Pariah, Swift, & Balorgh

MEBengalsFan2001

Been testing using these three sets together with the following.

Race: Dark Elf
Class: Templar

Gear:

3 Heavy Pieces - Balorgh Shoulders with Pariah Chest & Legs all reinforced
3 Light Pieces - Swift Waist, hands and boots all impen
1 Meduim - Balorgh head with well fitted

Jewelry - All infused with spell damage

Primary Weapon of choice is DW hammer or 2h maul for the added pen.
Secondary: Defending Hammer and Reinforced Shield

Attributes: 4 into health the rest into magika

Foods: Sugar skulls

Mundus: Atronach

Primary Skills: Puncturing Sweep, toppling charge, Purifying Light, living dark, and radiant light
Primary Ultimate: Dawn Breaker

Secondary Skills: Honor the Dead , Blinding Flare, Degeneration, channel focus, and extended ritual
Secondary Ultimate: Replenishing Barrier

Standing still unbuffed on the primary bar this build has 4k spell damage, 22k+ physical resistance, 24k+ spell resistance, 10% damage reduction from players, almost 9K+ pen, around 30k health, 30K+ magika, 20K Stamina, 1k+ recovery.


If this build goes down to 30% health and has all buffs up including a 500 ultimate to proc balorgh I get on my primary bar almost 7K spell damage, 20K+ pen, 33K physical resistance and 34K spell resistance and my jabs basically fully heal me and I barely take damage. This seems a bit to OP imo and devs should definitely look into adjusting something here.

Builds still needs some adjustment as it is fun but still it shouldn't be this good in both defensive and offensive IMO.

malistorr

It's widely known templar and probably even dk are way OP right now. The issue is ZOS ignoring it. They either nerfed other classes too much or buffed these too much. Oh well, at least when 90% of PVP land is templars they'll know why.

MEBengalsFan2001

It's not the class but the gear sets that are OP. I used this on my magika warden barely took any damage. The sets here imo are the issue when combined together. Templar just gets a bit more damage buff from minor sorcery and since it is a group buff I don't see that going away any time soon.

malistorr

Well Balorgh doesn't work in no CP where I play and Templar is still over the top OP. So it's not JUST gear sets. I use Pariah, Level 3 vamp, and Gaze and still take lots of damage in no CP as a Stamblade which probably has about the worst healing there is too.

WabanakiWarrior

Yay a build that entirely crutches on Balorghs. So cool.

olsborg

good thing they are actually buffing magplar and magdk next patch /sarcasm

Brrrofski

Versions of this have been going around for a while.

Balorgh, pariah and daedric trickery is a better combo imo.

You can proc the same 5 piece as swift, but also good healing buffs and heroism to get to your 500 ult sooner.

It's great for kiting a group of potatoes and turning on them, but good players will know the strat and just stay away from you after you proc balorgh.

MEBengalsFan2001

malistorr wrote: »

It's widely known templar and probably even dk are way OP right now. The issue is ZOS ignoring it. They either nerfed other classes too much or buffed these too much. Oh well, at least when 90% of PVP land is templars they'll know why.

Everyone says templar are OP, if you are stating that what is it about them that make them OP?

I can see your point on DK, because the power of a DK is that they are able to root you endlessly into place and have you burn away your stamina until they kill you. And while you are trying to get out of their CC effects they are hitting you with dots.

As for seeing templar, I see a variety of classes on NA PS server. Even Wardens though less of them than all other but I still see players using all types of classes.

malistorr wrote: »

Well Balorgh doesn't work in no CP where I play and Templar is still over the top OP. So it's not JUST gear sets. I use Pariah, Level 3 vamp, and Gaze and still take lots of damage in no CP as a Stamblade which probably has about the worst healing there is too.

I find Vampire level 3 with Mist Form to be a bit over powered. You get 75% damage reduction when in mist form and if you are below a certain % of health it raise that damage reduction further.

What makes templar so OP please tell me what makes them so strong you can't kill them.

WabanakiWarrior wrote: »

Yay a build that entirely crutches on Balorghs. So cool.

It isn't all about Balorgh; you can do damage before Balorgh proc. The setup I listed has decent pen, decent base damage, high resistance and good amount of damage reduction. You can throw in almost any monster.

The point I was making about this gear setup is it survivability is a bit over the top.

Brrrofski wrote: »

Versions of this have been going around for a while.

Balorgh, pariah and daedric trickery is a better combo imo.

You can proc the same 5 piece as swift, but also good healing buffs and heroism to get to your 500 ult sooner.

It's great for kiting a group of potatoes and turning on them, but good players will know the strat and just stay away from you after you proc balorgh.

I disagree about using tricky over swift. Swift reduces players damage and I already have flare on my back bar for the major protection that tricky would provide. If I went with tricky that would just allow me to free up using flare as an ability and I would miss out on the additional damage reduction that swift would provide on the back bar.

WabanakiWarrior

Appreciate you defending your build man. But without Balorghs you won't be able to solo kill any decent player. The only pen you have is from weapon passives and what, 3 pieces of light armor? So maybe around 8k? It's just not enough. Not when everyone else is capable of doing the exact same thing you are and running 30k resists.

This build probably does work, but only because of Balorghs. Take it off and you're hitting like a noodle.
This kind of tank set up works for every class because Balorghs carries.

MEBengalsFan2001

WabanakiWarrior wrote: »

Appreciate you defending your build man. But without Balorghs you won't be able to solo kill any decent player. The only pen you have is from weapon passives and what, 3 pieces of light armor? So maybe around 8k? It's just not enough. Not when everyone else is capable of doing the exact same thing you are and running 30k resists.

This build probably does work, but only because of Balorghs. Take it off and you're hitting like a noodle.
This kind of tank set up works for every class because Balorghs carries.

This build doesn't need balorgh to be effective. It just improves the build effectiveness. I've killed players on my healer build with around 6k pen before and less damage than what this build gets without balorgh.

Add level 3 vampire to this build and the damage the player can take before going down increases further. This build is designed around longevity in a fight, not about quickly bursting someone down. If that was the case I would go with Stun and spriggan/spinner for higher pen number along with balorgh.

worrallj

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Been testing using these three sets together with the following.

Race: Dark Elf
Class: Templar

Gear:

3 Heavy Pieces - Balorgh Shoulders with Pariah Chest & Legs all reinforced
3 Light Pieces - Swift Waist, hands and boots all impen
1 Meduim - Balorgh head with well fitted

Jewelry - All infused with spell damage

Primary Weapon of choice is DW hammer or 2h maul for the added pen.
Secondary: Defending Hammer and Reinforced Shield

Attributes: 4 into health the rest into magika

Foods: Sugar skulls

Mundus: Atronach

Primary Skills: Puncturing Sweep, toppling charge, Purifying Light, living dark, and radiant light
Primary Ultimate: Dawn Breaker

Secondary Skills: Honor the Dead , Blinding Flare, Degeneration, channel focus, and extended ritual
Secondary Ultimate: Replenishing Barrier

Standing still unbuffed on the primary bar this build has 4k spell damage, 22k+ physical resistance, 24k+ spell resistance, 10% damage reduction from players, almost 9K+ pen, around 30k health, 30K+ magika, 20K Stamina, 1k+ recovery.


If this build goes down to 30% health and has all buffs up including a 500 ultimate to proc balorgh I get on my primary bar almost 7K spell damage, 20K+ pen, 33K physical resistance and 34K spell resistance and my jabs basically fully heal me and I barely take damage. This seems a bit to OP imo and devs should definitely look into adjusting something here.

Builds still needs some adjustment as it is fun but still it shouldn't be this good in both defensive and offensive IMO.

That's a cool build but it looks a little squishy. Consider adding more armor to boost resistances.

Larcomar

Like others have said, it'll be very strong defensively and, when you've get to 500 ulti, you'll instadelete people. But you've got to get the 500 ulti first. Balorgh just isn't that strong at lower levels of ulti. Depending on how much you want to spend on potions, that's a lot of bunny hopping / running around a tower / jiggling around behind a box to get your twelve seconds of godmode. Personally I find it tedious but then I'm probably just lazy or have a seriously short attention span. YMMV.

The other thing you might just want to consider is that, if you're planning this for cyro, you're basically going to be fighting potatos most of the time. Good players aren't gonna chase you round and feed you ulti until you're ready to kill them. Indeed, I'm not sure there are that many new players around nowadays who are going to be willing to chase you around and feed you ulti. Plenty of casuals, sure, but you see the same names day in day out. Most of them know enough not to chase people in these set ups. You could find yourself starved for business. There were a couple of tower farmers outside Arri last night who looked very bored. Still, MYM's coming up so there should be an influx then.

As to the DK's super OP but nah, templars are fine, "what is it about them that make them OP?" - Come on They have a really strong all round package, I mean, they've got everything. But, in particular I think we'd have to say living dark is wildly overtuned at the moment on defense and purifying light got massively overbuffed on the offense. It's a pretty potent combo. I don't want them nerfed either - I'm levelling up another one right now so I can play red if I want. Taking him out last night though he was chewing through potatos and surviving way longer than he had any right to against decent players. With half his passives missing and wearing odds and sods of gear....

Sneakers

Brrrofski wrote: »

Versions of this have been going around for a while.

Balorgh, pariah and daedric trickery is a better combo imo.

You can proc the same 5 piece as swift, but also good healing buffs and heroism to get to your 500 ult sooner.

It's great for kiting a group of potatoes and turning on them, but good players will know the strat and just stay away from you after you proc balorgh.

Lol...good players will stay away from you? How will a good player stay away from you when you spam them with toppling charge + 60% snaring jabs + the bubble (living dark) who snares 60% as a reactionary proc if anyone dare to stun you or hit you back?

Guess neither class will be OPed when there is only dks and templars running around in Cyro.

/edit

Next patch jabs will get reduced from 60% to 40% but piercing javelin will now ignore blocking. So if you run from a templar in balorgh mode he will meteor you for 25k TT and throw 2-3 spears on you hitting for 4-5k base dmg while you either dodge roll the spears and eat the meteor or even better block for meteor only to get stunned by spears and hit in the head by meteor. Then you get jabbed once more PL explodes for 10k dmg on you and the templar continues to jab or JESUS beam your last 20%.

/edit2

People in this thread doesn't seem to understand the mechanics that make templar and DK so good.

1) DKs dot pressure is so high that it alone saturates peoples healing, then they have leap to animation CC and desynch people with, that allows them to use the whip and cheese people for 10-20k dmg in 2x hits while being UNKILLABLE themselves using coag.

All they really need to do is wait for others to go offensive (coag makes them imp to kill) then they keep the dots up and wait, once enemy trys to turn on the DK they molten them to 70% --> leap and 2x molten to finish 98% of players who are not TRUE tanks.

If enemy never goes offensive then the dots will eventually run them out of sustain and they will be caught in a leap that desynchs + molten molten molten.

Easy access to pressure that saturates HoT while they bide their time with 2x extremely powerful bursts abilities that ALSO in the same GCD animation CCs and causes desynchs (meaning u cant break free until that knockback animation finishes on server side and client side). If you are not pre healed and have hot running you die from this in a build that is not only a troll tank unable to ever kill or threaten the dk in the first place.

2) Templars jabs, are balanced around 20% evasion and 10% cp aoe mitigation, just surviving a templar spamming jabs (nothing else) is difficult for most builds if they DO NOT have those two sources of aoe mitigation and aint a troll tank.

The templar has easy access to minor breach, major breach, balorgh, even stuhn set to melt your resistance to 0. Templars heal while being offensive that saves THEM GCDs and steals GCDs from YOU (while you are on ur back bar they really never have to let go of the gas since even if you start dps on them they will heal and you eventually have to go back on ur backbar for heals).

Toppling charge --> animation de synch CC (after patch they will use piercing javelin, and possibly stampede with 2h maul front and resto back, or stay DW resto and forgo gapcloser since they can just close distance on people with javelin and wait 6s to start dmg run on people trying to flee/disenage --> if you flee you get an unblockable 28m spear in ur head with knockback effect)

Either..way templar deliver pressure from jabs and their constant burning light passive and the game automatically lines up their burst window without effort or any need for timing on their part. Cast PL do dmg ----> profit.

Cast PL
Jabs 2x
Meteor
Javelin 2-3 times
Jesus/jabs
PL detonates

GG

For reference to make it very clear. The two classes that can troll 10-15 people and be "unkillable" while actually taking big damage doing it are dks and templars.

From U31 to U32 burst was nerfed big time when they removed MA 100% crit for 4 seconds set. This was a dream come true for both dks and templars becasue NOW nobody can kill them 1v1 when they are prepared since no amount of DPS can actually overwhelm a them, they are kings of dps and burst.

Necros and wardens and even brawl NBs could when using MA burst down both templars and dks last patch since if built offensive enough you could litterally 1 shot them if they had below 30k hp. That was the only thing actually keeping them honest, they couldnt loiter on 30k hp builds with overwhelming dps and still be safe from a burst attempt - like they can in U32.

xylena_lazarow

Sneakers wrote: »

The two classes that can troll 10-15 people and be "unkillable" while actually taking big damage doing it are dks and templars.

Before the recent DK/Temp buffs and Warden nerfs, you could've said exactly the same thing about Wardens and Necros, and those Necros can still do the same thing, albeit with more micromanagement than DK/Temp. Once upon a time, before the all the tank metas, magsorcs and stamblades were the top solo classes, and players/groups actually died.

MEBengalsFan2001

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Sneakers wrote: »

The two classes that can troll 10-15 people and be "unkillable" while actually taking big damage doing it are dks and templars.

Before the recent DK/Temp buffs and Warden nerfs, you could've said exactly the same thing about Wardens and Necros, and those Necros can still do the same thing, albeit with more micromanagement than DK/Temp. Once upon a time, before the all the tank metas, magsorcs and stamblades were the top solo classes, and players/groups actually died.

Any class can solo a few players if the player knows what they are doing and know how to kite players around obstacles, know how to avoid LOS, get LOS on their target, know how to split up the players so they can kill one than another, etc...

I've seen some great solo NB, Sorc, Nerco, Warden, Templar, & DK. As of right now the best two classes that can easily take on a small group are DK and Templar. However, a 12 man uncoordinated group can have issues with a small four man group of templar, DK, NB and Sorc. I've seen some smaller four man groups of theses classes running well together where players end up not being able to use abilities because of how they can easily desync you and on top of that the player gets stun, rooted, immobilized, stunned again, etc... because of the high amount of desync and CC effects these four classes bring to the table can result in death for most if the not the full 12 man group.

Best way to stop a strong offense is with a superior defense and that is why I presented my build above. In fact, if I wanted to really push the defensive side of this build I would drop balorgh and go with engine guardian, use defensive on my off hand DW mace.

There are many ways to build characters in this game. The options of how we build our characters is what makes ESO so great compared to some other MMO games.

TechMaybeHic

The problem is the stat budgets have too much offense without gear and not enough with actually offensive sets. So you build 2 defense sets and still have damage from your base. Been that way since they shifted the base stats in CP2.0

HiImRex

Brrrofski wrote: »

2) Templars jabs, are balanced around 20% evasion and 10% cp aoe mitigation, just surviving a templar spamming jabs (nothing else) is difficult for most builds if they DO NOT have those two sources of aoe mitigation and aint a troll tank.

The templar has easy access to minor breach, major breach, balorgh, even stuhn set to melt your resistance to 0. Templars heal while being offensive that saves THEM GCDs and steals GCDs from YOU (while you are on ur back bar they really never have to let go of the gas since even if you start dps on them they will heal and you eventually have to go back on ur backbar for heals).

Toppling charge --> animation de synch CC (after patch they will use piercing javelin, and possibly stampede with 2h maul front and resto back, or stay DW resto and forgo gapcloser since they can just close distance on people with javelin and wait 6s to start dmg run on people trying to flee/disenage --> if you flee you get an unblockable 28m spear in ur head with knockback effect)

Either..way templar deliver pressure from jabs and their constant burning light passive and the game automatically lines up their burst window without effort or any need for timing on their part. Cast PL do dmg ----> profit.

Jabs is balanced around its damage being able to be mitigated simply by movement. The damage is channeled and aoe meaning with the game’s positional desync, you can reliably avoid 1-2 out of the 4 ticks of damage simply by moving counter to the Templar trying to jab you. Even missing 1 tick of the jab will push back the burning light tempo, further cutting down in the “theoretical” dps.

So here’s an ability that scales about 50% better than a standard spammable (think surprise attack), but it’s also the only spammable in the game whose damage can be mitigated reliably simply by circle strafing.

But look, I get it. This games pvp is no longer played at a high level. Everyone who cares enough to really master and understand the mechanics have quit playing this game seriously. So maybe zos should balance the game for a more casual playerbase.

Just some things to balance out the perspective a bit.

MEBengalsFan2001

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The problem is the stat budgets have too much offense without gear and not enough with actually offensive sets. So you build 2 defense sets and still have damage from your base. Been that way since they shifted the base stats in CP2.0

Exactly. The build I presented has a resistance of 22k unbuffed and it gets higher as health drops and can easily be increased by dropping sharpened from the offhand weapon to get another 1200 resistance. The build has decent offensive with around 9K offensive pen and 4.3K spell damage unbuffed.

Buffed without balorgh this build damage resistance would be 27-29K, spell damage of 5.6K, pen of 10K and if the build has Dawnbreaker for an ultimate and is used the buff damage would hit 6.2K damage and pen of almost 12K.

High resistance + good offensive stats = longevity and makes combat tedious vs. such builds.

Lately though I've been running Kynmarcher and Swift. My resistance is bit less but I do get debuff on my target and if the fight last longer than 8 seconds they end up with two debuffs. Running with a friend who runs kynmarchers we got 4 of the five debuffs on targets and instead of staying most players run away due to being weaker in damage out and taking much more damage in.

soniku4ikblis

I don't know. I disagree.

Templar is not anymore OP than anyone else. Templar is in a good spot and has its big survivability, just like a Necro or Warden do, just like a Nightblade does with tethers and cloaking and blinks, just like a Sorc with its shields and streaking, and just like a DK with its thousands of heals and roots.

All these classes can tank effectively.

I mean sure, let's just reopen the can of worms about everyone being too tanky to kill 1v1 and they all end in stalemates. It's the gameplay style of ESO PvP. It's vastly different from other games.

Of course unless if you run 8000+ w/s damage and burst your target, or root them to death, or streak and kite with Overpower, blink into Caluruon's broken GCD burst combo, or dark convergence spam ultys, then 1v1 is lopsided and your tanky spec can do nothing but sit on its backbar.

If anyone atm should complain, it's Warden. I never lose battles to a Warden. 1v1 they can last 5+ minutes and if they are wearing enough dots and freezing you they might wear down your rss pools, but they're easy to kite and get away from. I never fight wardens with some sort of scary burst.

If a class has 8k spell damage and some form of high pen, with tons of healing, they are almost like playing 2 people. They can be scary and really annoying.

And that spec can 1vX all day and wipe out the potatoes in a mob.

The only people killing me are 8k damage specs with too much healing and Mist Form.

Desync and lag rear their ugly heads.

I agree that Mist Form is broke. Let's revisit that. Lol.

MEBengalsFan2001

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

Desync and lag rear their ugly heads.

I agree that Mist Form is broke. Let's revisit that. Lol.

Defensive builds are not the problem IMO in PVP. Classes are fairly well balanced in all can do great heals, have great defensives and can flip the tide with the right gear or rotation.

The issues I see making PVP enjoyable are desync and how CC effects and immunity works in this game.

I think something needs to be done to improve both to make PVP more enjoyable, especially in 1v1 situations. Nothing like getting rooted, rooted, slowed, rooted and than being killed because the next CC is a stun and now you have zero stamina to break free or dodge roll.

Minno

The only way to balance pvp would be to lock the mode to pvp sets. Or redo alot of class balance they did.

There was alot more class identity at launch compared to 2017+ eso classes which prompted more compelling pvp interactions.