baron thirsk and prior thierric monster sets

Necrotech_Master

so im not sure if there is some weird condition on the procs for these, but i noticed there is a lot of discrepancy when it comes to how they proc, not sure if i am missing something or if there really is a bug or some other *** going on

prior theirric procs from "dealing direct damage with an area of effect ability"

baron thirsk procs from "dealing area direct damage"

case 1: shock clench

• this ability has a direct aoe dmg component, however it will not proc either set (why!?!?! lol)

case 2: necromancer colossus ultimate

• this ability will proc prior thierric, but will not proc baron thirsk (even though it explicitly is direct dmg aoe) (also why!?!?!? lol)

case 3: grave robber synergy

• this synergy does proc baron thirsk (i did not fully test with prior thierric because i was just trying to figure out what would proc baron thirsk)

case 4: conduit synergy (a friend playing a sorc helped me test this)

• this synergy does proc baron thirsk (i did not fully test with prior thierric because i was just trying to figure out what would proc baron thirsk)

case 5: impulse (ranged morph)

• this synergy will not proc prior thierric, but will proc baron thirsk (opposite problem of the colossus ult) (again why?!?!? lol)

so, right now im just trying to understand exactly why there is such a great discrepancy in how these sets proc, because both cases should proc from the same abilities (since for example dark convergence cant proc another proc, it cannot itself proc baron thirsk, which does work correctly as it does not trigger baron thirsk)

kringled_1

Shock clench is probably because the aoe component derives from a passive. Other passive only effects such as nb major resolve from shadow abilities often don't proc sets.
The fact that cases 2 and 5 are opposite is baffling to me.

Necrotech_Master

destructive clench with a shock staff specifically includes aoe dmg in the skill (part of the "unique" effect of the skill for the shock staff, fire adds the KB and ice does taunt)

deals direct dmg to the target, and deals direct dmg in an AOE around the target (does this regardless if you have the destro passive)

EF321

I think targeted damage from Clench is single target, and only cleave damage is considered AoE. Try targeting something so you cleave something else too.

That was the case when I tested baron with haunting curse - it will proc if explosions hits another target.

Necrotech_Master

EF321 wrote: »

I think targeted damage from Clench is single target, and only cleave damage is considered AoE. Try targeting something so you cleave something else too.

That was the case when I tested baron with haunting curse - it will proc if explosions hits another target.

i tested using both single and group of target dummies, i would have to check again if it proc'd on the group of dummies though (will do later tonight)

i can see it not procing on the single target for the reason you mention as the skill specifically noted that the aoe only hits enemies around the target

Necrotech_Master

after doing some additional checking, shock clench will proc baron, but only from the aoe component (it also procs prior theirric in the same way as i tested both sets) (so this part appears to be working correctly, too hasty of testing lol)

necro colossus still cannot proc baron, but it definitely procs prior theirric (something is still weird here)

re-tested impulse and now im seeing it proc prior theirric (appears to be working correctly, and this might have been more hasty testing lol)

OtarTheMad

I can't get Baron to proc... confirm bugged? A lot of skills are direct damage and yet almost nothing procs this

Necrotech_Master

the proc on this from what i could tell requires the dmg to be both direct and aoe

• so impulse (and morphs) have no problem procing it
• necro colossus will proc it
• shock clench can proc it, but not on the direct target you are aiming for because the aoe dmg happens separately from the main hit

which skills were you trying to use to get it to proc?

Kahnak

I had to do some testing on Prior Thierric to figure out exactly what procced it. I am able to use it pretty successfully on my Stam Templar with Biting Jabs, but initially I thought that I could use something like Cleave and was really surprised when Cleave didn't work. Those abilities both work in a similar way (aside from one technically being a channeled ability), so it's not clear to me what the distinction between them is meant to be that causes one to work and the other to not work.

OtarTheMad

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the proc on this from what i could tell requires the dmg to be both direct and aoe

• so impulse (and morphs) have no problem procing it
• necro colossus will proc it
• shock clench can proc it, but not on the direct target you are aiming for because the aoe dmg happens separately from the main hit

which skills were you trying to use to get it to proc?

ah, well that makes sense. I didn't try those. They should update the set to say that

Vaoh

Every single ability in the game should very clearly state what kind of ability it is and what each damage/healing value is considered to be. Is it direct? If a portion is direct and a portion is DoT, does it all benefit from Thaumaturge, half of it, or none of it? Etc.

This is all crucial for creating a build with sensible set proc conditions and good champion point allocations.

The fact you have to test an ability to find out what game “thinks” it might be is already a failure on the Devs part.

Necrotech_Master

Vaoh wrote: »

Every single ability in the game should very clearly state what kind of ability it is and what each damage/healing value is considered to be. Is it direct? If a portion is direct and a portion is DoT, does it all benefit from Thaumaturge, half of it, or none of it? Etc.

This is all crucial for creating a build with sensible set proc conditions and good champion point allocations.

The fact you have to test an ability to find out what game “thinks” it might be is already a failure on the Devs part.

generally speaking most skills are fairly straightforward as they usually state if they have an aoe, and a single tick of dmg is usually direct while "dmg every 1 second" or "dmg over X seconds" is dot

the weird ones are usually like jabs/flurry which are multiple hits of direct dmg during the channel, while like radiant oppression is dot channel

jabs is an even weirder cases because its a cone + direct dmg, but might also be counted as DOT too

then there is stuff like shock clench, which has both a direct and aoe component

i agree it could be a little more obvious for some of the skills, especially ones that have additional components like shock clench (the aoe does not affect the initial target, but is not mentioned anywhere)

Vaoh

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Every single ability in the game should very clearly state what kind of ability it is and what each damage/healing value is considered to be. Is it direct? If a portion is direct and a portion is DoT, does it all benefit from Thaumaturge, half of it, or none of it? Etc.

This is all crucial for creating a build with sensible set proc conditions and good champion point allocations.

The fact you have to test an ability to find out what game “thinks” it might be is already a failure on the Devs part.

generally speaking most skills are fairly straightforward as they usually state if they have an aoe, and a single tick of dmg is usually direct while "dmg every 1 second" or "dmg over X seconds" is dot

the weird ones are usually like jabs/flurry which are multiple hits of direct dmg during the channel, while like radiant oppression is dot channel

jabs is an even weirder cases because its a cone + direct dmg, but might also be counted as DOT too

then there is stuff like shock clench, which has both a direct and aoe component

i agree it could be a little more obvious for some of the skills, especially ones that have additional components like shock clench (the aoe does not affect the initial target, but is not mentioned anywhere)

They just need to have “simple” and “detailed” versions of ability descriptions you can toggle in the Options setting. I think Diablo 3 had this?

Simple just has a basic description that sounds cool and only shows the damage value. Complex gives all the details of how each value scales etc.

There is way too much reliance on outside sources to understand this game.

Necrotech_Master

Vaoh wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Every single ability in the game should very clearly state what kind of ability it is and what each damage/healing value is considered to be. Is it direct? If a portion is direct and a portion is DoT, does it all benefit from Thaumaturge, half of it, or none of it? Etc.

This is all crucial for creating a build with sensible set proc conditions and good champion point allocations.

The fact you have to test an ability to find out what game “thinks” it might be is already a failure on the Devs part.

generally speaking most skills are fairly straightforward as they usually state if they have an aoe, and a single tick of dmg is usually direct while "dmg every 1 second" or "dmg over X seconds" is dot

the weird ones are usually like jabs/flurry which are multiple hits of direct dmg during the channel, while like radiant oppression is dot channel

jabs is an even weirder cases because its a cone + direct dmg, but might also be counted as DOT too

then there is stuff like shock clench, which has both a direct and aoe component

i agree it could be a little more obvious for some of the skills, especially ones that have additional components like shock clench (the aoe does not affect the initial target, but is not mentioned anywhere)

They just need to have “simple” and “detailed” versions of ability descriptions you can toggle in the Options setting. I think Diablo 3 had this?

Simple just has a basic description that sounds cool and only shows the damage value. Complex gives all the details of how each value scales etc.

There is way too much reliance on outside sources to understand this game.

that might help, honestly havent checked to see if there was an addon to figure this out as well, but it probably should be something that should be included as part of the base game

like the skills already have info showing stuff like if it is single target, or have a size of aoe, but its not descriptive to tell if its a ground or direct aoe (DK standard (ground aoe) vs silver shards (aoe centered on target) vs impulse (aoe, that is not on ground but still chosen location)

all of them will be marked with an aoe radius, but functionally speaking they all work quite differently