Heals are a little ridiculous right now

WordsOfPower

In the interest of curiosity, can I see if we can get actual agreement on this issue?

No more than one occurrence of a named HoT ability can hit a single individual?

If not, WHAT IS YOUR REASON for opposing this hypothetical change?

Urzigurumash

WordsOfPower wrote: »

In the interest of curiosity, can I see if we can get actual agreement on this issue?

No more than one occurrence of a named HoT ability can hit a single individual?

If not, WHAT IS YOUR REASON for opposing this hypothetical change?

I have 3 reasons

1. It's a new feature. What's it going to do, prioritize the strongest instance of any one named HoT? Now it's multiple new features.

2. Solo Queue BGs, what happens when one team brings all the same HoTs, and another team brings a bunch of different HoTs?

3. Why mess with any of that when we could just see what happens when Battlespirit is adjusted?

VarisVaris

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

So as with every update, I play all my classes evenly. I've mostly focused on DK, templar and NB. On all three classes, I am insanely hard to kill, even by multiple targets, even on my squishy NB, because I can heal through massive amounts of damage. The changes to DK Burning Embers alone are just dumb when you consider we already had access with arguably the best heal in the game.

And on top of that, ball group have once again been buffed, making them massively harder to kill than they ever were, while also offering more sets to further push damage. This let's them running a third or even fourth healer, all spamming the same HOTs, stacking them on every player.

I wanted to give this update a fair chance even after seeing the PC complaints, but after the better part of a week on console, I am very concerned with how many fights are just stalemates for minutes on end. It shouldn't take 15 minutes to clear out a 5 man group of DKs when you have 20 plus dropping bombs on them. I've been on both sides of this. I personally find it incredibly boring to just tank people all night long, so I'm leaving behind my DK and templar, focusing on my NB and sorc, but survivability is too high there, as well (though not quite as much).

I mean, look at this explanation to Burning Embers.

This change was made to help offer the Dragonknight more steady healing in the midst of combat,

I don't remember anyone out there campaigning for DK to be even stronger in the heals department.

I think damage on most classes is fine at this point, even if a few are slightly performing better. But the healing is just out of this world. TTK is even higher and everyone on my end seems pretty frustrated.

I'm happy to hear from anyone who disagrees with some good insight that I may be lacking, but this seems like a no brainer.

Healing is a bit to strong right now; I'm sure the devs are monitoring it and will adjust it accordingly.

As someone that plays mainly as a healer PVE and does DPS in PVPs the update has made healing to strong because it is using our highest combined stats. How strong a heal is should be centered around the higher resource pool as many healer forgo spell damage and focus on recovery and their resource pool for additional heals/buffs. By adjusting healing to be based just on resource pool it would improve the game both in PVE and PVP.

No it wouldn't improve PvP at all and I'm tired of having to explain that over and over again.

There is absolutely no reason to change how heals scale in general the only changes needed are linked to individual skills and capping the amount of hot instances one can have on themselves to 2.

Changing how heals scale will create countless issues that the dev team will never be able to control and if they attempt to do so they'll create further problems in the process

Limiting a player to 2 HoT is in itself not viable for classes designed around healing through HoTs. I played other games where one class only healed by HoTs. What should happen is you can't have more than a single HoT from an ability and its morphs. This would greatly reduce the healing that ball groups have. It still wouldn't resolve how much healing a DPS player can do to themselves with burst or self HoTs.

This game honestly needs an adjustment to how healing and damage is calculated. Damage should not use the resource pool to increase damage, it should be either spell or magika damage whichever is higher. Healing should be calculated based on your highest resource pool. Also I would like to see more stamina based healing abilities. Maybe even a healing type of melee or ranged weapon other than the resto staff.

I explicitly said that individual hot instances should be limited to 2 not hots in general,[snip].

Everything you said about healing needing an own stat to scale with is bad and horrible for the game.

[Edit for bait.]

VarisVaris

Urzigurumash wrote: »

WordsOfPower wrote: »

In the interest of curiosity, can I see if we can get actual agreement on this issue?

No more than one occurrence of a named HoT ability can hit a single individual?

If not, WHAT IS YOUR REASON for opposing this hypothetical change?

3. Why mess with any of that when we could just see what happens when Battlespirit is adjusted?

So you want yet another change across the board that will negatively affect every spec while the outliers will still remain stronger relatively.


I can't wait to fight a magplar or magdk that still can't die while they pull 9k dps in a duel and my healing has been reduced by x%
Yes this will totally be an exciting and fun fight.

Urzigurumash

VarisVaris wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

WordsOfPower wrote: »

In the interest of curiosity, can I see if we can get actual agreement on this issue?

No more than one occurrence of a named HoT ability can hit a single individual?

If not, WHAT IS YOUR REASON for opposing this hypothetical change?

3. Why mess with any of that when we could just see what happens when Battlespirit is adjusted?

So you want yet another change across the board that will negatively affect every spec while the outliers will still remain stronger relatively.


I can't wait to fight a magplar or magdk that still can't die while they pull 9k dps in a duel and my healing has been reduced by x%
Yes this will totally be an exciting and fun fight.

My solution is more expedient than perfect, but again, Coag hasn't been buffed since mDK was in the gutter. Obviously mDK got big offensive and sustain buffs which means Coag now supports a much better kit overall, but -

Shouldn't the specs with lower healing have better burst? I don't think there have been any buffs to DK or Necro healing since No Proc Greyhost, when StamBlade and MagSorc were much more easily able to burst opponents down than they are now, and before the last adjustment to Battlespirit. Heals are only half of the equation, victory requires "outhealing damage" or "outdamaging heals".

So a global nerf to healing could help tip the scales a bit more towards NB and Sorc and away from DK and Templar. That's my logic. No good?

VarisVaris

Urzigurumash wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

WordsOfPower wrote: »

In the interest of curiosity, can I see if we can get actual agreement on this issue?

No more than one occurrence of a named HoT ability can hit a single individual?

If not, WHAT IS YOUR REASON for opposing this hypothetical change?

3. Why mess with any of that when we could just see what happens when Battlespirit is adjusted?

So you want yet another change across the board that will negatively affect every spec while the outliers will still remain stronger relatively.


I can't wait to fight a magplar or magdk that still can't die while they pull 9k dps in a duel and my healing has been reduced by x%
Yes this will totally be an exciting and fun fight.

My solution is more expedient than perfect, but again, Coag hasn't been buffed since mDK was in the gutter. Obviously mDK got big offensive and sustain buffs which means Coag now supports a much better kit overall, but -

Shouldn't the specs with lower healing have better burst? I don't think there have been any buffs to DK or Necro healing since No Proc Greyhost, when StamBlade and MagSorc were much more easily able to burst opponents down than they are now, and before the last adjustment to Battlespirit. Heals are only half of the equation, victory requires "outhealing damage" or "outdamaging heals".

So a global nerf to healing could help tip the scales a bit more towards NB and Sorc and away from DK and Templar. That's my logic. No good?

Magdk healing has been significantly buffed over the last year.
Embers hot, whip CD gone, battle roar buff.

Trying to tip the scale towards nb or sorc won't play out as you project it as magdks or magplar will only build for more survivability while their already overwhelming offensive capabilities still allow them to prevent anyone from going on the offense against them.

Meanwhile the nerf will heavily affect any spec that isn't overtuned right now like stamdk, Magden, Stamsorc as they will have even more trouble staying alive.


The nerfs we need have to be pointed towards individual classes and abilities and should be targeted towards giving back classes an identity that makes them fun and challenging to play with and against while reintroducing some limitations specs like magplar and magdk rightfully had in the past

Urzigurumash

VarisVaris wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

WordsOfPower wrote: »

In the interest of curiosity, can I see if we can get actual agreement on this issue?

No more than one occurrence of a named HoT ability can hit a single individual?

If not, WHAT IS YOUR REASON for opposing this hypothetical change?

3. Why mess with any of that when we could just see what happens when Battlespirit is adjusted?

So you want yet another change across the board that will negatively affect every spec while the outliers will still remain stronger relatively.


I can't wait to fight a magplar or magdk that still can't die while they pull 9k dps in a duel and my healing has been reduced by x%
Yes this will totally be an exciting and fun fight.

My solution is more expedient than perfect, but again, Coag hasn't been buffed since mDK was in the gutter. Obviously mDK got big offensive and sustain buffs which means Coag now supports a much better kit overall, but -

Shouldn't the specs with lower healing have better burst? I don't think there have been any buffs to DK or Necro healing since No Proc Greyhost, when StamBlade and MagSorc were much more easily able to burst opponents down than they are now, and before the last adjustment to Battlespirit. Heals are only half of the equation, victory requires "outhealing damage" or "outdamaging heals".

So a global nerf to healing could help tip the scales a bit more towards NB and Sorc and away from DK and Templar. That's my logic. No good?

Magdk healing has been significantly buffed over the last year.
Embers hot, whip CD gone, battle roar buff.

Trying to tip the scale towards nb or sorc won't play out as you project it as magdks or magplar will only build for more survivability while their already overwhelming offensive capabilities still allow them to prevent anyone from going on the offense against them.

Meanwhile the nerf will heavily affect any spec that isn't overtuned right now like stamdk, Magden, Stamsorc as they will have even more trouble staying alive.


The nerfs we need have to be pointed towards individual classes and abilities and should be targeted towards giving back classes an identity that makes them fun and challenging to play with and against while reintroducing some limitations specs like magplar and magdk rightfully had in the past

You're right those are buffs to mDK healing but they don't tell the whole story - the Embers HoT isn't even a week old on my server, there's no appreciable additional healing from Battleroar if Ults are casted on cooldown (we got 4 extra HP per Ult), and some mDK use Molten Whip. For those using Molten the extended time of Seething Fury stacks provides some additional power to healing but these things alone are not what pushed mDK from the worst to the 2nd best class in a single patch.

I'm not opposed to targeted adjustments, of course I would say if Resistant Flesh should have the same tooltip as Mushrooms then Blastbones should start travelling underground - but on that subject, I know many dislike HP scaled heals, but how beneficial for class balance is that nerf to Arctic Winds now? In the absence of unscaled procs HP scaled heals are not as powerful. I did expect a bit more out of this recent buff to Mushrooms though.

Of course I don't know for sure how a global nerf to healing would pan out, nor do I trust anybody's predictions, but this change would:

- Have no impact on PvE, unlike targeted adjustments
- Be easily effectuated and later modified, unlike targeted adjustments
- Be unlikely to introduce new performance issues or bugs, unlike HoT capping

But yes I absolutely agree with your last sentence, that post you wrote about that subject was very well-written and logical. Giving all heals the same tooltip though does nothing for class identity.

I play StamCro and StamDK and I do agree Coag and Resistant are off the hook right now, to be clear, of course we all knew they would be with the hybridization. I'm still not sure about Burning Embers over Venomous though on StamDK, I'm not sure it's worth the Mag when I can just hit Coag another time instead.

Urzigurumash

To make that concise my perspective is just predicated on:

- Battlespirit is the first resort
- New computational features are the last resort
- Nerfs to class skills should be done with extreme caution

So unless or until I'm convinced it can't be solved with Battlespirit, I'll argue for that. I feel like we can see clear evidence of the effects of Battlespirit on class balance from the changes to it over the last year.

But I could be wrong, and I'm persuadable.

auz

Is anyone actually saying reduce the number of hots a player can have on them? Or is it reduce the number of stacks of a hot a person can have on them? Because it is stacks that are the problem. If there is a group of 5 dks or templars each of them can have 3 or 4 stacks of rr on them at any one time. That is what makes these groups extremely hard to kill. Just capping the number of stacks of rr a person can have on them will make a world of difference. And if the cap is 2 it doesn't effect PVE to any great extent except maybe overland, which is too easy anyway.

A blanket nerf to heals is not the answer, because it effects some classes more than others. If each heal was looked at individually and rebalanced, I would not be upset.

A rebalance to healing or even a nerf and capped stacks helps solo players kill faster, it is not a nerf to them it is a buff. The only people hurt by reduced stacks are groups of 3 or 4, (they will be fine), large zergs (will feel it more than everyone else) and ball groups (they will adjust)

xDeusEJRx

Be careful OP, zos might go and add a heal over time affect to each classes DoT abilities. (yes this is a reference at burning embers change)

NeeScrolls

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Be careful OP, zos might go and add a heal over time affect to each classes DoT abilities

Or they might do this instead--> https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/601926/maintenance-on-all-megaservers-april-6-4am-edt .... Assuming that ^ fix is related to this thread?

WordsOfPower

It seems clarification is needed.

I'm talking about SOURCES of HoT.

I want to see the game changed so that a player cannot have two Regens active on them at the same time.

Someone asked me what would happen with solo queued the team with the most different HoTs would win.

This is such flawed logic I don't even know where to start. And besides, until they fix the queue system I'm not even talking about BG changes beyond bringing back DM only.

Urzigurumash

WordsOfPower wrote: »

Someone asked me what would happen with solo queued the team with the most different HoTs would win.

This is such flawed logic I don't even know where to start.

How is that flawed logic? Solo Queue BGs are popular on my server, and heals tend to win these matches even as it is. Which do you think would be changed first, the queue structure again for the 5th time or some brand new feature which prevents HoT stacking?

Again, if you can only have 1 Regen, which ticks, the first cast, the strongest, or what?

divnyi

katorga wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

I would unironically want to see heals cut in half or something like this, and damage being toned down a bit.
Damage done with 2x damage sets should not be outheal'able.

Building for damage = building for heals.

ZOS just needs to reduce the battle spirit damage debuff, to 33% from 50%.

Would put burst builds on the top of the foodchain.
Reducing heals is better approach.

VarisVaris wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

I would unironically want to see heals cut in half or something like this, and damage being toned down a bit.
Damage done with 2x damage sets should not be outheal'able.

And then what?
That will just result in players building more tanky and even more of them playing magdk and magplar because they are the only classes that can attempt to survive every other class will be even easier to kill for them if you nerf heals across the board.

You imply that building heavy and more HP equals building for more heals. It isn't true. You build more HP to survive more burst but you reduce your ability to DPS and HPS, effectively losing in long fights vs min-maxed fighter.

aurelius_fx

easiest fix is to simply cease healing from scaling off spell/weapon damage, it makes less sense than heavy attacks adding resources. If you wanted to be a healer you should focus your entire build on increasing your healing % and maybe max resources, not just slot rapid regen on top of an already powerful spec.

DRTE

Easy fix. bind healing to max stat instead of spell / wep dmg. thing is big dmg = big heals most people build max wep/spell dmg. you remove healing from those stats healing drastically drops.

VarisVaris

DRTE wrote: »

Easy fix. bind healing to max stat instead of spell / wep dmg. thing is big dmg = big heals most people build max wep/spell dmg. you remove healing from those stats healing drastically drops.

DRTE wrote: »

Easy fix. bind healing to max stat instead of spell / wep dmg. thing is big dmg = big heals most people build max wep/spell dmg. you remove healing from those stats healing drastically drops.

Please just read the whole thread again it has been explained more than once why this is a terrible idea that solves nothing but generates many new problems.

aurelius_fx

VarisVaris wrote: »

Please just read the whole thread again it has been explained more than once why this is a terrible idea that solves nothing but generates many new problems.

Detaching healing from weapon/spelldamage will only create more issues without tackling the core problems.

Trying to tip the scale towards nb or sorc won't play out as you project it as magdks or magplar will only build for more survivability while their already overwhelming offensive capabilities still allow them to prevent anyone from going on the offense against them.

I'm happy with either detaching healing from damage or nerfing DK/Templar, particularly templar since it kills DK dots and has virtually no counters with multiple skills that give you health just for doing whatever everyone else is already doing. I'm not saying to completely gut solo heals to the floor either, just leave the big numbers for the people actually looking to be full time healers - as it is in literally every single other game

DrSlaughtr

VarisVaris wrote: »

DRTE wrote: »

Easy fix. bind healing to max stat instead of spell / wep dmg. thing is big dmg = big heals most people build max wep/spell dmg. you remove healing from those stats healing drastically drops.

DRTE wrote: »

Easy fix. bind healing to max stat instead of spell / wep dmg. thing is big dmg = big heals most people build max wep/spell dmg. you remove healing from those stats healing drastically drops.

Please just read the whole thread again it has been explained more than once why this is a terrible idea that solves nothing but generates many new problems.

I don't think anyone made a compelling argument of why this would be bad.

A dedicated healer can run one max stat set with one healing set or group buff set and do their job.

A DD would have to also run at least one max stat set like crafty to pump up their heals. Yes, higher stam/mag increases your damage but doing this means you're choosing crafty over a proc, damage buff set or tank set. You would have to make a sacrifice to hang onto your op healing.

"Players would just build tanker."

I'd rather a player take 10% less damage vs having access to a 20k heal with 3k recovery.

Healers already feel useless outside a ball groups. This would make them more necessary in group play as DDs will have a harder time face tanking multiple sources of damage.

"What about solo players?"

You can't balance the game around someone who wants to 1v12. There have been patches in the past where solo healing was less potent and there were still 1vXers.

xDeusEJRx

TheEndBringer wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

DRTE wrote: »

Easy fix. bind healing to max stat instead of spell / wep dmg. thing is big dmg = big heals most people build max wep/spell dmg. you remove healing from those stats healing drastically drops.

DRTE wrote: »

Easy fix. bind healing to max stat instead of spell / wep dmg. thing is big dmg = big heals most people build max wep/spell dmg. you remove healing from those stats healing drastically drops.

Please just read the whole thread again it has been explained more than once why this is a terrible idea that solves nothing but generates many new problems.

I don't think anyone made a compelling argument of why this would be bad.

A dedicated healer can run one max stat set with one healing set or group buff set and do their job.

A DD would have to also run at least one max stat set like crafty to pump up their heals. Yes, higher stam/mag increases your damage but doing this means you're choosing crafty over a proc, damage buff set or tank set. You would have to make a sacrifice to hang onto your op healing.

"Players would just build tanker."

I'd rather a player take 10% less damage vs having access to a 20k heal with 3k recovery.

Healers already feel useless outside a ball groups. This would make them more necessary in group play as DDs will have a harder time face tanking multiple sources of damage.

"What about solo players?"

You can't balance the game around someone who wants to 1v12. There have been patches in the past where solo healing was less potent and there were still 1vXers.

I personally think they should've removed the free stat damage from PVP via battle spirit. The whole point of giving free damage in Flame of ambition was to help ease transition with new CP tree, not let the power creep go out of control. Take away free damage buffs FoA gave to players, which also reduces their healing because they have less stats

katorga

divnyi wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

I would unironically want to see heals cut in half or something like this, and damage being toned down a bit.
Damage done with 2x damage sets should not be outheal'able.

Building for damage = building for heals.

ZOS just needs to reduce the battle spirit damage debuff, to 33% from 50%.

Would put burst builds on the top of the foodchain.
Reducing heals is better approach.
.

Either. I think it is the same thing.

Personally, I think ALL healing should scale from max mag or max stam. Nothing else. I think ALL damage should scale from max spell or max weapon damage. Nothing else. The amount of damage you can block should scale off health, say 10% per full increment of 10K health (35K health = 30% block).

It would be a defacto blanket reduction in both healing and damage because they would each lose a scaling source. It would permanently put healing at a disadvantage to damage because you can scale damage stats much higher than resource stats. It would force players to build for damage or healing or tanking.

divnyi

katorga wrote: »

I think ALL damage should scale from max spell or max weapon damage. Nothing else.

You will buff 64HP bruiser + recoveries playstyle even harder, now that their damage will also be max possible. Will buff all the WD buff sets through the roof (as if they aren't strong enough already).

katorga wrote: »

The amount of damage you can block should scale off health, say 10% per full increment of 10K health (35K health = 30% block).

What. Why? Block is ez to stack to the cap as it is. We don't need it to be even more easier.

The healing from resource pool part is ok.

YoureWrongImRight

Just try and kill me bro.

Idinuse

?

TheEndBringer wrote: »

So as with every update, I play all my classes evenly. I've mostly focused on DK, templar and NB. On all three classes, I am insanely hard to kill, even by multiple targets, even on my squishy NB, because I can heal through massive amounts of damage. The changes to DK Burning Embers alone are just dumb when you consider we already had access with arguably the best heal in the game.

And on top of that, ball group have once again been buffed, making them massively harder to kill than they ever were, while also offering more sets to further push damage. This let's them running a third or even fourth healer, all spamming the same HOTs, stacking them on every player.

I wanted to give this update a fair chance even after seeing the PC complaints, but after the better part of a week on console, I am very concerned with how many fights are just stalemates for minutes on end. It shouldn't take 15 minutes to clear out a 5 man group of DKs when you have 20 plus dropping bombs on them. I've been on both sides of this. I personally find it incredibly boring to just tank people all night long, so I'm leaving behind my DK and templar, focusing on my NB and sorc, but survivability is too high there, as well (though not quite as much).

I mean, look at this explanation to Burning Embers.

This change was made to help offer the Dragonknight more steady healing in the midst of combat,

I don't remember anyone out there campaigning for DK to be even stronger in the heals department.

I think damage on most classes is fine at this point, even if a few are slightly performing better. But the healing is just out of this world. TTK is even higher and everyone on my end seems pretty frustrated.

I'm happy to hear from anyone who disagrees with some good insight that I may be lacking, but this seems like a no brainer.

I agree with your points about DK and tanks (in PvP) in general and Burning Ambers specifically. But what's almost worse are all the CCs/perma CCs. They need to be heavily tuned down or counters like immovability potion have longer duration again. What's the sport in disabling a player completely from fighting for 6 - 10 seconds only to maul them down with two or three OP hits. It's one of the biggest I Win Buttons / Easy Modes in the game, not to be associated with any "skill" IMHO. In fact if you can't kill a player that's completely taken out of the fighting for so long, you'd have to be pretty bad.

Silversmith

2 of the 3 CP trees improves your mitigation and healing.

1 of the 3 CP trees improves your damage.

The Mitigation Stars out class the Offensive stars in the blue tree and heres the easy math.

You can deal 100 damage with a single target attack. Deadly Aim improves Single target attack damage by 10%. You now deal 110 damage with a single target attack.

The defender has Duelist's Rebuff and takes 10% less damage from Single target attacks.

110 * .9 = 99

Deadly Aim is overshadowed by Duelist's Rebuff. Everything Offensive in the Warfare is overshadowed by it's Defensive counterpart.

Then comes the Fitness tree with heavy mitigation stars like Bracing Anchor +20%, Pain's Refuged 2%-20%. There is no counter stars in the Fitness tree to boost your damage against blocking targets or targets with multiple debuffs. The Fitness Star has Bastion which gives +15% damage against shields. Worthless.

Vampire Stage 3 is up to 30% Mitigation, it's basically a requirement for pvp at this point with no meaningful drawbacks. +13% Fire Damage? Doesn't matter because you will overshadow that long before you reach the 30% Mitigation threshold.

MagDK does 100 base fire damage against you. That damage is now 113 fire damage. This is how it really looks like for mitigation.

At the 12% mark that 113 increased fire damage really does 99.44 damage. There is still 18% mitigation to go.

Food buffs are also massively slanted towards Defense. To give you an idea, an offensive food buff would have to give over 23k Staminia or Magicka to come close to the bonus that HP tri stat food gives to a player in optimized gear.

Being by a keep gives 20% Healing done but no damage bonus.

Capturing a resource gives 10% to Weapon Damage and Spell Power but again, the healing aspect over shadows the damage aspect because healing doesn't have to deal with the targets mitigation while damage does.

Dodge rolling makes you100% mitigate almost every attack in the game for 2 seconds.

You could make it so Healing is also mitigated by resistances and CP stars.
You could nerf all healing received by 95% with Battle Spirit and make each piece of Light Armor improve your healing done by 27%.
You could nerf stacking healing effects.
You could quadruple the damage of dots so their DPS counteracts the HPS after mitigation.
You could add penalties to Medium/Heavy armor that reduces your Healing Done and Shield Strength by 17% per piece.
You could make Battle Spirit reduce healing received by 95%.

The bottom line is this. Defensive values not only outweigh Offensive values in a straight up match. There's also more Defensive traits/skills/CP in the game overall.

Supershutze

Heals being ridiculously powerful is a problem, for sure, but the real problem that's been plaguing the game is that there's zero counterplay to healing.

Everyone heals, because nothing can stop them. It's the most powerful defensive ability in the game because there's no way to counter it.

This also means that there's only one way around this; bursting your opponent *before* they can heal. Congrats, every build is now the same build with different flavours. How boring.

If we want to fix the heal meta, we need ways to seriously reduce enemy healing, and ways to outright prevent healing.

Buff defile back to something useful. Give us sources of powerful heal absorption.

VarisVaris

Supershutze wrote: »

Heals being ridiculously powerful is a problem, for sure, but the real problem that's been plaguing the game is that there's zero counterplay to healing.

Everyone heals, because nothing can stop them. It's the most powerful defensive ability in the game because there's no way to counter it.

This also means that there's only one way around this; bursting your opponent *before* they can heal. Congrats, every build is now the same build with different flavours. How boring.

If we want to fix the heal meta, we need ways to seriously reduce enemy healing, and ways to outright prevent healing.

Buff defile back to something useful. Give us sources of powerful heal absorption.

Please read the explanations given in this thread why heal absorption and buffed defiles are a terrible idea that do not make the game any better

mmtaniac

Same spell should be overwrite by stronger spell , this way heal stacking , will not exist. Instant heals will get more attention. Different Morphs is different spell. Something like that. Or maybe they should add more options to heal absorbtion.

alberichtano

So... how does one make ones templar so hard to kill? My templar dies a lot nowadays.

mmtaniac

I play templar and its hard too die . Of course i like it ,but i hate it at the same time i met to many templars nowdays , it's hard to kill templar while being templar. Living dark + undeath + Rallying cry give templar too much defense.