Plot Hole in High Isle Prologue Quest

ArchMikem

I'm a stickler for immersion and realistic writing/detailing, but given this game is a High Fantasy MMORPG, sure there's expected leeway. Even still some things are just too conflicting to just gloss over, and I've even seen others here mention this too so yay, it's not just me.

The final objective in the Questline where you're told to race off to an island to make sure High King Emeric is safe from the Ascendant Order, the expectations given to you on how to get there aren't very, practical.



You're on Auridon, one of the Summerset Isles. The situation seems dire and you're told to race off to an Island just off Glenumbra to safeguard Emeric. The enemy is ahead of you and you're told to hurry. Again, this is Auridon to Glenumbra, with a massive Sea between the two. With Tamriel still using Sails, that journey should take at least a couple weeks? Then to cherry top it the transit marker to get there is placed on a small Fishing Row Boat. So, better just bump that travel time up to a month?

Potential solutions, place the transit marker on an actual Sailing Ship at the docks, or just write the Quest so we travel by Portal.

whitecrow

Ships in Tamriel can instantly travel anywhere, even inland.

Syldras

whitecrow wrote: »

Ships in Tamriel can instantly travel anywhere, even inland.

Teleportation magic. People are just placed in a vessel so they won't get lost during the process (a very unfortunate but not uncommon problem, believe me).

BloodyStigmata

You know how it goes in videogames. The bad guys have to conveniently sit around and wait however long it takes for you to just barely arrive in time and save the day.

Just once, I'd like an NPC to be like, "Yeah, so and so died like four weeks ago. The bad guys were way ahead of you. What do you mean you chased them by boat? WTF were you doing?"

Iselin

I posted the same concern too just after doing the prologue quest.

There is also and even longer journey by rowboat from the Isle to Vvanderfell at the end.

Gundug

If the concern is just based on the rowboat, which could never survive a long coastal trip in reality, you could assume you are simply rowing to a ship further offshore.

Kahnak

Considering all of the unrealistic or impractical aspects to this game, this comes off as such a nitpick. Certainly not a 'MAJOR PLOT HOLE'.

Here's how to fix it: The ship travelled through a 'who gives a crap' portal, and you arrived just in time to save King Emeric.

I think the quests in this game are written relatively well, but 'realistic' or 'practical' would not be words I would use to describe them. The quests can still be immersive despite that. It's a little thing we call 'the suspension of disbelief'.

Lailaamell

And we speak of a game universe where mages can open portals to any location

Alinhbo_Tyaka

I seem to recall that there is another MMO that uses ships for transport where you see yourself leaving a port and the next thing you see a few moments later is you arriving at your destination. It seems to be a pretty standard plot device. If this upsets the OP so much then Peri the horse or the cart to Craglorn must drive them crazy.

DMuehlhausen

Jakarn says he's a good rower. Maybe he can cover that ground in minutes...

DMuehlhausen

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

I seem to recall that there is another MMO that uses ships for transport where you see yourself leaving a port and the next thing you see a few moments later is you arriving at your destination. It seems to be a pretty standard plot device. If this upsets the OP so much then Peri the horse or the cart to Craglorn must drive them crazy.

The problem is you leave the island in a row boat. Jakarn makes a comment about being a good rower, but this would be one of those trips that would take "days" at sea in a normal boat in a story.

ArchMikem

Kahnak wrote: »

Considering all of the unrealistic or impractical aspects to this game, this comes off as such a nitpick. Certainly not a 'MAJOR PLOT HOLE'. Here's how to fix it: The ship travelled through a 'who gives a crap' portal, and you arrived just in time to save King Emeric.

That's not a good attitude to have about Storytelling, especially when that's the backbone of this entire game.

Lailaamell wrote: »

And we speak of a game universe where mages can open portals to any location

Then why not just have the player travel by Portal.

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

I seem to recall that there is another MMO that uses ships for transport where you see yourself leaving a port and the next thing you see a few moments later is you arriving at your destination. It seems to be a pretty standard plot device. If this upsets the OP so much then Peri the horse or the cart to Craglorn must drive them crazy.

What upsets me is the writing of the scenario falling short. The distance needing to be traveled is substantial. If the situation is urgent, then have the player travel by Portal. If it's not urgent enough that travel by Sea is acceptable, then have Jakarn mention "Grab this Dingy, I know a Ship Captain just off shore that can help get us there."

Alinhbo_Tyaka

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

I seem to recall that there is another MMO that uses ships for transport where you see yourself leaving a port and the next thing you see a few moments later is you arriving at your destination. It seems to be a pretty standard plot device. If this upsets the OP so much then Peri the horse or the cart to Craglorn must drive them crazy.

The problem is you leave the island in a row boat. Jakarn makes a comment about being a good rower, but this would be one of those trips that would take "days" at sea in a normal boat in a story.

A joke about the plot device where a journey is started and moments later you are at the destination. No different than the cart or Peri. How do we know what other forms of transportation were used during the load screen? And maybe they did go by rowboat but ZOS neglected inform us Jakarn is the sculling champion of Tamriel with the ability to row at super human speeds.

Edit: I just finished the quest and the rowboat joke was even in some of the remarks from Jakar when he thanks us about helping, to paraphrase, in little boats.

VaranisArano

There's two sides to it.

Gameplay: Players need to be able to talk breaks from the quest and come back to it. Sending you to a ship to progress the quest gives the player agency as to what the want to do next. The ship is also more accessible to players who leave and do something else than a portal that stays at the quest location.

Story-telling: Good story-telling relies on establishing the stakes of the situation. When the stakes are high and time is short, we should feel a sense of urgency. It's important that we move quickly. At moments like that, we don't want to stop and take a long trip to get to the next location. "Hurry to foil an assassination" does not work well with "Take a boat." It just kills suspension of disbelief.

ZOS generally chooses gameplay over story-telling, in large part because they have to respect the gamer behind the character.

Questgiver: "Hurry! King Emeric might die!"
Me: Yeah, but I gotta get up early tomorrow, and besides, there's an Event on.

SammyKhajit

Another plot hole is why didn’t the Ascendant Order put a spell on the medallions so that the representatives for the peace talks are ported to the place where the cult Order wants them to be, imprison them etc and try to extort political gains by holding them hostage?

That’s a better plan than put a death spell on the medallions, since the plot would be immediately spotted (as seen in that poor Mages Guild person got instantly murdered).

SantieClaws

The big plot hole for this one is why was she running around chasing these medallions when Lady Spectacles sent her one in the post!

Right here on the desk of this one with a letter.

Khajiit could have used that to save King Beardy no?

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Elvenheart

I personally agree that due to the urgency a more practical way such as a portal should have been used, but to be honest, my char enjoyed all the extra time he got to spend with Jakarn in the rowboat. Jarkarn even said something like “You’re someone I don’t mind being in close quarters with” along the way…! 🚣‍♀️

Kahnak

ArchMikem wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

Considering all of the unrealistic or impractical aspects to this game, this comes off as such a nitpick. Certainly not a 'MAJOR PLOT HOLE'. Here's how to fix it: The ship travelled through a 'who gives a crap' portal, and you arrived just in time to save King Emeric.

That's not a good attitude to have about Storytelling, especially when that's the backbone of this entire game.

Lailaamell wrote: »

And we speak of a game universe where mages can open portals to any location

Then why not just have the player travel by Portal.

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

I seem to recall that there is another MMO that uses ships for transport where you see yourself leaving a port and the next thing you see a few moments later is you arriving at your destination. It seems to be a pretty standard plot device. If this upsets the OP so much then Peri the horse or the cart to Craglorn must drive them crazy.

What upsets me is the writing of the scenario falling short. The distance needing to be traveled is substantial. If the situation is urgent, then have the player travel by Portal. If it's not urgent enough that travel by Sea is acceptable, then have Jakarn mention "Grab this Dingy, I know a Ship Captain just off shore that can help get us there."

Uh, PVP is the backbone of this entire game.

If it's a nitpick, like I alleged, it doesn't really have an impact on the storytelling one way or the other, does it? Is it not a worse attitude to be critical of the realism and practicality of a fantasy story, where realism and practicality are virtually non-existent? As I said, a nitpick for someone who has a hard time using their imagination. Certainly not a MAJOR PLOT HOLE.

SantieClaws

Elvenheart wrote: »

I personally agree that due to the urgency a more practical way such as a portal should have been used, but to be honest, my char enjoyed all the extra time he got to spend with Jakarn in the rowboat. Jarkarn even said something like “You’re someone I don’t mind being in close quarters with” along the way…! 🚣‍♀️

Oh you can keep him. Please do!

He makes it very hard for this one to keep her claws retracted ...

Now Bumnog. There is a gentleman!

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Tryxus

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Jakarn says he's a good rower. Maybe he can cover that ground in minutes...

Especially when he eats his spinach



Besides, in a world like Nirn there's plenty of ways to make a boat go really fast. You could hook it up to a dragon...



Or even make it fly



Boat travel doesn't have to be slow and mundane

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Tryxus wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Jakarn says he's a good rower. Maybe he can cover that ground in minutes...

Especially when he eats his spinach



Besides, in a world like Nirn there's plenty of ways to make a boat go really fast. You could hook it up to a dragon...

Or even make it fly

Boat travel doesn't have to be slow and mundane

Except for the fact that we know that it is very mundane. This has been clear in Elder Scrolls for a very long time. Like the only ones that are not normal sailing as usual ships are maormer's and some bosmer ones mentioned in books only.

bmnoble

So nobody finds any issue with the random cart that takes us across the ocean to Vvardenfell?

Clearly they traveled by map.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIQKVITyaMI

Syldras

Elvenheart wrote: »

I personally agree that due to the urgency a more practical way such as a portal should have been used, but to be honest, my char enjoyed all the extra time he got to spend with Jakarn in the rowboat. Jarkarn even said something like “You’re someone I don’t mind being in close quarters with” along the way…! 🚣‍♀️

If I have to choose between using a portal or having a smug Breton sitting on my lap on a ridiculously tiny boat for what time - days? weeks? - I prefer using the portal, thank you.

Xinihp

Hey, in World of Warcraft Jaina can fly around in a ghost ship launching massive ghost missiles fueled only by magic and girl power. Be glad distance traveled is the biggest faux pas here.

SammyKhajit

Syldras wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

I personally agree that due to the urgency a more practical way such as a portal should have been used, but to be honest, my char enjoyed all the extra time he got to spend with Jakarn in the rowboat. Jarkarn even said something like “You’re someone I don’t mind being in close quarters with” along the way…! 🚣‍♀️

If I have to choose between using a portal or having a smug Breton sitting on my lap on a ridiculously tiny boat for what time - days? weeks? - I prefer using the portal, thank you.

This one made Bastian ate a large bowl of blue cheese broccoli soup, accompanied by a cheese soufflé, before ordering him to sit on Jakarn’s lap on the row boat.

ArchMikem

Kahnak wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

Considering all of the unrealistic or impractical aspects to this game, this comes off as such a nitpick. Certainly not a 'MAJOR PLOT HOLE'. Here's how to fix it: The ship travelled through a 'who gives a crap' portal, and you arrived just in time to save King Emeric.

That's not a good attitude to have about Storytelling, especially when that's the backbone of this entire game.

Lailaamell wrote: »

And we speak of a game universe where mages can open portals to any location

Then why not just have the player travel by Portal.

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

I seem to recall that there is another MMO that uses ships for transport where you see yourself leaving a port and the next thing you see a few moments later is you arriving at your destination. It seems to be a pretty standard plot device. If this upsets the OP so much then Peri the horse or the cart to Craglorn must drive them crazy.

What upsets me is the writing of the scenario falling short. The distance needing to be traveled is substantial. If the situation is urgent, then have the player travel by Portal. If it's not urgent enough that travel by Sea is acceptable, then have Jakarn mention "Grab this Dingy, I know a Ship Captain just off shore that can help get us there."

Uh, PVP is the backbone of this entire game.

RPG first and foremost, MMO second, as claimed by the Devs before. Role Playing Games are entirely centered around story telling.

SilverBride

I did this prologue on 4 different characters and it never once struck me as odd. Boats and carts etc. always just fade out then you are at your destination. I didn't expect this to be any different.

McMasterx

The player is very clearly a Walking Dragonbreak, every day we wake up all events concurrently happen, and just compound against our mind. A simple rowboat journey across hostile WAR FILLED OCEAN, spending several weeks, if not months at sea is meaningless. As all days just become One in our Eyes.

VaranisArano

SammyKhajit wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

I personally agree that due to the urgency a more practical way such as a portal should have been used, but to be honest, my char enjoyed all the extra time he got to spend with Jakarn in the rowboat. Jarkarn even said something like “You’re someone I don’t mind being in close quarters with” along the way…! 🚣‍♀️

If I have to choose between using a portal or having a smug Breton sitting on my lap on a ridiculously tiny boat for what time - days? weeks? - I prefer using the portal, thank you.

This one made Bastian ate a large bowl of blue cheese broccoli soup, accompanied by a cheese soufflé, before ordering him to sit on Jakarn’s lap on the row boat.

Syldras

SammyKhajit wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

I personally agree that due to the urgency a more practical way such as a portal should have been used, but to be honest, my char enjoyed all the extra time he got to spend with Jakarn in the rowboat. Jarkarn even said something like “You’re someone I don’t mind being in close quarters with” along the way…! 🚣‍♀️

If I have to choose between using a portal or having a smug Breton sitting on my lap on a ridiculously tiny boat for what time - days? weeks? - I prefer using the portal, thank you.

This one made Bastian ate a large bowl of blue cheese broccoli soup, accompanied by a cheese soufflé, before ordering him to sit on Jakarn’s lap on the row boat.

You hate both of them, do you?

SammyKhajit

Syldras wrote: »

SammyKhajit wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

I personally agree that due to the urgency a more practical way such as a portal should have been used, but to be honest, my char enjoyed all the extra time he got to spend with Jakarn in the rowboat. Jarkarn even said something like “You’re someone I don’t mind being in close quarters with” along the way…! 🚣‍♀️

If I have to choose between using a portal or having a smug Breton sitting on my lap on a ridiculously tiny boat for what time - days? weeks? - I prefer using the portal, thank you.

This one made Bastian ate a large bowl of blue cheese broccoli soup, accompanied by a cheese soufflé, before ordering him to sit on Jakarn’s lap on the row boat.

You hate both of them, do you?

Nah. This one just likes to be entertained whilst boating