The Ultimate Battleground Experience.

charlieb

Imagine

You wake up at 5:30 AM. You put in an honest day's work. You get home. Hug your significant other. "Honey, I'm exhausted. I just want to play a couple battlegrounds."

You sit at your computer. Log in to ESO. Loading Screen. 20 minutes go by. *throw hoodie over head* "I'm in."

Now, you're on your cracked Mag DK. Because who doesn't love an underdog story. Click join queue. 11 minutes later, queue pops.

You're excited. Ready to fight along side your teammates. You've been waiting for this all day. You immediately accept.

You're the first one in. Domination is the battleground. Disappointing, but you think to yourself. "We're not here to be an objective playing rat."

Another player joins your team. 24.1k Health. You shiver. He's done for.

Your third teammate joins. 22.5k Health. You throw up a little in your mouth.

You pray you actually get a fourth. Your prayers are heard. The fourth has joined the battleground.

18k Health

Pain. Dread. Agony.

They combine for 36 deaths and 0 kills. But you end up winning the game because they're just rats who run to the open flag while everyone else has fun.

You log off. One game was enough. Climb into bed.

Your significant other asks, "Did you win?" You reply, "Yes," as you hold back tears, because deep down inside... You know.

[snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

gariondavey

Comedy gold, perfectly encapsulates the current environment.

mmtaniac

Yup this kind of people are joke. I like objective modes ,but this is worst thing you can get in team. Zos should make just to TEST TEAM VS TEAM battlegrounds. Maybe this way people will be more forced to make usefull builds. Right now its easier to avoid combat ,thanks too third team.

vindex9ona

"We're not here to be an objective playing rat."
"they're just rats who run to the open flag while everyone else has fun."

So you basically ignored the objective completely and did your DM thing regardless, expecting them to do the same.
And then came here complaining and insulting the ones who actually won the match for you while you ignored any form of teamwork.

If they died 36 times they were not avoiding fights, they were simply bad at it. And probably also getting outnumbered while you were chasing a NB all over the map for your kill.

You could have stayed with your team, support the objective while also killing the people that clearly attacked them over and over to kill them 36 times. There was PVP to be had right there, where your team was. Two birds with one stone.

Instead you took that stone and threw it at your own team, leading to both you and them having a miserable experience in the end.

charlieb

vindex9ona wrote: »

"We're not here to be an objective playing rat."
"they're just rats who run to the open flag while everyone else has fun."

So you basically ignored the objective completely and did your DM thing regardless, expecting them to do the same.
And then came here complaining and insulting the ones who actually won the match for you while you ignored any form of teamwork.

If they died 36 times they were not avoiding fights, they were simply bad at it. And probably also getting outnumbered while you were chasing a NB all over the map for your kill.

You could have stayed with your team, support the objective while also killing the people that clearly attacked them over and over to kill them 36 times. There was PVP to be had right there, where your team was. Two birds with one stone.

Instead you took that stone and threw it at your own team, leading to both you and them having a miserable experience in the end.

I don’t think you’ve played this game before. That’s okay. But in domination, the rats all split and run to separate flags.

vindex9ona

charlieb wrote: »

vindex9ona wrote: »

"We're not here to be an objective playing rat."
"they're just rats who run to the open flag while everyone else has fun."

So you basically ignored the objective completely and did your DM thing regardless, expecting them to do the same.
And then came here complaining and insulting the ones who actually won the match for you while you ignored any form of teamwork.

If they died 36 times they were not avoiding fights, they were simply bad at it. And probably also getting outnumbered while you were chasing a NB all over the map for your kill.

You could have stayed with your team, support the objective while also killing the people that clearly attacked them over and over to kill them 36 times. There was PVP to be had right there, where your team was. Two birds with one stone.

Instead you took that stone and threw it at your own team, leading to both you and them having a miserable experience in the end.

I don’t think you’ve played this game before. That’s okay. But in domination, the rats all split and run to separate flags.

Only since 2014. Don't know where you play, but in PC EU at high MMR rating things don't go that way.

charlieb

vindex9ona wrote: »

charlieb wrote: »

vindex9ona wrote: »

"We're not here to be an objective playing rat."
"they're just rats who run to the open flag while everyone else has fun."

So you basically ignored the objective completely and did your DM thing regardless, expecting them to do the same.
And then came here complaining and insulting the ones who actually won the match for you while you ignored any form of teamwork.

If they died 36 times they were not avoiding fights, they were simply bad at it. And probably also getting outnumbered while you were chasing a NB all over the map for your kill.

You could have stayed with your team, support the objective while also killing the people that clearly attacked them over and over to kill them 36 times. There was PVP to be had right there, where your team was. Two birds with one stone.

Instead you took that stone and threw it at your own team, leading to both you and them having a miserable experience in the end.

I don’t think you’ve played this game before. That’s okay. But in domination, the rats all split and run to separate flags.

Only since 2014. Don't know where you play, but in PC EU at high MMR rating things don't go that way.

Doubt it. But if you have some high mmr objective gameplay I’d love to see it. Seeing all the high level strategies you have to get to the open flags no one is at just might change my mind about objective modes and rats.

vindex9ona

And I doubt no one was at those flags. Someone killed those players 36 times and I doubt it was a single player doing it all.
When and where I play (solo) the team tends to more or less stick together, or split in a couple of groups, and there is always PVP going on at the flags in any mode. No high level strategies needed, just common sense.
The only ones running away are those who do DM regardless of the mode the game rolled at.

Sure, if the majority of players ignore the game mode and do DM in one part of the map, then the flags will remain empty, but in this case the issue is those players (a group you belong to as per your own words). And fortunately that doesn't happen often in my matches.

Dem_kitkats1

I'm on PC NA and I have yet to come across matches like this. I'm not saying this never happens, but from my experience it's rare, unless you're in lowbies. Most of the players on my teams, as well as my opponents seem to be on the same page. With the exception of 1 or 2 people, the majority of players I've come across are not afraid to fight or defend their objectives and teammates. I've been running solo this patch so I'm not sure what the group queue is like, but I haven't come across full teams of tanks, or people solely running to objectives. As a solo I can understand it's disheartening to have a team of inexperienced players, but that's the nature of this game, and why it's not competitive. So no need to take it so seriously.

Besides, if you're a skilled player, it shouldn't matter that much who your teammates are, or do you need that much hand holding? If you participated in the fun what does it matter what other's are doing? If you chose not to based on your team, well then the only thing holding you back from the fun was yourself.

I do agree though, players shouldn't be able to just run around to flags openly. The Objective modes desperately need a redesign, and the scoring should be changed. Medal scoring should weigh much more than the number of objectives collected. This would incentive more players to actually fight for and defend the objectives, because simply collecting them won't win them the match.

*The magDK underdog bit though, I laughed out loud at that one.

charlieb

vindex9ona wrote: »

And I doubt no one was at those flags. Someone killed those players 36 times and I doubt it was a single player doing it all.
When and where I play (solo) the team tends to more or less stick together, or split in a couple of groups, and there is always PVP going on at the flags in any mode. No high level strategies needed, just common sense.
The only ones running away are those who do DM regardless of the mode the game rolled at.

Sure, if the majority of players ignore the game mode and do DM in one part of the map, then the flags will remain empty, but in this case the issue is those players (a group you belong to as per your own words). And fortunately that doesn't happen often in my matches.

https://imgur.com/a/BSibmwY

vindex9ona

charlieb wrote: »

vindex9ona wrote: »

And I doubt no one was at those flags. Someone killed those players 36 times and I doubt it was a single player doing it all.
When and where I play (solo) the team tends to more or less stick together, or split in a couple of groups, and there is always PVP going on at the flags in any mode. No high level strategies needed, just common sense.
The only ones running away are those who do DM regardless of the mode the game rolled at.

Sure, if the majority of players ignore the game mode and do DM in one part of the map, then the flags will remain empty, but in this case the issue is those players (a group you belong to as per your own words). And fortunately that doesn't happen often in my matches.

https://imgur.com/a/BSibmwY

Last post in this thread, as I cannot explain it any clearer than this.
There are 12 players, and far less flags in any game mode. Especially if the players split and each one runs at a different flag, PVP will inevitably ensue.

If it doesn't, it means that a good portion of players are not going to the flags, but decide to ignore them and dish it out in the center of the map, leaving the flags empty.
As long as everybody goes for the objective, PVP must happen because the objectives (i.e. flags/relics/ball) are less than the players that should be going for them.

It's the players ignoring the game mode and doing DM regardless that leave the flags empty and prevent PVP from taking place there.
Those players (yourself included) create the problem and then come here complaining about the problem they created, putting it on the shoulders of the ones who are actually trying to win the game, regardless of how inexperienced they are and how ineffective their builds might be.

The ball, the flags, the relics, those things are meant to lure players in specific places precisely so that PVP can happen, while also giving it a little shade of basic strategy (attack a relic or defend yours, defend a flag or go for one that is being captured, protect the ball bearer or focus on him/her) and moving things around instead of constantly having a single DM fight taking place at one location.

The system works as long as people are going for those objectives, and it stops working when people ignore them, not realizing that it's their actions that are making the match boring and the game mode ineffective.

charlieb

Wrong.

gariondavey

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

I'm on PC NA and I have yet to come across matches like this. I'm not saying this never happens, but from my experience it's rare, unless you're in lowbies. Most of the players on my teams, as well as my opponents seem to be on the same page. With the exception of 1 or 2 people, the majority of players I've come across are not afraid to fight or defend their objectives and teammates. I've been running solo this patch so I'm not sure what the group queue is like, but I haven't come across full teams of tanks, or people solely running to objectives. As a solo I can understand it's disheartening to have a team of inexperienced players, but that's the nature of this game, and why it's not competitive. So no need to take it so seriously.

Besides, if you're a skilled player, it shouldn't matter that much who your teammates are, or do you need that much hand holding? If you participated in the fun what does it matter what other's are doing? If you chose not to based on your team, well then the only thing holding you back from the fun was yourself.

I do agree though, players shouldn't be able to just run around to flags openly. The Objective modes desperately need a redesign, and the scoring should be changed. Medal scoring should weigh much more than the number of objectives collected. This would incentive more players to actually fight and defend the objectives, because simply collecting them won't win them the match.

*The magDK underdog bit though, I laughed out loud at that one.

Weird, in camerabeardthepirate's thread you mentioned you know how camera blows up people like this.
This happens on pcna all the time. I know because on our bg guild discord we share these types of screenshots daily.

Dem_kitkats1

gariondavey wrote: »

Weird, in camerabeardthepirate's thread you mentioned you know how camera blows up people like this.
This happens on pcna all the time. I know because on our bg guild discord we share these types of screenshots daily.

In that thread I meant that if Camera and his team wanted to simply farm players, the winning team wouldn't have had only 2 deaths total. I understand that in some matches farming players can achieve high kill counts, but in my experience that's rare in the solo queue. Not once have I encountered kill numbers as high as the photo that OP posted, unless you're in lowbies. This is because, as other's have claimed, there are still more players in BGs that prefer DMs, which means that most of the players I've come across know how to fight and defend themselves and are happy to do so, as do the Objective players who stuck it out in the queues last patch. Again, I'm speaking only from my experience in the solo queue. So, yeah, if you're on premades coming across teams of inexperienced players like OP's, then yeah I'm sure you're able to get a lot of kills. But premades is a whole other discussion.

PhoenixGrey

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Weird, in camerabeardthepirate's thread you mentioned you know how camera blows up people like this.
This happens on pcna all the time. I know because on our bg guild discord we share these types of screenshots daily.

In that thread I meant that if Camera and his team wanted to simply farm players, the winning team wouldn't have had only 2 deaths total. I understand that in some matches farming players can achieve high kill counts, but in my experience that's rare in the solo queue. Not once have I encountered kill numbers as high as the photo that OP posted, unless you're in lowbies. This is because, as other's have claimed, there are still more players in BGs that prefer DMs, which means that most of the players I've come across know how to fight and defend themselves and are happy to do so, as do the Objective players who stuck it out in the queues last patch. Again, I'm speaking only from my experience in the solo queue. So, yeah, if you're on premades coming across teams of inexperienced players like OP's, then yeah I'm sure you're able to get a lot of kills. But premades is a whole other discussion.

It makes zero sense that objective players might even have a skill bar setup or proper gear on, let alone fighting.

The best and the most efficient way to win objective bgs is to avoid fights at all costs so I m not sure if that kind of player needs to bother with skill and gear

Dem_kitkats1

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

It makes zero sense that objective players might even have a skill bar setup or proper gear on, let alone fighting.

The best and the most efficient way to win objective bgs is to avoid fights at all costs so I m not sure if that kind of player needs to bother with skill and gear

I mean players that actually enjoy PvP but would love proper Objective modes more than DM. Players that will play the Objective but have no problem fighting for them or defending them. There are players like that out there. Revolutionary I know...

HonestFarmer

Yup, this is the state of Battleground right now after ZOS brought objective modes back. I've been seeing a lot more 20k hp players and Bow NB in my games. I enjoy playing for objectives, but these people ruin it for me.

_adhyffbjjjf12

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Weird, in camerabeardthepirate's thread you mentioned you know how camera blows up people like this.
This happens on pcna all the time. I know because on our bg guild discord we share these types of screenshots daily.

In that thread I meant that if Camera and his team wanted to simply farm players, the winning team wouldn't have had only 2 deaths total. I understand that in some matches farming players can achieve high kill counts, but in my experience that's rare in the solo queue. Not once have I encountered kill numbers as high as the photo that OP posted, unless you're in lowbies. This is because, as other's have claimed, there are still more players in BGs that prefer DMs, which means that most of the players I've come across know how to fight and defend themselves and are happy to do so, as do the Objective players who stuck it out in the queues last patch. Again, I'm speaking only from my experience in the solo queue. So, yeah, if you're on premades coming across teams of inexperienced players like OP's, then yeah I'm sure you're able to get a lot of kills. But premades is a whole other discussion.

just because you enjoy objective based pvp (think Dm buty with a layer of complexity on top) does not mean you do

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Weird, in camerabeardthepirate's thread you mentioned you know how camera blows up people like this.
This happens on pcna all the time. I know because on our bg guild discord we share these types of screenshots daily.

In that thread I meant that if Camera and his team wanted to simply farm players, the winning team wouldn't have had only 2 deaths total. I understand that in some matches farming players can achieve high kill counts, but in my experience that's rare in the solo queue. Not once have I encountered kill numbers as high as the photo that OP posted, unless you're in lowbies. This is because, as other's have claimed, there are still more players in BGs that prefer DMs, which means that most of the players I've come across know how to fight and defend themselves and are happy to do so, as do the Objective players who stuck it out in the queues last patch. Again, I'm speaking only from my experience in the solo queue. So, yeah, if you're on premades coming across teams of inexperienced players like OP's, then yeah I'm sure you're able to get a lot of kills. But premades is a whole other discussion.

It makes zero sense that objective players might even have a skill bar setup or proper gear on, let alone fighting.

The best and the most efficient way to win objective bgs is to avoid fights at all costs so I m not sure if that kind of player needs to bother with skill and gear

this is the elitist attitude that ruins this game and scares new players away quite frankly.

Urzigurumash

The best and the most efficient way to win objective bgs is to avoid fights at all costs so I m not sure if that kind of player needs to bother with skill and gear

This is only true in Chaosball if you have the ball. That's why I propose a 90% snare on the ball.

This would focus combat in one area more than any other mode, including Death Match.

People like ball games. People say all the popular ball sports only have 2 teams, but that's not true. Croquet and golf, for instance.

But imagine if croquet had one single ball, and it weighed 300 pounds, how excellent of a format this would be for BGs.

charlieb

Urzigurumash wrote: »

The best and the most efficient way to win objective bgs is to avoid fights at all costs so I m not sure if that kind of player needs to bother with skill and gear

This is only true in Chaosball if you have the ball. That's why I propose a 90% snare on the ball.

This would focus combat in one area more than any other mode, including Death Match.

People like ball games. People say all the popular ball sports only have 2 teams, but that's not true. Croquet and golf, for instance.

But imagine if croquet had one single ball, and it weighed 300 pounds, how excellent of a format this would be for BGs.

Did you just compare sports where you take turns to chaos ball? [snip] Chaos ball is terrible. 90% snare would just mean a tank grabs the ball and holds block til he dies. How fun and engaging.

Chaos ball and domination need to be scrapped. Capture the relic needs to be 2 6v6 teams and crazy king should only be 1 flag that rotates points. Objective modes fixed.

[edited for profanity bypass]

kwinter

I find the battleground maps can play a big part on how different games are play. Some encourage more fighting will other allow for players to be able to avoid fights. I forgot the name but small map that has the lava always seem to have a lot of fights regardless of mode compare to the other maps

gariondavey

And th

charlieb wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

The best and the most efficient way to win objective bgs is to avoid fights at all costs so I m not sure if that kind of player needs to bother with skill and gear

This is only true in Chaosball if you have the ball. That's why I propose a 90% snare on the ball.

This would focus combat in one area more than any other mode, including Death Match.

People like ball games. People say all the popular ball sports only have 2 teams, but that's not true. Croquet and golf, for instance.

But imagine if croquet had one single ball, and it weighed 300 pounds, how excellent of a format this would be for BGs.

Did you just compare sports where you take turns to chaos ball? [snip] Chaos ball is terrible. 90% snare would just mean a tank grabs the ball and holds block til he dies. How fun and engaging.

Chaos ball and domination need to be scrapped. Capture the relic needs to be 2 6v6 teams and crazy king should only be 1 flag that rotates points. Objective modes fixed.

Agreed except for chaosball. I enjoy it. Can get more kills than dm!
I just dislike the position exploits people do

[edited to remove quote]

Urzigurumash

charlieb wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

The best and the most efficient way to win objective bgs is to avoid fights at all costs so I m not sure if that kind of player needs to bother with skill and gear

This is only true in Chaosball if you have the ball. That's why I propose a 90% snare on the ball.

This would focus combat in one area more than any other mode, including Death Match.

People like ball games. People say all the popular ball sports only have 2 teams, but that's not true. Croquet and golf, for instance.

But imagine if croquet had one single ball, and it weighed 300 pounds, how excellent of a format this would be for BGs.

Did you just compare sports where you take turns to chaos ball? [snip] Chaos ball is terrible. 90% snare would just mean a tank grabs the ball and holds block til he dies. How fun and engaging.

Chaos ball and domination need to be scrapped. Capture the relic needs to be 2 6v6 teams and crazy king should only be 1 flag that rotates points. Objective modes fixed.

Even better, imagine one ball croquet without the turn structure, it would be the most exciting sport on TV

Either of those other ideas would work, but of all the objectives Chaosball requires the least amount of work to make it something exciting and competitive. Snare on the ball, done. I don't recall a time in BGs history when a tank has been able to stand there and eat both teams offense for long, cheesing Chaosball always depended on the tank getting away.

Regardless Chaosball contradicts this suggestion that objective modes disincentivize engaging the opponent in a three team format. That mode works with 3 teams - except for being able to get away with the ball.

[edited to remove quote]

CameraBeardThePirate

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Regardless Chaosball contradicts this suggestion that objective modes disincentivize engaging the opponent in a three team format. That mode works with 3 teams - except for being able to get away with the ball.

This is because it's the only objective mode where there are fewer objectives then teams. If there are going to continue to be 3 teams in BGs, the number of objectives needs to be reduced or it will always be more efficient to avoid engagements to cap empty objectives.

Urzigurumash

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Regardless Chaosball contradicts this suggestion that objective modes disincentivize engaging the opponent in a three team format. That mode works with 3 teams - except for being able to get away with the ball.

This is because it's the only objective mode where there are fewer objectives then teams. If there are going to continue to be 3 teams in BGs, the number of objectives needs to be reduced or it will always be more efficient to avoid engagements to cap empty objectives.

You're absolutely right. OP's suggestion for 1 flag Crazy King is also pretty good, it would still incentivize fleeing when the new flag pops up but it would work. That way there would still be 3 distinct modes.

RealLoveBVB

How is 1 flag any good? It's just another form of deathmatch, just that you fight in a 5x5 meter area than the whole arena.

Point of objectivemodes is, that it requires strategic and tactical thinking, which is not needed in DM.

Urzigurumash

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

How is 1 flag any good? It's just another form of deathmatch, just that you fight in a 5x5 meter area than the whole arena.

Point of objectivemodes is, that it requires strategic and tactical thinking, which is not needed in DM.

True maybe if more of these DMers kept a copy of Napoleon's Maxims or Vegetius' De Re Militari by their side they wouldn't struggle to win so badly

xDeusEJRx

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

How is 1 flag any good? It's just another form of deathmatch, just that you fight in a 5x5 meter area than the whole arena.

Point of objectivemodes is, that it requires strategic and tactical thinking, which is not needed in DM.

The point is that it bridges the gap, people hate objective game modes because it's akin to PVE, you can win without needing to pvp because 3 teams means team 3 can let teams 1 and 2 duke it out and then team 3 can just take the objective unchallenged without fighting. Lowering objectives means that you can't try to win game modes by just avoiding other players. It's like how chaosball works, chaosball is better because there's 1 objective, but it still sucks because chaos ball players just play run simulator around the map with the chaosball to avoid PVP'ing.

There is no "strategy" here, the strategy is just, don't engage with players and avoid players and get rewarded for not engaging with players. Because if you engage with players, you lose the game because it's better to never fight a player and use that time to just earn points instead. Like I said team 3 never has to engage with team 1 and 2(because those 2 are actually PVP'ing while also playing objective) and they can just avoid PVP and just focus solely on objectives

charlieb

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

How is 1 flag any good? It's just another form of deathmatch, just that you fight in a 5x5 meter area than the whole arena.

Point of objectivemodes is, that it requires strategic and tactical thinking, which is not needed in DM.

How is running to a flag that no one is at STRATEGIC AND TACTICAL? Please enlighten me.

RealLoveBVB

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

How is 1 flag any good? It's just another form of deathmatch, just that you fight in a 5x5 meter area than the whole arena.

Point of objectivemodes is, that it requires strategic and tactical thinking, which is not needed in DM.

Like I said team 3 never has to engage with team 1 and 2(because those 2 are actually PVP'ing while also playing objective) and they can just avoid PVP and just focus solely on objectives

Mhm. Is that a thing on group queue then? I am just running solo queue and have rarely scenes where the teams stack together the whole match.
On flag fights the teams are pretty spread and you often have only 1vs2, 2vs2 minimal fights on flags and rarely big team clashes.

But besides that. That's the part where the strategically decision is made: if you are team 1 and you see a whole stack of team 2 on a flag, then you need to go for another flag, since fighting/turning the flag would cost too much time.

charlieb wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

How is 1 flag any good? It's just another form of deathmatch, just that you fight in a 5x5 meter area than the whole arena.

Point of objectivemodes is, that it requires strategic and tactical thinking, which is not needed in DM.

How is running to a flag that no one is at STRATEGIC AND TACTICAL? Please enlighten me.

I will enlighten you.
In flag fights you gain points for active flags every 5 seconds. If you go for a empty flag, you can turn it fast without problems = profit= points for the team.

Fighting endless fights on flags= flag doesn't turn=no profit= no points for the team.

You are welcome.

RealLoveBVB

Maybe try /flute. It may get you points too