NERF thread… Cloak

xPoisin

Hello there, yes this is another NERF thread…
Please ZOS give us at least a chance to fight such a broken class… Give cloak a colldown and make DoTs broke the cloak…
Nightblades are such a overpowered class with cloak that is broken (today we have had fight with NB that just cloaked through 6 or 7 AoEs ).
Also the neverending stun from broken surprise attack with zero CC/stun immunity…

It is broken that my MagDK cannot use half of skills in BGsor Cyro, my gaplcosers do not work on my stam toons, I can handle a templar but not without basic skills working… I have no issues with other classes but those mindless cloaking freaks that are deathmatching only should have some limitations…
From my point of view, give cloak a 4 secs cooldown, repair the broken surprise attack stun from flank (cause there is no stun or CC immunity applied) and please bring back DoT breaking the cloak…

PS: yeah, I got 3 nightblades which Inuse to hunt down other nightblades and I know how broken this class is when played well…

biminirwb17_ESO

IF you are playing a MagDK and are having difficulties with Nightblades may I politely suggest its not the Nightblades fault.

xPoisin

Nope, I mostly play templar healer or magden healer, so I have the clear view on what is going on during fights 😁
And yes, I am the preffered target for NBs sniping and cloaking or cloaking and neverendingly stunning me in place with full stamina bar without chance to break free…

biminirwb17_ESO

Lethal Arrow when it hits breaks cloak
Any DoT applied by a NB breaks cloak
NPCs break cloak
Mudcrabs break cloak

The defense rests

xPoisin

I suspended my magdk toon I played for almost 6 years for now that skills are not working most of the time… I am not the top tier player but in no cp cyro I ended in top 100 almost always (in the last 20-30 places but still there )…
I started to level up new toons and I see in low lvl BGs and in regullar BGs so many NBs that are just ruining the experience from fights… It is a nice game when no NB is in queue, when Dks are trying to counter templars, templars are countering necros and wardens and pet sorcs are running away 😂
Such a fights are so nice to watch and everybody is fine even if they loose, because no sneaky creature is striking them from shadows after they finish off the oponnent and have last 20% health with fast zero resources, or sniping them from platform because that is the place where they are safe from direct fight.

xPoisin

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

Lethal Arrow when it hits breaks cloak
Any DoT applied by a NB breaks cloak
NPCs break cloak
Mudcrabs break cloak

The defense rests

Nope, only DOT that breaks cloak is sorcs haunting curse with delayed damage… Only new AoEs damage ticks can break cloak… I played a Dk stam and mag and have seen NBs cloaking with 3-5 DoTs ticking on them…
A long time ago DoTs were breaking NBs cloak but nowadays it is not true… Also the AoE damage is bugged according to last two patches as you can see NBs cloaking through cloaking through AoE (caltrops, wall of element, ritual of retribution, etc.)…

xPoisin

Kaysha wrote: »

[snip]

yes or no, I was just too much frustrated from nightblades 🤪🤪🤪

[edited to remove quote]

biminirwb17_ESO

The NB that hits YOU with lethal arrow snipe will be pulled out of cloak each time the poison status effect ticks. Any DoT the NB hits YOU with will break cloak.

If you remove cloak from a NB what should they get instead? Consider the major buffs your DK has as passives

xPoisin

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

The NB that hits YOU with lethal arrow snipe will be pulled out of cloak each time the poison status effect ticks. Any DoT the NB hits YOU with will break cloak.

If you remove cloak from a NB what should they get instead? Consider the major buffs your DK has as passives

Ok, I was talking about DoTs that are apllied on the NB and that these DoTs do not break the cloak…
Cloaking with vamp stage 3 gives you additional spell and weapon dmg bonus and NBs can use this buff endlessly — I knew cause I play a NB toon…

biminirwb17_ESO

Stage 2 vampire with the Strike from the Shadows passive gives you 300 spell or weapon damage, when you leave sneak, mistform or invisibilty. These skills are not exclusively NB skills and can be used by all classes.

xPoisin

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

Stage 2 vampire with the Strike from the Shadows passive gives you 300 spell or weapon damage, when you leave sneak, mistform or invisibilty. These skills are not exclusively NB skills and can be used by all classes.

Have you ever tried to enter sneak in the middle of battle ? NB just cloaks and got it, all other classes can pop a potion (once a 45 second) or nothing… So 300 spell dmg plus all bonuses from sneak attack (cause cloak gives them) anytime NB wants…

TechMaybeHic

xPoisin wrote: »

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

Stage 2 vampire with the Strike from the Shadows passive gives you 300 spell or weapon damage, when you leave sneak, mistform or invisibilty. These skills are not exclusively NB skills and can be used by all classes.

Have you ever tried to enter sneak in the middle of battle ? NB just cloaks and got it, all other classes can pop a potion (once a 45 second) or nothing… So 300 spell dmg plus all bonuses from sneak attack (cause cloak gives them) anytime NB wants…

It works with mist form.


NBs are fine.

DrSlaughtr

magDKs have multiple skills that wreck NBs, as well as multiple buffs and passives that make them significantly hard to kill. They the strongest spec right now and for the foreseeable future. If you are dying easy to one NB then your build is off.

Plus there are multiple open class skills to can run to specifically counter them. Radiant mage light stops you from being CCd from stealth. Revealing Flares stuns NBs and gives major protection.

divnyi

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

Any DoT the NB hits YOU with will break cloak.

Not true. Only direct damage hits break the cloak, DoT damage (dark yellow numbers) don't break the cloak.
Now some dots in the game still do break cloak, but not a lot. Notable: DW blade cloak, Meteor AoE DoT.

It was changed in the same patch where cloak got reworked and anti-stealth tools got a range buff and a tick rate buff.

OP, if you want to kill NBs, use anti-NB tools.

If you want EZ slaughter, use pots. They are overpowered.

Use detection skills with radius around you, use them preemprively. You can cast them BEFORE enemy cloaks if you know that you fight NB. You can cast them and sprint into NB if you know his location to strike first.

Lastly, you can just attack with AoE direct damage skills, they break cloak too, but good NBs will be able to time the cloak straight after you land a hit. Since DKs fire/poison AoE snares, you have a good chance to hit more and more in a rapid succession.

Dekrypted

divnyi wrote: »

OP, if you want to kill NBs, use anti-NB tools.

If you want EZ slaughter, use pots. They are overpowered.

Use detection skills with radius around you, use them preemprively. You can cast them BEFORE enemy cloaks if you know that you fight NB. You can cast them and sprint into NB if you know his location to strike first.

What is weird about the buffs zos had done to the reveal skills is not MATCH the cost of the reveal skills with cloak. Using a reveal skill has a huge cost compared to a nightblade using their off stat (stamblade) and main stat (magblade) for cloak at a lower cost than the reveal itself.

Being forced to use a potion when a nightblade can just stun you and kite until they can safely cloak is such a easy counter to the pot. I know because i do that on my nightblade. Add a ramping cost increase to cloak like streak or make its cost the same as the reveal skill.

The changes they made to cloak during that patch imo made it consistent, but made it more powerful than it was in previous patches.

Cloak is strong, but doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground. It just needs some balance and addressing the disparity in costs vs the cost to reveal a target should be the first place to start.

(Edited for typos)

divnyi

Dekrypted wrote: »

Being forced to use a potion when a nightblade can just stun you and kite until they can safely cloak

If your opponent can't kill you in 15s of you being left without cloak, it's totally on your opponent.

Cost of revealing skill is higher because it completely shuts down cloak for the entire duration (+ duration of reveal), not just once. If the cost would be too low people would be able to run around spamming it casually, instead of having awareness and using it when you noticed NB.

xPoisin

My question is why the cloak does not have a cooldown ?
I am using pots but you cannot fight enemy (enemies mostly) and watch around for sneaky night lade that is only waiting to finish target that left…
I do not want to run broken MalcolM’s cyro angler build…
As I said, I like to fight NBs brawlers because they are tough and quick, but those ganking builds and mostly the players that are ganking the rest of players after fight is wrong…

Sorcs have timeout or increased cost on streak, DKs and templars and also all other classes have CC or stun imunity, so nightblade should have at least the same setup for cloak as sorcs for streak…

Dekrypted

divnyi wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

Being forced to use a potion when a nightblade can just stun you and kite until they can safely cloak

If your opponent can't kill you in 15s of you being left without cloak, it's totally on your opponent.

Cost of revealing skill is higher because it completely shuts down cloak for the entire duration (+ duration of reveal), not just once. If the cost would be too low people would be able to run around spamming it casually, instead of having awareness and using it when you noticed NB.

What you're saying does not excuse the disparity in cost. You're saying that if the cost is too low, people would spam reveal skills, but at the same time, Nightblades cloak is too low because they're spamming it all the time. It cost more to reveal a nightblade than a nightblade using cloak comparing an escape skill like Streak. There is no reason for a nb to be just perma cloaking in the fight just like there is no reason for a sorc to be perma streaking in a fight. Sorcs can streak for days depending on how they build, but there is atleast some sort of cost increase attached to that.

Why have a healing morph for cloak when one is so grossly overpowered with its guaranteed crit and denial of heavy attacks for sustain and overall disruption of combat for the opponent? It's basically a war of attrition and all I'm proposing with a ramping cost increase that matches streak. Increase the cost of cloak to the same as reveal or lower the cost of reveal.

IF as a nightblade, you cant fight without relying on cloak, that's totally on you.

xylena_lazarow

Is infinite NB cloak spam really worse than infinite Templar heal spam or whatever? There are so many abilities being spammed indefinitely when they really shouldn't be. Sustain is a joke. If anything at this point I kinda wish my stamsorc could spam infinite Streak just to match the rest of the broken stuff.

aurelius_fx

Dekrypted wrote: »

snip

you can COMPLETELY negate the usage of cloak with

-multiple dedicated skills dedicated SOLELY to completely nullify stealth that includes passive benefits
-literally any AoE including spammables, executes and class burst skills
-potions with also other benefits

which one of those can negate the use of streak, again? Suppression Field? "bro just use medium armor/wild hunt/2 sources of expedition, any build can afford that!"

boy, if you think that's difficult just wait til you meet a nightblade who can properly use shade teleporting

xPoisin

aurelius_fx wrote: »

[snip]

this sounds like a NB that is using cloak as major skill
10 mins ago we made a match in BGs where 2 nightblades were cloaking in 6 AoEs between three DKs spamming volatile armor and breathing fire and poison and NBs just cloak through…

[edited to remove quote]

Vevvev

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

IF you are playing a MagDK and are having difficulties with Nightblades may I politely suggest its not the Nightblades fault.

^ This

Nightblades are delicious, OP, have you tried using Engulfing Flames, Inner Light, Enhale, Eruption, or any other direct damage AoE attack/Reveal ability yet?

I'd recommend building 27-32+k HP, 20% and higher resistances, and changing out Leap for Dawnbreaker in Imperial City and Battlegrounds. In Cyrodiil Leap works just fine once you get it to cast, and there is a method to get Leap working in the Imperial City but I find it too much of a hassle with the zone changing required.

daim

How about we have it so that everyone has only the same skills and passives available in pvp to make it fair. Oh and that no one wears any armour and use the same weapons. When everyone have the exact same skills and the same stats theres finally no need for nerf threads.

xPoisin

Vevvev wrote: »

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

Nightblades are delicious, OP, have you tried using Engulfing Flames, Inner Light, Enhale, Eruption, or any other direct damage AoE attack/Reveal ability yet?

I'd recommend building 27-32+k HP, 20% and higher resistances, and changing out Leap for Dawnbreaker in Imperial City and Battlegrounds. In Cyrodiil Leap works just fine once you get it to cast, and there is a method to get Leap working in the Imperial City but I find it too much of a hassle with the zone changing required.

For my DKs I use most of the listed, got 32-34k health… the same on other classes and toons…

The issue is that people playin NBs are mostly sneakers that attacks only targets that are clear kill, so when I left alone and two or three NBs are tryin finish, they never fight each other after killing me, they just cloak away…

noobfury

I wish cloak had a longer duration

Dojohoda

noobfury wrote: »

I wish cloak had a longer duration

It used to be 4 seconds. It's been nerfed many times.

Theignson

A good NB with shade/cloak can be extremely hard to kill. But otherwise they are usually squishy.

But if you are forcing a NB to cloak a lot in your fights, then you aren't losing that fight. When NB cloaks, eg, you get resources, or you can block and mitigate the stun from cloak.

If you are 30k or above NB should not be able to gank you, if you are 35k it is even harder.

Zoal makes it almost impossible to be ganked

NB is fine

Elrond87

doesn't Radiant Magelight stop stun while slotted from sneak, or activating it reveal them and stop them going cloak

Kaysha

you should have at minimum one revealing spell on your bars anyway. Use them.

magelight
camouflaged hunter
revealing flare

Normally you have one of those skills on your bar just for the passiv effect. The detection potion is only used when you really want to hunt a NB.
Other than that, just don´t be stupid. Don´t stand around watching at the map or in your inventory while your out in the open.
Don´t run in straight lines.
Always move.
Have more than 20k health and 20k resist...

Doing all this will reduce your deaths vs NBs by 80%.

Kaysha

also dodge right after break free. Now you´re at 90% less deaths vs NBs.

Kaysha

and don´t run divines. impen still has it´s use.

Running divines means your accept to be a glass canon and you accept to die fast.