Calling 90k+ magblades, judge and critique my parse

OWLTHEMAD

Recently hit 82k, id like to get up to 90.

Current settup not meta, but still strong and i think is capable of getting me there,

If interested in gear ill elaborate, butfor now just looking for rotation advice

Using perfected masters staff so current settup, destructive reach is not optional

https://youtu.be/C-0toojg1Rg

MashmalloMan

Not a NB main, but for starters, swapping out that master staff will most likely get you more dps and save a bar slot for something else. The set is mainly for pvp and some builds for pve mag warden, but thats it.

Without seeing the combat metrix, it's hard to judge your uptime on light attacks and the frequency of them, that is usually a high inidcator of how you can improve your rotation just by practicing more.

If you were using Bahsei's Mania as your main trial set, you're missing a lot of the dps by starting out the fight at full magicka. You frequently had a lot of your mag pool, so if you are using that, you're missing out on a lot of the dps from it.

In regards to the rotation, I noticed some early casting of abilities like Reach and Wall of Elements while late casting on your ultimate. I suspect you're early casting Reach to get the set effect on something like Merciless Resolve.. but is wasting a GCD and the 4-6 seconds of the dot worth the abysmal 400 damage? In my opinion, no. Since your main ultimate is a very low cost, every second you don't cast it, you're wasting a lot of time on future casts you could of done throughout the parse so try to focus on casting that any time it's available instead of setting up burst by preparing a bunch of skills. It's a good mentality to have, but you may be taking it a bit too far.

I understand you most likely want to get your dots up first, but it's not always worth 6 GCDs which is effectively 18 ultimate or 25% of another ultimate you could of casted. It adds up over time. If you rewatch, you'll see what I mean, there are many points where you had 100+ ult instead of casting at 70, close to half way to another cast.

Pretty hard rotation imo. Maybe you'd find it easier to manage a longer lasting ultimate with a high cost like Meteor? Low cost ults are nice for sustain though and Soul Harvest gets ultimate return in real content incredibly quick, so this may just be a dummy parse issue. Speaking of, I just noticed you're using incap, for a dummy, you're obviously going to get more out of it from the 100 mag return every light attack, but I'd highly suggest switching to Soul Harvest for real content. Sustain like 100 mag return on front bar is pretty redundant in actual content when you could be casting more ultimates due to all the ads that will end up feeding that ability. In some fights, you can basically have it up 100% of the time on a target.

In execute, it took you until 19-20% before you realised to switch to Impale, cleaning up your timing here will net you more DPS. When you reach execute, you should start dropping more skills. This is partially an issue due to using a Masters Staff, but even with a Masters Staff, I question the DPS you get from Reach + the set effect out does the DPS you get from an only 1 Impale cast. Maybe up for debate, but one things for sure, you wouldn't run into this problem by not using the set at all. Secondly, you ended up casting Reach early before it expired 4/10s. Just an example of the early casting mentioned above.

Skill comparisons.

Base values (esosets.com):

• Impale = 1161 magic damage x 4 at -25% hp. Total = 4644 damage.
• Destructive Reach = 1161 fire damage + 2315 fire damage over 10s. Total = 3476 damage. I'd say don't cast it because although the set effect may cover the difference of about 25% lower damage vs Impale, it's over 10 seconds and you may kill your target before this ever finishes.. at least in real content. Up to you to find out if you plan to keep using this set. There is the fact that it's amplified by fire damage bonuses like DK's 10% and Encratis for 5%.
• Merciless Resolve = 4752 Magic Damage - Don't fire off. The damage is too similar and it's better to keep the 300 spell damage active for impale. It seems you realised this after you started casting Impale around 20%.
• Twisting Path = 612 Magic Damage each second over 12s. Note, you usually cast this early with Wall so it's probably best to consider it 10s. 612 * 10 = 6120. - I'd say keep it active if you know the full duration will be used.
• Wall.. no debate, keep it up for VMA Set Effect and Infused Enchant, but okay to drop if theres like 5 GCD's left like the way you did it.
• Entropy = 3480 Magic Damage over 10 seconds and 3s of empower. 4,176 if it lasts to 12s. * Don't cast, the 3s of empower most likely isn't outpacing the damage difference especially since you're probably casting it every 10s to line up with Wall.
• Barbed Trap = 1161 Bleed Damage + 2778 Bleed Damage over 18 seconds. +10% damage passive = 1277 + 3056 = 4333. The minor force makes this a must cast if you know the full 18s will be used, but if you think you're only going to get about half the duration or less out of it, I'd say to drop it.
• Shade = 830 Magic Damage every 2 seconds over 20s. When it's summoned, it doesn't attack at 0s I think, so that is 10 ticks for 8300 damage. Definitely cast it if you can get at least 60% of the duration.

So with that in mind, rewatch what you did in execute to study how you could improve. You casted Reach early and Barbed Trap with the dummy being at about 2% HP. Could of just kept casting Impale and probably killed it a GCD early. Also, you let your Incap get to 120 ult at one point.

Lastly, with 37k magicka, I think you may have your 3 jewerly as Magicka instead of Bloodthirsty, change that over and you'll get a notable boost to dps. Pretty important for NBs seeing as they actually use execute damage and it performs better even on classes that don't use execute skills.

I would recommend including your combat metrix info for posts like this or at the bare minimum for console players, all the sets and traits you're using on your gear. A lot of guess work is going into this instead of providing more specific information that can help.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

These are really hard for me. I dont want to be the guy that says, play Meta of GTFO, but out of curiosity, have you played with a more traditional setup to see where you are at? I really dont know what the ceiling is going to be for that rotation/setup.

Comments:
-Squeezing Reach onto your bar means you probably need to play with funnel health as a spam so you have a siphoning ability for the Magicka Flood passive. Dont get me wrong, I play with funnel the vast majority of the time, but tradtional move to max DPS is to use Ele Weapon and front bar Cripling (Debilitate is the better morph) so you get the passive. It definitely moves the needle on the DPS.

-Reach i believe gives you a boost of 600 spell damage for 4 seconds. Looks like you are casting closer to 7 to 10 seconds between, so you are realistically probably only getting 200-300 spell damage from it, which compared to another 5 piece set or whatever else you are dropping to get there, may really not be all that much of an advantage (if any).

-Mageblades should be played dynamically whenever possible. In my experience, they tend to suffer much more with a static rotation compared to other classes. You are playing this pretty much static, and your casts between each spectral bow proc are again in the 7-10 range it seems. In other words, you are getting about half the DPS out of your Merciless resolve as you likely could. Your back bar ground DOTs are a mix of being over and under cast as well. I would error on the side of perfect uptime on your unstable wall, and let the others be over undercast as needed.

-There are definitely better ways to orchestrate your opening, but that is pretty minor. Opening with a destro is probably more DPS. You should get in the habit of precasting shades and laying down trap before you engage the dummy. Your DPS takes a while to build the way you are doing it. Some may call this cheese, but these types of things can be done very effectively on certain bosses. It will also move the needle on your parse.

-On that same notion, not sure your execute is optimal. Looks like you cast your bow at least once in the early parts of your execute, you want to hit execute with max stacks and dont touch it, even if the skill runs out (looks like you did that for the most part). Not sure if Skills like Degen or even your Reach are worth the cast once you hit execute. It also took you a few percent to switch gears and start using your impale. I think @MashmalloMan did a more thorough explanation above. Your execute is taking a while...

*TLDR, I get pretty darn spammy in execute on my NB. Impale, Incap, Trap and Wall is about all I cast. I usually try to get one full cast of Shade and Path, but I usually dont recast after about 20%. EDIT Keep in mind, I am mostly talking about actual bosses and not a dummy. I havent dummy parsed on NB in a little while, other than to warm up for raid. I would defer to skinny cheeks below on keeping up shade and path, as long as you get a full pull on them.

-Probably a minor thing, but when using your incap, be sure you are maximizing your spam skills (funnel or impale) for the 6 seconds follow this skill, especially in execute.

DPS is a game of inches in ESO. 3-4 minor things can be 8-10k DPS. Hard to see what your LA/per second are, looks like console, so guessing you dont have access. Two obvious benchmarks on NB are time between Bow Procs (usually like 6-7, considering you dont cast in execute, but in theory, its every 5th skill until then) and LA/sec. Should be north of .9 if you want to be in the 90-100k range.

OWLTHEMAD

Lots of nice advice here, but it seems some want to see the actual build so:

Breton

Theif

Perfected masters destro front precise

Maelstrom backbar back infused

4pc false gods divines body

5pc mothers sorrow, bloodthirsty jewelry divines body

Kilt. Divines

Back bar weapon/spell damage enchant

Front bar, fire enchant, though above parse was experimenting with double dot poisons. (Dont judge, will explain in a sec)

Fully buffed i sit at 80%crit and nearly 6k spell damage

So hear my logic and what led into this settup

Pugging for bahseis has been an absolute nighmare. So ive put that on back burner. Dont have transmutes for kinras so that comes down the line.

I have sirorias. The performance i got out of it never brought me above 72k. Even on melee settup only was hitting around 75. After much experimenting What did bring me above 72? Perfected Masters staff. Immediately after switching my dps jumped too a consistent 75 to 76k.

It occored to me that the automatic application of burning on the initial impact from reach meant that my flame enchant was a bit redundant. So i experimented with other options.

I had middling results from numerous other enchants that in my tests made virtually no difference.

Grasping at straws and having a surplus of crown deadly poisons that i use for pvp i decided to throw those up there. Holy cow immediately jumped to consistent 78k.

I know thats not supposed to work but it did. And i cant explain why. Ive tested going back on the possibility i simply improved my parse, but consistently got worse results without the poisons

I continued to experiment with different forms of the rotation and trying different things.

The above parse was my second foray into intentionally overcasting reach. Looking at the skill and considering both the masters staff and the burning dot, i realised most of its damage was front loaded into the first four seconds. So i started aiming for casting pretty much on entering and leaving the front bar.

This was a break through and finally pushed me into the 80s.

Ive since gotten as high as 83.9k.

Im currently practicing a more dynamic settup

I know i have lots of room for improvement and im still making buttloads of mistakes but the settup, though unconventional is working alot better than i thought it would on initial experimentation, and so im opting to continue with it for a time.

That being said lots of valuable insight here

Ive started casting my ultimate almost as soon as its up, making slight allowances to push towards haveing everything ready before its up without over doing it.

Im trying to be better at starting execute on time

Im still figuring out what dots to keep up in execute.

Reach and unstable wall is a given. Im thinking barbed trap is a necessity, however twisting and shade, while hard hitting dont have any fringe benefits, entropy on the other hand gives me 4 seconds of empower from mages guild passives and im wondering if that is enough to justify it in execute.

I know i could put out higher numbers on another race, but im going to keep breton. Its my main and his race wont ever change (though i have two other nightblades)

This settup is whats working for me at the moment, but im still open to other ideas so long as they are not related to bahseis. The only reason im not using it is because i cant get it right now. So advocating for it is a bit moot.

Beyond that i appreciate all the insight and am still open to more

OWLTHEMAD

@MashmalloMan

Little aside, im not sure why/how i have 37k magicka, could be the bloody mara or eyebowl ive been using, but still seems a bit high now that you mention it. Definitely running bloodthirsty though.

Ive only comeback to the game in the last couple months. Stopped playing before greymoore dropped. When i came back ALL my resources were higher and i havent fully understood where those changes came from yet.

MashmalloMan

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

@MashmalloMan

Little aside, im not sure why/how i have 37k magicka, could be the bloody mara or eyebowl ive been using, but still seems a bit high now that you mention it. Definitely running bloodthirsty though.

Ive only comeback to the game in the last couple months. Stopped playing before greymoore dropped. When i came back ALL my resources were higher and i havent fully understood where those changes came from yet.

CP 2.0 changes. We use to get 20% mag, stam and hp from having 100cp in blue, red and green trees or total 300cp +. This was removed to add power back into base characters and make CP less potent.

Base characters now get 10% mitigation, 1k weapon/spell damage, 7k hp and 4k stam/mag.

This places most players in pve at a bare minimum of 20k hp with race and CP without any food bonus.

When you were playing, we were at around 13-14k hp base so it was basically a requirement to get your hp to a minimum of 17k. This often meant using a health + resource food, usually health + resource + resource regen unless you were in a trial group that had a lot of sustain buffs.

Without the requirement of investment into health, you can now use what we use to call "parse food" as your regular food. So resource + resource regen and 0 health. With CP 2.0 and the new foods, we're able to get higher resources and resource regen despite the loss of the 20% to each pool.

I forgot on the trial dummy you get 10% mag from Warhorn, so your 37k is probably like 32-33k without it which is normal.

MashmalloMan

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Reach and unstable wall is a given. Im thinking barbed trap is a necessity, however twisting and shade, while hard hitting dont have any fringe benefits, entropy on the other hand gives me 4 seconds of empower from mages guild passives and im wondering if that is enough to justify it in execute.

The only questions you need to ask for what to cast in execute is:

1. Does 1 cast of a skill output more total damage than 1 cast of Impale.
2. Will a cast of said skill last the full duration to output that total damage or will I kill the enemy before it completes. At what point does that skill not become worth using?

• Unstable Wall is a given.
• Barbed Trap is close to a given, I'd say the way you handled it in the parse is what not to do. At 2% boss HP you casted it again. If you're only going to get 5-6 seconds of Barbed Trap it just isn't worth it and it's best to let it fall off.
• Shade is practically double the amount of damage of Impale, so yes it's worth the cast, but only if you're going to get at least 60% of the duration.
• Path is also much more damage than Impale, even if you're casting it early at 10s to line up with Wall. Again, not worth it if you're only going to get like 50% of it.
• Degen is not worth it imo. The damage doesn't outpace Impale even at 12s duration, but you're casting it at 10s. You're also casting it on your back bar where you have less damage stats. Empower is strong, but it's not enough to cover the difference.
• Reach, probably worth it for your build, but definitely not worth it when you can finally swap it out and use another set. When you do, using something like Debilitate as mentioned from the other commenter will allow you to choose another spammable that does more damage.

edit:

Think I was right. If you watch some high parses from SkinnyCheeks, Wall, Trap, Shade, and Path are still casted in execute, but Degen is dropped. Reach isn't used, but if it was used without the set, it'd be dropped too. Also, Incap/Soul Harvest is casted pretty much instantly, the parser never bothered setting up dots first besides maybe a barbed trap or wall cast. It's definitely best to fire off as soon as you can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb7GqFntCXs&ab_channel=SkinnyCheeks

OWLTHEMAD

Im pretty guilty of not keeping close track of the health bar. Been an issue for me since i started so i decinitely have to work on that.

Given the unique nature of the settup i guess the question then becomes your opinion on reach in execute.

Seems your leaning on not using it

But heres my, i dont want say arguement. Because im not biased in favor of it, but well say counterpoint.

In this settup, the burning dot comes almost exclusively from reach, +700 damage increase, + a significant portion of the poison proc chance, in my experience the poisons are proccing consistently on returning to front bar after cooldown but only when i cast reach, not nearly so much from light attacks alone.

Kind of feels like alot ya know? Makes me hesitant to drop it during execute

OWLTHEMAD

Also, can i just say thank you for taking the time to sit here and really look at this, no one in my circle really understands this stuff better than me so i havent really had anyone to bounce ideas off of and get good solid advice and criticism from. Getting to 80k has been almost entirely off my own experimentation and research up to this point.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

MashmalloMan wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Reach and unstable wall is a given. Im thinking barbed trap is a necessity, however twisting and shade, while hard hitting dont have any fringe benefits, entropy on the other hand gives me 4 seconds of empower from mages guild passives and im wondering if that is enough to justify it in execute.

The only questions you need to ask for what to cast in execute is:

1. Does 1 cast of a skill output more total damage than 1 cast of Impale.
2. Will a cast of said skill last the full duration to output that total damage or will I kill the enemy before it completes. At what point does that skill not become worth using?

• Unstable Wall is a given.
• Barbed Trap is close to a given, I'd say the way you handled it in the parse is what not to do. At 2% boss HP you casted it again. If you're only going to get 5-6 seconds of Barbed Trap it just isn't worth it and it's best to let it fall off.
• Shade is practically double the amount of damage of Impale, so yes it's worth the cast, but only if you're going to get at least 60% of the duration.
• Path is also much more damage than Impale, even if you're casting it early at 10s to line up with Wall. Again, not worth it if you're only going to get like 50% of it.
• Degen is not worth it imo. The damage doesn't outpace Impale even at 12s duration, but you're casting it at 10s. You're also casting it on your back bar where you have less damage stats. Empower is strong, but it's not enough to cover the difference.
• Reach, probably worth it for your build, but definitely not worth it when you can finally swap it out and use another set. When you do, using something like Debilitate as mentioned from the other commenter will allow you to choose another spammable that does more damage.

edit:

Think I was right. If you watch some high parses from SkinnyCheeks, Wall, Trap, Shade, and Path are still casted in execute, but Degen is dropped. Reach isn't used, but if it was used without the set, it'd be dropped too. Also, Incap/Soul Harvest is casted pretty much instantly, the parser never bothered setting up dots first besides maybe a barbed trap or wall cast. It's definitely best to fire off as soon as you can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb7GqFntCXs&ab_channel=SkinnyCheeks

I would definitely defer to skinny cheeks on execute. I am probably guilty of getting too spammy in execute. I also dont parse on NB all that often, so not 100% sure where the thresholds for those other DOTS really is. On most actual bosses, execute goes so fast that one cast of each (shades and path) is really all I get.

I do think that waiting an extra second to cast incap/soul harvest can make sense if your blockade or trap are just off cooldown, but to be real honest, I wouldnt over think this too much. I also sometimes will cast an extra spam or two if I am in the 6 second window as opposed to one of my weaker DOTS, but if its wall or trap, i cast when needed for the most part. And certainly, I would error on the side of casting your ultimate ASAP when its up.

Also, I have zero math to support this, but it would not shock me if something like reach perhaps gave a little higher floor with a static rotation then a more traditional setup. By the same notion, I am guessing the ceiling wont be as high. As you get better with the rotatoin, you might want to try slapping Siroria back on and see what happens. Siroria front bar is tough to beat on a dummy. Sure, Kinras or Nirn might be like 1-3k ahead based on class/spec, but Siroria is still a very strong option (front bar if you can).

OWLTHEMAD

Cant front bar siroria. I think thats why this is out performing it.

All that extra crit. Ive thought about medusa or tsovgins, but ya know, transmutes.

OWLTHEMAD

Because with siroria i have to frontbar mothers sorrow, and thats just a lot of crit to lose on back bar.

OWLTHEMAD

Also, i as a rule, only parse on settups i actually use in content.

Siroria is nice, but not always practical. Masters staff allows me full rotation while staying in motion

Since i dont run a sheild and need range alot, i tend to stick with swaow soul and staff.

If it was a significant increase i could be convinced to melee, but honestly the improvement is within my own margin of error in a parse so i wont go that route until im hitting in the 90s already, and at that point ill already be hitting harder than most nightblades ive run into.

So its not likely to change until i can go full meta

Oreyn_Bearclaw

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Also, i as a rule, only parse on settups i actually use in content.

Siroria is nice, but not always practical. Masters staff allows me full rotation while staying in motion

Since i dont run a sheild and need range alot, i tend to stick with swaow soul and staff.

If it was a significant increase i could be convinced to melee, but honestly the improvement is within my own margin of error in a parse so i wont go that route until im hitting in the 90s already, and at that point ill already be hitting harder than most nightblades ive run into.

So its not likely to change until i can go full meta

Transmutes should never be a barrier to gear. They are so easy to farm. Between PVP geodes and reconstructed monster helms, I have like 3000 banked at all times. You can get half a dozen toons on the PVP boards in like 2 hours (300 stones) with a little practice. You can also run about 10 random normals an hour (100 stones)if you have a low level friend (or alt account) to force the queue to FG1, Spindle 1, or BC 1. Next time you see a sale, its worth buying a second account just for this, lol.

Dont buy into the hype that Siroria is a bad set in actual content. Even with a decent amount of movement, its a strong set. If you follow the rule that you move when you have to and stand still when you dont, it will work on any fight in the game. That is good advice no matter what set you are wearing. I would still bet you can out parse your current setup with Siroria body and MS front bar. I ran that setup for a long time before I get my perfected siroria staff, but of course, siroria front bar is better. I think the difference is like 2-3k depending on which one your front bar, maybe less.

I am not a fan of DW on magic users. Only time I ever do that is if dummy humping, which is rare for me these days, or its a trial where I am min/maxing and swapping gear for every single pull, also rare for me these days. I play mostly NB these days, and almost always go staff. My preferred setup is Tzogvin and Bahsei, with either Kilt or DDF as a mythic and one piece slimecraw. I almost always run funnel as well, but for pure stack and burn where I dont care about the heal, ele weapon is better.

My one bar setup to rule them all is:
Front: Swallow, Merciless, Impale, Flex, Inner Light, Incap.
Back: Path, Shades, Orbs, Wall, Siphoning, Destro.

My Flex is mostly Sap Essence for the AOE, if I could only pick one, thats it. Sometimes I run shield, and sometimes I run Cammo Hunter if Its single target and dont need a shield (VAS+2 comes to mind). On RARE occasions I replace funnel with ele weapon and put debilitate in my flex, but again, only when really min/maxing pulls.

Also, max damage on any magic class is going to be in the range of blockade, so the distinction between melee and range is not nearly as drastic as most people make it out to be. Nose on the bosses arse is usually the best place to be for just about any spec, unless you have a specific 12 man formation you need to stick to.

OWLTHEMAD

I get about 3 hours to my self during the week. My only farm time is on the weekends. So yeah, transmutes are a barrier.

Farming is a barrier in general. Took me 6 months to farm siroria back in the day and that was just for the body.

Gotta pay the eso+ someway

OWLTHEMAD

3 hours a day.

OWLTHEMAD

Also. I dont dislike siroria, i just like mobility.

In fights id prefer to just straffe or kite dangers while continuing my rotation vs roll dodging. And if i was getting significantly better dps from it id keep using it.

But legit im getting better numbers stacking more into crit and getting extra damage from the staff.

My philosophy is like this. The kilt is a replacement for a five peice bonus, the staff is a replacement.for a monster set.

OWLTHEMAD

If that helps you wrap your head around my drsign decisions

Oreyn_Bearclaw

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

If that helps you wrap your head around my drsign decisions

To be clear, I have no issues with your gear choices. I actually like outside the box builds, as long as there is method to the madness. Here there seems to be. You certainly dont need to justify your build to me or anyone else for that matter. 80K plus on mageblade is better than 95% of the people playing this game.

I do believe, however, that your particular choices with this gear setup and rotation (rotation is always WAY more important than gear) may give you a ceiling that is lower than you would perhaps like it to be.

My point about siroria is that the mobility argument is often made, but I dont think it has the teeth a lot of people think it does. Stand in your stack, move when you need to, and its one of the best damage sets in the game for the vast majority of content.

If you get better numbers with other sets, than you should definitely run them. I dont, however, buy into the premise that your build gives you more Mobility than a meta build. Mageblade is an inherently mobile DPS class. One of the the most mobile fights in the game is VAS+2. It is typically full of mageblades in any trifecta group. I have run that with Siroria many times. Do I do as well as Tzog/Bahasei, no, but its still perfectly viable. My guess is that I would pull better numbers in VAS+2 with MS and SIroria then with your setup, but certainly, I havent tried.

Thats really the point I was making. You shouldnt be DPSing in this game like a chicken with their head cut off, regardless of the gear you where. Sometimes you need to kite, sometimes you need to block, sometimes you need to roll dodge, some times you need to take a step or two to the left or right. Generally, choosing the least movement necessary is the best option, and if you play that way, your damage will be higher than if you dont.

Farming is of course relative to everyone. If I where you, I would focus any farming efforts on a tzogvin staff and jewelry (these runs can be bought thanks stickerbook) in case you do want to get away from your master staff at some point. Kinra is more damage, but being able to get away from Trap is really nice, and unless you are at the bleeding edge of DPS, you probably wont notice the difference. I have both sets, I run tzogvin a LOT more often.