I just want to heal the world...

Austacker

I live across the world in Australia and the lag here for PvP is pretty bad at the best of times.

I'm not really good at PvP at all and I've tried many times, but just cannot keep up doing the DPS 'kill em all' thing. Between the 200+ ping for us down under and my bad reaction times, I just cannot do it.

But there's hope. My main is a healer and I can do that in the PvE space pretty well.

So whilst I want to participate in PvP, I want to change my approach and instead of killing, I just want to heal.

Heal.... and be unkillable.

Now I know people out there already state that healing is out of control for PvP and healers are 'unkillable' in this game, but most of them are not trying to PvP with a high ping.

Question from me is, how can one build a PvP character that just heals, but is almost unkillable... with a high ping?

Is this possible at all?

FYI I main as a Breton Templar. Sustain is wonderful for my race/class, but I still feel very squishy.

If anyone can recommend a build / setup, that would be really appreciated.

I struggle with PvP, but I still want to keep trying to 'git gud' and support my team.

Any feedback welcome

Thanks!

divnyi

You want to get as close to armor cap as it gets, and bump your HP into 30k+ area.

I'd say Gaze of Sithis, as you might miss block opportunity in lags, but you won't miss raw armor/hp. Use reinforced trait, and you should be fairly close to armor cap by itself.

Then, Ironblood is the best mitigation set, because it gives separate huge % reduction.
Downside is movement speed debuff - so just try to stick with your group as hard as possible.

As a healer, sustain is one of the major questions. I don't think you would be able to sustain heavy armor with raw recoveries, even if you take a set for that and stack mundus, jewels - without light cost on heals would be very high and recoveries won't be buffed as well.

You can either just do bigger pools with tristat food and recover with heavy attacks, but that requires some precision and you would need to be conservative with your mana.

Or.. you can go one memeish route. If you don't do any damage at all, you can stay in crouch forever, even if damaged. Yep, you go and grab Darloc Brae jewels / weapon. Can be one bar or both, depends on if you want to grab some weapon set.

Speaking of weapon sets, defensive posture to convert excessive stam to magica might be good idea.

geonsocal

real solid advice from divnyi...focus on your armor rating and health pool...

it's easy to find and use decent aoe healing skills...

turtle up (at least one damage mitigation set and 4 to 5 pieces of heavy armor), figure out how to sustain (potions, heavy attacks, wearing a sustain set)...

the more heavy armor you wear the more "offensive" (infused, divines) traits you can use on your armor as well as offensive traits you can use on your weapons and jewelry...

think about perhaps using a SnB/resto staff set up...

try to slot at least one damage skill per bar, just to make sure you are getting AP for when you are solo...

actually healing is a decent way to make AP in cyrodiil...

Austacker

Thanks for the advice so far guys.

What's the Armor cap at the moment?

Rather than looking at the specific sets here, I'd like to understand what the base caps I should be targeting

ie HP, Magicka, Armor etc

Obviously being crit in a strong damage meta is bad for a healer and healers are often the #1 target for a ball group to ping first (especially when you start throwing out those heals).

I've a good amount of experience as a Healer in PvE (it's been my main since the game's release)

But PvP gives me a lot of trouble and gets frustrating.

Partly because of lag, partly because I suck

fred4

There is no armor cap in PvP. Count on all PvPers having at least 10K pen. Many have more. This makes the armor cap a soft target rather than the hard cap you have in PvE. A friend of mine, who plays PvP tanks, once mentioned that resistances feel useful up to about 45K in PvP. However at that point you're investing so hard in resistances, you should consider what else you can get instead. Always go for sets that are stat-dense. Don't scrape the bottom of the barrel for a particular resource. For example I consider Well-Fitted or even Impenetrable the better traits for PvP than wringing the last bit of resistances from your build via Reinforced or Nirnhoned.

If you're wearing Sithis, you may consider building for health regen. This approach has been nerfed hard, but on the other hand there are so many ways to get health regen, you can still make it work. Between Sithis, Eternal Vigor, an Endurance back bar, Strategic Reserve CP (don't use ultimates), gold food, a tri-pot, and some health-regen multiplier (slot Repentance) you should get to 8K+ health regen in PvE / 4K+ in PvP. This is completely passive and will feel tanky, but while I know that - when you also have high resistances - you can easily hold out against any single player this way, I don't know how this plays in larger battles.

I've tried Sithis, both in PvP and PvE. I am not a fan. I might use it on a templar DD that's jabbing and beaming, because they can't block while doing that anyway. I might use it, if I was going for the very high health regen route. Otherwise, not so much. Really questionable. Blocking with 1 hand and shield is very effective in both PvP and PvP. If you are naked and you just block, you mitigate 55% of damage. More with 1 hand and shield. Nothing else comes close. Clamping down on block with 1 hand and shield while spamming self-heals for a few seconds is very effective. You don't just do that on a reflex against a nightblade (in fact I'm more liable to dodge roll). You do it when you're out of position and under pressure by multiple players. To get moving again you might go into the Spell Wall ultimate. In fact Spell Wall is really good on magplar.

On the other hand, holding block can make you a sitting duck. This is also why, although I haven't played it and the set has a good reputation, Ironblood would probably not work for me personally. You want escape tools that involve movement. You need Race Against Time at a very minimum. You want good stamina sustain, because roll dodging is often your only resort when skills don't fire in lag. Dodging seems to work fairly reliably. This is why I prefer Restoring Focus in PvP. You get some stamina sustain, even while stamina regen is cut off, e.g. while blocking or sprinting.

The next step up from Race Against Time is being a vampire. Let's talk about experienced templars in no lag for a minute. They attack. They defend. They have no issue against a single player. Then, suddenly, another opponent turns up and they develop another defensive gear. Mist Form. Once they do that and they were hard to kill before, I know it's pretty hopeless. A single other opponent won't make a difference. I'm talking about a good templar encountering randoms here, of course. Your number one tool, and theirs, to deal with pressure is always positioning. Line of sight. Trees, structures, boxes, buildings, resource towers. Mist Form is the way to get you there when you were previously more out in the open.

Aside from Mist Form, you may also consider being a stage 4 vampire and sprinting. After 3 seconds of sprinting you become invisible. The number one reason you get killed in Cyrodiil is by being in the wrong place. Once that happens, you need a way to recover. And it will happen. Battle lines shift within seconds. Losing track of where you should be relative to your mates and enemies is probably the single reason how everyone gets killed. Either that or they were the last one standing. Absent being a streaking sorc, your way to keep up and recover your position are speed tools. Swift jewelry, Wild Hunt, Race Against Time, Mist Form or plain going invisible when you sprint, then changing direction.

As I don't play healers I can't be specific on how to build those. I do want to mention two armor sets I like, though. One is really obvious. Rallying Cry. It helps your group and it gives you some serious crit resistance, the kind that's been hard to get in recent patches, at least not without a lot sacrifices. Rallying Cry is what I'd call a stat-dense set and it has stats you really want. The only problems are that everyone is wearing it already and that it's not great in large groups. It is technically a healer set, though.

My second recommendation is Zoal. I love that set on melee classes and to defend against melee classes. While being sniped is one of the issues you will face, many nightblades are melee. If you get ganked, that typically involves the nightblade stunning you. With Zoal and Slippery CP, you stun them right back. It gains you precious time to dodge roll or to recover by block-casting Honor the Dead. As a nightblade I can tell you that Zoal is extremely annoying to fight against. If you get zerged down, Zoal will stun the whole zerg, at least those that are close to you. Nothing better to give you time for Race Against Time, Mist Form, and so on. That said, I play a squishy, high movement templar. Zoal is one of my few concessions to defense. On a tankier build you would probably need it less. Magma Incarnate or Engine Guardian may be better bets.

fred4

Austacker wrote: »

What's the Armor cap at the moment?

In PvE: 33K. In PvP: The hard cap depends on the penetration of your opponent. It's 33K + the penetration of your opponent. The latter could be 20K+ and it's not hard for them to get there. Balorgh alone gives you up to 11K. In other words: You technically can't have enough resistances. The actual cap is beyond your reach. You will also occasionally have to deal with DKs running Corrosive Armor or the odd Onslaught build, both of which negate your armor. This be another reason why I think the option to block and maybe running resto + 1 hand and shield should be better than Gaze of Sithis.

Rather than looking at the specific sets here, I'd like to understand what the base caps I should be targeting

ie HP, Magicka, Armor etc

HP: 30K
Armor: 30K, maybe 35K if you can get there without too many sacrifices

Magicka: It only matters, if you're running a healing proc set such as, say, Hiti's Hearth. Templars have a spell damage passive. Templars, in general, should build for spell damage and magicka regen, not magicka. That said, I would aim for a minimum of 25K. Lower than that is not nice to play.

fred4

You made me think about playing a healer. Without further ado:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=440911

Of course this is entirely theory-crafted and, therefore, unproven. I am, however, a PvPer and I have played magplar. Moreover I like talking about builds and I know you're looking for the "why". Here we go:

Set-wise, I have no idea what healers run, except I know Rallying Cry, Magma and Markyn are meta sets in general. You want spell power for your healing, as well as tankiness. Each of those sets gives you both! Furthermore, if you're not playing a vampire and you want to survive, then you better have Race Against Time, Swift and good stamina sustain. That's why Restoring Focus, not Channeled, and Wretched Vitality, a back bar set I also run on my DD templar.

If there is one thing I'm not sure about, it's the use of heavy armor. Just looking at the stats, the outright sustain seems poor. I've never been fond of heavy armor, but it seems appropriate for this build. If I played this for a while and didn't feel fast or sustainy enough, I'd swap in some medium or light. I guess it will be some resto heavy attacks with this.

Regarding skills, Sweeps is there so you can fight, if you are forced to. You might slot Radiant Glory instead, to beam people from behind enemy lines and help your group that way.

Inner Light: You want crit. You don't have to cast it. You don't have to get it from a potion. You balance out your magicka between the front bar and the back bar (the back bar shield has a magicka enchant). In terms of potions: Major Sorcery, Detection, Magicka. I don't use the potion selector bar in combat, thus I prefer having a Detection potion permanently slotted.

Combat Prayer: I never realised how strong this skill is. Seems to eclipse templar's Healing Ritual totally. There is some overlap with Magma Incarnate, but that doesn't have 100% uptime.

Radiating Regeneration: A no-brainer. Everyone runs it, right? You certainly don't need another burst heal, so this morph it is.

Echoing Vigor: It's the hybrid patch. Let's stack this with Radiating Regen .

Life Giver: I don't like the templar ult where you sit still. That just means you delay the inevitable. I would therefore choose Life Giver this patch, but would just as likely run Spell Wall in practice. I think I might go so far as slotting Temporal Guard, the psijic ult, as an escape tool here.

Living Dark: The skill that makes templar OP. Use it for self-defense.

Honor the Dead: This has to be on the back bar. If you are pressured, block, spam this, and put up Living Dark. Try to use Race Against Time into a dodge roll when you can or try to get to the Spell Wall ult.

Restoring Focus: Mandatory. Enough said.

Extended Ritual: Templar signature PvP skill. Equally mandatory, even though Plague Break exists.

Race Against Time: You're not a vampire? Then this is also mandatory.

Spell Wall: So good.

SkaraMinoc

A friendly rebuke.

divnyi wrote: »

I'd say Gaze of Sithis, as you might miss block opportunity in lags, but you won't miss raw armor/hp

Are you sure this is a good idea?

Sithis: 3276 health, 4000 armor (6% mitigation)
Block with 1H+Shield: 70%+ mitigation from block, 1995 armor (3% mitigation) from shield

6% vs 73%+

You'd have to miss over 90% of your blocks for Sithis to mitigate more damage.

divnyi wrote: »

Then, Ironblood is the best mitigation set, because it gives separate huge % reduction.
Downside is movement speed debuff - so just try to stick with your group as hard as possible.

Ironblood should really only be used if the healer is having problems with Corrosive Armor.

Arkasis or Rallying Cry (or both) is a better choice, assuming you have a good team that can utilize those sets.

Olorime is pretty standard on a Templar healer.

divnyi wrote: »

As a healer, sustain is one of the major questions. I don't think you would be able to sustain heavy armor with raw recoveries, even if you take a set for that and stack mundus, jewels - without light cost on heals would be very high and recoveries won't be buffed as well.

Heavy is too good to not use on a PvP healer.

• extra armor
• max health
• resist from passive
• block mitigation
• sustain when blocking
• +% incoming healing
• physical mitigation (anti nb, stamcro, stamsorc, etc)

I suggest figuring out how to manage sustain while wearing 5 heavy + 1 med 1 light.

fred4

SkaraMinoc, I agree with your first points. I would neither run Ironblood nor Sithis and I think divnyi also seems to be unclear on how the resistance cap works in PvP. I also agree that you can easily be one shot, if you are too squishy. That said, I don't think heavy armor is the only path to tankiness and I find it funny that you should quote a magsorc as your one shot example. Light armor gives you spell resistance. Heavy armor gives you a magickal damage penalty. Furthermore, a one shot that includes Curse and 2x Overload is not a one shot. Or at least not a gank. At the end of the day, lag or not, you still have to learn how to PvP. You're a templar. You have 3.5 seconds to cleanse that curse.

I just put together my above theory-crafted magplar and took it into IC. As I had some Wretched Vitality already made in light, I ended up with 3x heavy, 1x medium, 3x light and a Defending back bar. Fully buffed with Restoring Focus and Combat Prayer / Magma, I still have 30K physical and 34K magical resistance on the back bar. Two inexperienced players that accosted me could do absolutely nothing. I killed one with Sweeps. I then soloed a boss. Very comfortable. This is why you want Sweeps by the way. NPCs / bosses in IC and in keeps / resources. Sustain seems right where it needs to be. Very happy with the build.

Cuddlypuff

Just a suggestion from a fellow Australian. Use a VPN and set the endpoint as close to California as possible. The closest Akamai scrubbing center to the NA servers is in San Jose. Do not let the game route you through the Sydney center - the routing is absolute garbage and takes you through Hong Kong and god knows wherever else.

SkaraMinoc

fred4 wrote: »

I find it funny that you should quote a magsorc as your one shot example. Light armor gives you spell resistance. Heavy armor gives you a magickal damage penalty. Furthermore, a one shot that includes Curse and 2x Overload is not a one shot. Or at least not a gank.

Spell resist bonus from Light armor doesn't make up for the reduced armor values on the pieces themselves.

It's not a pure 1shot on Mag Sorc. That's not possible.

From 100% -> 0% health it's about 1.5 seconds. 70% of that damage is done instantly.

I'm not going into the specifics of the combo.

fred4 wrote: »

You're a templar. You have 3.5 seconds to cleanse that curse.

That doesn't work in high level Battlegrounds with Plaguebreak. Even without Plaguebreak you only have 3 global cooldowns to cleanse and that's not possible when spamming heals. Forcing a Templar cleanse is a good way to drain their magicka.

fred4 wrote: »

I just put together my above theory-crafted magplar and took it into IC.

IC builds are different than Deathmatch builds. Two completely different things.

fred4

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I find it funny that you should quote a magsorc as your one shot example. Light armor gives you spell resistance. Heavy armor gives you a magickal damage penalty. Furthermore, a one shot that includes Curse and 2x Overload is not a one shot. Or at least not a gank.

Spell resist bonus from Light armor doesn't make up for the reduced armor values on the pieces themselves.

It's not a pure 1shot on Mag Sorc. That's not possible.

From 100% -> 0% health it's about 1.5 seconds. 70% of that damage is done instantly.

I'm not going into the specifics of the combo.

fred4 wrote: »

You're a templar. You have 3.5 seconds to cleanse that curse.

That doesn't work in high level Battlegrounds with Plaguebreak. Even without Plaguebreak you only have 3 global cooldowns to cleanse and that's not possible when spamming heals. Forcing a Templar cleanse is a good way to drain their mana. Mag Sorcs have near infinite sustain thanks to Dark Convergence and Torc.

fred4 wrote: »

I just put together my above theory-crafted magplar and took it into IC.

IC builds are different than Deathmatch battlegrounds. Two completely different things.

Noted, but bear in mind that the OP did not specify whether they play in BGs, IC, Cyro, CP or no CP.

SkaraMinoc

fred4 wrote: »

Noted, but bear in mind that the OP did not specify whether they play in BGs, IC, Cyro, CP or no CP.

This is true. Maybe they don't like Battlegrounds at all. In that case, I'm out I only play Deathmatch.

fred4

Update after playing some more in IC: It brawls nicely in an AvA. Much tankier than what I'm used to. Probably unkillable 1v1. People - nightblades - tried. Two good players could kill me when I was alone, but it feelt like that was partially my fault on a new build. It must be possible to do better.

divnyi

@SkaraMinoc OP specifically asked for lag-secure build. Block is not lag-secure. I do have permablock healer and it requires a lot of motion to stay on resources.

Ironblood and Sithis are there without any action from you.

And you are incorrect about healing in light, it is possible and have some strong advantages in amount of healing done.
My best healer is NB that has cloak and shade to avoid getting targeted in the first place. Light armor sets push my crit to 84% on frontbar, with Feline Ambush it gets the modifier that is impossible to obtain in any other way.
But you know why I didn't mention it here? Because OP asked for something else entirely

Sithis: 3276 health, 4000 armor (6% mitigation)

+6% armor mitigation is more than 6% mitigation.

Since Darloc Brae requires vampy, you would go for vampy3 and elusive mist when you expect to get a lot of damage.

There is no armor cap in PvP. Count on all PvPers having at least 10K pen. Many have more. This makes the armor cap a soft target rather than the hard cap you have in PvE. A friend of mine, who plays PvP tanks, once mentioned that resistances feel useful up to about 45K in PvP. However at that point you're investing so hard in resistances, you should consider what else you can get instead.

While true that pen exists and it's possible to remove a lot of armor, lot of players don't go for any pen and go for dot procs and pure WD boosts instead. You gimp yourself in these matchups. I never regret having *just* 33k armor, it is enough for the most purposes, you should focus on how can you get more sustain and stronger heals instead of boosting armor further.

mocap

1) stack heals: ritual mundus, medium armor (5/1/1) with at least 4 golden divines, powered trait (+Heartland Conq set an option), Troll King+Earth Gore.
2) Mist Form
3) win

geonsocal

what's better than @fred4 and @SkaraMinoc diving in on some build theory crafting - forum wise - not much...

no secret here that i'm not exactly a numbers/spreadsheet type eso player, to be honest i just like hanging out in cyrodiil a lot, and i've been doing for a while now so i've accidently learned some stuff...

i can't tell you how much i've learned over the years from the both of you (and others of course)...you both write well and some how are able to communicate in a civil manner - which to be honest doesn't always seem so easy for us pvp folks

geonsocal

Rather than looking at the specific sets here, I'd like to understand what the base caps I should be targeting

before reading this i actually went through the gear on my two magplars (one on each server) and also my magwarden and magcro...

seems my magplars aren't really set up so much for just healing...they're more set up for damage: spell power cure, war maiden/spinners/vicious death and balorgh...i'm actually using five light on each (monster set is in heavy)...

i use my magwarden and magcro as support healing toons...they're wearing stuff like: mark of the pariah, juggernaut, earthgore, julianos, spell power cure...one's using SnB/resto, the other ice destro/resto...they're both using 5 heavy/2 light...

i've never ever put together an "unkillable" build, the thought has never really even crossed my mind - if at all possible, i'd much rather kill than be killed

my gear and skills are more focused on a solo playstyle, so i can do decent aoe heals, but, mostly i'm trying to make sure i stay alive...

Edit: too funny fred - IC is where i go to test new builds...it doesn't give you such a great idea of how the build will function in a group environment, but, you definitely get a good idea regarding your survivability and sustain...

the execute enemies part of pvp has more to do with rotations, timing, and fight experience...for new builds the real challenge for myself is:
a). figuring out exactly how much damage i can take and still survive (this helps me to understand what type situations i can get in and out of)...
b)/ can i sustain my skills (and blocking/roll-dodging/sprinting) with the build...

Austacker

Sorry everyone, I should have been more clear.

I'm a casual in the PvP space, mostly because I'm bad at it and I get frustrated easily with both the lag and my lack of skill.

I've dropped countless gold into building sets over the years trying to buy my way to 'git gud' but as you all know, you can't do that - you need to have both experience and ability - and honestly, I have neither.

I've had a crack at Magplar and whilst it's fun, it's not my main style of play. I also find that even just a little bit of lag is a death sentence more often than not.

But so often I'll be in BGs or IC and see players who can take a ridiculous beating, 1vX all day and not even bother with mist form or RAT. They just take it on the chin and laugh and I always wonder how the hell do they even do that?

Anyway, I'm the sort of player who prefer the support roles. I don't have really great relflexes anymore or the desire to spearhead an attack. I always prefer to sit back and throw out the buffs and heals and contribute to my team that way.

It's not much, but it's honest work as the saying goes

But I've found in countless BGs and IC adventures that smart players see that squishy healer in the backline and target them very regularly.

Then it's usually stun, lock, dead and I'm left still spamming buttons to try and break free before I'm hitting respawn.

I'm just sick of having to hit respawn so often.

Don't get me wrong, I know everyone dies over and over in PvP, that's what it's all about.

I'm just searching for that elusive build that allows me to continue playing that anchor support role, without becoming paste the second a DPS sees me and thinks 'nice, easy kill'.

I've heard mention of Magma Incarnate as the 'go to' monster set for a healer, what about Lord Warden Dusk?

In terms of gear sets, I cannot seem to find a common consensus on the heavy/medium/light balance, opinions there are all over the place

But the actual gear sets I'm still trying to work out. Rallying Cry seems to be the latest hotness, but apart from one full set it seems like the common feedback is go for a mix otherwise and run the Markn Ring of Majesty

Is creating a Healer build around the Mythic really that much better than running the traditional 5/5/2 setup?

See, this is where I tend to get so lost when it comes to building a PvP setup over PvE.

A healer in PvE is made for people like me, simple 5/5/2 builds that make sense.

In PvP, it's a kaleidoscope of different views, builds and opinions that's really just confusing for a casual like me to even understand, yet alone implement effectively.

I know a lot of that is on me as a player to invest the time to learn and improve my skills, I'm just pointing out the vast gulf of knowledge and technical complexity in this game between the PvE and PvP environments.

A high school diploma is all you need to be a good - even great - PvE healer in ESO

In comparison, you need 20 years experience and a doctorate to be even close to on par as a good player for PvP.

I do honestly understand why so many people don't even bother trying PvP in ESO.

It's HARD!

geonsocal

Austacker wrote: »

A healer in PvE is made for people like me, simple 5/5/2 builds that make sense.

In PvP, it's a kaleidoscope of different views, builds and opinions that's really just confusing for a casual like me to even understand, yet alone implement effectively.

I know a lot of that is on me as a player to invest the time to learn and improve my skills, I'm just pointing out the vast gulf of knowledge and technical complexity in this game between the PvE and PvP environments.

i do use some mythics, i'll use new ones if they help...

i keep 17 toons ready to pvp...just like pve - it also helps to keep it simple with pvp...what i mean by that is i don't want to be having to think too hard about my set procs while actually playing...fairly straightforward mag gear like julianos, spinners, spell power cure, war maiden, crafty alfiq, bright throat boast, necropotence, etc.

i'm not a big fan of gear farming (arenas, dlc dungeons, trials)...

i'm a pretty mediocre player, i've just been doing it so long i've figured out acceptable gear and rotations for all different kinds of builds...

the truth though - there are just other players out there who put in more time researching and acquiring gear than i do...there are people who just play one pvp playstyle for extended periods - almost impossible for me to match someone's rotations when i'm constantly changing toons - there are simply people who are better at video games (including eso) than me

wear 5 heavy, 2 light, infused large pieces, divines, well-fitted, impenetrable to your desire...infused weapons and jewelry if possible...

wear mark of the pariah (or juggernaught), and some offensive set...use earthgore/engine guardian/chokethorn...

if you're set on using a magplar as your healer, go resto/ice destro (it gives you a little extra defense)...if you don't want to slot degeneration or depend on potions for major sorcery maybe even try out rattlecage, that comes in heavy...

for a pvp noob friendly pvp support build - i'd suggest warden or necromancer because of their ultimates...the warden can pretty much spam healing thicket, great skill, the necromancer has the ravenous goliath, which makes you extremely hard to kill for 20 seconds...

go sword and board/resto...make sure you have a health draught quickslotted - make sure you pay extra attention to your potion and ultimate use timing...

if you have the time/desire - the psijic skill line goes well with this type playstyle focus...

i can help with rotations if you're interested...this is a pretty pvp noob friendly build...shouldn't take too long to put together, unlikely to kill others 1 v 1 (all although you can still gain AP simply remembering to attack folks in between healing folks), sustain can be tricky (witchmother's potent brew, resto heavy attacks, bright throat boast gear can all help)...

took me years to finally try out a healing build in cyrodiil, i have a blast with it now...it's fun keeping allies alive during sieges and combat...

Austacker

Thanks for the help!

I'm a 'one toon' sort of player and have been since launch. I suffer from OCD (for real) so I only ever roll the one character and that's all I play.

Breton Templar

I main heals and have been doing it since the game launched for PvE. I've dabbled for a little Magplar PvE/PvP at times, but I always come back to the healer role, it's just what I enjoy most.

For group PvE I just play healer. Mostly casual (as I don't have any friends to play this game with - but that's okay), so I focus a lot on the 4 man content and the odd 12 man PUG out of Craglorn when I get the urge. I'm golded across the board for my PvE healer build and play it mostly for the fun of it. It's easy for me and I've been doing it forever so there's that.

For solo play I usually run a Magplar / Shield heavy build (think the Novashield build?). It's not a high DPS build (averages around 15-20k DPS) with a tonne of Damage shields. Perfect for when I'm farming or doing solo content. Again, there I know what I'm doing and I'm not hard core, just play to stay alive and clear content. Easy enough.

But PvP? That's a whole different kettle of fish. I've toyed and tinkered with many builds over the years and I'm yet to find one that I can comfortably play as a Breton Templar healer. I have the time and resources to chase the gear needed (I'm nearly 2000CP too). I just find the whole process around building a PvP character so difficult and the playstyle so much harder is all.

I've seen the current Meta that was discussed above with the Magma Incarnate & Markyn Mythic. I don't have Rallying Cry yet, but that's an easy farm - I have full Olorime / SPC (as any decent end game healer would). It's just finding the right balance of gear weight (light, medium, heavy) and correct mix of traits / stats as a baseline.

...then the 'real' hard part begins in actually learning how to play it.

I know healers are hard focused by experienced players. The best healers can 1vX easily, but I often get stun locked and smeared in a 1/4 second, even if I'm spamming RAT (lag monster gets me every time).

It's frustrating, which is why I'm here to try and learn more. But honestly, it's actually difficult to find feedback that's actually helpful to learn from. A LOT of people love to show off their knowledge (to a degree) but finding something both practical and proven has proven to be a very difficult task.

Especially since a LOT of the discussion around PvP gear and builds are often subjective. Even on this thread so far I've seen a lot of suggestions already with counter arguements of why it's no good or sub par.

It's almost like when it comes to PvP builds... there is no real BIS option and it's highly subjective on what the 'best' way to play is.

Like I said before... a vast gulf between the PvE world where common consensus on BIS gear / builds are not hard to find.

PvP is completely different I find!

divnyi

Austacker wrote: »

It's almost like when it comes to PvP builds... there is no real BIS option and it's highly subjective on what the 'best' way to play is.

You got it absolutely correctly btw. There are things that are known to be working good (skills, sets) and things that are known to be working bad. Ultimately, the specific built is the artifact of the player who knows how to use it, that's why raw build do nothing without demonstration of what it does in a form of vid (I'll try to assemble what I was talking about btw, but don't expect it soon).

PvE healer is not really a healer - it's fairly easy to outheal everything PvE brings even without healing sets. In other MMOs it is called "buff class". 5-5-2 setup you descriped is picked exactly because all the relevant team-buff sets are in this constraints.

PvP healer only needs 2 things: to be able to outheal incoming damage for the group, don't die. First part implies that you need to do LOT MORE healing than what you do in PvE, so you need to stack healing numbers on your heals high and have sustain & pools to continuously heal. Second part implies tank-healers as meta for PvP, because PvP players pack very high burst, you need armor and HP not to die in 2 sec in stuns without being able to heal yourself, also sometimes need to react correctly to the skills enemy do. Buffs are nice, but they are far from mandatory.

But how to achieve that, and how much sustain, power and tankiness do you want - that is personal thing. Also the ways to achieve that are different.

fred4

Austacker wrote: »

I've dropped countless gold into building sets over the years trying to buy my way to 'git gud' but as you all know, you can't do that - you need to have both experience and ability

Indeed.

I've had a crack at Magplar and whilst it's fun, it's not my main style of play.

Colour me confused. If your one and only character is a Breton Templar, then you are by definition a magplar. Breton is the one race that does not lend itself to stamplar. I suppose you meant to say you don't like being a DD?

But so often I'll be in BGs or IC and see players who can take a ridiculous beating, 1vX all day and not even bother with mist form or RAT. They just take it on the chin and laugh and I always wonder how the hell do they even do that?

The number one factor is the quality of their opponents. 10 bad players are probably the same as one good player. I'm overstating it, but only a little. The number two factor is: They know how to play. They are actively defening, maintaining their resources, line of sighting, keeping their buffs and heals up. They probably have duelling experience and they watch what you do and what everyone else does. They dodge and block, but only the stuff that really needs to be dodged or blocked, so they don't run down their stamina. In third place, far behind the first two factors, is their build.

There are also social factors at play. Many of the top players have duelled each other in Alik'r. This tends to breed mutual respect. If a good player from your faction sees someone from another faction, who they know and respect, having a 1vX, they may stand back and not get involved. Among some people it is frowned upon to Xv1 players. This is one way a successful 1vX happens. The 1vXer ends up playing only against "nameless" players who are neither very good nor organised. Indeed one tactic for 1vXing is to go deep into enemy territory in Cyrodiil, turn a resource and then wait there. The players who turn up to defend that resource are frequently noobs, not the more experienced - or at least organised - players fighting on the frontline somewhere. Don't be fooled. It's not all as it seems.

Then it's usually stun, lock, dead and I'm left still spamming buttons to try and break free before I'm hitting respawn.

If you are on PC and have not already done so, remap the bash / break free key to a separate button. After that you honestly need some duels to hone your break free reflex, preferably against a DK who uses Fossilize. Also use Slippery CP, but that won't help all the time.

I'm just searching for that elusive build that allows me to continue playing that anchor support role, without becoming paste the second a DPS sees me and thinks 'nice, easy kill'.

Unfortunately those DPS have campaigned against unkillable builds over the years, maybe rightly so. Anything OP, be it offensive or defensive, is also open to abuse by accomplished players.

I've heard mention of Magma Incarnate as the 'go to' monster set for a healer, what about Lord Warden Dusk?

Lord Warden is a small ground-based effect. PvP is all about movement. In other words: That's a complete no. Even if you're thinking of staying put, that's still only 3.5K resistances, or so.

Magma is a group support set. It benefits not just you, but everyone around you, although it overlaps with Combat Prayer. It also has a very good one piece bonus. The reason things are meta is usually not because they are OP, but because they are marginally better than everything else. People like Markyn, because it has no drawbacks (unlike many other mythics) and it gives you rather a lot of stats for a one piece. Rallying Cry, though, gives you something that has become quite rare in PvP: A lot of added critical resistance. It also has a really nice proc condition that makes it back barrable, if you so choose. On the other hand, everyone and their mom is already wearing Rallying Cry and it gets diluted in groups. I actually just added Spell Power Cure and Transmutation as alternatives for my templar.

In terms of gear sets, I cannot seem to find a common consensus on the heavy/medium/light balance, opinions there are all over the place

Because, contrary to popular opinion, the game is actually quite well balanced. Heavy armor ruled in the past. It got nerfed, the jewelry of the sets became transmutable, leading to more varied builds, and so on. I think the main difference in heavy relates to movement and sustain. You don't get medium's sprint speed boost. You don't get medium's and light's dodge roll cost reduction. On the other hand you sustain from being attacked and you get a blocking bonus. This makes heavy armor the "I'm staying in the thick of things" armor, but also the "I'm doing that, because I can't get away" armor. I've personally never liked how heavy armor feels to play, although it may suit you. In terms of reaching the resistances that heavy armor provides, there are ways to match whatever your target is in a medium or light setup, notably by using Markyn, Magma or Sithis.

fred4

@Austacker, so basically you want the holy grail. I just tried something. Ironblood, Cyrodiil's Light, 1x Markyn, 1x Trainee, 5/1/1 heavy. (Aren't you happy I'm farming every last set for the stickerbook and have transmute crystals to spare.) Lingering Flare slotted. The idea was to meditate and have some ridiculous non-blocking mitigation stacked up against the tryhards in IC while my heals were ticking. 30% from Ironblood. 30% from meditating. About 40% from resistances. 15% from Cyrodiil's Light. 10% from Revealing Flare. Bear in mind these are multiplicative. They don't add up to 100%, but they add up to 77.5% with everything procced. Hmm. Same as Mist Form. Anyway, the upshot was: It felt like utter crap. I got killed. Not immediately, but easily enough. Meditation can be interrupted and Ironblood does not proc all the time.

IMO you're not going to get around these two things:

1. Attacking skills cost half as much as defensive skills. The attacker always has a sustain advantage and can spec harder into damage while their occasional heals are strong. 1v1, at least, you have to put people on the defensive or at least that should IMO be part of your toolkit to use some of the time. I've tried outright tank specs that have had no pretensions of healing others in the past. Even that is not so easy. I know people who do it well, but it's yet another skillset. It doesn't just happen passively (unless with WW or some Crimson Twilight builds in the past).
2. No one knows every playstyle equally well. I have some hard biases for stamina sustain, even on magicka classes, for example. Everything I say comes from how I play. Sometimes I notice a similar bias in other players, for example in the Real Godzilla, a YouTuber. He plays and likes the same classes as me and shares a dislike of magsorc. Clearly, though, while magsorc may no longer be meta, it was for a long time and there are still good magsorcs out there. Incidentally that is also such a specialised class, the last class that often builds for high magicka, you couldn't take armor set recommendations for a magsorc and apply those to something else. Just another example of why buildcraft is complicated.

My theory-crafting and playstyle evolved hand in hand. My skill layouts carry between classes to some degree. There are certain things I will never live without, notably RAT in all of my magicka builds. My knowledge is hampered by not having played vampire much. When I try to play someone else's build, it frequently feels like garbage. I suspect it may end up being the same for you. You can't really get around evolving your own build and playstyle together, even at the risk of ending up in a dead end from time to time. One of the best decisions I made two or three years ago was to stick with one class and one type of build for a couple of months, learning and refining it properly.

geonsocal

wow, learning a whole bunch from everyone - thank you all so much...great questions @Austacker , phenomenal feedback @divnyi , @fred4 , @SkaraMinoc ...

you know @Austacker , i'm starting to wonder if you're not sandbagging us a bit...it sounds like you're more familiar with the gear, race and class than i am

i'm not really sure why you may be dying a bunch while trying to keep up your healing...

good to hear you're already using a SnB/resto set up...if you already have SPC, seriously, just add 5 heavy julianos or rattlecage, put on earthgore and call it a day, use your gear traits to pump up your magicka/health/damage/...

with 5 heavy armor, rune focus, rushed ceremony, and a health draught quikslotted - you shouldn't be too easy to gank, at all...with a SnB bar you should be able to at least stalemate multiple folks targeting you...

i would suggest maybe logging on solo in to cyrodiil, find an outpost and just hang out and fight and respawn a bunch...the healing part is easy, you need to get comfortable staying alive in chaos...

go find out exactly how much damage you can take before dying, then figure out how to block/line of sight/roll dodge to stay alive a bit longer, then work on timing your potions and ultimates to keep you alive even a little longer...

geonsocal

what's your current rotations looking like @Austacker ?

Austacker

geonsocal wrote: »

wow, learning a whole bunch from everyone - thank you all so much...great questions @Austacker , phenomenal feedback @divnyi , @fred4 , @SkaraMinoc ...

you know @Austacker , i'm starting to wonder if you're not sandbagging us a bit...it sounds like you're more familiar with the gear, race and class than i am

Not at all!

I am definitely experienced at the game as I've been playing since it was first released on Console & I've mained a healer since day one.

I used to play World of Warcraft for many years (from release to mid Pandaria) and although I played all roles at one point or another, I became a healer main in that game too in the final few years I played before I switched over to console and started ESO.

Healer is the role I enjoy most in MMOs, so that's what I tend to gravitate to.

I'm an older player (in terms of age) and because I'd played basically the one class since the game launched, I'd like to think I know the ins and outs of it well - it's just the vast majority of that knowledge is in the PvE space.

PvP has my focus now because I'm striving to encapsulate the full ESO 'experience'. I've dabbled in PvP many times over the years, but because it's so difficult for me to pick up and 'git gud' at it, I've have many failed starts.

But looking at the success found by others, I KNOW that a Magplar heals can be S tier in the right hands for sure - it's just that I have butter fingers over the class at the moment

Despite the difficulties I face in both my lag situation playing half way across the world in Australia, to the simple fact I am slower and have less reaction time to the people half my age playing, I'm determined to keep learning and whilst I'll never likely be a top tier PvPer myself, I at least want to know enough so that I can make a decent contribution to my team on the battlefield, whilst I get to enjoy the full experience the game offers.

Like far too many ESO players, for years I've rolled my eyes at the odd PvP event that the game brings.

I really want to switch that completely and start looking forward to it.

I just know that there's a steep learning curve for me here and whilst I've had many false starts before, this time I'm determined to stick with it and improve my play.

One major factor in getting there is being able to properly understand where I've been going wrong to begin with and build from that foundation of not just playstyle, but the theory craft behind it.

I tell you this much though, for all my knowledge of the game mechanics and the PvE side of ESO, the PvP side is definitely and absolutely more complicated and intricate to understand and get right.

The information people have been so kind as to provide here definitely helps!

It's obvious to me now that there's no one 'perfect' build to be had no matter what style you play and the meta is constantly shifting anyway from patch to patch, so it's not like I can be delivered the ultimate build and that's all I need.

I need to LEARN WHY these builds matter, how they work, why the choices are important and how they impact play.

That's what I'm doing here now, which is why I'm really thankful to the ESO community for their eagerness to share their knowledge and educate numptys like me on where I've been going wrong and how to get on the right path to improve.

I'll get there!

SkaraMinoc

Austacker wrote: »

But looking at the success found by others, I KNOW that a Magplar heals can be S tier in the right hands for sure

I'd rank PvP healers as follows.

S-Tier: Warden, Necro, Templar
A-Tier: Nightblade
B-Tier: Sorcerer
C-Tier: Dragonknight

fred4

The main differences in building for PvP, as I see them:

• You probably want 30K health. You may also want 25K to 30K resistances.
• Your off stat matters. You want at least 15K stamina. This can mean food like Sugar Skulls or it can mean Hakeijo enchants.
• Your stamina sustain matters. A lot. Racial passives can help, for example Altmer. Heavy armor can help, because you passively restore small amounts of stamina. For me personally, because I am more prone to dodge rolling than blocking, I am not happy unless I have 1.2K stamina sustain from Wretched Vitality (otherwise unbuffed) plus Restoring Focus. E.g. with potion and Restoring Focus I would probably have over 2K on my magplar, although I do tend to use Sorcery + Detection potions, which do not include health or stamina. Among all defensive measures I have ever taken, stamina sustain - dodge rolls - remain the most effective and most universally useful. Everything else has counters. The only common counters to a dodge roll are Whirling Blades, Soul Tether, Dawnbreaker and maybe DK Leap. Notice a lot of ultimates there, but not much else. Even Templar Jabs / Sweeps, Shalks and DK Breath you can get away from with speed and dodge rolls. They don't kill you instantly. Whirling Blades is death, because of when it gets used, e.g. when you're hanging on for dear life and you think a dodge roll will save you.
  
  I trade high armor for stamina sustain. This drastically cuts the armor sets I will consider wearing personally. For example: Buffer of the Swift (10% damage reduction)? Good grief, no! Wretched Vitality: Yes (back barrable). Amber Plasm in Ravenwatch? Yes, please. The only way I'd build differently is by using Bear Haunch as a food, e.g. by getting stam sustain from dual-regen food. I find it hard to argue with Wretched Vitality, though, because it's back barrable and because of the amount of sustain it gives. The reason Markyn and Magma are in the running is that they are a relatively small investment in terms of armor slots and none of the monster / mythic alternatives are outright better. Equally as good, yes, but not outright better. This seems to be the same for everyone.
• The Impenetrable trait has been nerfed to bits. It's still useful, but I tend to go all Well-Fitted these days. This is also why I prefer Light / Medium over Heavy. See above.
• Do not underestimate speed. Celerity CP are a no brainer for me along with Slippery - the latter especially if you have issues breaking free. Should you ever go (back) to being an attacking templar you may note that you can't keep players that are faster than you in your Sweeps. That's where speed helps or you need to bait people into indoor situations where they can't easily escape. Ever notice how experienced players flee into resource towers? This is one of the reasons why. It's only the sorcs and, funnily enough, the nightblades that like to fight out in the open. While Shadow Image works great in buildings, as a cloaking but non Shadow Image nightblade I have to be weary of the space constraints when I go into a tower. It's all too easy to get caught in some ultimate / AOE burst.
• Your magicka sustain also matters more than in PvE. Do not expect to rely on synergies. Heavy attacks and meditation can be viable. The former probably more so in heavy armor. Personally I'm only happy with 2K+ unbuffed mag sustain, probably slightly more, but this is arguably one of my vices. I tend to compromise my damage stats too much. What I gain is the ability to keep brawling at all times. Ultimately this leads to me being uncompetitive, e.g. weak in duels and in the ability to quickly burst someone down in a 1vX, but it plays nicely in AvA. This also plays into your healing. You were wondering how the best players 1vX. Well, a friend of mine, who is very good, told me his about-to-be-nerfed Living Dark bubble has a tooltip of 5K. I can't get close to that. Mine ranges from 2.5K to 4K fully buffed.

This is one way people traditionally 1vX. They push their stats so both their damage and their healing is extremely high. You have to pay careful attention to how you build for that. For example, Deadly Strike is a strong templar set. In so far as you heal from Puncturing Sweeps, that set also buffs your healing. However Sweeps is only a small part of your healing in PvP (unlike in PvE). If templar was my main, I'd have to investigate whether Deadly is really the way to go, since it basically only buffs my damage, not my healing. Clever Alchemist is extremely popular, because it pushes your weapon damage more than anything else and it contributes to your 30K health target. Mechanical Acuity, although changed / nerfed, is still a set that facilitates 1vX. Both are sets that temporarily boost your damage as well as your healing through the roof.

The flip side is, when you see a 1vXer line-of-sighting, they're probably low on resources, their Clever Alchemist is down, and/or they're trying to build ultimate. They're looking for that 2 second window where they can suddenly burst someone with full ultimate, a Clever Alchemist proc, possibly full Balorgh and so on. In the meantime those boxes inside a keep along the outer keep wall are extremely effective for line-of-sighting. It is very hard to hit anyone who is weaving in and out between those. There are similar places in IC, however even just running back and forth around the corner of a building or a rock or a tree is effective. I suppose this is where lag comes into play. You need to be a hare. You need to make unpredictable direction changes all the time. Sometimes that just means running back and forth. There is always some lag, even when the game feels lag free. Others do not see exactly where you are. There is going to be a 200ms delay between your ping and their ping at the best of times. The best players instinctively move in such a way they are hard to hit. Some have this down in open field. Those are quite few in my experience, but my friend, MrTyrant, does it. I believe it comes from years of duelling practice. Well, he's playing for two years now, but he learnt quickly. He surpassed me after a year.

If you want to be killed, be predictable. Run away from your opponent in a straight line. They even get a damage bonus for shooting you in the back, for example if they have Camouflaged Hunter slotted. Running away in a straight line in open field is one of the worst things you can do, but it is something you instinctively will do at first. You need to create angles or you may turn around 180 degrees and run into the opposition, if it's not a whole zerg. Players are not solid. You can run or dodge roll through them.

fred4

Sorry about the choppiness of the following footage, however this illustrates a lot of what I've been talking about. I'm playing the build I listed, with only minor changes.

https://youtu.be/gwWzF5RgAt0

Even though I died, I consider this a success. I was kind of on auto pilot and got caught on my front bar when the two blues bursted me. Looking back over the video, my rotation was pretty crap. I let the rune drop early in the fight, for one thing. I tend to watch my debuffs more than anything, the list of icons above the resource bars. I have those configured to show self-debuffs only. When there are a lot of them, I know it's time to go into pure defense, block and cleanse mode. This did not happen when I died. I should have paid closer attention to the fight.

I consider it a success, because I was able to hold out against the two aggressive blue players while basically staying out in the open. If you watch the red support I had, it was mostly a nightblade, who appeared to drop in and out of the fight (wisely) via Shadow Image. Nightblades are typically not much help for your survival.

Let's have a look at that yellow necro who turned up after my death. He killed one blue and almost killed both, while taking no damage. Looking closely, what's going on is very interesting though. No question he is an impressive player. As he approaches and the blues are coming up the ramp, he drops down the ramp, behind them. He then runs through them and, having run past the pillar, he appears to momentarily face the blues, backtracking slightly. The blues overshoot and run through him. He then dodge rolls through the blues again, turns 180 while doing so, and goes into a Dawnbreaker / Graveyard (self-synergy) / Whirlwind execute combo. Somehow he manages to hit both blues. The latter just shows how what was on my screen, on their screens, and the server was probably not exactly the same thing. Just how he managed to catch both blues with Dawnbreaker, I don't know. What's more interesting, however, is that at this point one of the blues is standing on the flag, with the resto staff on the ground, doing nothing. Had I cut the video short at that point, you might not have noticed and been none the wiser. That necro just almost killed both blues. In reality he was only fighting one of them, the one who died! The other one knew him. Perhaps they both did. You can see afterwards that they are not fighting and this only happened in the heat of the moment. You don't always have time to look at people's nameplates.

Observe what powerful inhibition knowing or respecting other players is. If you regularly duel in Bergama (Alik'r) or in open world, you become part of that scene. I generally do not rise to that level. I've been occasionally in the postion where I duelled people to a standstill in IC and they subsequently gave me respect. You don't get zerged by good players who respect you. They give you the honor of duels. Those two blues did not. Of course the situation was also unclear. There was at least one other red around.

I'm actually fascinated by the social dynamics of PvP. They seem to be the dynamics of bullying and war. You hear war stories, such as the one about an Allied WW2 aviator helping their German opponent get their stricken plane safely to the ground, out of respect for their fighting skills. Or was it the other way around? This is, IMO, the same dynamic that contributes to 1vX happening. The respected 1vXer gets a free pass to only fight noobs, because the experienced opponent that could bring them down actively refuses to get involved. Not always, but it is a factor. The flipside of this is bullying. You get respect for being strong. There is something primal about that. It's also very expedient. Don't attack the strong, cause the weak are easier to pick on. You don't usually garner mercy for being weak, unless you're obviously a fisherman or PvEer in IC. If you are a fighter and you're not good, you're cannon fodder. You'll be zerged by accomplished players and other noobs alike. Of course, if you are a healer, there is a very real incentive to target you first, because it's literally impossible to kill groups that have alive and well healers.

geonsocal

great stuff @fred4 , really enjoyed the vid and your write up - thanks

The respected 1vXer gets a free pass to only fight noobs, because the experienced opponent that could bring them down actively refuses to get involved.

ha, i generally stay out of them because:
a). they can last forever
b). the 1 in the equation often is running around at full speed, and i get tired/bored chasing people
c). i ain't trying to get in on some 1 v X'rs vid

if i do get involved it's usually from distance, often just to charge up my ultimates...

Among all defensive measures I have ever taken, stamina sustain - dodge rolls - remain the most effective and most universally useful.

doesn't matter what build i'm on, even when i have a shield and a bunch of stamina, my reflex is to always try to roll-dodge out of a bad situation, it's a really hard habit to break...