Fleet Phantom broken, or me bad at math?

EramTheLiar

Maybe I just don't understand how the math works (I'm being serious, I'm not great at the number crunching, especially when it comes to how to properly represent percentages).

So I have a stamina nightblade and a magicka nightblade. The magicka nightblade has Concealed Weapon slotted, which gives him a 25% speed boost while sneaking.

The stamina nightblade has the Fleet Phantom node in the Craft... tree, constellation, whatever, maxed out, which gives him a 25% reduction to movement penalty while sneaking.

So I look at 25% and 25%, and I think "oh, so when sneaking they should move at the same speed." Only they don't.

So is fleet phantom bugged, or do I just not understand the math? It feels like whether you're negating the speed penalty or just overriding it by giving you more speed, you ought to be doing the same thing, but as i said... maybe I just don't understand how the math works.

RealLoveBVB

Are your chars vampires? If yes, then you don't have a sneak penalty anymore and the fleet phantom would be useless at all.

EramTheLiar

No, none of my characters are vampires.

EramTheLiar

Arrrrrgh. It's probably working as intended. But it's also amazingly lame.

I had some gold to spend, so... here's a character with no points in fleet phantom.



Sneak speed is 74% - that's a speed penalty of 26% I guess.

Here's the same character with fleet phantom maxxed out:



That's... a 25% reduction of the 26% penalty, turning it into a 19-20% penalty. (I know that looks weird, because going from 25 to 20 would be 20%, but 25% of 26 is 6.5). Also known is "this is what you do when you've maxxed out everything else, and you're looking for a place to dump some extra CP"

I do love ESO, but ZOS does seem fond of making skills and abilities read way cooler than they wind up being in game.

virtus753

That’s not the right math. You are trying to compare percentages of two different things.

The game calculates speed as a percent figure based on the default jogging speed of 100%. (Take a naked character no speed buffs of any sort and go as fast as you can without consuming stamina.)

Concealed Weapon represents +25% to that value to get 125%.

Now there is a speed penalty of -40% base, meaning with no speed buffs, your 100% will be reduced to 60% of normal speed while sneaking (100%-40%=60%).

Fleet Phantom reduces that penalty by up to 25%, multiplicatively. With only that node and no other things that impact speed, you will see this math:

100% normal speed - (40% * 75%) = 100% - 30% = 70% speed

That (40% * 75%) represents Fleet Phantom taking away 25% of the 40% penalty.

In other words, FP is multiplicative with the speed penalty, which is then subtracted from your normal speed.

If you have vampire or Night's Silence, that 40% base penalty is 0%, so FP does effectively nothing, because you can't go below 0% using multiplication.

ETA: I think I misread my own chart. Speed penalty may be multiplicative: 100% - 40%(1-[sum of speed penalty reductions])

EramTheLiar

On the other side of it, assuming my calculator is reliable, a speed boost of 25% to a base speed of 74% (the reduced sneaking speed) is a boost of 18.5%, which would bring your total speed up to 92.75% -- so yeah, 25% is not created equal here.

EramTheLiar

virtus753 wrote: »

That’s not the right math. You are trying to compare percentages of two different things

Like I said, bad math, but how am I seeing a 74% base speed without fleet phantom if there's a 40% speed penalty? That doesn't line up.

virtus753

EramTheLiar wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

That’s not the right math. You are trying to compare percentages of two different things

Like I said, bad math, but how am I seeing a 74% base speed without fleet phantom if there's a 40% speed penalty? That doesn't line up.

What armor are you wearing?

ETA: Light armor gives speed penalty reduction as well.

7 x light armor = 35% speed penalty reduction

One possible way to get 74% is with all 7 light:

40%*(1-35%) = 26% new speed penalty

virtus753

EramTheLiar wrote: »

On the other side of it, assuming my calculator is reliable, a speed boost of 25% to a base speed of 74% (the reduced sneaking speed) is a boost of 18.5%, which would bring your total speed up to 92.75% -- so yeah, 25% is not created equal here.

Wait until you see how the stable training riding bonus is additive to the base while the others are additive with each other but multiplicative with the rest (Major Gallop, Gifted Rider)...

EramTheLiar

Light armor -- that's what did it.

Well, OK, it looks like fleet phantom is in fact working as intended, I just didn't understand how it actually worked.

virtus753

EramTheLiar wrote: »

Light armor -- that's what did it.

Well, OK, it looks like fleet phantom is in fact working as intended, I just didn't understand how it actually worked.

Yeah, the in-game explanations aren’t the best.

Good luck, and have fun!