No more repeat Emperor!

megasurge93

It is not exciting to me to see the same dozen or so people on each faction be emperor every campaign. I'd rather see brand new players get emperor and that is much more exciting. Between the repeat emperor, boosting to get in the top 10 and groups extorting other players to pay so they drop and then they "let" you get emperor. I think a way to curb this type of behaviour/exploitation is to change it so players can only ever get emperor once per character. If that were the case, then suddenly we might see people actually helping out other players instead of blocking 80% of the players from ever Platinum'ing the game. This Mayhem event just started and I'm already seeing the type of negative issues occurring. It really ruins the game!

hafgood

You want Emp? Simple. Get to the top of the leaderboard and then sort out an emp push. Your best bet is to join a guild and to get them to do the push for you. I'd recommend doing this in one of the 7 day campaigns as many will drop out of the campaign once they have had emp.

But its a big fat no to your suggestion. Emp goes to the person top of the leaderboard not the 20th person on the leaderboard because they are the first one that hasn't had it yet

Augustus67

I agree with OP.
Please tell me how the same sweaty try hards can have 5 times the AP of the next nearest player,every campaign.
Maybe if they could only get it once,they might go outside,or work,or do something productive with their lives.

endgamesmug

Back on xbox a few years back i would meet guys that had been up for 26 hours pvping and that wasnt even an event!😆 [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Gederic

Such is the nature of the achievement. You grind to the top and push, you don’t even have to be good. But if it’s just handed out to a person lower and lower on the leaderboard each time, a title that has already lost almost all of its prestige and meaning becomes somehow even worse.

vesselwiththepestle

I have made emp on two different characters. I would find it totally ok if you wouldn't gain AP for the leaderboard as EMP. Playing as EMP is so much fun because of all those buffs, I think it would be nice if more players could experience this. Stopping the AP gain *for the leaderboard* would be a good way of doing this. Other players would still have to do the work and get on top.

Usually, if you get EMP once and you can keep up your playing schedule, you can keep it forever because as EMP you farm AP even faster and easier. So stopping your leaderboard AP gain as EMP would be a minor disadvantage (you have still all the other EMP buffs and you can still farm AP as usual) and other players would have the chance to get on #1.

hafgood

No. The whole point is the person that puts in the most effort gets top of the leaderboard.

If people want Emp they have to put in the effort not [snip] asking for it to be given to them because they are 25th on the leaderboard and everyone above them has had it already.

Sorry, just no.

If this were to be adopted they may as well just sell Emp in the Crown Store.

[edited for baiting]

xFocused

I know in my guild that we were helping numerous guildmates get emp so it wasn't always the same person on top. One would emp, then drop for the next person and repeat.

megasurge93

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I would find it totally ok if you wouldn't gain AP for the leaderboard as EMP. ... Stopping the AP gain *for the leaderboard* would be a good way of doing this. Other players would still have to do the work and get on top.

This sounds like a decent alternative option as well. Thank you for providing another possibility to resolve the issue.

The point I'm trying to make isn't about making getting emperor easier, rather it is about other players who block the mass majority of even having a chance due to boosting and/or simply being selfish and never letting emperor fall into others hands unless they get paid either in-game gold or now with crowns (i.e. extortion). It's not really too difficult to gain AP and stay on the top 10 of the leaderboard, but it becomes impossible as soon as a few work to block others from ever getting it. This isn't a game mechanic, it is an aspect of the game that others manipulate because they can.

hafgood

And the point I'm making is NO.

I've had emp once, I worked for it, yes I'm in a PvP guild which helps but we will help anyone do any emp push. Get to the top of the leaderboard, if you can't do it in one campaign do it in another, get to know other players, they will help you.

neferpitou73

A year or so ago I would've agreed with the people saying work for it.

But the past few months I've seen so much ridiculously AP boosting I agree with OP.

NerfSeige

Nope, half the fun is preventing specific persons from being emperor.

Amottica

hafgood wrote: »

You want Emp? Simple. Get to the top of the leaderboard and then sort out an emp push. Your best bet is to join a guild and to get them to do the push for you. I'd recommend doing this in one of the 7 day campaigns as many will drop out of the campaign once they have had emp.

But its a big fat no to your suggestion. Emp goes to the person top of the leaderboard not the 20th person on the leaderboard because they are the first one that hasn't had it yet

I agree.

Since it is based on who is on top of the leaderboard when the requisite keeps are captured it is clear the title is intended to increase players' activity. So it should remain with the same criteria as we have now.

Kwoung

Amottica wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

You want Emp? Simple. Get to the top of the leaderboard and then sort out an emp push. Your best bet is to join a guild and to get them to do the push for you. I'd recommend doing this in one of the 7 day campaigns as many will drop out of the campaign once they have had emp.

But its a big fat no to your suggestion. Emp goes to the person top of the leaderboard not the 20th person on the leaderboard because they are the first one that hasn't had it yet

I agree.

Since it is based on who is on top of the leaderboard when the requisite keeps are captured it is clear the title is intended to increase players' activity. So it should remain with the same criteria as we have now.

I agree as well. My guild crowned a friend emp last campaign in NA GH 2x, so he got to be emp for like 20 hours. He had a blast, he also started trying for emp about 2 weeks into the campaign, so it isn't impossible to catch up by a long shot. We have never done this before, and probably won't again, as it was quite a bit of work for everyone, but it was definitely hard earned and should remain so.

megasurge93

NerfSeige wrote: »

Nope, half the fun is preventing specific persons from being emperor.

Thank you for this comment because it illustrates one of the exact problems that exist with the current system. The groups or guilds who work to prevent people from being emperor is also the same way they extort players into paying them to get emperor. If you have a group of people who are simply greedy and want gold, then they work against a player because they want you to pay...that's not a game...that's extortion.

megasurge93

neferpitou73 wrote: »

A year or so ago I would've agreed with the people saying work for it.

But the past few months I've seen so much ridiculously AP boosting I agree with OP.

Yes and I think my frustration stems from the last several months with these AP boosters. I know that in the beginning it wasn't like this and it was as simple as working for it. Now, it's like a high school popularity contest mixed with extorted bribes and mechanics manipulation. It is not playing the game.

I see three main issues with the current system that would be good to have thoughtful discussion on how to find a resolve:

1. AP Boosting: players who work with another faction at a keep or resource to simply keep constantly getting AP by attacking one another over and over at the same location. This is broken and ultimately I've seen such people ruin attempting to Emp by doing this. This is not "working for it". This is manipulation of the system and I would say cheating which ruins the game for normal players who choose not to cheat like this.

2. Paying for Emp: groups of players or guilds who work together to thwart all others from getting Emperor, specifically so they can control the top several leaderboard positions and force players to pay them to drop from campaign or else they won't let them.

3. Simply being mean for the sake of it: the same method as noted above is also used to just be mean to people that they don't know or who are not among their group just because they want to be mean on the internet. This can be akin to bullying online.


What might be good solutions to these issues? I think they should be looked at to be fixed.

Also, I should state, that I really don't see any prestige in being Emperor because it's a video game afterall. For me, I would never use the title on any of my characters, nor would I use the outfit. The color that gets unlocked has been obsoleted by other newer colors (imo). Ultimately, it's only 50 achievement points to the total, which is nominal overall. The main thing that is relevant is that it is directly needed to get the Platinum trophy for the game (PSN). Being able to Platinum games seems like something of value in the end.

alberichtano

I would say that a decent solution would be to allow any character to have emperorship once per campaign. Just once ever is too harsh.

I agree with the OP, it is just ridiculous as it is now. Even when I try my hardest, already on the first days the top are at three times what I can make, and well over a million in the leaderboard. And it is often the same few names over and over again. This means that something is broken, I would say.

hafgood

No it doesn't mean anything is broken, it just means some players play more than others. We know some who will play 20 hours a day just to get Emp. Sooner or later they crash and burn and are never seen again.

I don't know if you play NA or EU but whilst I've seen someone demand a million for Emp they were laughed off the server. Honestly the best bet for Emp is now. Go to Evergloam, get the AP and get near the top of the leaderboard as you will then have a decent shout at getting Emp.

And if a guild tries to extort you then find a different guild that won't.

Amottica

megasurge93 wrote: »

NerfSeige wrote: »

Nope, half the fun is preventing specific persons from being emperor.

Thank you for this comment because it illustrates one of the exact problems that exist with the current system. The groups or guilds who work to prevent people from being emperor is also the same way they extort players into paying them to get emperor. If you have a group of people who are simply greedy and want gold, then they work against a player because they want you to pay...that's not a game...that's extortion.

Cyrodiil is somewhat a competition between the alliances based on the three-banner war. With war, sides work against each other but sometimes two sides will work together against another side. This is to be expected and is normal.

It does not mean there is extortion and it would be extremely difficult for one group to control an entire active campaign. They can help or hinder, but not control an active campaign.

megasurge93

alberichtano wrote: »

I would say that a decent solution would be to allow any character to have emperorship once per campaign. Just once ever is too harsh.

I agree with the OP, it is just ridiculous as it is now. Even when I try my hardest, already on the first days the top are at three times what I can make, and well over a million in the leaderboard. And it is often the same few names over and over again. This means that something is broken, I would say.

I like the idea of characters can only emp once per campaign. That seems like it might cut down on some of the negative elements and be less harsh. Sounds like good a compromise and could lesson some of the issues we see.

hafgood

BlackArgonian wrote: »

[snip]

Insulting or what? I would have said the majority are PvErs who joined to do those exact same things.

PvP is no more toxic than PvE its just that everyone shouts more about toxicity in PvP. There are numerous threads about being booted from dungeons and trials and a lot of guild mates have stories about toxicity in dungeons.

I'm still waiting for my 1st salty whispers in PvP and I PvP a reasonable amount.

[edited to remove quote]

BronzeCaiman

hafgood wrote: »

BlackArgonian wrote: »

[snip]

Insulting or what? I would have said the majority are PvErs who joined to do those exact same things.

PvP is no more toxic than PvE its just that everyone shouts more about toxicity in PvP. There are numerous threads about being booted from dungeons and trials and a lot of guild mates have stories about toxicity in dungeons.

I'm still waiting for my 1st salty whispers in PvP and I PvP a reasonable amount.

Here is the difference, in PvE you are working towards a similar goal, in PvP you are trying to win against another player. Buffs and nerfs have a completely different context based on what they are done for. This guy is asking for something that is only logical, giving a title, a furnishing, and an outfit to someone who is clearly trying to get it but can´t. Mostly because organized groups or people who probably account share are not letting him.

And then you have people saying its easier to stay as emperor as emperor and not talking about how rediculous that sounds. I´m here in a 7 day campaign, one player has 6m score while every single other player even remotely close to him across all factions has 3m. If that´s normal, dont be suprised when nobody takes PvP or PvPers seriously.

[edited to remove quote]

hafgood

I'm sorry but he isn't - he is asking for something for nothing. Putting in the time for Emp is the way to get it, don't put in the time don't expect the reward.

In this case he wants to platinum the game on PS. I have platinumed the game and earned every one of my trophies.

No one is entitled to get Emp, no one is entitled to get platinum. You want it, you earn it.

That said, I could get behind the idea that once you have had Emp your score is frozen and, while you can earn AP, it no longer counts towards your leaderboard score. This gives people the opportunity to then get above that player and get Emp by putting in the effort. I would also say that if this was put in place anyone getting Emp should automatically get the top campaign rewards if their alliance wins the campaign

BronzeCaiman

hafgood wrote: »

I'm sorry but he isn't - he is asking for something for nothing. Putting in the time for Emp is the way to get it, don't put in the time don't expect the reward.

In this case he wants to platinum the game on PS. I have platinumed the game and earned every one of my trophies.

No one is entitled to get Emp, no one is entitled to get platinum. You want it, you earn it.

That said, I could get behind the idea that once you have had Emp your score is frozen and, while you can earn AP, it no longer counts towards your leaderboard score. This gives people the opportunity to then get above that player and get Emp by putting in the effort. I would also say that if this was put in place anyone getting Emp should automatically get the top campaign rewards if their alliance wins the campaign

While this sounds good, in actual application it would never work, because then 2 people could just repeatedly pass each other in score until they are leagues above anyone else, which leads to the same problem.

Maybe if you were frozen until the campaign ends that would make it viable, but then it wouldn´t because you would probably be Emperor for 5 minutes, which is what most people want but most people who repeatedly get it don´t want.

Buying Emperor is not really earning it, especially if you just RWT with crown selling to get it. I know several people who have bought emperor for millions of gold. I play on PC EU, the most populated server in the game. I have seen multiple carry sellers in Craglorn shamelessly advertise the sale of Emperor.

Cyrodiil is convoluted, no wonder salvaging it will take over a decade. But congratulations on the platinum trophy.

hafgood

Yeah I meant you are frozen til the end of the campaign.

Sorry but Emp selling appears to be a PC issue. I googled it earlier and the Emp sellers were all PC not console.

The OP plays on console. Really he just needs to put in the time. There are players who don't work, who have disabilities, who are retired, who can play as much as they want. Get to know them, talk to them, join a guild, get to know other players, that is the way to get Emp.

Beardimus

neferpitou73 wrote: »

A year or so ago I would've agreed with the people saying work for it.

But the past few months I've seen so much ridiculously AP boosting I agree with OP.

That's a separate issue tho and one that needs addressing.

AP Boosting IS cheating.

And very different to the top 5 being just folks who can play alot

Syrusthevirus187

Emp should be the highest leaderboard ranked player currently online. Or scrap it completely. Campaigns die when the emp group takes the whole map.

megasurge93

hafgood wrote: »

I could get behind the idea that once you have had Emp your score is frozen and, while you can earn AP, it no longer counts towards your leaderboard score. This gives people the opportunity to then get above that player and get Emp by putting in the effort. I would also say that if this was put in place anyone getting Emp should automatically get the top campaign rewards if their alliance wins the campaign

Yes, this is what I think is a good compromise. I am not asking for something for nothing nor do I think anyone is entitled to Emperor, but everyone should have a fair chance to work to get it without other people blocking that chance month after month. This idea, originally posed by another commenter in this thread seems like a good way to do that.

As an aside, there are definitely people on console "selling Emp" as I have had a couple times people flat out tell me that they won't let anyone have Emperor unless they get paid gold. I have also been offered to have some guild or another work on my behalf to help get Emperor if I pay them. I told them all no because I don't think it's proper to extort people just so they too can enjoy some element of a video game.

On another part mentioned about toxicity, I definitely agree that there is an equal amount of that in PvE and PvP. It's certain people that are toxic repeatedly and tend to be loud about it, not the game itself or the community. Personally, I typically just block those people and things are more quiet in general. However, this is an off-topic subject to the original point.

It sounds like there is some semblance of agreement or compromise about players getting Emperor once per campaign with the caveat that they still get Emperor level end-of-campaign rewards, which totally makes sense to me. This does seem like a plausible way to create a more fair chance for everyone to get Emperor.

hafgood

Sorry but I haven't agreed to once per campaign. All I have agreed to is once a player gets Emp their leaderboard score is frozen. If they are still top becauae no one has overtaken them next time that alliance creates an Emp they get it again.

megasurge93

hafgood wrote: »

Sorry but I haven't agreed to once per campaign. All I have agreed to is once a player gets Emp their leaderboard score is frozen. If they are still top becauae no one has overtaken them next time that alliance creates an Emp they get it again.

Thank you for clarifying. That also seems fine.

Crown

This same discussion happens every few months.

The short version: There are too many scenarios where someone can be crowned when not online, and wouldn't get to enjoy the achievement. A change to the system is seen as needed by most, though the details presented in user-suggested options are rarely viable. The best one that I recall is if the Emperor isn't online, the person in second becomes "regent" with similar bonuses. If that person also isn't online, it goes to third place, and so on.

To help those wanting to understand more about the process:
How to make AP: https://darkelves.com/making-ap/
How to achieve Emperor: https://darkelves.com/achieving-emperor/
Being Emperor: https://darkelves.com/emperor/