Inner Light Vs Camouflaged Hunter

Rianov

im making a mag Sorcerer dps build but i cant decide on these two skills on one hand the increased magicka sounds good but on the other i can get minor berserk which is better and is there a pro/con for using one over the other?

Necrotech_Master

i think most people use magelight (or morphs) mainly if your running bahsei as an easy and quick mag dump

if your not running bahsei then its kind of up to you

max mag still buffs sorc shields, but to your point its an easy source of minor berserk, so i could see either working out

AcadianPaladin

Inner Light is good. You get +5% mag and major savagery from it, as well as +2% mag and mag regen from the Mages Guild passive.

I get minor berserk from Slimecraw. That said, many consider Slimecraw to be not an optimal monster set - but I'm happy with it. 5 seconds of minor berserk after hit an enemy from the flank (Camo hunter) seems quite inferior to the 100% full time passive minor berserk of Slimecraw.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

The answer of course is, it depends:

Are you in a good group/raid with someone keeping up combat prayer (minor Berserk) and you are also running spell pots (major Prophecy)? Best passive slottable on a sorc is actually Bound Aegis as it gives the most max magic.

If running Spell Pots, and you can flank, but there is no combat Prayer, run Camo Hunter.

If you arent running Spell Pots, I would pretty much always run Inner light regardless of minor Berserk. I think this is also probably best if you are looking for a "set it and forget it" skill.

Ultimately it comes down to what is available to you. I would probably prioritize Minor Prophecy (pots or inner light), Minor Berserk (camo+Flank or Combat Prayer), Total Magic, in that order.

Kahnak

Rianov wrote: »

im making a mag Sorcerer dps build but i cant decide on these two skills on one hand the increased magicka sounds good but on the other i can get minor berserk which is better and is there a pro/con for using one over the other?

These days, I think Camo Hunter is hands down better from a damage standpoint. It's not just the Minor Berserk, but you also get 3% additional spell & weapon damage from the Fighter's Guild passive just for having it on your bar. The passives from the Mages' Guild skill line only give Max Magicka and Magicka Regen. Magelight still has it's place, if damage isn't your main focus and regen is more valuable - on a healer for instance. Especially if you don't want to waste your good potions on healing but still want Major Prophecy.

PrinceShroob

Use Camouflaged Hunter if you need Minor Berserk or there are lots of adds to kill to gain ultimate. Otherwise, the magicka increase from Inner Light provides more damage than Camouflaged Hunter’s increase to spell damage.

Kahnak

PrinceShroob wrote: »

Use Camouflaged Hunter if you need Minor Berserk or there are lots of adds to kill to gain ultimate. Otherwise, the magicka increase from Inner Light provides more damage than Camouflaged Hunter’s increase to spell damage.

No, it definitely doesn't.

3% spell damage contributes far more to DPS than max resources. In general, every 1 point of Spell Damage is worth 10.5 points of Magicka when determining damage increases.

PrinceShroob

Kahnak wrote: »

PrinceShroob wrote: »

Use Camouflaged Hunter if you need Minor Berserk or there are lots of adds to kill to gain ultimate. Otherwise, the magicka increase from Inner Light provides more damage than Camouflaged Hunter’s increase to spell damage.

No, it definitely doesn't.

3% spell damage contributes far more to DPS than max resources. In general, every 1 point of Spell Damage is worth 10.5 points of Magicka when determining damage increases.

You forget that Inner Light provides approximately 2k additional magicka with Magicka Controller.

Per statistics from 101k Target Iron Atronach, Trial parse referenced from a Discord screenshot:

Effective spell damage in Perfected Bahsei’s Mania/Kinras/Slimecraw/Harpooner’s Wading Kilt on Dunmer Sorcerer: 6498

6498 x 1.03 (3% Spell Damage from slotting Camoufalged Hunter) = 6692.94
Difference: 194.94 Spell Damage

Effective magicka in same gear with Ghastly Eye Bowl: 34353

34353 x 1.07 (5% maximum magicka from slotting Inner Light plus 2% additional maximum magicka from Magicka Controller passive) = 36757.71
Difference: 2404.71/10.5 = 229.02 Spell Damage

the1andonlyskwex

Kahnak wrote: »

PrinceShroob wrote: »

Use Camouflaged Hunter if you need Minor Berserk or there are lots of adds to kill to gain ultimate. Otherwise, the magicka increase from Inner Light provides more damage than Camouflaged Hunter’s increase to spell damage.

No, it definitely doesn't.

3% spell damage contributes far more to DPS than max resources. In general, every 1 point of Spell Damage is worth 10.5 points of Magicka when determining damage increases.

Which is better depends a lot on your actual stats. If we ignore Minor Berserk, Inner Light gives 7% max magicka and Camo Hunter gives 3% weapon and spell damage. Assuming your max magicka is already higher than your max stamina, that means your max magicka only needs to be 10.5*3/7=4.5 times higher than (the greater of) your weapon and spell damage.

Practically speaking, the math favors Camo Hunter for all stamina builds (because max magicka only increases damage if your max magicka is higher than your max stamina), and Inner Light for most magicka builds. That said, for very high-end, fully buffed, magicka builds with a lot of weapon and spell damage, Camo Hunter probably comes out on top. Camo Hunter generally also comes out on top for anyone who doesn't have an alternate source of Minor Berserk.

Kahnak

PrinceShroob wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

PrinceShroob wrote: »

Use Camouflaged Hunter if you need Minor Berserk or there are lots of adds to kill to gain ultimate. Otherwise, the magicka increase from Inner Light provides more damage than Camouflaged Hunter’s increase to spell damage.

No, it definitely doesn't.

3% spell damage contributes far more to DPS than max resources. In general, every 1 point of Spell Damage is worth 10.5 points of Magicka when determining damage increases.

You forget that Inner Light provides approximately 2k additional magicka with Magicka Controller.

Per statistics from 101k Target Iron Atronach, Trial parse referenced from a Discord screenshot:

Effective spell damage in Perfected Bahsei’s Mania/Kinras/Slimecraw/Harpooner’s Wading Kilt on Dunmer Sorcerer: 6498

6498 x 1.03 (3% Spell Damage from slotting Camoufalged Hunter) = 6692.94
Difference: 194.94 Spell Damage

Effective magicka in same gear with Ghastly Eye Bowl: 34353

34353 x 1.07 (5% maximum magicka from slotting Inner Light plus 2% additional maximum magicka from Magicka Controller passive) = 36757.71
Difference: 2404.71/10.5 = 229.02 Spell Damage

I'm not forgetting anything. There are far more group buffs in PVE that provide increases to spell damage/weapon damage than there are buffs to Max Magicka. Just the addition of Minor Courage to your data, which the Iron Atro does not provide, puts Camo Hunter on top. That also compounds with any ability that provides additional spell damage, like Flawless Dawnbreaker, class abilities like DK's Molten Whip, or the passives from Dual Wield. Just the addition of a second Fighter's Guild ability like Barbed Trap or Flawless Dawnbreaker on the front bar, which many Magicka builds use, will put it ahead. So no, it definitely doesn't. Plus, Bound Aegis on Sorcerer give 8% Max Magicka, with the addition of 2% Spell Damage from Expert Mage, so why you would use the literal worst option on a Sorc to parse seems a little silly.

AcadianPaladin

Though it does not address Inner Light vs Camo Hunter directly, I did some testing on my Magsorc.

Constants: Julianosx5, Mother's Sorrowx5, Slimecrawx2. Inner Light double barred.

Variable: Mages Guild ultimate on both bars vs Fighters Guild ultimate on both bars (all passives for both guilds maxed). I normally run the MG ult on both bars for the passives, but after reading this thread wanted to try double slotting the FG ult instead to compare passives.

Results: Did three dps checks with the MG ult slotted and three with the FG slotted. Did not use either ultimate at all to take that out of the equation. So the only difference was the MG passives vs the FG passives. Having the MG ult slotted resulted reliably in about 5% higher dps than having the FG ult slotted.

WrathOfInnos

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Though it does not address Inner Light vs Camo Hunter directly, I did some testing on my Magsorc.

Constants: Julianosx5, Mother's Sorrowx5, Slimecrawx2. Inner Light double barred.

Variable: Mages Guild ultimate on both bars vs Fighters Guild ultimate on both bars (all passives for both guilds maxed). I normally run the MG ult on both bars for the passives, but after reading this thread wanted to try double slotting the FG ult instead to compare passives.

Results: Did three dps checks with the MG ult slotted and three with the FG slotted. Did not use either ultimate at all to take that out of the equation. So the only difference was the MG passives vs the FG passives. Having the MG ult slotted resulted reliably in about 5% higher dps than having the FG ult slotted.

Hmm, that must just be some variations in timing or crit luck. Assuming you already have Minor Berserk (applied by raid dummy) and major prophecy/savagery, the 3% weapon/spell damage from the FG passive should give a little over 1% DPS (maybe 1.3% for a typical DPS). Slotting meteor is just 2% max magicka for about 0.4% DPS plus a tiny amount of sustain. The difference between these two options is a fraction of a percent.

Similar story for camo hunter vs inner light. They are typically within 1% of each other. Inner Light pulls ahead with good Combat Prayer uptimes and helps slightly with sustain, while Camo Hunter can be better if Minor Berserk is low and you are flanking, while also giving a little ultimate from kills.