PVP Training Dummy. What do people think?

RPGOverlord

Do people think a PVP training Dummy that can be placed in your house/guild house would be useful?

I don't understand why this isn't a thing already? Surely the Dummy could apply the same debuff you get when within cyrodiil once you start to attack it for a minute or two that refreshes with a hit?

I think this would help out a lot of new players looking to get into pvp without getting zerged down or one-shot with a heavy attack to have a good understanding of their own damage output.

You could even do dummies with different thresholds for resistances perhaps?

EF321

As long as it hatewhispers you after you done practicing, sure.

Gederic

I'm not sure what the purpose of this would be. You wouldn't parse on it like a raid dummy. It wouldn't react like a player. The only thing it would do is show you your stats with battle spirit which you could do by entering Cyrodiil. If you want to "practice for pvp" you'd be far better off dueling friends or other players.

What would be a better ask is requesting target dummies be customizable so that you could adjust its various stats, the buffs or debuffs, and add something like battle spirit if you truly wanted that.

Necrotech_Master

i think a pvp dummy would make sense, but i agree it would have to be customizable

it would have basic sliders such as hp and armor, maybe some major/minor buffs that could be added

for pvp your targets are mostly likely in the 20-50k hp range, 20-40k armor which is way different than current dummies

this would allow you to practice burst combos, if you could 1 shot your training dummy with battle spirit active, then you would probably 1 shot most standard players

now actual pvp combat technique like LOS, resource management for heals/dmg and other things, yes that would be much more efficient doing a duel

i think it would be hilarious too if it had some kind of taunting when you either killed it or went out of combat lol

Dojohoda

It would need to hit you back and should include a tree that randomly springs up to block your attacks.

Dummy modes might be useful such as DK foe dummy, Warden ..., etc.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

This stupid dummy wont stop teabagging me!!!

Truthfully, I dont see a PVP dummy being all that useful outside of one with like 30k health and 25k resistances (or something very customizable), and even then, only for working on your gank/burst combo. I dont see them being able to implement a dummy that would meaningfully replicate an actual 1v1 PVP fight.

jaws343

The 300K dummy is pretty much already this. It helps you determine your burst DPS. But, even with a debuffed dummy, you are still not really gaining anything of value from parsing for PVP builds, because parsing doesn't take into account the unpredictable and reactive nature of PVP encounters.

And if all you want to do is gauge burst potential or even just practice your burst rotation, the 300K dummy would work just fine. The # you put up isn't even relevant here. Only that the number of one burst combo is higher than that of another. So there is no real need to do any PVP centric debuff.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

jaws343 wrote: »

The 300K dummy is pretty much already this. It helps you determine your burst DPS. But, even with a debuffed dummy, you are still not really gaining anything of value from parsing for PVP builds, because parsing doesn't take into account the unpredictable and reactive nature of PVP encounters.

And if all you want to do is gauge burst potential or even just practice your burst rotation, the 300K dummy would work just fine. The # you put up isn't even relevant here. Only that the number of one burst combo is higher than that of another. So there is no real need to do any PVP centric debuff.

I have done the same thing on a 3 mil. The DPS is irrelevant, but I use it to practice burst combos. Do your combo, let it reset, then look at the total damage done. Do another combo and compare.

It's not really helpful in knowing how much damage that actually does to a player, but there are so many factors that can affect that vs any given opponent that unless we had a very customizable dummy, you would never really know the ultimate damage number. You can certainly decide how many GCDs your combo is and fairly objectively compare one combo to another, or perhaps fine tune the order of your combo. You can also compare the same combo with multiple gear setups.

Lebkuchen

Customizable dummies would be a great idea, but who would buy all the other dummies in crown store then? Same with mundus stones and the armory system. It would be nice, but it is unlikely to ever happen.

If you are afraid to die, you can always beat up low health dummies like the precursor (clockwork quest) or the poor guy from the 4000 crown vampire furnishing bundle (the one you can use to change your vampire stage).

But as long as the game's performance is getting worse every day you should not think about combos and playing pvp. Just get plaguebreak and convergence, stand somewhere nobody can hit you and bomb. So much fun...

In my opinion the best pvp training would be an experienced duelling partner and trying to play all classes so you understand what's happening in a fight. There is a lot to learn for a new player, but pvp was kind of the endgame before it got neglected and left to die.

TechMaybeHic

Would be cool to have one you could equip sets and adjust stats on to test against. Technically though; probably could do better to just find a friend.

Aldoss

This idea has been floated numerous times and I disagree with anyone saying that this should be solved with dueling only.

There's a time and a place for dueling and not everyone will be successful at recruiting a friend or guild mate to just sit there and be a dummy for 10-20min while you practice combos.

A training dummy is a perfect way for ZOS to start helping players bridge the gap into PVP combat. It gives them time to investigate and appreciate what changes from their tooltips once Battle Spirit gets applied and understand just how impactful their target's resistances are vs their penetration.

This idea shouldn't be nixed just because a dummy doesn't hit you back or because LOS isn't a part of it. Trial dummies don't cast AOEs, yet no one seems to complain about that as being a major flaw in their design. Players still need to learn how to "not stand in stupid" on the fly when they're actually in a group.

I think anything is better than nothing and I'd be fine with a dummy that has a static 25k resistances, but a slider and customizable features would be a HUGE selling point for me. I'd gladly pay 10k+ crowns for something like this.

Wandering_Immigrant

I think definitely a dummy with adjustable sliders for all defensive stats would be a useful tool for helping people understand how stats work. Not only could it be used to help you build offensively and practice combos on, but by mimicking your own defensive stats onto the dummy and, hitting yourself so to speak, you could test attainable changes in your own defense to see what would benefit you the most. It doesn't have to be PvP specific, an on/off switch for battle spirit as part of the adjustable sliders would be ideal.

This would be a huge help for people who prefer playing off-meta but struggle creating their own builds. Though I don't think ZOS would ever offer the level of stat transparency this would create as they seem to want to maintain an air of mystery about things, leaving it instead to the community to breakdown and discuss. This approach clearly isn't working though as they continue to simplify things for the sake of those still struggling to manipulate the build system to their liking. I think most would prefer a complex system with transparency over a simplified system with mystery.

Lebkuchen wrote: »

Customizable dummies would be a great idea, but who would buy all the other dummies in crown store then? Same with mundus stones and the armory system. It would be nice, but it is unlikely to ever happen.

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They would just have to cap the health slider in the hundreds of thousands to make it noncompetitive with current DpS parse dummies.

SimonThesis

Zos would make a fortune off of the pvp community if they had a Pvp training dummy. The dummy would give battle spirit and have 30k hp, 25k armor, and say 3k crit resist. I also think a customizable health bar would work a 15k-50k range would be plenty. The raid one would give common pvp raid buffs and buff sets ex. SPC and SOB. I would buy 12 today even if they were $100 a piece. Then every year I would buy a new set of 12 if they looked even cooler than last years.

@ZOS_Kevin Any chance you could pass this idea along to the Crown store folks?

endgamesmug

I learned pvp the old school way fight outnumbered till i die less and get better, alot spend hours dueling one other person and then complain once in cyrodil about not being able to fight one person at a time. Didnt make alot of sense to me but its what i observed when i was in pvp. Stop worrying about dying its a free port 😀

Aldoss

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

They would just have to cap the health slider in the hundreds of thousands to make it noncompetitive with current DpS parse dummies.

Yup. This.

I currently use my vampiric thrall for this purpose, even though I have other raid dummies. I don't want to run combos on a 21M or 6M dummy. I want to nail down a burst combo and see if I can get my target to execute range.

Vevvev

I'd love to have one. Give it Battle Spirit, 40k HP, and the average self healing and let's goooooo!!!!!

Be great to test out burst combos.

zacvanm

There are always a bunch of PvP dummies dueling around Davon’s Watch and Mournhold..just go stand there and 60 people will want to duel you. Of course that doesn’t transfer much to the zerging nature of Cyrodiil, but at least you’ll know how to do damage and heal and buff..

FluffWit

zacvanm wrote: »

There are always a bunch of PvP dummies dueling around Davon’s Watch and Mournhold..just go stand there and 60 people will want to duel you. Of course that doesn’t transfer much to the zerging nature of Cyrodiil, but at least you’ll know how to do damage and heal and buff..

This is true.

I duel friends or guildies to practice. I don't think a dummy can replace that.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom

Too many variables to make it 100% accurate. Stuns, silence, out of range, line of sight, etc.

Besides, DPS means nothing. You don't stand still parsing in PvP. It's all about burst combos and mitigating damage.

Anyron

If you think PVP is about dps, then you never played it right.

Kwoung

Would it throw up a block, shield, dodge roll or streak you? Would be a great idea if it at least performed the basic actions of a PVP opponent. Maybe make it more like a mini arena with a 12m radius or something it could move around in.

M0ntie

A customisable dummy would be fantastic and not just for PVP!
Then you could set up multiple and practice different situations, like cloud rest portals.
The 21M one is too much for trying out different rotations. I don't want to kill a 21M dummy and then find out that rotation was worse. It takes too much time and too many attempts makes my hands ache.

It would also be great if it could report healing done for healer practice, and also perhaps buffs/debuffs for tank and healer practice. Yes PC players can get some of this, but this would help console players.

Perhaps it could also be made to follow pathing, like house guests do.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

You can also duel your friend or guild mates ^^

It's probably better as they 'hit' back and you can learn how to avoid/mitigate/not die to their certain combos and build up to executes. It's nice to play against a variety of classes.

But yes, a dummy doesn't respond or react to winning or losing, but hey 'team building' is still nice too

Amottica

I do not see how damaging a PvP dummy would be beneficial, especially any more beneficial than damaging the current selection dummies. The only real difference between a PvE and PvP dummy would be the battle spirit which can easily be calculated.

Kalik_Gold

Use the Precursor... learn how to burst.