Are these good enough stats for average performance (magsorc, CP 708)?

Tesman85

The character discussed is a Breton magsorc, CP 708. During this event I have taken a liking to PvP but noticed that my character's performance wasn't that stellar. For the worst problem, her magicka seemed to run dry too easily - for instance I lost a 1-on-1 fight that lasted five minutes because in the end I was obliged to spam Dark Exchange too much to recover magicka. That duration for a fight might be good (?) for a novice, but that's because I suspect the character had too much protection for the detriment of resources and damage. Here are her stats before I made changes (all values unbuffed by anything except champion points and gear):

Max Magicka 28006; Magicka Recovery 811; Max Health 17744; Health Recovery 309; Max Stamina 12000; Stamina Recovery 576; Spell Damage 3071; Spell Critical 24 %; Spell Penetration 7732; Weapon Damage 3071; Wepon Critical 24 %; Physical Penetration 7732; Spell Resistance 23483; Physical Resistance 15488; Critical Resistance 1320

Then I made the character a new set of armor and jewelry and now the stats look like this:

Max Magicka 28942; Magicka Recovery 1658; Max Health 17744; Health Recovery 309; Max Stamina 12000; Stamina Recovery 555; Spell Damage 3022; Spell Critical 22,2 %; Spell Penetration 8671; Weapon Damage 3022; Wepon Critical 22,2 %; Physical Penetration 8671; Spell Resistance 19812; Physical Resistance 13872; Critical Resistance 1940

As can be seen, I sacrificed lots of protection and small amounts of straight-up damage and critical for dramatic increases in Magicka recovery, penetration and critical resistance. When I've looked at builds online, I see that many of them have even less protection than this. Still, I'm a bit worried. Namely, my goal at the moment is not to have a glass cannon, but something that can survive a few mistakes on my part and deliver decent damage at the same time. I've hopefully mitigated some of the lessened protection by slotting some shield spells.

So, I would appreciate if someone could tell me which stats look better for a PvP beginner to start seriously training Cyrodiil fighting? And also, if these are even semi-decent for a character with these CP? The intended role for the character is mostly to fight in groups and switch to healing if things look bad, and to be able to handle an occasional 1-on-1 situation. At the moment I don't have access to most BiS-gear and, of course, can't even dream of the massive numbers that show up in some CP 2000- builds I see on the net.

Brrrofski

Those stats aren't very good to be honest.

A lot of people will say you need to stack max magica. Which is definitely a legit way to play, and rely on shield stacking. I played that for the longest time, but recently switched and it's the best mag sorc build I've played.

For reference, I'm 702 CP on a new server, so same as you really. Here are my stats for reference.

Health - 27804 (29826 after casting shield)
Magica - 32040
Stamina - 14215

Mag regen - 2013 (2547 with potion up)
Stam regen - 1255

Spell damage - 4233 (4519 with magma up)
Spell crit - 14.7 % (26.7% with potion up)
Pen - 10761

Physical resistance - 31344 (34318 with magma up)
Spell resistance - 26130 (29104 with magma up)
Crit resist - 1444

This is self-buffed. No continuous or anything. So spell damage and regens go up. Also have spell damage glyph so that goes up and spell crit does a few % after dark magic ability.

Breton
Atronach
Orzogas smoked bear haunch
Magica, spell crit and immovable potions
Vamp stage 3

Magma incarnate
Markyn ring of majesty
Trainee chest
5 spinners front bar
5 buffer of the swift back bar

4 light, 2 heavy, 1 medium

You can run less mag recovery if you're not vamp. I personally like vamp, as I only use one shield and play super aggressive. Vamp stage 3 allows me to push that a bit with a bit of a safety net and recovery time.

Spinners front bar for big damage, and swift back bar for defence. I also have revealing flat on my front bar (kinda replicates swift 5th piece on front bar). I dropped mage light for it, which I don't need as much as I'm not stacking max mag. Using bear haunch allows me to drop Tri pots for immovable that give spell crit (so it's also on both bar now which helps with healing).

I've played mag sorc since launch pretty much. I have 1800 CP on another server so know how to play the class well.

I will say, other classes are a lot better to play with lower CP.

What gear are you using? I think that's what you need to look at.

Tesman85

Brrrofski wrote: »

Those stats aren't very good to be honest.

A lot of people will say you need to stack max magica. Which is definitely a legit way to play, and rely on shield stacking. I played that for the longest time, but recently switched and it's the best mag sorc build I've played.

For reference, I'm 702 CP on a new server, so same as you really. Here are my stats for reference.

Health - 27804 (29826 after casting shield)
Magica - 32040
Stamina - 14215

Mag regen - 2013 (2547 with potion up)
Stam regen - 1255

Spell damage - 4233 (4519 with magma up)
Spell crit - 14.7 % (26.7% with potion up)
Pen - 10761

Physical resistance - 31344 (34318 with magma up)
Spell resistance - 26130 (29104 with magma up)
Crit resist - 1444

This is self-buffed. No continuous or anything. So spell damage and regens go up. Also have spell damage glyph so that goes up and spell crit does a few % after dark magic ability.

Breton
Atronach
Orzogas smoked bear haunch
Magica, spell crit and immovable potions
Vamp stage 3

Magma incarnate
Markyn ring of majesty
Trainee chest
5 spinners front bar
5 buffer of the swift back bar

4 light, 2 heavy, 1 medium

You can run less mag recovery if you're not vamp. I personally like vamp, as I only use one shield and play super aggressive. Vamp stage 3 allows me to push that a bit with a bit of a safety net and recovery time.

Spinners front bar for big damage, and swift back bar for defence. I also have revealing flat on my front bar (kinda replicates swift 5th piece on front bar). I dropped mage light for it, which I don't need as much as I'm not stacking max mag. Using bear haunch allows me to drop Tri pots for immovable that give spell crit (so it's also on both bar now which helps with healing).

I've played mag sorc since launch pretty much. I have 1800 CP on another server so know how to play the class well.

I will say, other classes are a lot better to play with lower CP.

What gear are you using? I think that's what you need to look at.

A question: Are those attributes buffed by food/drink? I mean, they look very large compared to mine. The stats I posted were without food buffs.

My character has Magnus's Gift and Law of Julianos for gear (armor trait impenetrable) and Death's Wind for destro staff, back bar resto staff Vanus set. The stats I posted are for the main bar. In gear I have everything CP 160, purple quality, armor with magicka enchantments and jewelry with magicka recovery. Main bar weapon also CP 160, gold.

I took a look at the sets you mentioned, and so great a difference in all numbers can't be explained by gear alone. The only exception is the Markyn ring, which greatly increases armor when wearing multiple sets. So, I think you have allocated your champion points better. IIRC, for me they are too scattered.

I'll try re-allocating CP in a more efficient way and replacing one Magnus armor piece with a Death's Wind for the health bonus. I'll post the results here if the numbers get substantially better.

Thanks for replying! This helped me to see that I've still got learning to do when planning builds.

Tesman85

Okay, it was both gear and CP. I redistributed the CP, which made the situation better except for max magicka. Then I calculated the bonuses of my current sets, then different combinations of craftable sets. Turned out a combination of New Moon Acolyte (5 pieces), Magnus's Gift (4 pieces) and Song of Lamae (3 pieces) gave me most of what I wanted. Now the character's stats look with a lightning staff like this:

Max Magicka 26545; Magicka Recovery 1777; Max Health 19424; Health Recovery 399; Max Stamina 12000; Stamina Recovery 652; Spell Damage 3434; Spell Critical 19,3 %; Spell Penetration 10106; Weapon Damage 3434; Weapon Critical 19,3 %; Physical Penetration 10106; Spell Resistance 24018; Physical Resistance 18078; Critical Resistance 1568

and with a restoration staff:

Max Magicka 26545; Magicka Recovery 1777; Max Health 19424; Health Recovery 399; Max Stamina 12000; Stamina Recovery 652; Spell Damage 3434; Spell Critical 19,3 %; Spell Penetration 6830; Weapon Damage 3434; Weapon Critical 19,3 %; Physical Penetration 6830; Spell Resistance 27294; Physical Resistance 21354; Critical Resistance 1568

So max magicka took a hit, but everything else important went up nicely. More survivability and damage, with a relatively small hit to the crit chance and resistance. As for max magicka, I always use tri-stat buff food out in the field anyway, so it's not big issue. I think this a tolerable starting point while I accumulate transmute stones and better overland/dungeon set items. Also, when/if I have the time, I must hunt for the Markyn ring leads and dig the parts up. Then I can dispense with the Lamae set and replace it with something more offensive.

Brrrofski

Yes, that is with food. I use orzogas bear haunch. A cheaper version which isn't much different is jewels of misrule.

Firstly, get a monster set. It's two powerful not to run one.

Secondly, get either markyn or death dealer's fete. The latter is better imo, just haven't farmed it on this server.

Also, you want a front back and back bar set. It's too strong not to. You can get two 5 pieces, a mythic, monster set and trainee 1 piece.

Spinners or Scathing mage are good choices.

For back bar, something defensive like swift or pariah.

I'm not sure how your max stats are so low. 19k health is way too low. Max stam/stam regen is really low too. You need either to be higher or you won't break any CCs.

My stats are buffed up. So boundless storm, crit surge and a potion.

Tesman85

Brrrofski wrote: »

I'm not sure how your max stats are so low. 19k health is way too low. Max stam/stam regen is really low too. You need either to be higher or you won't break any CCs.

Oh, the character had no food buff on when I took the numbers. With my usual go-to tristat food Longfin Pasty they are magicka 30650, health 23886, stamina 16105. The regens are still the same as in my earlier post. Yes, stamina regen is quite low. Maybe I should put my crafter at work and find out if there's a potion for it?

As for gear, I'm under the constraints that I work weekdays and dislike grinding. So I play only fun parts of the game in my spare time, aiming to get the best gear etc I can as easily as possible. Thus, I prefer crafted sets. (I know, too lazy.) But yeah, I should give some time for gear farming since so many overland and dungeon sets are better. Fortunately I already have quite a few set items in the stickerbook just from casual playing and treasure hunting. Also, I like digging up the antiquities so I'll try and find the Markyn ring parts.

SkaraMinoc

I'll point you in the right direction. 3 philosophies for Mag Sorc.

Max Magicka Builds

• Selfish shield that is strong when spammed
• Low damage (10.5 magicka = 1 spell damage)
• Unable to run Twilight Matriarch group heals due to lack of slots and weak heal from max magicka
• Typically has high sustain from magicka recovery

Most Mag Sorcs run max magicka. They have annoying shields and their damage is usually weak, comparatively. Many players aren't afraid to fight a shield sorc because they know the burst damage just isn't there. The survivability is good but it requires the Mag Sorc to be on the defensive and not applying pressure.

Cookie Cutter Build: Crafty, Ancient Grace, DDF, 1 trainee, and usually 1 Swarm Mother + 1 Domihaus

Spell Penetration Builds

• Medium damage (~20k spell penetration)
• Weak shields
• No Twilight Matriarch
• Sustain is decent

The damage is much higher than max magicka builds but have weaker shields from only 35-40k max magicka.

Example Build: Heartland Conqueror, Spinner, 1 Valkyn Skoria, DDF / Torc / Sithis / 1 Kra'gh

Spell Damage Builds

• Extremely high burst combo damage
• 7k spell damage when buffs are active, 8k with Bloodthirsty @ 20%
• 8-11k spell penetration depending on Apprentice or Lover
• Twilight Matriarch is very strong when it works (pet alive, group in range and line of sight)
• Torc needed to compensate for low sustain
• Able to block regularly

When you get clapped for 70% of your health in 1 second then it's probably a spell damage Mag Sorc. That's only if you didn't get 1shot somehow, probably because Crystal Fragments Proc didn't crit. These players almost always have a Twilight Matriarch out and are using skills and sets you wouldn't normally see from a Mag Sorc.

Spell damage Mag Sorcs usually don't give out build secrets because of how strong they are. Look for sources of damage that don't involve magicka and you'll figure it out eventually.

Good luck!

Tesman85

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

I'll point you in the right direction. 3 philosophies for Mag Sorc.

Max Magicka Builds

• Selfish shield that is strong when spammed
• Low damage (10.5 magicka = 1 spell damage)
• Unable to run Twilight Matriarch group heals due to lack of slots and weak heal from max magicka
• Typically has high sustain from magicka recovery

Most Mag Sorcs run max magicka. They have annoying shields and their damage is usually weak, comparatively. Many players aren't afraid to fight a shield sorc because they know the burst damage just isn't there. The survivability is good but it requires the Mag Sorc to be on the defensive and not applying pressure.

Cookie Cutter Build: Crafty, Ancient Grace, DDF, 1 trainee, and usually 1 Swarm Mother + 1 Domihaus

Spell Penetration Builds

• Medium damage (~20k spell penetration)
• Weak shields
• No Twilight Matriarch
• Sustain is decent

The damage is much higher than max magicka builds but have weaker shields from only 35-40k max magicka.

Example Build: Heartland Conqueror, Spinner, 1 Valkyn Skoria, DDF / Torc / Sithis / 1 Kra'gh

Spell Damage Builds

• Extremely high burst combo damage
• 7k spell damage when buffs are active, 8k with Bloodthirsty @ 20%
• 8-11k spell penetration depending on Apprentice or Lover
• Twilight Matriarch is very strong when it works (pet alive, group in range and line of sight)
• Torc needed to compensate for low sustain
• Able to block regularly

When you get clapped for 70% of your health in 1 second then it's probably a spell damage Mag Sorc. That's only if you didn't get 1shot somehow, probably because Crystal Fragments Proc didn't crit. These players almost always have a Twilight Matriarch out and are using skills and sets you wouldn't normally see from a Mag Sorc.

Spell damage Mag Sorcs usually don't give out build secrets because of how strong they are. Look for sources of damage that don't involve magicka and you'll figure it out eventually.

Good luck!

Thanks! I'll look into those sets and builds and see what could work best for me. ATM something along the lines of max magicka build would seem most workable, as I aim mostly to fight in Cyrodiil in groups. One question though, if I decide otherwise: Is Twilight Matriarch obligatory for a high damage build? Namely, I detest fussing with the pets and so don't ever use them.

Tesman85

Well I ran a test with my new build. In a duel I died pretty fast, but at least survived for longer than usual and even got some damage in. I didn't expect much better; either I have very slow reflexes or everyone else who duels has supernatural ones and years of practice too. So I nearly always lose duels.

In Cyrodiil group fights results were much better according to a short test run. When keeping food and spell buffs up, the character survived better and got higher damage. I even could go for a few seconds toe-to-toe with the sort of 1VXer who would have insta-killed me before. Of course, I lost but wasn't just a target dummy.

So, a qualified success this far. Maybe this can serve as a starting point so that I can learn better.

My personal player skills remain still a great problem, though, as they are lousy. If only that could be bought from the crown store... Well, no helping it, gotta learn the hard way seemingly.

EDIT: Did an hour more testing in Cyrodiil. Certainly much better, as long as I remember to keep the spell buffs up!

EDIT 2: Two hours more battling, and this looks tolerably good. Functions as an adequate healer and with buffs up the damage is much, much better, as is survivability. One on one situations are still almost certain lose, but that has to do with lacking player skill, too. In group fights I can now contribute adequately without dying to a scratch, which was my goal.

SkaraMinoc

Tesman85 wrote: »

Well I ran a test with my new build. In a duel I died pretty fast, but at least survived for longer than usual and even got some damage in. I didn't expect much better; either I have very slow reflexes or everyone else who duels has supernatural ones and years of practice too. So I nearly always lose duels.

For 1v1 duels you probably want as much damage as possible and run Pale Order. It's been awhile since I've dueled but the best Mag Sorc duelers I've seen all run Pale Order and apply a ton of pressure.

For 1vX you never want a Twilight Matriarch because players will just kill it. It's very weak and the summon can be interrupted. Max magicka is much better so you can stack shields and survive while still having some damage.

For Group vs Group, the Twilight Matriarch really shines if you can stay at range and off heal while doing damage and securing kills with a strong Endless Fury.

Tesman85

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Tesman85 wrote: »

Well I ran a test with my new build. In a duel I died pretty fast, but at least survived for longer than usual and even got some damage in. I didn't expect much better; either I have very slow reflexes or everyone else who duels has supernatural ones and years of practice too. So I nearly always lose duels.

For 1v1 duels you probably want as much damage as possible and run Pale Order. It's been awhile since I've dueled but the best Mag Sorc duelers I've seen all run Pale Order and apply a ton of pressure.

For 1vX you never want a Twilight Matriarch because players will just kill it. It's very weak and the summon can be interrupted. Max magicka is much better so you can stack shields and survive while still having some damage.

For Group vs Group, the Twilight Matriarch really shines if you can stay at range and off heal while doing damage and securing kills with a strong Endless Fury.

Thanks for the clarification! The pressure seems to be precisely the problem. I'm so slow compared to most others at the start of the fight that I tend to lose the initiative immediately. Can't really do anything but try to heal and survive when the other guy hits you with everything he has and doesn't let up. Gotta train that draw, apparently, like in Western movies Besides, I was aiming more for being a part of a group, so no wonder the build isn't ideal for duels.

Brrrofski

Dueling is another thing entirely.

I mean, you need to build and play different. So don't pay too much attention to duels. They can be ok to test burst, or maybe defensive combos.

Test in open world PvP if I were you though. It's a lot different from duels.

Brrrofski

Tesman85 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

I'll point you in the right direction. 3 philosophies for Mag Sorc.

Max Magicka Builds

• Selfish shield that is strong when spammed
• Low damage (10.5 magicka = 1 spell damage)
• Unable to run Twilight Matriarch group heals due to lack of slots and weak heal from max magicka
• Typically has high sustain from magicka recovery

Most Mag Sorcs run max magicka. They have annoying shields and their damage is usually weak, comparatively. Many players aren't afraid to fight a shield sorc because they know the burst damage just isn't there. The survivability is good but it requires the Mag Sorc to be on the defensive and not applying pressure.

Cookie Cutter Build: Crafty, Ancient Grace, DDF, 1 trainee, and usually 1 Swarm Mother + 1 Domihaus

Spell Penetration Builds

• Medium damage (~20k spell penetration)
• Weak shields
• No Twilight Matriarch
• Sustain is decent

The damage is much higher than max magicka builds but have weaker shields from only 35-40k max magicka.

Example Build: Heartland Conqueror, Spinner, 1 Valkyn Skoria, DDF / Torc / Sithis / 1 Kra'gh

Spell Damage Builds

• Extremely high burst combo damage
• 7k spell damage when buffs are active, 8k with Bloodthirsty @ 20%
• 8-11k spell penetration depending on Apprentice or Lover
• Twilight Matriarch is very strong when it works (pet alive, group in range and line of sight)
• Torc needed to compensate for low sustain
• Able to block regularly

When you get clapped for 70% of your health in 1 second then it's probably a spell damage Mag Sorc. That's only if you didn't get 1shot somehow, probably because Crystal Fragments Proc didn't crit. These players almost always have a Twilight Matriarch out and are using skills and sets you wouldn't normally see from a Mag Sorc.

Spell damage Mag Sorcs usually don't give out build secrets because of how strong they are. Look for sources of damage that don't involve magicka and you'll figure it out eventually.

Good luck!

Thanks! I'll look into those sets and builds and see what could work best for me. ATM something along the lines of max magicka build would seem most workable, as I aim mostly to fight in Cyrodiil in groups. One question though, if I decide otherwise: Is Twilight Matriarch obligatory for a high damage build? Namely, I detest fussing with the pets and so don't ever use them.

I run a spell damage build and don't run matriach.

I hate the the thing.

I run solo 90% of the time and rapid regen is my primary heal.

Tesman85

Brrrofski wrote: »

Dueling is another thing entirely.

I mean, you need to build and play different. So don't pay too much attention to duels. They can be ok to test burst, or maybe defensive combos.

Test in open world PvP if I were you though. It's a lot different from duels.

Well, after that ill-fated duel I fought for three hours in Cyrodiil. There the results were much better, as detailed a few posts up.

MEBengalsFan2001

Sent you a PM on what I recommend for a build for you. Feel free to reply if you have questions.

Tesman85

An update: After quite a few hours of testing and building some player skills, I find the build outlined in post #4 (please note the numbers are without food or other buffs) very adequate for Cyrodiil fighting. If I'm not ambushed by some glass cannon NB, I can survive rather nicely and carry my weight in keep battles etc. Having a resto staff as back bar is essential for this. But it isn't a problem, since I can double as a healer. In fact, having healing skills is a definite bonus. Once, for instance, I managed to escape alive from about four players who hurled spells and bow attacks at me after I stumbled onto them alone. That kind of thing wouldn't have been possible before.

Also, I tried out the build in overland content. Turned out I am now able to solo most world bosses with relative ease with this character, and public dungeons are a breeze. I only have to swap a skill or two in the destro staff bar to suit the content. So, I have in effect created a tolerable all-rounder for semi-filthy semi-casuals like me. Best thing is that this is available for anyone with a crafter who has researched all traits for five items. I'm sure that with dungeon sets and such this would be even better, but all in all it's not bad. Let no one say craftable sets aren't of any use!