No CP stamblade brawler

malistorr

Those of us that play no CP are obviously limited a lot in gear selection. I've been playing a stamblade brawler (not bow ganker) type and am finding it difficult to survive if I give up any of Pariah (all armor so running full heavy), Gaze of Sithis, or Level 3 vamp. Even with all 3 of these I get wrecked pretty quickly against good players since NB has really bad healing capability. Based on all this I was wondering what people would suggest for the 1 damage set I can afford? My stam sustain is like 2,600ish and I still find I run out of stam relatively quickly in longer fights whether it's taking a resource or battling players. Also, do you think it's possible to go both damage sets if I stick with vamp level 3 and Gaze and still be able to survive well? if so, what 2 sets would you recommend for damage on a no CP stamblade brawler? Last question, if I'm struggling to have good damage output would going with a few pieces of medium instead of 7 heavy help much? Thanks

baselesschart

Its very possible to go 2x damage sets with vamp 3 and sithis. Unless something changed, this is pretty standard for stamblade pvp. Its not what I would consider a brawler build but its a good setup. If you want to be a brawler I would not recommend running 2 damage sets. I would keep pariah on, you're quite limited in what you can use in no cp but thats okay, just work with the options you do have.

Your sustain is plenty high enough which means its not a build issue and that its a practice issue and you need to address your gameplay accordingly.

Also yeah bad idea running all 7 heavy. You are cutting yourself off from so much damage imo. If you run 2 pariah pieces on the body (big pieces), I'd argue you could get away with just those 2 heavy pieces and the rest medium. Having sithis will compensate for extra resists if you'd like.

malistorr

Thanks I'll have to move the pieces around to get more medium armor. Any suggestions on sets whether 1 or 2?
I was thinking Spriggan's since it has max resource and pen and it could buff any attack. There is also Draugr-Hulk for a lot more max resources. I tried Sword-Singer with only 2H attacks but now want to try other types of skills. Still using Maul currently both front and back.

baselesschart

malistorr wrote: »

Thanks I'll have to move the pieces around to get more medium armor. Any suggestions on sets whether 1 or 2?
I was thinking Spriggan's since it has max resource and pen and it could buff any attack. There is also Draugr-Hulk for a lot more max resources. I tried Sword-Singer with only 2H attacks but now want to try other types of skills.

Spriggans is probably one of your better options. Don't use Draugr-Hulk, building max stam is not a good way to get damage, weapon damage scales a lot better with your offensive ability than max stamina. Sword-singer isn't very good either imo. You won't be using any of 2h abilities besides rally and execute. If I recall, dizzy swing is technically slightly higher tooltip than surprise attack but surprise attack is pretty much superior in every other way.

malistorr

I have been using all 2H skills really but just added Surprise. What other skills do you recommend if I go with a set like Spriggan's? The damage indicated for just about all stamblade class skills seems really low.

baselesschart

malistorr wrote: »

I have been using all 2H skills really but just added Surprise. What other skills do you recommend if I go with a set like Spriggan's? The damage indicated for just about all stamblade class skills seems really low.

Your offensive bar that you will be bursting people down with should consist of an execute (I prefer executioner from 2h), your spammable which in this case would be surprise attack. You could run a gap closer, I don't like them but you could. If not I would run camo hunter for the added crit chance for passively slotting it. Relentless focus is another one of your big burst abilities, just make sure you get 5x light attacks to proc the bow. And rally on your front bar if your front bar is 2h which mine is. For your burst ult, incap for sure, you could make an argument for other ults but incap is still the best option imo.

When you go in for burst, a pretty standard combo would be incap --> relentless proc --> execute (surprise attack if your target isn't in execute range but they should be). Its obviously not necessarily as simple as this but this is the basic idea and you modify it as you need, its situational.

malistorr

I know what Incapacitating Strike is and have it slotted since yesterday due to the stun (I wasn't slotting any stuns).
My problem is Relentless Focus and doing light or heavy attacks on a a stam build in PVP just seems like an almost impossibility. I can't imagine trying to land 5 light attacks in a 1v1 fight and they seem to do so little damage. Either I'm dead way before I'd even be able to do it or it's just too hard to land them. Most players these days are very fast and zip around and I can barely turn around quickly enough to hit them with gap closers and other abilities. I can't imagine having to use light attacks much and heavy attacks are so slow they're almost impossible to land.

On top of that everyone had 30K health and a tanky build. So doing an incap I'd be lucky to do 10k damage. That means they still have 20k left. What exactly would be done after the incap and before Executioner? I'd say Surprise Attack does 5-7k damage at best but it may be much lower with everyone running things like Pariah, Gaze, and Vamp (like me).

baselesschart

malistorr wrote: »

I know what Incapacitating Strike is and have it slotted since yesterday due to the stun (I wasn't slotting any stuns).
My problem is Relentless Focus and doing light or heavy attacks on a a stam build in PVP just seems like an almost impossibility. I can't imagine trying to land 5 light attacks in a 1v1 fight. Either I'm dead way before I'd even be able to do it or it's just too hard to land them. Most players these days are very fast and zip around and I can barely turn around quickly enough to hit them with gap closers and other abilities. I can't imagine having to use light attacks much and heavy attacks are so slow they're almost impossible to land.

On top of that everyone had 30K health and a tanky build. So doing an incap I'd be lucky to do 10k damage. That means they still have 20k left. What exactly would be done after the incap and before Executioner? I'd say Surprise Attack does 5-7k damage at best but it may be much lower with everyone running things like Pariah, Gaze, and Vamp (like me).

You should make it a habit to light attack between every ability when you're offensive, its called light attack weaving and its going to make your combos flow much quicker. So you light attack and then use surprise attack (or any ability) and it will cancel the animation of the light attack and you'll get both the damage of the light attack and surprise attack in a much quicker manner. Not only that, you'll find that you'll have relentless proc up very often. You're only going to be using heavy attacks for sustain pretty much.

Yeah 30k health is the standard in pvp right now. Between incap, relentless, and execute, if all of those land, and they won't always, but if all of them do it should be enough to kill most players. A lot of it is timing because nightblade burst is hard to land on people. Your incaps should be hitting 10k pretty regularly, alongside your relentless procs doing at least 10k on crits as well. 5-7k on your surprise attacks are good numbers, I probably average around 6k but will get like 9k on squish targets.

Metemsycosis

in no cp I just wanna win the pen / resist battle and land some crits and stuns, which nb excels at.

check out heartland conqueror, a good 5 piece set to pair with pariah. i like powered backbar here because pariah and undeath are already so potent together, then either a sharpened or nirnhoned maul front bar depending on desired pen. for some pvp content i prefer dark cloak over invisible cloak but if you go shadowy disguise i highly recommend leveling psijic to 10 and backbarring temporal guard for minor protection. mirage (or shuffle if 5 medium); you should have evasion. there's too much AoE and in cyrodiil you have to find a way to mitigate it. there's also reveal flare which adds an extra 10% mitigation.

3 heavy big pieces and 4 medium pieces seems to hit a sweet spot.

I'd run 4/5 impen and either 2/3 reinforced or 2/3 well-fitted depending on your dodge roll habits. You can still stack PEN, DAMAGE, CRIT, sustain, or raw stats with the shoulder. i prefer some more damage and raw stats in no CP.

all that said -- sometimes the best defense is a good offense. stack damage sets everywhere, maybe even divines, and start hitting harder/faster while relying on shade to get you out of trouble. witch knight front + heartland + skoria 1 pc, with infused back bar bow and berserker enchant will net you huge burst potential.

malistorr

Thanks for those last 2 posts they were helpful. I really wish I could move the bar swap button from the left d-pad to something much easier to press. I'll have to spend time looking at the other controller options for Xbox when I get home. Bar swapping is so awkward as I have to let go of the left thumbstick controller to bar swap and I basically lose movement for long enough to make myself more of an easy target. I wish there was a way to customize the controller when playing on Xbox to exactly the way I want but it's only possible on PC using tools like key mappers etc. From what I remember there are a few preconfigured options for buttons on Xbox and if you don't like any of them too bad. Play the way that's least bad. It's pretty awful and I'm shocked that ZOS/Microsoft would not have more customization for something so basic.

I'll have to spend time practicing my light attack weaving I guess. When I try to do it it always seems to work backwards. I always seem to do the skill 1st and the light attack cancels the skill animation. I don't know if that's something with the way the controls are setup and/or just how my hand tends to press the buttons but I'll need to work on fixing that.

I already have the Sharpened maul and would love to stack more pen by using the Lover Mundus for example but I find that I never have enough recovery so I'm using Serpent Mundus. I can't imagine having less max stam or stam recovery than I do now because it already seems like I never have enough. Vamp level 3 isn't great for ability cost as I'm sure you know.

Bottom line is I just need a lot of practice. NB is a new class for me and I find myself in fights not being able to finish people off. I need to get better at light attack weaving and knowing and executing a burst/kill combo or I should find another way to play.

I'm just now about to test more of a ganker build. What do you think about a bow/bow build using ring of the wild hunt (to move in and out of fights quickly before getting killed), Marksman's Crest and Hawk's Eye sets (both double-barred) for lower cost abilities and boosted bow damage, and maybe a 1-piece pen monster set item? Serpent mundus and all robust and weapon damage on the jewelry. I was hoping something like this would be about the best I could do for an archer build in no CP since most sets don't work. Since I'd be fast I may go all well-fitted on the armor. I was even thinking of getting rid of vamp to help with sustain and maybe I could go lover mundus but at only about 20K health (all stam) I'm afraid to give up Undeath. I will already be giving up Pariah, Gaze, any heavy armor and my impen and reinforced so this will be pretty glass cannon. I was also going to use a morph of Mesmerize if someone gets close to me so I can escape using my speed since it seems to be the longest stun available to a nightblade (or maybe any class).

McTaterskins

No CP? - Titanborn or Sprig, Pariah, Sithis, 1pc Magma Incarnate, Balorgh, Domi/Swarm, or Kragh/Valkyn
CP? Titanborn or Stuhns


Heavy Head(sithis), Chest(Pariah), Legs(Pariah)
Medium Boots, Shoulders, Gloves
Light belt

Maul Front - sharpened / Potentates Bow back - defending or powered (get speed with rolls)
Chest reinforced, the rest all well fitted or mix impen/well fitted
Pariah Jewelry, at least 2 swift.

Use mirage. (extra defense - armor and major evasion is clutch)
Use Rally. (stam heal, pre buff, minor stam recovery buff)
Use Mark. (extra pen, free, spammable on other nb's if you use the anti-stealth morph)

Keep rally up. Use for burst heal before bar swap. Swap, vigor, roll.
If using Dark Cloak use it simultaneously with vigor and it is strong. Not as strong as Plar Bubble + HoTs/Bursts or Intensive Mender + regen + rf, or whatever the h-e-double-hockey-sticks is going on with DKs etc., but it's pretty good.

malistorr

Thanks Tater I actually am using those skills although I was using Forward Momentum (for snare removal/immunity). Do you really think rally is better? And if so how would I remove snares and/or get immunity without having to run expensive pots in advance that only last for about 10-seconds? It seems like every fight someone is trying to freeze me in place and often does, sometime for seconds at a time.

Kaysha

Tatterskins proposal is pretty on spot. Although I probably would use New Moon instead of Sprig for better heals.
You should learn to use shade. It will remove half of your problems with snares.
Dodgeroll into vigor on bow-bar is also helpfull against snares. And learn to run through your opponent the moment they want to hit you. You can avoid a lot of damage just by sticking close to your opponent and make a step behind them in the right moment. This will also work while being snared. Small steps can make a big difference.

And you could use Markyn Ring instaed of Sithis. This would pair well with Sprig frontbar (no New Moon then) and 3 piece agility back bar + Pariah (or other def set). And you could swap Markyn for Wild Hunt when ever you like without the need to change anything else.

malistorr

I play no CP and I don't think Markyn ring works there. I wouldn't want New Moon because I think having pen and max resources would be better, at least in no CP since recovery is bad and stamblade doesn't have great sources of pen (other than sharpened maul and maybe lover mundus (but I'm using serpent for recovery)). And with vamp level 3 also having another cost increase in New Moon won't work. Sustain is already/always an issue. I'll look into back-barring 3-piece agility though. Thank you. I did something similar on my magsorc with the Grace set and/or Willpower.

Kaysha

Markyn works in No Cp. I also play No Cp.

malistorr

Ah yes I see it now. 1 list has it and 1 doesn't. Seems like Gaze might be a bit better but it's close. Gaze for defensive and Mark ring for a mix of O and D.

Kaysha

If you block at least sometimes, Markyn has the better defence, too.

baselesschart

malistorr wrote: »

Ah yes I see it now. 1 list has it and 1 doesn't. Seems like Gaze might be a bit better but it's close. Gaze for defensive and Mark ring for a mix of O and D.

I would recommend sithis over markyn for nightblade, just one of those classes where I feel sithis is going to synergize better. You will want to be able to hit that 30k health threshold, I would not recommend having under 30k health. As a nightblade you won't be blocking to mitigate damage rather to animation cancel abilities which can mean life or death in certain situations.

malistorr

Thanks for the replies. Does anyone have any feedback on the gank build/idea?

baselesschart

malistorr wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. Does anyone have any feedback on the gank build/idea?

I'll offer some feedback on the ganking build. You only need a single bow bar if you're going to do a bow gank build. You will want 2h on the other bar for rally to get your major brutality. Think of your 2h bar as your buff bar. Drop serpent, and go for lover/warrior depending on your needs, I always go lover personally. You won't be needing sustain in a gank build because you'll be dead if someone catches you anyway. Your goal is to be in and out, pop out of stealth, kill someone and then go back to the shadows. Also transmute your jewelry into infused, your weapon damage glyphs on them will be much stronger. No well-fitted honestly, I recommend all divines, its going to boost your damage output significantly. Keep vamp, the strike from the shadows passive will help with ganking. Its okay to be glass cannon, thats what a ganker is.

malistorr

Thanks you bring up good points. I should be able to run enough without draining my stamina all the way just from some skills. I thought about going all divines but didn't. I guess I'll do it and go lover which is the best offensive mundus for most situations. Now I need 500 transmute crystals lol. That will take a while even with earning at least 24 almost every day from doing the 2 daily randoms (1 for each of my 2 toons) and 4 or more from PVP with the stamblade. I'll get 150 at the end of the campaign as well which will help. Maybe before the end of Feb. I can have it done if I play enough. I guess people will have fun killing me a lot until I get everything set and maybe even after while I learn how to play this way.

Dorkener

Yeah have fun in ful divines. See you in a month making "detect pots are BS" posts

Kartalin

malistorr wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. Does anyone have any feedback on the gank build/idea?

For no proc gear I think Spriggan, 3 trainee, 3 wrath of the imperium, and markyn ring of majesty would be interesting.

edit: fixed some errors

BazOfWar

The trouble with nightblade is we have to build for damage to be able to burst down these tank meta templars, dks and wardens. This comes at a cost of being overly squishy, I have spent a lot of gold on trying different set combinations and if i put on 1 defensive set I hit like a wet noodle.

Other classes such as dks and templars can build defensively yet still get damage gifted to them.

malistorr

Yes War you are right. And anyone looking at the game (PVP) objectively knows this. That's why there are so many Templars and DKs now. Who knows, if i get tired of not being competitive I may level a DK or Templar myself. ZOS made it so people have to or they just die a lot. The only other option is just play when there is a big group for your faction and run around zerging keeps for AP but more serious and dedicated PVPers play for more than that.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Tried out brawler stamblade first time today. Pretty much invincible in 1v1, but then again so is everyone else. Idk if this playstyle is for me because every single fight turns into a stalemate. At least when I was ganking one of us would die. I am experiencing first hand what I used to always watch from stealth. Never ending fights.

gariondavey

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Tried out brawler stamblade first time today. Pretty much invincible in 1v1, but then again so is everyone else. Idk if this playstyle is for me because every single fight turns into a stalemate. At least when I was ganking one of us would die. I am experiencing first hand what I used to always watch from stealth. Never ending fights.

I went into no cp ic last night to try out a gank build as my stygian+selenes+caluurian cp build doesn't work there.

Used sword singer stuff I've had gathering dust on ring + neck + helm + 2h nirn greatsword. Wild hunt ring. 1 bloodspawn shoulder (magma in medium would be better but I don't have it in medium. Need 7 medium for this set up). Crafted red eagle body.
Crit damage mundas, jewels of misrule.
8k wd (not including 600 and 463). All infused wd enchants, all tri stat enchants, stage 2 vamp with sated frenzy.
Onslaught + relentless proc/executioner for absurd amounts of damage. Was able to kill the dang tanky dks thanks to onslaught.
Dizzy slaps, rally heals up the wazoo.
It is a gank set up but I think with a few skill changes you could run this as a no cp brawler.

Up to 6k stones ganking people in a zerg and fighting 2-3 v 1. Died, lost 3k. Died again, lost 1.5k. Played better, ended with 13.8k and was getting nervous evading the other nbs who were hunting me due to the big haul I was holding, lol. Ported out!

Exe, dizzy, sated frenzy, relentless focus, camo hunter, onslaught
Channeled acceleration, cloak, vigor, rally, siphoning strikes (nb stam sustain skill, I think that's the name at least), and undo/soul tether

baselesschart

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Tried out brawler stamblade first time today. Pretty much invincible in 1v1, but then again so is everyone else. Idk if this playstyle is for me because every single fight turns into a stalemate. At least when I was ganking one of us would die. I am experiencing first hand what I used to always watch from stealth. Never ending fights.

I've been on the other end of those fights. I've fought brawlerblades that were tanky af, but to get to where they were, they gave up enough damage where I felt they weren't going to burst me down unless I let them.

mariuszeb17_ESO5

"what 2 sets would you recommend for damage on a no CP stamblade brawler?" - Whatever you choose, you will still be destroyed by the DK and the magTemplar. ZOS took care of it.

malistorr

I agree with both of the last 2 comments. My tanky stamblade can't do enough damage to win 1vs1 fights with other good players, especially if they are DK or Templar. (I'm no CP only) I'm sure if I was a better player I would do better. (common sense right?) But it just doesn't feel like a fair fight. I just look at the damage that nightblade skills do and they seem pretty pathetic actually. I don't even want to use them and don't really. 2H skills are way better and probably even DW as well. Healing is lacking on this class also so it just feels like everything is worse. I've even tried a ganker build now and while it could be fun if I had a good group to follow around constantly that could protect me, going around solo is pretty dangerous. And I feel like I can't/shouldn't even try to capture a resource anymore because I don't have much health or defense. Bow damage isn't good enough to take out players or even NPCs at keeps and resources fast enough to make up for the glass-cannon type setup. I think I'm about ready to give up on this class. Maybe some day they'll rework some of the skills to make it a bit more competitive. I know that what I'm saying is 100% true because other good players know who I am now and know I'm a nightblade and come at me specifically because of that. That is NOT class balance.

baselesschart

malistorr wrote: »

I agree with both of the last 2 comments. My tanky stamblade can't do enough damage to win 1vs1 fights with other good players, especially if they are DK or Templar. (I'm no CP only) I'm sure if I was a better player I would do better. (common sense right?) But it just doesn't feel like a fair fight. I just look at the damage that nightblade skills do and they seem pretty pathetic actually. I don't even want to use them and don't really. 2H skills are way better and probably even DW as well. Healing is lacking on this class also so it just feels like everything is worse. I've even tried a ganker build now and while it could be fun if I had a good group to follow around constantly that could protect me, going around solo is pretty dangerous. And I feel like I can't/shouldn't even try to capture a resource anymore because I don't have much health or defense. Bow damage isn't good enough to take out players or even NPCs at keeps and resources fast enough to make up for the glass-cannon type setup. I think I'm about ready to give up on this class. Maybe some day they'll rework some of the skills to make it a bit more competitive. I know that what I'm saying is 100% true because other good players know who I am now and know I'm a nightblade and come at me specifically because of that. That is NOT class balance.

Your offensive class abilities that you use (surprise attack, relentless, incap) should be doing big damage. Since they are not could suggest a number of problems. Could be a build problem, bad combos, or you're just attacking the wrong targets. Some people build stupid tanky and you won't be able to do anything to them single handedly.