Account Wide Achievements: What's the impact?

FlopsyPrince

I had no concerns about "character customization" but losing dungeon quests and skillpoints for those, along with skyshard tracking is horrible.

How could this have not been thought of?

silvereyes

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

DigiAngel wrote: »

So.....as someone who could really care less about achievements (thinking like...Steam ones), what's the impact here? What's the benefit of having achievements? What's "lost" with this update? Thanks for any answers.

I for one would love Steam achievements and now that we have AwA there's no reason that we can't have Steam achievements.

AwA has no bearing on whether platform (e.g. Steam) achievements are possible. PlayStation has had Trophies that work similar to Steam Achievements for some time, even with character-specific achievement tracking inside the game.

ESO's AwA also has separate achievements tracked for NA and EU. They would be more appropriately called "Server-wide Achievements". If they could trigger a Steam Achievement update per-server now, they could trigger it per-character before.

Jaraal

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

I know it’s way, way too late now but is there a reason ZOS didn’t do like they did with level scaling with One Tamriel - that is to say start out with one relatively isolated area, implement it only there until the bugs were worked out and the implementation was solid before gradually phasing it in elsewhere?

Yes, it’s the “aggressive development schedule” they’ve talked about before. They have deadlines to get new content out quarterly, and that’s their prime focus. They have to have stuff ready to sell us. Fixing bugs is not profitable, so those usually get pushed to the back burner on a consistent basis.

xXSilverDragonXx

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I had no concerns about "character customization" but losing dungeon quests and skillpoints for those, along with skyshard tracking is horrible.

How could this have not been thought of?

For dungeon quest, for now I would recommend Ulrich's skill point finder. Mine appears to be accurate now. In fact, when I logged I wanted to get some skill points on one of my alts. Not realizing the update borked shards, I spend over an hour trying to figure out why she had no shards in places that the point finder said she was missing them. It's useful for things like public delves group boss and dungeons as it will show you if you earned that point on that toon. But with skyshards, it can only say how many you have gotten out of how many there are, so you have no clue which you got on that toon. But it at least helps with the dungeons.

silvereyes

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

Well, I cannot collect skyshards because they are linked to achievements. And so, toons that don't have ones have maps reading collected. And there's no way I am going to go into all these places to try to guess if it was collected by them or not.

You can. The shards are still there. You just can't use achievements to track them anymore.

The zone guide and map completion tell you which are missing, still. Base game map icons still show uncollected vs. collected shards. Certain addons haven't been updated, so if you are using them (Skyshards, Map Pins), they will break map icons.

xXSilverDragonXx

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

I know it’s way, way too late now but is there a reason ZOS didn’t do like they did with level scaling with One Tamriel - that is to say start out with one relatively isolated area, implement it only there until the bugs were worked out and the implementation was solid before gradually phasing it in elsewhere?

Converting EVERY zone back then would have been a massive and time consuming process with lots of manpower. IE MONEY. I don't think achievements being linked to account rather than toon was timeconsuming at all. In fact, the time consuming part would be to make sure things like skyshards remain accurate because it would be idiotic to have them seem like they were collected on new toons, right? Someone with a working brain could comprehend that this should not be 'account wide' right? And of course, to implement that properly would probably take time. And cost money. Thus, they do not take the time because it costs money.

newtinmpls

I walked near a delve and instantly "completed it" (it wasn't up) walked closer and then "discovered it"

Things are a bit whacked

xXSilverDragonXx

error

Saieden

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

I know it’s way, way too late now but is there a reason ZOS didn’t do like they did with level scaling with One Tamriel - that is to say start out with one relatively isolated area, implement it only there until the bugs were worked out and the implementation was solid before gradually phasing it in elsewhere?

Converting EVERY zone back then would have been a massive and time consuming process with lots of manpower. IE MONEY. I don't think achievements being linked to account rather than toon was timeconsuming at all. In fact, the time consuming part would be to make sure things like skyshards remain accurate because it would be idiotic to have them seem like they were collected on new toons, right? Someone with a working brain could comprehend that this should not be 'account wide' right? And of course, to implement that properly would probably take time. And cost money. Thus, they do not take the time because it costs money.

This is what I and many others said from week one pts: The implementation of AWA is a messy hack job, can't possibly be fixed before going live, and will cause irreversible damage to both game itself and player sentiment.

Now that it has gone live, the work (money) to fix it, by which I mean rebuild the entire thing ground up AND compensate players for loss of progress, will be several orders of magnitude greater than pulling it from the start.

alberichtano

newtinmpls wrote: »

I walked near a delve and instantly "completed it" (it wasn't up) walked closer and then "discovered it"

Things are a bit whacked

Understatement of the year.

Saieden

Despite the 90+ pages of feedback, and pretty much everything I and others warned about becoming reality, I still managed to vastly underestimate the amount of popcorn I would need for this launch.

SammyKhajit

alberichtano wrote: »

SammyKhajit wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

kaisernick wrote: »

so if my character hasnt done the main quest (aka the soulburst) do characters like Tharn Liris still recognise me due to the schivements?

I checked a quest in Summerset during PTS and the NPC recognized my non-Thief/Dark Brotherhood character as a Thief/Dark Brotherhood character.

This is very worrying. Sammy has a few upstanding characters with no affiliation with the Thieves Guild or the Dark Brotherhood.

This one should log in to check, but am too scared.

I hear ya. I have been weighing all day if I dare to, or even want to log in. I am losing dailies and whatnot, but then, what is the point of doing dailies any more? I feel so disheartened.

This one symbolically offers you his paw (and anyone else who needs paw holding) to hold as emotional support during the login.

xXSilverDragonXx

Saieden wrote: »

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

I know it’s way, way too late now but is there a reason ZOS didn’t do like they did with level scaling with One Tamriel - that is to say start out with one relatively isolated area, implement it only there until the bugs were worked out and the implementation was solid before gradually phasing it in elsewhere?

Converting EVERY zone back then would have been a massive and time consuming process with lots of manpower. IE MONEY. I don't think achievements being linked to account rather than toon was timeconsuming at all. In fact, the time consuming part would be to make sure things like skyshards remain accurate because it would be idiotic to have them seem like they were collected on new toons, right? Someone with a working brain could comprehend that this should not be 'account wide' right? And of course, to implement that properly would probably take time. And cost money. Thus, they do not take the time because it costs money.

This is what I and many others said from week one pts: The implementation of AWA is a messy hack job, can't possibly be fixed before going live, and will cause irreversible damage to both game itself and player sentiment.

Now that it has gone live, the work (money) to fix it, by which I mean rebuild the entire thing ground up AND compensate players for loss of progress, will be several orders of magnitude greater than pulling it from the start.

Which nearly guarantees they won't fix it. Problem solved. AWA is here to stay, I'm sure of that. Maybe addons can fix sone of the issues like skyshard hunting. But I remember years ago people upset about different things on the PTS, massive threads on those things and nothing got changed.

It's really sad how you can learn to get used to QOL improvements that make the game less enjoyable. Though I usually only play for a few months every few years these days.

ArchangelIsraphel

Saieden wrote: »

Despite the 90+ pages of feedback, and pretty much everything I and others warned about becoming reality, I still managed to vastly underestimate the amount of popcorn I would need for this launch.

We tried to tell them. We really did. At this point I think I'm salting my popcorn with my own tears while watching a train wreck. God knows I've accumulated enough salt over the past month to supply an entire circus with popcorn for years xD

Sarcasm aside, it's both validating and painful to watch the slow trickle of people who thought this was going to be fine and told us it wouldn't be a big deal finally realize what an absolute mess we're left in. I genuinely feel bad for them because for them, the grieving process is only beginning while many of us had already prepaired in some way for the shock.

I can only imagine what those who never knew who cared about achievements and character identity are feeling right now as they log in to discover what's become of their account.

Ragnork

Apparently my Saviour of Nirn (well technically all my alts are now Saviour but not the point) - my Nord Stam Templar who has taken every dolmen everywhere has not found the dolmens in Eastmarch or the Rift.
One of my newer alts has completed a random delve in Greenshade, one delve all by itself in the south of the zone. No wayshrines.
When he did enter a delve, that he has not been in before, it showed completed and acted as if he had already completed the delve (i.e. no well done for killing that horrible thing text)
It is not just Skyshards that are messed up.

Grizzbeorn

Edgemoor wrote: »

kringled_1 wrote: »

I think the xp awards have been removed from dlc dungeon slayer achievements. Got a couple while going through logins just cumulatively, but my xp has not budged.

Just completed a delve on a new character and it was missing the XP from the completion achievement. Not sure how much XP that is going to loose overall.

Oliviander

The impact is:

After 8 great years ESO is dead

at least for my wallet

and as I can read for many others wallets too

I won't support people with such ignorance for their customers

never

I actually had some faith in them left - despite of the many problems ESO
left unresolved. Baut now any remaining faith got completely shattered.
And now I am feeling like an idiot giving them that many bucks over the years.
My 7 Radiant Apex Mounts are having an evil grin at me.

Jaraal

Yeah it's not looking good so far.

https://steamcharts.com/app/306130

alberichtano

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah it's not looking good so far.

https://steamcharts.com/app/306130

Ouch! But it may be too soon to tell from the charts yet.

The_Boggart

Precursor quest was not fixed,
Achievement has blue top line, but all items showing as collected I don't want to play 'hunt the thimble' thru 10 delves to find the missing part

schindler

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

Well, I cannot collect skyshards because they are linked to achievements. And so, toons that don't have ones have maps reading collected. And there's no way I am going to go into all these places to try to guess if it was collected by them or not.

This is a deal breaker for me. Shards are essential. If you cannot track them, then why bother? They are time consuming to get, but they give you those extra skill points. That they didn't even test this enough to avoid this problem is baffling.

Does the crown store think you've collected them too? Would that be a way to at least figure out how many skyshards you're missing per zone?

Jaraal

alberichtano wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah it's not looking good so far.

https://steamcharts.com/app/306130

Ouch! But it may be too soon to tell from the charts yet.

A week ago the 30 day drop was at -800.

Time will tell.

SerafinaWaterstar

It would help get the point of how damn awful AWA is if everyone who has posted an issue here also puts in a bug report in game.

Ignoring the forums is easy for them; perhaps not so easy to ignore bug reports? Surely worth a try - they must at least have to report back on bug reporting numbers?

Hurbster

I am already looking forward to the 'carefully crafted by the PR department' post we will be getting soon. In the meantime I'm not even going to bother logging my alts, I'm in favour of AwA but when 90+ pages of warnings from the people who do the FREE bug-testing on the PTS get ignored, I just get horrible flashbacks of another company that rhymes with 'wizzard' also ignoring the people who did FREE bug-testing for years. And that ended well, didn't it?

Jaraal

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

It would help get the point of how damn awful AWA is if everyone who has posted an issue here also puts in a bug report in game.

Ignoring the forums is easy for them; perhaps not so easy to ignore bug reports? Surely worth a try - they must at least have to report back on bug reporting numbers?

It's a nice thought, and I totally understand it. But our individual character data is destroyed forever, there's no turning back now. They decided months ago that this was the direction they wanted to go with the game, and no amount of bug reports is going to undo the damage. Besides that, these bugs were reported weeks ago when the PTS dropped, and they chose to ignore them then.... so it stands to reason that they would ignore them now as well.

Also, I would hate to see legitimate concerns that keep people from being able to log in and whatnot buried under a backlog of reports. And we shouldn't punish devs who have no say in the matter and would have to sift through all the reports because of a management decision.

SerafinaWaterstar

[snip]

So I suggest trying another way. And these are not spurious reports, they illustrate that the game is not working. They must have to report monthly on number of reports & number sorted, surely? This might bring it to the fore. Worth a try.

[snip]

[edited for bashing]

alberichtano

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

@Jaraal
Whilst I understand your point, my anger at their intransigent incompetence & utter hubris & appalling treatment of paying customers wants a response.

They did not listen to over 91 pages of sensible reasoned feedback on the pts thread. These were not ‘we dont like it posts’, but detailed well-written ones explaining clearly the impact, unforeseen or otherwise, this AWA implementation had on the game.

These were ignored.

So I suggest trying another way. And these are not spurious reports, they illustrate that the game is not working. They must have to report monthly on number of reports & number sorted, surely? This might bring it to the fore. Worth a try.

The other option is Social Media or streamers (sorry ‘content creators’ 🤨) but they all seem desperate to stay in Zos’ good books that none will dare dissent.

Well, as a cynic, I would say that money talks. Bug reports won't affect the decision makers, only the ones doing the daily work. It is our wallets that are our most powerful tools.

SerafinaWaterstar

Bug reports would be a measureable KPI, surely? And if there was an increase, there would be repercussions.(Unless this is unlike any other company).

But also withholding dosh is good, of course.😉

Edgemoor

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

@Jaraal
Whilst I understand your point, my anger at their intransigent incompetence & utter hubris & appalling treatment of paying customers wants a response.

They did not listen to over 91 pages of sensible reasoned feedback on the pts thread. These were not ‘we dont like it posts’, but detailed well-written ones explaining clearly the impact, unforeseen or otherwise, this AWA implementation had on the game.

These were ignored.

So I suggest trying another way. And these are not spurious reports, they illustrate that the game is not working. They must have to report monthly on number of reports & number sorted, surely? This might bring it to the fore. Worth a try.

The other option is Social Media or streamers (sorry ‘content creators’ 🤨) but they all seem desperate to stay in Zos’ good books that none will dare dissent.

AWA is a lot more complex than the approach ZOS have done, which is akin to using a shovel to harvest all the crops, instead of using the correct tool. This will definately cost them, it may even turn out to be a NGE level update (but I doubt it).

The casual crowd have a lot less to do now, so it depends on when they get bored and if they can find something else to do. The coming card game coming holds no interest, certainly at present. I want to adventure into delves and dungeons.

Coatmagic

As an altoholic, was happily surprised to see a mere 120pt difference from logging in my 'main' then logging in the 17 others.

My alts are now resigned to writ monkies/paper dolls -- but for me I suppose that's all they ever really were anyways.

Took em a long while to sort out the OneTam discrepancies, so here's to hoping they will get these sorted out as well.

Very sorry for all of those who had breathed life into multiple characters, here's to hoping some addon author out there can come up with a way to resurrect your families ((hugs)) to all that have lost