What's the point?

Akskad

Players are motivated by rewards, these be in form of gold, XP, unique/rare weapons, items to resell in guild stores for a good deal of gold, free costumes, pets etc etc.
This is very basic and logical.
However, this seems to get forgotten far too often. I find myself again and again wondering "what's the point?" when assessing whether to engage in an activity or not.

Some notable examples:

1) Events. You go to the Impresario, you don't like that ugly nth "style pages" that you will never use. You already have the Indrik, the ugly gryphon-ish mount, the minimalistic rewards from the previous year such as those emotes you will never use. There is nothing else interesting to buy from the Impresario. You do not see the value in completing a boring, repetitive quest to get 300 gold as a reward. And you cannot have more than 12 tickets. So what's the point?

2) Achievements. Do this, do that, to get achievement scores. To do what? Nothing. What do you get out of your "achievement score"? Nothing. What's the point?

3) Tales of tribute. You spend a lot of time to win a match, playing a boring card game that comes without instructions and offers miserable rewards and tiny experience.
What's the point?

Etc etc.
Is it so very difficult to realise that many players cannot be bothered to engage in activities that do not bring any measurable rewards?

proprio.meb16_ESO

1) For newcomers events are not that bad, and last one dropped motifs as confetti if you are into that kind of thing. Saberkeel pages were also selling decently at start, as in any event and double xp is always welcome as whatever your cp youre still missing some green perks.

2) Achievements are pretty personal. Its a way of keeping track of your feats and something as a completionist you want to complete to get just a sense of satisfaction. AwA has killed a lot this side of the game. For those of us who play in a certain way achievements actually are a reward.

3) Not amused by it so far, hope i'll change my mind about it... but i find it pretty pointless as well. Will probably play NPCs for achievements/little rewards, not planning to do any pvp match and it has little appeal to me atm.

That said, if the game is stale for you (it's becoming quite so for me, so i'm near that point as well, youre not alone) maybe a break is the best thing... you can return later to play and maybe find it interesting again.
It's a game and first of all must be fun for you to play. If you dont get the rewards youre looking in a game (whatever they are - fun, excitement, or more material ones like items in game) it's probably time to have a little break.

RBAP28

With games in general the ''What's the point?'' question applies to all games. The point with all distractions/entertainment is to find one (or more) that keep you engaged and coming back for more. I have been playing ESO for a long time and still find reasons to come back. Breaks are healthy, and you may find the game even better than before.

Succuby

Game must not force players to do activitys like dayly by good reward.

But for some hard content must be good reward.

Achivment is not a reward. Emotion/skin and etc is.

JKorr

Akskad wrote: »

Players are motivated by rewards, these be in form of gold, XP, unique/rare weapons, items to resell in guild stores for a good deal of gold, free costumes, pets etc etc.
This is very basic and logical.
However, this seems to get forgotten far too often. I find myself again and again wondering "what's the point?" when assessing whether to engage in an activity or not.

Some notable examples:

1) Events. You go to the Impresario, you don't like that ugly nth "style pages" that you will never use. You already have the Indrik, the ugly gryphon-ish mount, the minimalistic rewards from the previous year such as those emotes you will never use. There is nothing else interesting to buy from the Impresario. You do not see the value in completing a boring, repetitive quest to get 300 gold as a reward. And you cannot have more than 12 tickets. So what's the point?

2) Achievements. Do this, do that, to get achievement scores. To do what? Nothing. What do you get out of your "achievement score"? Nothing. What's the point?

3) Tales of tribute. You spend a lot of time to win a match, playing a boring card game that comes without instructions and offers miserable rewards and tiny experience.
What's the point?

Etc etc.
Is it so very difficult to realise that many players cannot be bothered to engage in activities that do not bring any measurable rewards?

Idle curiosity question, no insult intended.... How old are you?

I ask because, for myself my own personal opinion only, I won't bother to engage in any activity that isn't enjoyable and fun for me, no matter what the rewards might be. Of course, real world "events" like jury duty and income taxes that involve possible prison sentences are exceptions to that. Game-wise, if I don't enjoy it and have fine doing it, I won't.

What is the point of rewards? I can earn gold without the effort of completing events. Experience is, for the most part, irrelevant. No weapon or piece of gear is "godkiller" level of powerful, so not that fantastic a reward. Super special items to resell is, again, not really a big deal when simply farming and questing can get the same end result. The costumes and pets are another "yeah, and?" type of thing.Great if you like them, not do much if you don't.

AcadianPaladin

I agree with @JKorr . The only reason I do any activity in game is if it is fun. Any potential rewards are not particularly relevant. I get zero rewards for soloing original zone WBs yet it is one of my fave activities in the game. The way to boost participation (for me) in any activity is to ensure it is fun and I'd prefer to see the focus on making activities more enjoyable, not trying to lure players with shinies.

BlueRaven

Akskad wrote: »

Players are motivated by rewards, these be in form of gold, XP, unique/rare weapons, items to resell in guild stores for a good deal of gold, free costumes, pets etc etc.
This is very basic and logical.
However, this seems to get forgotten far too often. I find myself again and again wondering "what's the point?" when assessing whether to engage in an activity or not.

Some notable examples:

1) Events. You go to the Impresario, you don't like that ugly nth "style pages" that you will never use. You already have the Indrik, the ugly gryphon-ish mount, the minimalistic rewards from the previous year such as those emotes you will never use. There is nothing else interesting to buy from the Impresario. You do not see the value in completing a boring, repetitive quest to get 300 gold as a reward. And you cannot have more than 12 tickets. So what's the point?

2) Achievements. Do this, do that, to get achievement scores. To do what? Nothing. What do you get out of your "achievement score"? Nothing. What's the point?

3) Tales of tribute. You spend a lot of time to win a match, playing a boring card game that comes without instructions and offers miserable rewards and tiny experience.
What's the point?

Etc etc.
Is it so very difficult to realise that many players cannot be bothered to engage in activities that do not bring any measurable rewards?

1) Just because YOU don’t like a particular Impresario selection for an event, does not mean that others don’t like it as well. Your “ugly”, could be desirable to someone else, and maybe other people do not have the indrik, etc.

2) Some people love trying to max out their achievement points. There is a thread that pops up from time to time comparing player achievement points to others. If you are not into it, that is fine. But eso is not alone in this type of system. There is enough games out there that have some type of achievements to show that there must be some demand for it.

3) While I am not a fan of the card game personally, (it’s very confusing to me). I think zos wanted to give taverns more of a purpose in the game, and gave this a shot.

LalMirchi

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I agree with @JKorr . The only reason I do any activity in game is if it is fun. Any potential rewards are not particularly relevant. I get zero rewards for soloing original zone WBs yet it is one of my fave activities in the game. The way to boost participation (for me) in any activity is to ensure it is fun and I'd prefer to see the focus on making activities more enjoyable, not trying to lure players with shinies.

I very much agree with the fun aspect.

The rewards are rather underwhelming (looks at quest bosses ), and these do not make the fun any more fun.

However, to me, this game has a lot of varied activities that one personally enjoys.

ADarklore

At first I wasn't impressed with the card game and found it a bit confusing... but after watching a well-done Youtube 'beginner's guide' I understood it a lot more and think it will be fun (haven't been on PTS to try directly). I used to love playing Yu-Gi-Oh! on computer years ago... and this Tales of Tribute game seems a bit like that IMO.

VaranisArano

Whenever someone starts asking what's the point of an activity based on their own personal opinion of the rewards, I'm strongly reminded of Belethor.



It's up to you to decide if a thing is junk or treasure worth seeking.

Kiralyn2000

Yes. "The point" is that not everyone has the same views & opinions.


(and yeah - if you both 1. don't like an activity, and 2. don't like the rewards from it... do something else. That's why the game has myriad things to do. And why there's other games, if you've exhausted all the things you want/like to do.)

Gray_howling_parrot

So as you'll see there will be a lot of people who will respond to posts like this with "Well, it's just not your cup up tea" or "I enjoy this even though you don't" blah blah blah and completely miss the entire point of the post.

The fact of the matter is that while there are lots of things to do for a new player, there is not a great reward incentive in this game. I'm an achievement junky and I do it just because I enjoy seeing the achievement bar fill up, but to say that achievements don't have great rewards would be an understatement. Where are the mounts, the pets and cosmetics tied to end game activities? Oh I know, behind the crown store. ZOS has forever favored locking some of the most favorable parts of MMOs (mount collection, pet collection, cosmetics) behind a pay wall because they can. There's a population of people in this game that spends an insane amount of money on the crown crates and the purchasable crafting motifs and housing and all of that and it makes up for those of us who complain about it and would rather not have a crown store and have everything earnable in game. Whats the point to them of implementing cool in-game earnable mechanics like rare mount drops or real rewards from achievements when they could put in minimal effort and still have people spend an absolute boat load on the game?

At the end of the day, I don't think every person is supposed to play just one MMO. If you're feeling burnt out and wondering what's the point? Then that means that the game has lost a huge appeal to you and I totally agree with your sentiment. I've taken numerous breaks from the game because it lacks a lot of the repeatable gameplay loops that I treasure personally in MMOs. Try out some other MMOs and when High Isle comes out, come back and try it out for a bit and reevaluate. Games are meant to make you happy! Not hopeless Cheers and Happy Wednesday!

defcon.dealer1b14_ESO

I still enjoy rollin the game even after 8 years. Good, bad and the ugly.....part of any game

jaws343

Jaustink wrote: »

So as you'll see there will be a lot of people who will respond to posts like this with "Well, it's just not your cup up tea" or "I enjoy this even though you don't" blah blah blah and completely miss the entire point of the post.

The fact of the matter is that while there are lots of things to do for a new player, there is not a great reward incentive in this game. I'm an achievement junky and I do it just because I enjoy seeing the achievement bar fill up, but to say that achievements don't have great rewards would be an understatement. Where are the mounts, the pets and cosmetics tied to end game activities? Oh I know, behind the crown store. ZOS has forever favored locking some of the most favorable parts of MMOs (mount collection, pet collection, cosmetics) behind a pay wall because they can. There's a population of people in this game that spends an insane amount of money on the crown crates and the purchasable crafting motifs and housing and all of that and it makes up for those of us who complain about it and would rather not have a crown store and have everything earnable in game. Whats the point to them of implementing cool in-game earnable mechanics like rare mount drops or real rewards from achievements when they could put in minimal effort and still have people spend an absolute boat load on the game?

At the end of the day, I don't think every person is supposed to play just one MMO. If you're feeling burnt out and wondering what's the point? Then that means that the game has lost a huge appeal to you and I totally agree with your sentiment. I've taken numerous breaks from the game because it lacks a lot of the repeatable gameplay loops that I treasure personally in MMOs. Try out some other MMOs and when High Isle comes out, come back and try it out for a bit and reevaluate. Games are meant to make you happy! Not hopeless Cheers and Happy Wednesday!

I don't necessarily agree that there isn't a great reward system. It just may not be to the taste of some people. And honestly, I appreciate a game that doesn't require a robust reward system to keep players engaged. When the content itself is the reward.

But I do agree that if a game isn't to your taste or if you are burnt out on it, forcing yourself to play makes no sense. I have 2 games I play every day (ESO and F76), even if it is just to log in and do a few minutes of chores. And then I have a 3rd game that changes regularly depending on mood or completion of the game (currently Fable 2). The play time of the 3rd game depends heavily on how burnt out I am on the main two.

Agenericname

jaws343 wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

So as you'll see there will be a lot of people who will respond to posts like this with "Well, it's just not your cup up tea" or "I enjoy this even though you don't" blah blah blah and completely miss the entire point of the post.

The fact of the matter is that while there are lots of things to do for a new player, there is not a great reward incentive in this game. I'm an achievement junky and I do it just because I enjoy seeing the achievement bar fill up, but to say that achievements don't have great rewards would be an understatement. Where are the mounts, the pets and cosmetics tied to end game activities? Oh I know, behind the crown store. ZOS has forever favored locking some of the most favorable parts of MMOs (mount collection, pet collection, cosmetics) behind a pay wall because they can. There's a population of people in this game that spends an insane amount of money on the crown crates and the purchasable crafting motifs and housing and all of that and it makes up for those of us who complain about it and would rather not have a crown store and have everything earnable in game. Whats the point to them of implementing cool in-game earnable mechanics like rare mount drops or real rewards from achievements when they could put in minimal effort and still have people spend an absolute boat load on the game?

At the end of the day, I don't think every person is supposed to play just one MMO. If you're feeling burnt out and wondering what's the point? Then that means that the game has lost a huge appeal to you and I totally agree with your sentiment. I've taken numerous breaks from the game because it lacks a lot of the repeatable gameplay loops that I treasure personally in MMOs. Try out some other MMOs and when High Isle comes out, come back and try it out for a bit and reevaluate. Games are meant to make you happy! Not hopeless Cheers and Happy Wednesday!

I don't necessarily agree that there isn't a great reward system. It just may not be to the taste of some people. And honestly, I appreciate a game that doesn't require a robust reward system to keep players engaged. When the content itself is the reward.

But I do agree that if a game isn't to your taste or if you are burnt out on it, forcing yourself to play makes no sense. I have 2 games I play every day (ESO and F76), even if it is just to log in and do a few minutes of chores. And then I have a 3rd game that changes regularly depending on mood or completion of the game (currently Fable 2). The play time of the 3rd game depends heavily on how burnt out I am on the main two.

Thats a fair point, but I do agree with them in that mounts and such should be earned by playing the game.

Akskad

Thank you all for sharing your views. I just made some examples, and am a fairly senior player.
My feeling is shared by a large number of other senior players, so it is not just me.
It is about assessing "the best use of our time", and not wasting it on activities that do not offer any rewards, and certainly not any fun.
Indeed, new players find everything new and exciting, and that's lovely, but senior players may have a different view.

AvalonRanger

Somebody complained about poor reward of Skyrim dolman at the zone chat.
I agree with that. Dragon combat is also. That is really hard and dangerous mission.
Especially lower level player or non tank people. Need some better gold or 2 gold material for daily reward.

katanagirl1

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Somebody complained about poor reward of Skyrim dolman at the zone chat.
I agree with that. Dragon combat is also. That is really hard and dangerous mission.
Especially lower level player or non tank people. Need some better gold or 2 gold material for daily reward.

Similarly the WWB as it has been called in the Deadlands, the Wandering World Boss Havocrels take a whole group of players a few minutes to take down but they have essentially the same drops as probably a delve boss that one can solo in 5 seconds. They should drop unique loot proportional to the amount of effort to kill.

MasterSpatula

Nothing, absolutely nothing, has actual intrinsic value. Everything, from game activity to precious metals, has only the value we put on it.

If you've decided it's all pointless, then it is, at least as far as you're concerned.

DreamyLu

Or you're a player like me, doing only activities I like, for no other reason than liking them. I'm not caring about rewards, even less about achievements and my only selection criteria is what I feel for at login... The true laziness-zero stress way of playing... And from there, to your question: the point to do it? Easily answered: it's fun to me.

drsalvation

Akskad wrote: »

Players are motivated by rewards, these be in form of gold, XP, unique/rare weapons, items to resell in guild stores for a good deal of gold, free costumes, pets etc etc.
This is very basic and logical.
However, this seems to get forgotten far too often. I find myself again and again wondering "what's the point?" when assessing whether to engage in an activity or not.

Some notable examples:

1) Events. You go to the Impresario, you don't like that ugly nth "style pages" that you will never use. You already have the Indrik, the ugly gryphon-ish mount, the minimalistic rewards from the previous year such as those emotes you will never use. There is nothing else interesting to buy from the Impresario. You do not see the value in completing a boring, repetitive quest to get 300 gold as a reward. And you cannot have more than 12 tickets. So what's the point?

2) Achievements. Do this, do that, to get achievement scores. To do what? Nothing. What do you get out of your "achievement score"? Nothing. What's the point?

3) Tales of tribute. You spend a lot of time to win a match, playing a boring card game that comes without instructions and offers miserable rewards and tiny experience.
What's the point?

Etc etc.
Is it so very difficult to realise that many players cannot be bothered to engage in activities that do not bring any measurable rewards?

1 - I have no motivation to do the events other than getting pets, but sometimes the extra xp is good for my alt characters.
2 - titles are nice, thanks to AwA I don't need to kill all sorts of monsters all over again to make my witcher toon have the monster hunter title. Some rewards from achievements are cool, like dyes (to the point where I endured PvP and battlegrounds just for the centurion title and the red dye from battlegrounds), it made my centurion main look way cooler.
But after that, there's no real incentive.
3 - No idea, I haven't played that game, it's just an extra activity you can do.

But to add to your post, what's the point on grinding hard trials and dungeons for gear that is only useful in hard dungeons and trials? Molag Bal is a joke ever since tamriel one update, the story quests speak of dangers that will destroy the world, and while the visuals are great, the final bosses are always choking on their own blood and dying from broken finger nails.
You'd think that Merhunes Dagon invading tamriel would be good motivation for me to gear up from difficult trials and dungeons, but not really, the Dreugh king from fungal grotto I was way more intimidating than molag bal in terms of gameplay and difficulty.
And it made me realize, other than farming gear from dungeons and trials, what else do you use that dungeon and trial gear for? If it's PvP, I'm glad you have an incentive to run those dungeons, but for PvP, you pretty much only need it to run other dungeons and trials.

JKorr

Akskad wrote: »

Thank you all for sharing your views. I just made some examples, and am a fairly senior player.
My feeling is shared by a large number of other senior players, so it is not just me.
It is about assessing "the best use of our time", and not wasting it on activities that do not offer any rewards, and certainly not any fun.
Indeed, new players find everything new and exciting, and that's lovely, but senior players may have a different view.

Been here since beta. Still won't do stuff just because there is a "reward". Didn't buy the idea when my one Aunt offered cookies, chocolate milk and a treat at the Dairy Queen if I cleaned out her garage, not going to go for it now. Best use of my time is enjoying what I'm doing. If it gets to the point I'm only doing something because there is a reward, it will be time to move on to a game I can enjoy.

ixthUA

- events;
- achievements;
- card games;
- PvP;
- housing / furnishings;
- fashion,
dont make character stronger in PvE, and for people who only care about their character's strength such activities are pointless.

SilverBride

Akskad wrote: »

Thank you all for sharing your views. I just made some examples, and am a fairly senior player.
My feeling is shared by a large number of other senior players, so it is not just me.
It is about assessing "the best use of our time", and not wasting it on activities that do not offer any rewards, and certainly not any fun.
Indeed, new players find everything new and exciting, and that's lovely, but senior players may have a different view.

By senior players are you referring to senior citizens or players who have played a long time?

Regardless, I really don't understand the "best use of our time" concept in a game setting. When I am at work, or out running errands, or doing chores at home then I try to be efficient so I have more time for things I find enjoyable. But when I am playing a game to relax anything I choose to do is a good use of my time. I don't rate activities as worthy by what rewards they offer, but rather by what I find fun.

Kahnak

Akskad wrote: »

Players are motivated by rewards, these be in form of gold, XP, unique/rare weapons, items to resell in guild stores for a good deal of gold, free costumes, pets etc etc.
This is very basic and logical.
However, this seems to get forgotten far too often. I find myself again and again wondering "what's the point?" when assessing whether to engage in an activity or not.

Some notable examples:

1) Events. You go to the Impresario, you don't like that ugly nth "style pages" that you will never use. You already have the Indrik, the ugly gryphon-ish mount, the minimalistic rewards from the previous year such as those emotes you will never use. There is nothing else interesting to buy from the Impresario. You do not see the value in completing a boring, repetitive quest to get 300 gold as a reward. And you cannot have more than 12 tickets. So what's the point?

2) Achievements. Do this, do that, to get achievement scores. To do what? Nothing. What do you get out of your "achievement score"? Nothing. What's the point?

3) Tales of tribute. You spend a lot of time to win a match, playing a boring card game that comes without instructions and offers miserable rewards and tiny experience.
What's the point?

Etc etc.
Is it so very difficult to realise that many players cannot be bothered to engage in activities that do not bring any measurable rewards?

Players may be motivated to do in-game activities due to the rewards, but in general people are motivated to play MMO's because they are fun. They don't play them because they expect the game to reward them with digital doodads. If you find yourself playing a game and asking, 'what's the point', then it seems to me that you're not having fun and should probably take a break or play something else. If your response to that is "Well, I think rewards are fun.", I would say that if the only reason you're playing an MMO is it's rewards structure then I don't know a single MMO that is going to be able to satisfy your idea of a good rewards structure.

These examples you have provided are not a criticism of a lack of reward structure - they are your opinion on existing rewards. Many people see gaining new mounts, new 'ugly' style pages/motifs, emotes and mementos as rewarding. Many more people share that sentiment about achievements and game completion. I also think it's a little silly to use the card game as an example when it's not even live and potentially still under development. There really aren't any other examples you could think of?

Look, I'm sure a lot of us saw NefasQ's new video, too, but the opinion of someone who has done just about everything there is to do in the game is not representative of anything but the tiniest portion of the playerbase. You being critical of the rewards is not indicative of a lack of reward structure. This is still the only MMO that has handed out huge player homes simply for logging in and running around an island for about 15 minutes. It's also the only MMO that I'm aware of that hands out mounts and pets for logging in a certain amount of days in a month. So, if those aren't your thing, that's fine, but it's not obvious to me that 'your thing' is going to be found anywhere else.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

If Op's sentiment is that ESO has become 'kinda' Farmville over the recent years, then I agree.

When we first started out we were introduced to content that we had to do in teams. Nowadays we don't even have teams any more (insert reasons why here -> many)

It's ok if you enjoy the more relaxed feeling of logging in to do 'chores', but for many of us, 'chores' do require more of a reward. I think that is why 'crafting writs' and what not are never so popular than when an event is turned towards their benefit.

So chores for chores, hmm. My bath/shower does need some new sealant around the edges. I guess I could do that
(said in a light and joking tone, but with a pinch of realism)

Necrotech_Master

ixthUA wrote: »

- events;
- achievements;
- card games;
- PvP;
- housing / furnishings;
- fashion,
dont make character stronger in PvE, and for people who only care about their character's strength such activities are pointless.

technically speaking pvp does make characters stronger in pve lol

there are many alliance war skills which are useful in pve (or in some cases as far as i know, only used in pve such as warhorn)

ixthUA

PvP skill line can be gained with monthly rewards, which i did. War horn may be useful in trials.

Kalik_Gold

Would love Epic questlines, ala Everquest...
Would love world questline events ala Scarab Lord, Wow...
Would love PvP siege guild based in a new zone like Shadowbane... or Age of Conan.

Miss when things you did had meaning in an MMO. .... except buying the new shiny from Crownstore.

Typing this as I save up for the next Armort style motif coming along to stick on my 18th alt.

kargen27

I play a game to have fun. If I find I'm not having fun I find something else to do.

Agenericname

ixthUA wrote: »

- events;
- achievements;
- card games;
- PvP;
- housing / furnishings;
- fashion,
dont make character stronger in PvE, and for people who only care about their character's strength such activities are pointless.

Caltrops, Vigor, warhorn, revealing flare, barrier, and guard are what Ive seen used in PvE. I believe warhorn was cited because its only really used there.

Achievements, depending on which youre talking about, do in fact make your character stronger. ESO is an action based combat system. The player has as much to do with the relative power as the gear and/or character does. In some cases more.

Obtaining those achievements, like dungeon challengers/trifectas, trials HMs/trifectas, arena challenges, hones the players skills thus making the character stronger.

If youre talking about achievements like Monster Hunter, the explorer achievements, or any of the achievements that wouldnt be as mechanically intinsive as say, Godslayer or Dawn Bringer, then they would still help people hone their skills. Its just a different demographic, but certainly not devoid of opportunites to allow the player to learn.

I tend to think that ZOS should move some of the crown store items to the game in a manner that they can be earned by playing the game. I also think that the reward system we have can be a little lackluster in some areas, but ultimately it boils down to this; if you dont find it enjoyable, dont do it. Entertainment was always the point.