, and I kinda wish that instead of a mudcrab they'd given us a dog instead so that I could still have it as my all-time pet (but no worries, the mudcrab is safe in my manor's pool).
Dunno, it's a weird feeling to say that I was "proud" of being an imperial in this game, I would turn all the armor I got into imperial style, and show off my glorious white horse to my brother who had to save enough to buy a sorrel off the stables.

But unfortunately, there's no imperial faction to join, instead I had to pick any of the three banners, and I only joined the pact because I wanted to play with my brother who wanted to play as a nord.
So naturally, after so many danged years, I got to thinking what could possibly motivate me more to join PvP?

Imagine if imperial city wasn't under siege by molag bal (keep a separate campaign for that time), and if you joined the imperials, you'd start out in the IC before molag.
Imperials won't have a claim to emperorship, however, they could make a truce with the underdog in the three banner war, so if the aldmeri dominion is -as always- overrun by the glorious pact or the barbaric daggers the dominion members could activate a flag in their base to join the imperials as mercenaries and help defend cyrodiil from the others.

The idea that imperials are now a human faction against all 3 banners opens up a lot of possibilities too.
To be able to claim emp, now you'd have to siege the imperial city, the city would come equipped with pre-placed siege weapons that can't be destroyed (or at least accessed by the invaders), and to capture it, you need to hold all six districts, just like in IC, so a multi-directional attack would be more optimal instead of of having only one entry point. And because you need all six districts, you'd be better if you could capture the surrounding forts around the IC.
Only the first underdog faction can join in the city's defense as mercenaries (or keep fighting for their alliance), and while the invading alliance is busy trying to claim all districts, the other factions can begin to take the rest of the map to regain status. Imperials could also take forts to cut out the invader's entry points.
In the end, imperials win if the campaign is over and no faction claimed the throne, and three banners would have the same emp principle, but can only be obtained after successfully taking over the IC.
Maybe imperials could take emperorship too, for motivation purposes.
If a player becomes emp, imperials would need to find and kill that player.
If an imperial dies during the IC siege, they can't respawn until their district becomes free, the siege ends, or they can respawn in the allied base.

I also think that by having human imperials, there's more room for 'negotiations' amongst the other alliances for partial truce (even if not implemented in the game engine, players can team up irl).

Maybe IC could still be instanced, but a separate version from the current molag infested one we have.

I know I'm not considering other things, feel free to point them out. Deep down I just want to be an imperial defending the imperial city.

drsalvation

I think that having all forts in PvP is cool, but it's like, once you have them all, it's easy to keep them all and harder for underdogs to recover. In this case, if you're able to capture them all, it will make your invasion of IC easier, but will make you open for underdogs to begin to recover.

Ragnarok0130

I agree and I’m a similar Imperial player in every TES game. In IC we see Imperial forces fighting the daedra and in Cyrodiil we see Imperial encampments scattered across the land not helping the worms so there is certainly room to make an Imperial faction who is loyal to the Empire and anti-worm cult defending against the alliances. I was also disappointed at launch when you never got any questions on being an imperial in any of the factions like “How can I trust an Imperial you guys sod out to the worm cult?” Or the Imperial forces you interact with not thinking you’re in their side.

The Imperials definitely are an under served race and needs someTLC IMO

ArchMikem

I just sorta roleplay in my head that Elsweyr is still a province of the Empire and my Khajiit, therefore, does service for the Legion. I was also bummed the Empire wasn't a faction.

SerasWhip

I would love to have the Imperials as a separate faction. I mean the good ones, not the devil worshipper kind.

Galiferno

All my imperials, except my evil necromancer and Daedra worshiping sorcerer, are DC because out of the three they're the closest to Imperial loyalists. But if there was a true Imperial faction, it would be my top choice over any of the three current ones.

drsalvation

Yeah, or at the VERY LEAST to make imperial NPCs in Cyrodiil not attack your imperial character. It's a useless perk that doesn't affect PvP in the least, but for the sake of at least roleplay, make it look like they're with you.

DMuehlhausen

The Empire shouldn't be a faction as that is basically what the whole original game was about is there was no Empire left. Imperials were scattered through the lands.

The other reason why it doesn't work is for PvP. PvP never works in a PvE based game anyway, but specially not with even number of factions. You have to 3 factions making it so one faction can always be kept in check by the other 2 (normally). You go to 4 and it will eventually be 2v2 where people will move characters around to the strongest faction causing an imbalance.

Aztrias

Instead of the three banners war my preference would be two(or three) Imperial factions vaying for power in Cyrrodil and you the player could align yourself with one of them in PVP (no Argonian and Dunmer singing kumbaya)

emilyhyoyeon

Imperials are also my favorite race but honestly I'd rather them ''end'' the Three Banners War, rework Cyrodiil and IC into beautiful PVE zones with rebuilt cities, and make a new area for large scale PVP.

Tesman85

Imperials are indeed a tricky race alliance-wise. What alliance would an Imperial player character choose and, most importantly, why? At least the AD is almost out of the question; no Imperial who knows his people's history would side with an Elven wannabe Empress. But then, why DC or EP, either?

The possible motivations are there, but they are not obvious or very strong. Maybe the Pact, because the Nords have already had an Empire before and so know something about running one. One could also think that Jorunn as a person is a strong enough leader to keep things together. But then again, maybe the Covenant. At least in that alliance the human races dominate numerically, and Emeric seems to be a decent ruler.

One could see why an Imperial could choose to join one or the other, but let's be frank. Neither is an absolutely compelling choice, so any Imperial joining would do it mainly out of a desire to get rewards, or sheer desperation to see any decent human being who is able to keep the reins in his hand on the throne. There would hardly be any deeper ideological conviction behind the decision. So, the current situation is a bit awkward to Imperials.

Thus, a fourth faction tailored to Imperials would be nice. Of course, since our characters seem to be shoehorned into heroic roles in the biggest storylines (TG and DB are just sideshows comparatively speaking), the faction being headed by Clivia Tharn is out of the question. So, maybe something centred around guerrilla-like warfare against all other factions and Clivia loyalists? That would ensure lots of action and a wild card to throw into confusion careless alliance groups who didn't remember to take the "loose" Imperials into account. The Imperial Rebels (or whatever the faction would be called) could have no home base in Cyrodiil like the alliances, but would have a damage bonus both against players and structures when attacking a keep. Also, maybe having adjacent forts would give defensive bonuses. The only way to have siege merchants etc. would be to have some keep taken from some alliance. Also, there would be a separate fast travel system for Imperials not centred around keeps, but some other thing. The main thing is that the system should enable fast gathering of forces to one spot and rapid surprise attacks on alliance forces. Of course, there should be penalties that would balance the faction vs. the alliances.

Well, that's a rough outline only, since I myself haven't a clear idea what the Imperial faction should be. I only feel that there should be one and that it should reflect the desperate situation any sensible Imperials would be in in such a war. It should differ from the alliances in some fundamental way. Of course, whatever the faction would be like, Imperial characters shouldn't be forced to join, and other races should be able to join it, too. After all, the idea of the Empire in TES lore is at least in part universalistic - rather like the idea of a Holy Roman Empire in Middle Ages.

Mik195

I think all daedra should be removed from Cyrodil (say, Meridia made it a safe zone from the other princes) and change the premise of the war being to hold safe places for your refugees. An Imperial faction would make sense.

drsalvation

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

Imperials are also my favorite race but honestly I'd rather them ''end'' the Three Banners War, rework Cyrodiil and IC into beautiful PVE zones with rebuilt cities, and make a new area for large scale PVP.

This too, I'd love nothing more than a post-era war to rebuild cyrodiil so we can have places like cheydinhall and chorrol back to their former glory. I'm sure it wouldn't really fit much into the lore, but considering that you can have molag bal, merhunes dagon, rebirth of dragons, a few other major events, and all of them happening simultaneously in the whole game in the middle of the three banner war, I don't think anyone cares too much about an arc where we rebuild cyrodiil. The more major expansions we get, the messier it becomes when you realize all events are happening at the same time. So why not just enforce the idea that everything DOES happen in a separate timeline.

drsalvation

Tesman85 wrote: »

Imperials are indeed a tricky race alliance-wise. What alliance would an Imperial player character choose and, most importantly, why? At least the AD is almost out of the question; no Imperial who knows his people's history would side with an Elven wannabe Empress. But then, why DC or EP, either?

The possible motivations are there, but they are not obvious or very strong. Maybe the Pact, because the Nords have already had an Empire before and so know something about running one. One could also think that Jorunn as a person is a strong enough leader to keep things together. But then again, maybe the Covenant. At least in that alliance the human races dominate numerically, and Emeric seems to be a decent ruler.

One could see why an Imperial could choose to join one or the other, but let's be frank. Neither is an absolutely compelling choice, so any Imperial joining would do it mainly out of a desire to get rewards, or sheer desperation to see any decent human being who is able to keep the reins in his hand on the throne. There would hardly be any deeper ideological conviction behind the decision. So, the current situation is a bit awkward to Imperials.

Thus, a fourth faction tailored to Imperials would be nice. Of course, since our characters seem to be shoehorned into heroic roles in the biggest storylines (TG and DB are just sideshows comparatively speaking), the faction being headed by Clivia Tharn is out of the question. So, maybe something centred around guerrilla-like warfare against all other factions and Clivia loyalists? That would ensure lots of action and a wild card to throw into confusion careless alliance groups who didn't remember to take the "loose" Imperials into account. The Imperial Rebels (or whatever the faction would be called) could have no home base in Cyrodiil like the alliances, but would have a damage bonus both against players and structures when attacking a keep. Also, maybe having adjacent forts would give defensive bonuses. The only way to have siege merchants etc. would be to have some keep taken from some alliance. Also, there would be a separate fast travel system for Imperials not centred around keeps, but some other thing. The main thing is that the system should enable fast gathering of forces to one spot and rapid surprise attacks on alliance forces. Of course, there should be penalties that would balance the faction vs. the alliances.

Well, that's a rough outline only, since I myself haven't a clear idea what the Imperial faction should be. I only feel that there should be one and that it should reflect the desperate situation any sensible Imperials would be in in such a war. It should differ from the alliances in some fundamental way. Of course, whatever the faction would be like, Imperial characters shouldn't be forced to join, and other races should be able to join it, too. After all, the idea of the Empire in TES lore is at least in part universalistic - rather like the idea of a Holy Roman Empire in Middle Ages.

That's a good read! And yeah I agree, it's a tricky situation, in both terms of lore and gameplay.
I think having a separate PvP mode could be ideal, a small version of cyrodiil but with the imperial city as part of the world, It could even be a battleground sort of thing where players queue in for a day long campaign and have it be its own sort of minigame that doesn't affect the 3 banner war campaign.

Rhavein

Well actually I believe adding a 4th faction or Imperials hostile to everyone would improve the PvP as well. Many guilds which are pursuing only PvP and not playing map would move Imperials to be hostile to everyone. This (i have a dream xD) will ease up the faction stacking and provide more distributed fights.

Ragnarok0130

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

Imperials are also my favorite race but honestly I'd rather them ''end'' the Three Banners War, rework Cyrodiil and IC into beautiful PVE zones with rebuilt cities, and make a new area for large scale PVP.

@emilyhyoyeon they could keep the PVP zone of Cyrodiil for PVPers to continue to have fun in and then make a PVE version of IC and Cyrodiil to please everyone and progress the story.

drsalvation

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

Imperials are also my favorite race but honestly I'd rather them ''end'' the Three Banners War, rework Cyrodiil and IC into beautiful PVE zones with rebuilt cities, and make a new area for large scale PVP.

@emilyhyoyeon they could keep the PVP zone of Cyrodiil for PVPers to continue to have fun in and then make a PVE version of IC and Cyrodiil to please everyone and progress the story.

Yeah, it wouldn't make sense to get rid of the best PvP mode just for the sake of PvE story mode lol, but having a "clean up post war" PvE story in Cyrodiil aiding the imperials would be nice too