If you like running around rocks or towers for hours on end in Cyrodiil.....

OBJnoob

A zerg -v- some guy that wants to try and x is unfair, numerically, but probably what both parties want. And the xer complains (only if they lose,) and the zerg complains (if the xer doesn't die.)

The Xers complaint is more, uh, literally and technically valid, but there are several intangibles that build up to another valid viewpoint. Long stretches of cc immunity, super speed, LOS, and lag are on the Xers side and feel pretty unfair to the others involved.

Ultimately though we're all right... And we're all wrong... And we just want what we want. I don't think anything actually should be changed about it-- people just want to complain.

I will say its patently wrong to call every group of 6+ a zerg though, or assume their reason for playing in a group is that they need training wheels.

_adhyffbjjjf12

StaticWave wrote: »

The reality is most players who complain about tower humping or running around trees are usually found in a large zerg. This makes their complaint very ironic as they are basically doing the same thing by humping or running around their zerg. Biggest difference though is the tower/tree don’t fight back, whereas a zerg does 😄

The reality is some people would rather blame the player rather than pushing back against development team that has created this mess.

CaperGuy

Tower kiting does require skill to pull off properly, sure. It is also (to me) also the most aggravatingly boring, tedious playstyle and waste of time ever. I just get scooby doo music playing over and over in my head when people try and start that garbage. To each their own I guess, but I typically just leave and let them to go play with themselves.

biminirwb17_ESO

4 players at a resource killing 1 person who tries to flip it, then they get killed by 16 people and complain. They don't seem to understand the odds were the same.

geonsocal

CaperGuy wrote: »

Tower kiting does require skill to pull off properly, sure.

i end up missing that second floor all the time when i'm hopping down from the top floor...hit the ground near death...or, drop down in to trouble slipping off the stairs...

Rhaegar75

some PvP specs are soooooooo boring and sadly PvP in general is getting rather dull!!

Iriidius

Often the 4 player smallscale will attack a 16 man zerg and still complain they got zerged if they loose or even if they win althought they choosed to fight the group and the group only defended. What else should the 16 man group do if they get attacked by a group of 4 stronger players than zerg them down? Chose 4 players for a 4v4 you will loose? Let the enemy smallscale choose the 4 worst players in the group? A Team of 4 pro players with group buff sets, heal stacking and voicechat vs 4 randoms seems like a much fairer fight, doesnt it.
On the other side the 4 man scale group will attack solo players on sight and dismount them if they are just walking/riding by, set traps, pretend beeing solo and wanting to duell and calling their friends if you accept duell usw to force them into outnumbered fights. Then they claim it is only revenge for zerging them.

If a zerg attacks a solo player that obviously doesnt want to fight and trys to avoid the fight thinking he is easy riskless pray because they outnumber him and the solo player runs into a tower and kills the zerglings or at least survives against them and wastes their time they deserved it.
But often towerrunners will also attack groups and do everything to provocate them. They attack the groups, set everyone in combat so they cant mount before they kill him then run into tower and LoS until they can burst someone down and when the Group leaves the tower he will follow them out and make sure they keep combat status. Many Zerglings dont even follow you into the tower if you
dont provocate them enaugh even if they would attack you immediately on open field.
Smallscale that outnumber their opponents most of the time will also run in towers if they get outnumbered themselves.

Starshadw

CaperGuy wrote: »

Tower kiting does require skill to pull off properly, sure. It is also (to me) also the most aggravatingly boring, tedious playstyle and waste of time ever. I just get scooby doo music playing over and over in my head when people try and start that garbage. To each their own I guess, but I typically just leave and let them to go play with themselves.

Heh - more like Yackety Sax

StaticWave

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

The reality is most players who complain about tower humping or running around trees are usually found in a large zerg. This makes their complaint very ironic as they are basically doing the same thing by humping or running around their zerg. Biggest difference though is the tower/tree don’t fight back, whereas a zerg does 😄

The reality is some people would rather blame the player rather than pushing back against development team that has created this mess.

This happens on both ends. I’ve seen 1vXers/smallscalers complain about cross healing because they can’t kill a larger group. I’ve also seen people in zergs complain about being unable to kill 1vXers/smallscalers for using terrain and/or just having better knowledge of game mechanics.

It doesn’t make sense to me either way. If you try to take on a much bigger group, don’t expect to easily kill them unless you use specific group-busting sets. Likewise if you try to zerg down a lone player or a smaller group of players, don’t expect them to just stand still and take hits. More often than not, the same people who sit in a zerg and complain about people running around trees would easily die in a 1v1. I’ve experienced that first hand when I catch some of the people who sent me whispers after zerging me down in a 1v1.

OBJnoob

StaticWave wrote: »

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

The reality is most players who complain about tower humping or running around trees are usually found in a large zerg. This makes their complaint very ironic as they are basically doing the same thing by humping or running around their zerg. Biggest difference though is the tower/tree don’t fight back, whereas a zerg does 😄

The reality is some people would rather blame the player rather than pushing back against development team that has created this mess.

This happens on both ends. I’ve seen 1vXers/smallscalers complain about cross healing because they can’t kill a larger group. I’ve also seen people in zergs complain about being unable to kill 1vXers/smallscalers for using terrain and/or just having better knowledge of game mechanics.

It doesn’t make sense to me either way. If you try to take on a much bigger group, don’t expect to easily kill them unless you use specific group-busting sets. Likewise if you try to zerg down a lone player or a smaller group of players, don’t expect them to just stand still and take hits. More often than not, the same people who sit in a zerg and complain about people running around trees would easily die in a 1v1. I’ve experienced that first hand when I catch some of the people who sent me whispers after zerging me down in a 1v1.

I'm not sure that's a fair statement. You say "more often than not," like you don't realize most players can't X. A person that can routinely X will beat anybody... More often than not. It only means they are an above average player. That's pretty much the end of the significance of that statement.

But there are a lot of skill levels between trash and Xer. And again I want to say not all people who play in groups do it because they need training wheels.

Case in point... I'm not an Xer. Have had some Xes, sure, and won many smallscale v X fights. But to go out there every night solo trying to take on groups? Frankly I'm just not good enough. Not good enough to make that play style fun for myself anyway. BUT. I have watched Xers kite and kill a few members of groups I'm in without dying. And I have even been the one chasing and was also unable to kill them. Will freely admit I could not do what they just did. Challenge them to a 1v1 10 minutes after the fact and beat them.

And that's not because I'm a better player. Its because they did me the courtesy of not leaping off cliffs and spinning around trees. My skills actually hit them... Imagine.

And, digging deeper, its because my gear and bars were probably set up to 1v1 and theirs were set up to X. They had too much sustain, tankyness, too many skills on their bar designed to be evasive.

Now turn the tables and ask yourself what sort of gear and skills on their bar might a member of a group have? Do they maybe rely on group members and therefore can't do certain things for themselves? Is it really even their fault that they get clapped in a 1v1?

A lot more goes into it than just skill. Everybody you beat isn't guaranteed to be a worse player.

And kiting 10 people until the good ones give up then turning around and smashing the inexperienced 3 isn't much to brag about either.

Iriidius

You shouldnt have to use group burst to kill bad Zerglings not defending themselves. If a player is not blocking, dodging, moving or using any other active defense and not healing himself he shouldnt survive getting focussed because he gets healed by others. It is already very difficult to stay offensive if multiple players are attacking you and you have to kill all of them to destroy the zerg and if you focus one zerglings he will hide behind allies.
If a zerg ambushes a solo player and cant kill him because he runs into a tower and waste their time trying, It is their own fault and they deserve it because they could just have ignored the player. But if 1/multiple player attack a zerg then run in a tower if they get under pressure then come out and attack again as soon as group stopped chasing them and they recovered, they set everyone in combat and annoy them and hinder you from riding away or sieging the keep or logging out and you have to kill them to continue.
Tower running is problematic because if you can survive in a tower you can also use it to harrass people. But without Towers surviving against zergs becomes even more difficult and Zergs will zerg even more agressive.