Hats off to the skilled PVPers

krachall

I freely and openly admit that I'm not a good PVPer. I simply don't have the twitch skills they do nor do I think I will ever get them. I only PVP during the Mayhem event and I do it poorly. I exclusively play stamblades so my PVP characters are just differently geared versions of them...albeit relying heavily on stealth. From that vantage point, I get to observe, in relative safety, a lot of PVP action.

Good PVPers are amazing and I've witnessed some really remarkable things.

In the first day of the Mayhem event, I watched a single player in IC solo a district boss, get jumped by two other players, get jumped by me, and kill all three of us AND the boss without his health ever going below 50%. No cheating, no exploits, no manipulating LOS...just a solid build and honed skills.

I watched a group of 6 players take a lumber mill outside a keep while fending off at least 30 people from another alliance. 6v30 and they wiped the other alliance, capped the resource, and I don't recall seeing any of their health bars drop below 90%. Solid builds and perfect coordination.

I watched two alliances effectively team up on the third alliance and basically wipe them off the map. This "green" team had the discipline and communication to a) not attack each other intentionally and b) keep just separate enough that AOE skills didn't affect the allied group. It was like watching a freight train just plowing through keeps.

I was killed by a good PVPer before I even knew they were there. I was in stealth, at speed (CPs and Wild Hunt ring) and then I was dead. Never saw the other player. A three-hit, 2h combo killed me before I could even press a key. I've tried all sorts of combos on training dummies and dueling and I can't come close to dishing out that amount of damage in that short of time on a stationary target, let alone an active player.

There are some damn good PVPers in this game and I have loads of respect for what they can do.

drsalvation

"A three-hit, 2h combo killed me before I could even press a key"
It's exactly why I despise PvP, it's not really fair combat. Red dead online isn't fair either. Anything that can practically insta-kill you without giving you a chance to do anything to prevent it, let alone react to it, simply put, is not fair. That's why this game doesn't punish you for dying,
But that said, it will always intrigue me how players manage to get those high numbers.
A player blasted me dealing like 15k dmg with a single attack (recap showed other attacks around 6k and 7k
It was over 30k in less than a second, meanwhile my strongest build is around 20k dps.

To be fair, I've always been a tank, ever since the game released on consoles, only when armory released I changed to DPS, it feels wrong that I'm not a tank anymore, it doesn't suit me at all, but this game simply has no love for tanks so I had to switch to damage in order to enjoy the rest of the game's content, so I dunno how much is too much DPS or too little...

And that said, the fact that even as a tank with over 50k hp a single player would still manage to one-shot me is really something. I won't pretend it's something I admire considering how much I dislike dying that easily and seeing that my hardcore tank char got one-shot just like that wasn't something that sits right with me, but it still fills me with intrigue on how the hell do players manage to output that much damage in so little time.

They clearly did the math.
I hate that lol.
But it's still commendable.

Wolfpaw

krachall wrote: »

I freely and openly admit that I'm not a good PVPer. I simply don't have the twitch skills they do nor do I think I will ever get them. I only PVP during the Mayhem event and I do it poorly. I exclusively play stamblades so my PVP characters are just differently geared versions of them...albeit relying heavily on stealth. From that vantage point, I get to observe, in relative safety, a lot of PVP action.

Good PVPers are amazing and I've witnessed some really remarkable things.

In the first day of the Mayhem event, I watched a single player in IC solo a district boss, get jumped by two other players, get jumped by me, and kill all three of us AND the boss without his health ever going below 50%. No cheating, no exploits, no manipulating LOS...just a solid build and honed skills.

I watched a group of 6 players take a lumber mill outside a keep while fending off at least 30 people from another alliance. 6v30 and they wiped the other alliance, capped the resource, and I don't recall seeing any of their health bars drop below 90%. Solid builds and perfect coordination.

I watched two alliances effectively team up on the third alliance and basically wipe them off the map. This "green" team had the discipline and communication to a) not attack each other intentionally and b) keep just separate enough that AOE skills didn't affect the allied group. It was like watching a freight train just plowing through keeps.

I was killed by a good PVPer before I even knew they were there. I was in stealth, at speed (CPs and Wild Hunt ring) and then I was dead. Never saw the other player. A three-hit, 2h combo killed me before I could even press a key. I've tried all sorts of combos on training dummies and dueling and I can't come close to dishing out that amount of damage in that short of time on a stationary target, let alone an active player.

There are some damn good PVPers in this game and I have loads of respect for what they can do.

That's great support, ty.

Don't give up on yourself, the "twitch" PvP/skill takes a lot of practice and many deaths. Also, outside of solo play, organized PvP groups are made up of many roles like damage, support/heal, & control...you may find a role you excel in past just damage or solo 1vX. Guilds make the difference, & always glad to see positive remarks towards pvp.

krachall

drsalvation wrote: »

uch is too much DPS or too little...

And that said, the fact that even as a tank with over 50k hp a single player would still manage to one-shot me is really something. I won't pretend it's something I admire considering how much I dislike dying that easily and seeing that my hardcore tank char got one-shot just like that wasn't something that sits right with me, but it still fills me with intrigue on how the hell do players manage to output that much damage in so little time..

Here's the thing though...another good PVPer will be able to withstand that amazing onslaught of damage and fight back. Two great PVPers will slog it it out back and forth forever while the rest of us would die to the initial burst.

THAT is the part I can't comprehend. How they simultaneously insta-kill a low skill player but survive the same attack from another skilled player?

furiouslog

krachall wrote: »

drsalvation wrote: »

uch is too much DPS or too little...

And that said, the fact that even as a tank with over 50k hp a single player would still manage to one-shot me is really something. I won't pretend it's something I admire considering how much I dislike dying that easily and seeing that my hardcore tank char got one-shot just like that wasn't something that sits right with me, but it still fills me with intrigue on how the hell do players manage to output that much damage in so little time..

Here's the thing though...another good PVPer will be able to withstand that amazing onslaught of damage and fight back. Two great PVPers will slog it it out back and forth forever while the rest of us would die to the initial burst.

THAT is the part I can't comprehend. How they simultaneously insta-kill a low skill player but survive the same attack from another skilled player?

It's all build and stacking buffs. One of the core things I have learned over time is that lot of PVP builds depend less on min-maxing a single purpose build, and more on min-maxing within the front and back bars separately. You stack a lot of offense front bar, and defend/buff/heal with back bar - effective swap management is key to being able to dish it out and take it at the same time.

Wolfpaw

krachall wrote: »

drsalvation wrote: »

uch is too much DPS or too little...

And that said, the fact that even as a tank with over 50k hp a single player would still manage to one-shot me is really something. I won't pretend it's something I admire considering how much I dislike dying that easily and seeing that my hardcore tank char got one-shot just like that wasn't something that sits right with me, but it still fills me with intrigue on how the hell do players manage to output that much damage in so little time..

Here's the thing though...another good PVPer will be able to withstand that amazing onslaught of damage and fight back. Two great PVPers will slog it it out back and forth forever while the rest of us would die to the initial burst.

THAT is the part I can't comprehend. How they simultaneously insta-kill a low skill player but survive the same attack from another skilled player?

Practice, playstyle, understanding mechanics (lots of players rarely block, if it all), buff/heal uptime, build & gear setup, knowledge of each class abilities, etc...

PvP is not one sport, try looking at it as many sports thrown in one arena. For example most of my builds are for ball group, if I was to fight a 1vX I would lose, & if a couple 1vX's try to fight a ball group they would lose.

1vX=Boxer
Ball Group=Football (American)
Zerg=Soccer

Hope my 2cents gives a different perspective.

Zama666

Some PvP'er - just amazing! I love watching them on Twitch or YouTube. When playing I get kill so fast, I never really get to see how I died.

Recently had a good time with someone else who sucked we actually went at it for over 5 minutes (then someone killed the dood) and it was fun. I learned some stuff! Hats to the other Dood. (for anyone experienced it would have been a face palming experience)

Stacking...looking for help here.

Running a Templar in Cyrodiil. 2H and Resto staff. So it seems front bar offense, back bar defense?
I keep a heal on my front bar, because I need it FAST. Is this wrong?

Any help for what i should stack?

The 3 cases

1) for decent damage
2) sustain
3) defense

Or am I thinking about this wrong?

Tanks,

Z

BronzeCaiman

Yeah hats off to players who burst you down before you can even react, and those heavy attack builds too, 20k+ with one button, genius.

runa_gate

Well, people who spec into being single-second gankers are going to be instantly obliterated by actual PvPers who will instantly react, CC then and burst them down. Not all, but most.

The thing is PvP, especially AvA in Cyrodiil, has a lot of rock-scissors-paper going on. There's no build that's good at doing everything, and even purely support roles are often invaluable. There's just a lot of variation on what can happen. Run into one really tough bruiser with good burst DSP one moment, run into a 60 person charge the next (who may be tremendously organized and theorycrafted to synergize all possible buffs and niche skills, or laughably inept, not coorddinated at all, and who get obliterated by a handful of coordinated and prepared foiks).

My current favorite build is a 50k health tank with a weird combination of sets and skills to jump into 40 people but also at least be dangerous enough to a small group that they can't just walk away and ignore (definitely a good idea when confronted with an unkillable permablock build). But I have multiple characters with multiple builds depending on what I anticipate is going to happen.

One is Vicious Death/Dark Convergence/Detonation which requires precisely 0 skill and is just there in case an entire faction stacks into a spot and you need to blow up 30 of them at a time. Useful, but not fun in any other situation.

The funny thing is if you care at all about the alliance war you spend very little time around the kind of builds you'll see in IC as those people are running around a tower or some rocks fighting one another endlessly and accomplishing nothing. Despite how they advertise it there's almost no skill, and it's just running away a lot and timing, waiting for people without that kind of build to run out of resources.

There's lot of terribly skilled players an they are indeed fun to watch. Make no mistake, though, that all of them have an achilles heel and in a place like IC where everyone builds for survival above anything else you'll now see someone rolling up with Hrothgar's or Knight Slayer or some other niche build made to eliminate those particular builds, but in Cyrodiil some groups are bright enough to diversify for such circumstances.

IC WB are scary as hell and having soloed a couple today there's still a few in the sewers I'd never tackle alone.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

As a PVPer, I just wanted to point out the real combat in Cyrodiil: PvG...player versus game. Lag, skills not working, screen shuddering, desynchs, load screens, disconnects, crashes. They happen to all of the players no matter what faction. It is frustrating riding to try to rescue your keep under attack and you crash only to be placed in queue again. Only to hear it was a large d tick that you would have gotten if you hadn't crashed. 8 years of the same problems even without mayhem.

SirAxen

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

As a PVPer, I just wanted to point out the real combat in Cyrodiil: PvG...player versus game. Lag, skills not working, screen shuddering, desynchs, load screens, disconnects, crashes. They happen to all of the players no matter what faction. It is frustrating riding to try to rescue your keep under attack and you crash only to be placed in queue again. Only to hear it was a large d tick that you would have gotten if you hadn't crashed. 8 years of the same problems even without mayhem.

This is one of the many reasons why I'm surprised people even PVP in ESO at all. ESO has a lot to offer, but if PVP is the only thing someone TRULY enjoys, there are games out there with far better PVP performance.

UntilValhalla13

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

As a PVPer, I just wanted to point out the real combat in Cyrodiil: PvG...player versus game. Lag, skills not working, screen shuddering, desynchs, load screens, disconnects, crashes. They happen to all of the players no matter what faction. It is frustrating riding to try to rescue your keep under attack and you crash only to be placed in queue again. Only to hear it was a large d tick that you would have gotten if you hadn't crashed. 8 years of the same problems even without mayhem.

That's one of the main reasons that I just avoid pvp. I'm a fairly competent player, but it seems whenever I go into cyrodil, my skills don't fire, my bar doesn't swap, or I CAN'T BREAK FREE. It's like, how am I supposed to improve if the game won't keep up... I just said screw it, and made a ranged bomber. XD

BronzeCaiman

Farming bosses in IC sewers for motifs, getting pushed by blues and they can´t get in, so what do they do? Someone swaps character to EP, taunts the boss and drags it away so they can get their ball group in to our zone of the sewers. Things like this are why PvP is not skill based, honorable or even repectable.

The3sFinest

Being killed before you can even see the player is not them being skilled, it is bad server lag.

Wolfpaw

SirAxen wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

As a PVPer, I just wanted to point out the real combat in Cyrodiil: PvG...player versus game. Lag, skills not working, screen shuddering, desynchs, load screens, disconnects, crashes. They happen to all of the players no matter what faction. It is frustrating riding to try to rescue your keep under attack and you crash only to be placed in queue again. Only to hear it was a large d tick that you would have gotten if you hadn't crashed. 8 years of the same problems even without mayhem.

This is one of the many reasons why I'm surprised people even PVP in ESO at all. ESO has a lot to offer, but if PVP is the only thing someone TRULY enjoys, there are games out there with far better PVP performance.

Because when the planets align/performance is good, & grouped with friends there's nothing like it.

If ZOS suddenly separated all of pvp into a new "stand alone" game, and a system to transfer toon & unlock all of PvE needed to PvP through PvP....it would be a huge success.

Add it to PlayStation f2p+battle pass Cyrodiil, IC, BG, & some non pvp hub city like GW2 heart of the mists. I would probably never visit ESO PvE game again.

AlnilamE

drsalvation wrote: »

"A three-hit, 2h combo killed me before I could even press a key"
It's exactly why I despise PvP, it's not really fair combat. Red dead online isn't fair either. Anything that can practically insta-kill you without giving you a chance to do anything to prevent it, let alone react to it, simply put, is not fair. That's why this game doesn't punish you for dying,
But that said, it will always intrigue me how players manage to get those high numbers.
A player blasted me dealing like 15k dmg with a single attack (recap showed other attacks around 6k and 7k
It was over 30k in less than a second, meanwhile my strongest build is around 20k dps.

To be fair, I've always been a tank, ever since the game released on consoles, only when armory released I changed to DPS, it feels wrong that I'm not a tank anymore, it doesn't suit me at all, but this game simply has no love for tanks so I had to switch to damage in order to enjoy the rest of the game's content, so I dunno how much is too much DPS or too little...

And that said, the fact that even as a tank with over 50k hp a single player would still manage to one-shot me is really something. I won't pretend it's something I admire considering how much I dislike dying that easily and seeing that my hardcore tank char got one-shot just like that wasn't something that sits right with me, but it still fills me with intrigue on how the hell do players manage to output that much damage in so little time.

They clearly did the math.
I hate that lol.
But it's still commendable.

Honestly, you get better with practice. I PvP sporadically and I notice that when I go on PvP binges, I get a lot better at defending myself. I used to just freeze when I was attacked. The first time I managed to turn around and kill the person attacking me was a lot of fun.

Jaraal

Having spent thousands of hours in Cyrodiil, I can confirm that there are some amazing players out there. Conversely, there are average players (like myself) who just enjoy participating in the Alliance war, and trying to help my team win.

However, I have seen many inexperienced players come in and have a pretty rough time of it at first. But they stick with it, watch, and learn….. and eventually become amazing players in their own right. It’s just a matter of being humble and accepting that you are going to die a lot at first. But the rewards for sticking with it are fantastic.

KMarble

Zama666 wrote: »

Some PvP'er - just amazing! I love watching them on Twitch or YouTube. When playing I get kill so fast, I never really get to see how I died.

Recently had a good time with someone else who sucked we actually went at it for over 5 minutes (then someone killed the dood) and it was fun. I learned some stuff! Hats to the other Dood. (for anyone experienced it would have been a face palming experience)

Stacking...looking for help here.

Running a Templar in Cyrodiil. 2H and Resto staff. So it seems front bar offense, back bar defense?
I keep a heal on my front bar, because I need it FAST. Is this wrong?

Any help for what i should stack?

The 3 cases

1) for decent damage
2) sustain
3) defense

Or am I thinking about this wrong?

Tanks,

Z

I was about to say the other dude was me, but I'm pretty sure I wasn't fighting a templar last night in IC. I died, but had a blast.

Deter1UK

Nice op

I don’t PvP as such but when I go into Cyrodill whether it’s for master writs or event tickets or skyshards whatever I always try and add something like keep repair or resource capture or a bit of ballister work on a keep seige so I feel I’ve contributed something to the server. Did all of the above today and would like to thank the player who rezzed me twice = very kind considering my contribution was pretty minimal!

But yes it was very entertaining watching the players as I lay there, their skill is admirable indeed!

FlopsyPrince

Letting me play against others who suck as much as I do at PvP might make it worthwhile.

I am not impressed with it now, but tolerate it at times.

katanagirl1

When I think about it, I still cannot believe that I love PvP and am actually better at it than PvE (but that’s not saying a whole lot, lol!). I remember leveling up Vigor and Caltrops for my stamblade years ago and waiting for enough AP to level up those skills and get out ASAP.

People look at my cp and assume I’m running trials. Instead I’m moving furniture around in my in-game houses.

I guess you don’t like PvP until something clicks and suddenly you have a build that works and you’re having the best time of your life!

PvE gets predictable but each encounter in PvP is always different. Sometimes not in a good way, lol.

SirAxen

Wolfpaw wrote: »

SirAxen wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

As a PVPer, I just wanted to point out the real combat in Cyrodiil: PvG...player versus game. Lag, skills not working, screen shuddering, desynchs, load screens, disconnects, crashes. They happen to all of the players no matter what faction. It is frustrating riding to try to rescue your keep under attack and you crash only to be placed in queue again. Only to hear it was a large d tick that you would have gotten if you hadn't crashed. 8 years of the same problems even without mayhem.

This is one of the many reasons why I'm surprised people even PVP in ESO at all. ESO has a lot to offer, but if PVP is the only thing someone TRULY enjoys, there are games out there with far better PVP performance.

Because when the planets align/performance is good, & grouped with friends there's nothing like it.

If ZOS suddenly separated all of pvp into a new "stand alone" game, and a system to transfer toon & unlock all of PvE needed to PvP through PvP....it would be a huge success.

Add it to PlayStation f2p+battle pass Cyrodiil, IC, BG, & some non pvp hub city like GW2 heart of the mists. I would probably never visit ESO PvE game again.

I've played plenty of games that have PVP similar to ESO, so I wouldn't go quite so far as to say 'there is nothing like it.' But, that said, I'm glad you enjoy it so much.