Green - is it better to be either DC & AD because they join up against EP?

daemondamian

I'm trying to get my main EP character to GO for the title, achievement related furnishings & skill points.

So far has been alright - occasionally I join groups, I repair stuff complete quests & I also get the delve buff & torte alliance skill line buffs almost up to lvl 8.

Sometimes there is either nothing to repair or very little EP on to take on other factions so I'm reduced to the scouting missions & resource capture (which is easy if I don't get taken out by a player or players after taking out the npcs)

Today I learned that DC & AD join forces (hence green), so is it better to be one of those factions or do two factions group on a third faction randomly - ie EP
& AD against DC or EP & DC against AD??

Minnesinger

You did not mention which platform/ campaign you are planning to play on. The situation is usually floating and there is nothing wrong to form a pact with an enemy to break it at the best moment.

Minnesinger

Wait a second you are going to repair and do quests to get GO (AR 49 - 60,838,400 AP). That plan is doomed from the beginnging. Easiest way is to join a faction that plays on your time frame. Pvdoor the map with an occassional pvp. If you are good at pvp you can solo fight to your title but that requires a bit more than what you are instigating.

EdmondDontes

On PC NA there is a great deal of coordination between AD and DC. That's why the green team accusation. It's more than an accusation though. There is a guild on AD and another on DC that go as far as to share a discord and they hop back and forth between raids for coordinating. From 8 am to about 11am eastern, and probably other times too, Team ADC is rampant. They do not fight each other. During this time frame every day, not as obviously on the weekends, but every day during this time frame you can see how obvious this cooperation and coordination is just by watching the map. For 3 or so hours every day there will be essentially no crossed swords between yellow and blue. AD and DC will only fight if one has the others scrolls, and maybe not even then.

WaywardArgonian

I don't know which platform you're on, but consider that literally on any campaign I played on whichever side, the faction I'm in is convinced that the other 2 are conspiring against them. While there is occasionally some truth to this, it's more often just a skewed perception that comes from either frustration or not understanding how the map works (e.g. if you have all scrolls and emp, both factions will target you hard).

BlakMarket

Whoever is first place or has Emp will usually get double teamed.

TechMaybeHic

Often when I get on and see a double team and look at why; I don't usually have to find coordination. It's usually focusing whoever is in first, has emp, or has extra scrolls. Or near the end of the campaign; it could be based on whoever's playing for second. Then quite often, it has to do with whoever was "asking for it.". Seemed 3 be quite a bit of double teaming AD due to how they had low pop bonus a lot last campaign. Then last night; DC was getting double teamed and I heard the night before DC was gate camping.

I guess to say; it's entirely organic at prime time. No grand conspiracy. During the off hours; pops are low enough where maybe a few could control the factions but you can't get everyone to buy in at prime time

Cuddlypuff

Double teaming has always happened and it is typical cognitive bias in a 3-faction scenario. The only difference these days is people just don't want to defend while outnumbered these days, or just spectate from the roof/walls waiting to die. The same faction could have 4 people defending Glade/Arrius/Fare but 15 minutes later 30+ turn up to pvdoor it back. Lack of any meaningful defense further encourages the double team since everything will be pvdoor until you gate that faction.

The reason why it seems worse now is probably just the meta shift that heavily favors tanking and healing. In Blackwood it was common for 1-2 bombers to wipe entire pvdoor raids, and the 100K+ defense ticks for doing so rewarded people for defending outnumbered. Lately on PC-NA it feels like over 90% of all keep takes are effectively pvdoors which makes for incredibly boring gameplay.

adirondack

It’s not easy being green

Necrotech_Master

based on my experience playing from the AD side, it feels like we get team purpled quite a lot, so i dont think the 2 factions "ganging up" on the other faction is specific to any of the 3 factions

what i think usually happens is faction 1 is the dominating strongest faction either player wise or population wise, faction 2 doesnt want to mess with them and both of those end up going after the weakest 3rd faction because the masses tend to prefer pvdoor

deleted221205-002626

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Double teaming has always happened and it is typical cognitive bias in a 3-faction scenario. The only difference these days is people just don't want to defend while outnumbered these days, or just spectate from the roof/walls waiting to die. The same faction could have 4 people defending Glade/Arrius/Fare but 15 minutes later 30+ turn up to pvdoor it back. Lack of any meaningful defense further encourages the double team since everything will be pvdoor until you gate that faction.

The reason why it seems worse now is probably just the meta shift that heavily favors tanking and healing. In Blackwood it was common for 1-2 bombers to wipe entire pvdoor raids, and the 100K+ defense ticks for doing so rewarded people for defending outnumbered. Lately on PC-NA it feels like over 90% of all keep takes are effectively pvdoors which makes for incredibly boring gameplay.

EXACTLY this is the problem now.. Its disgusting compared to how it was in the beginning.. We fought to the death.. sometimes 12hrs straight defending keeps and scrolls.. these guys now all claim to be experts and just bend over at the 1st sign of challenge and "tactically" plan to take it back like prostars =p.

Get rid of Zone channel too and we might have some actually useful coordination going on not ERP all day.

Cuddlypuff

sinnereso wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Double teaming has always happened and it is typical cognitive bias in a 3-faction scenario. The only difference these days is people just don't want to defend while outnumbered these days, or just spectate from the roof/walls waiting to die. The same faction could have 4 people defending Glade/Arrius/Fare but 15 minutes later 30+ turn up to pvdoor it back. Lack of any meaningful defense further encourages the double team since everything will be pvdoor until you gate that faction.

The reason why it seems worse now is probably just the meta shift that heavily favors tanking and healing. In Blackwood it was common for 1-2 bombers to wipe entire pvdoor raids, and the 100K+ defense ticks for doing so rewarded people for defending outnumbered. Lately on PC-NA it feels like over 90% of all keep takes are effectively pvdoors which makes for incredibly boring gameplay.

EXACTLY this is the problem now.. Its disgusting compared to how it was in the beginning.. We fought to the death.. sometimes 12hrs straight defending keeps and scrolls.. these guys now all claim to be experts and just bend over at the 1st sign of challenge and "tactically" plan to take it back like prostars =p.

Get rid of Zone channel too and we might have some actually useful coordination going on not ERP all day.

The art of defending is well and truly gone. There's even specialized pvdoor guilds out there boasting about 100k ap/hr to justify their playstyle. If only they knew of the good old days (even 1 year ago) when the map was active and you could often collect 200-300k ap/hr of defense ticks during the process of getting gated. One time during MYM we got a 200k ap bomb on Dragonclaw FD, followed by a 400k d-tick, followed by another 250k ap on the ID bomb + tick all in the space of 3 minutes. Been trying to chase that high ever since lol

On the subject of long keep fights, they are nice and all but for the love of god a fast push out and FD wipe for 20k ap is so much cleaner than turtling for 1 hr, losing every other keep you own and only getting a 5k tick because of downgraded rss.

FantasticFreddie

I play all 3 factions, and somehow I always manage to be on the one that is currently being "bullied" by the other two.
Actual, intentional, cross faction cooperation is rare to the point it barely exists.

VaranisArano

Look, when my faction ends up at the same objective as another faction, it's because we're smart tactically-minded players who can read the map and go for the most important objective at this time.

When the other teams show up on our front door at the same time, it's because they're stinking Team Green/Orange/Purple ganging up on us!


(I'm EP.)

xylena_lazarow

In tri faction PvP what "should" happen is that 2nd and 3rd gang up on 1st place until the score is even again, but when players get the same "rewards" for ganging up on the weakest faction instead...

daemondamian

Thanks for all the replies. I'm on the PC NA server , EP on my main magsorc character (I have 2 other EP char, 1 DC char and 9 AD - all on Blackreach).

I don't remember what time I was on but I directly experienced targeting from AD & DC together on multiple occassions & they seemed to be coordinating with each other.

Either AD had most of the map or it was AD & DC having most of the map.

I always try to join groups either actually joining them or just following around.

When there's no group or the map is dominated by other factions & has very little EP players making taking resources or keeps impossible or unlikely then I just do scouting missions & repairs if possible as they are a guaranteed AP source & skill level line up (albeit yes a very slow method) versus repeatedly being ganked after taking a resource or crushed trying to take keeps against overwhelming enemy numbers.


I have gone from insta dying but success at cyro pvp seems to be a combination of how many players you're against, that are with you & their skill level/build & luck. Sometimes I can take multiple resources without being challenged by an enemy faction.

It seems more enemy players or just 1 or 2 good enemy players matters when you're solo but if you outnumber your opponent/s & have some good players with you than you fare better especially if it's against a dk or other healthy tank build or ganker build.

I play at odd times as I'm in Australia. My ping is also normally 275-300. I know there are very good PVP players with the same ping but for me the delay seems to make a huge difference in getting skills to hit at the right time or being able to avoid getting hit by other players.

There are very few lag/high ping builds detailed online but I'm currently rebuilding my magsorc to try something that might work better due to the new update 33.

Depending on how that goes I might just convert him to a stamsorc (on his pvp armory slot) seeing as stambuilds seem to be better & harder to defeat especially in 1v1 though dizzy swing isn't a viable option for me with the lag.

dvonpm

daemondamian wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. I'm on the PC NA server , EP on my main magsorc character (I have 2 other EP char, 1 DC char and 9 AD - all on Blackreach).

I don't remember what time I was on but I directly experienced targeting from AD & DC together on multiple occassions & they seemed to be coordinating with each other.

Either AD had most of the map or it was AD & DC having most of the map.

Come to Grey Host. EP and DC purple AD literally every night no matter what the score looks like. It's like clockwork. They even siege Fare from the same sides at the same time lol. It starts right after dinner time Eastern, though sometimes it doesn't happen until later if AD is able to fend them off for a while.

So if EP gets Fare you can rep a door and 2 walls if you are fast enough

It happens to the other 2 factions at other times I'm sure, I'm just not on to see it usually. But the daily dinnertime purpling is basically a scheduled event at this point.

Necrotech_Master

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

In tri faction PvP what "should" happen is that 2nd and 3rd gang up on 1st place until the score is even again, but when players get the same "rewards" for ganging up on the weakest faction instead...

i would probably argue they get slightly better rewards, more kills + keep captures = better AP/hour rate

stalemates and losing keeps gets you nothing, so if anything it actually rewards the highest pop faction (until they control the entire map)

Silversmith

AD has low pop bonus a lot. Go AD.

Kordai

You mean like how ad and ep haven't fought each other for the better part of 2 hours now?

Tiphis

Kordai wrote: »

You mean like how ad and ep haven't fought each other for the better part of 2 hours now?

Think everybody just dislikes dc, can't say I blame them.

VaranisArano

Kordai wrote: »

You mean like how ad and ep haven't fought each other for the better part of 2 hours now?

Won't someone think of Alessia Bridge? It's getting lonely...

xylena_lazarow

Kordai wrote: »

You mean like how ad and ep haven't fought each other for the better part of 2 hours now?

It's strategically correct for AD and EP to avoid each other and focus on 1st place DC.

GlorphNoldorin

"I don't remember what time I was on but I directly experienced targeting from AD & DC together on multiple occassions & they seemed to be coordinating with each other.

Either AD had most of the map or it was AD & DC having most of the map.

I play at odd times as I'm in Australia. My ping is also normally 275-300. I know there are very good PVP players with the same ping but for me the delay seems to make a huge difference in getting skills to hit at the right time or being able to avoid getting hit by other players. "

I also play on PC NA- DC and from rural Australia with ping 300-350. I can attest that at the times I play, there is hardly any cohesion in the way DC organizes their gameplay. It has been a long standing complaint for zone chat at how disorganized and few people are on in Oceanic peak times and other parts of the day. There have been few active guilds over the years at these times. For moths at a time I would log on and EP would gate DC, own the map and have twice the players (often just a full 20+ player raid and be only 5 or so DC running around)

At other times, AD would dominate as guild swapped factions, left or new ones formed. And it seems at this time there are some greater numbers on DC dominating off peak. It is the ebb and flow of cyrodil.

It is surely difficult to be competitive on our Oceanic ping, no doubt. I know of some very good players with high ping. It does seem to me that 300 ping isn't always 300 ping, at times the game can be playable but others not and ping often doesnt change much.

Fighting good players who have 100 ping or less...... I dont know if these players realize how disadvantaged oceanic players are........ we can look silly fighting them but if we want to play pvp in ESO its the game.

Drdeath20

It’s simple map geography. EP either has the advantage or disadvantage of the way it’s laid out.

dvonpm

Silversmith wrote: »

AD has low pop bonus a lot. Go AD.

We hack it for the 2 seconds it exists because we cheat to lose like pros!

Kordai

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Kordai wrote: »

You mean like how ad and ep haven't fought each other for the better part of 2 hours now?

It's strategically correct for AD and EP to avoid each other and focus on 1st place DC.

I mean the alessia bridge is down about half the time and that's how it remains for a few hours. Usually about a 3-4 hour window where ep and ad don't even take a resource of each other's. It's been 1 hour now so we'll see.

8:30est EP defending ales and bleaks, ad zerged ash.

830-9am ADvEP:1 ad took ep's drake mine, ep then took it back, 1 ad went harluns and died to ep. AD/EP v DC: ad flagged rayles, defended ash, ep defending against dc at bruma, wp, ales, brk, bleaks

Minnesinger

Kordai wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Kordai wrote: »

You mean like how ad and ep haven't fought each other for the better part of 2 hours now?

It's strategically correct for AD and EP to avoid each other and focus on 1st place DC.

I mean the alessia bridge is down about half the time and that's how it remains for a few hours. Usually about a 3-4 hour window where ep and ad don't even take a resource of each other's. It's been 1 hour now so we'll see.

8:30est EP defending ales and bleaks, ad zerged ash.

830-9am ADvEP:1 ad took ep's drake mine, ep then took it back, 1 ad went harluns and died to ep. AD/EP v DC: ad flagged rayles, defended ash, ep defending against dc at bruma, wp, ales, brk, bleaks

xylena_lazarow wrote: » » show previous quotes
It's strategically correct for AD and EP to avoid each other and focus on 1st place DC.

Kordai

Minnesinger wrote: »

Kordai wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Kordai wrote: »

You mean like how ad and ep haven't fought each other for the better part of 2 hours now?

It's strategically correct for AD and EP to avoid each other and focus on 1st place DC.

I mean the alessia bridge is down about half the time and that's how it remains for a few hours. Usually about a 3-4 hour window where ep and ad don't even take a resource of each other's. It's been 1 hour now so we'll see.

8:30est EP defending ales and bleaks, ad zerged ash.

830-9am ADvEP:1 ad took ep's drake mine, ep then took it back, 1 ad went harluns and died to ep. AD/EP v DC: ad flagged rayles, defended ash, ep defending against dc at bruma, wp, ales, brk, bleaks

xylena_lazarow wrote: » » show previous quotes
It's strategically correct for AD and EP to avoid each other and focus on 1st place DC.

... Except that when ad is in first it doesn't happen, nor does it happen when ep is in first. So clearly you're wrong.

Minnesinger

Kordai wrote: »

Minnesinger wrote: »

Kordai wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Kordai wrote: »

You mean like how ad and ep haven't fought each other for the better part of 2 hours now?

It's strategically correct for AD and EP to avoid each other and focus on 1st place DC.

I mean the alessia bridge is down about half the time and that's how it remains for a few hours. Usually about a 3-4 hour window where ep and ad don't even take a resource of each other's. It's been 1 hour now so we'll see.

8:30est EP defending ales and bleaks, ad zerged ash.

830-9am ADvEP:1 ad took ep's drake mine, ep then took it back, 1 ad went harluns and died to ep. AD/EP v DC: ad flagged rayles, defended ash, ep defending against dc at bruma, wp, ales, brk, bleaks

xylena_lazarow wrote: » » show previous quotes
It's strategically correct for AD and EP to avoid each other and focus on 1st place DC.

... Except that when ad is in first it doesn't happen, nor does it happen when ep is in first. So clearly you're wrong.

Wrong! It does happen but not so much when both EP and AD are thousands behind DC. It is just good strategy to give a good kick in the DC nuts when they have gotten so clear lead.

Minnesinger

As a side note, the arrogance of DC has become quite annoying. They already had ownership of a keep named something like "Bye Losers DC is winning". And think of it, this was just after a couple of days into the new campaign. To me, DC do deserve every bit of hardship.