Jumping

Bosco916

Jumping should drain stamina. Just my opinion. I think it would drastically improve pvp combat. Not to mention I would appreciate not seeing people jumping around in combat all the time. I mean, who ever fought like that irl? Looks silly.

xDeusEJRx

You think it would improve pvp combat? How so?

VaranisArano

If you want jump to cost something, I think it's only fair that jumping gets some proper buffs.

vesselwiththepestle

Bosco916 wrote: »

Jumping should drain stamina. Just my opinion. I think it would drastically improve pvp combat. Not to mention I would appreciate not seeing people jumping around in combat all the time. I mean, who ever fought like that irl? Looks silly.

In one of my pvp raid groups, we have a simple rule: If there is a jumper, we kill them first! This way we all together know who is the target and we have our damage focused on it, without having to call it out. Those players jumping all the time make themselves a clearly visible target, easy to pick out of a group. You might try to recommend that rule to your pvp groups, too. Usually it's Sorcs, though, so you need to have some ranged root and/or stun to get them, usually, and some ranged damage is helpful. Although it's often funny enough to see how those perma jumpers are suddenly streaking away, showing they don't want to actually fight, but just taunt and bait.

SkaraMinoc

ZOS needs to fix the steps and stairs that must be jumped over before requiring stamina cost.

EF321

Jumping is a core mechanic of ton of games I've been playing in the past, like Quake, Unreal Tournament, Tribes, Natural Selection and all their sequels - NOT jumping in these is a suicide and putting yourself at significant disadvantage. It was very meta in Battlefield 3 to avoid enemy fire and in earlier versions of Counter-Strike mod to get in position quickly. Jumping and wallrunning were key moves to not get lightsaber in your face in Jedi Outcast/Academy duels. In my last playthrough of Morrowind I moved around exclusively by jumping. Likewise in Heroes of the Storm there is no jumping, but repositioning a tiny amount after every single action is a must to not die easily, which in essense is the same thing as jumping. As long there is no downside to jumping and only benefits, there is no reason not to jump. What else am I going to use my thumb for anyway?


And yet, turns out there are entire groups of people, who are mad at the way games were played for decades.

ESO_Nightingale

nope.

Soraka

But sometimes the song I'm listening to is so catchy I have to jump 🥺

EF321

Soraka wrote: »

But sometimes the song I'm listening to is so catchy I have to jump 🥺

Then you MUST die. As you can see from above, it is a personal challenge for some, they will go out of the way to stop someone having a good time, being in good mood, or just an oldschool gamer. It is absolutely INFURIATING, nobody jumps in MY game.

mocap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=010KyIQjkTk

Larcomar

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

In one of my pvp raid groups, we have a simple rule: If there is a jumper, we kill them first! This way we all together know who is the target and we have our damage focused on it, without having to call it out. Those players jumping all the time make themselves a clearly visible target, easy to pick out of a group. You might try to recommend that rule to your pvp groups, too.

That is such a good idea on so many leavels that I'm going to do precisely that

rbfrgsp

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

see how those perma jumpers are suddenly streaking away, showing they don't want to actually fight, but just taunt and bait.

Taunt skills don't work in PvP against human players who have the illusion of free will. Bunny hopping, as you have noticed, is how turtle tanks, tower farmers, and other troll builds goad people into attacking them. So going on the psychology that a bunny hopper is saying "come fight/chase me", I usually ignore them. They're either buffed to the visor and will turtle, or plan to streak away until you're out of stamina then zap you. Kill their friends and use knockbacks on them so they feel silly when they fall off their rock.

xFocused

It is annoying, absolutely but my guild can't help but laugh at the jumpers these days. We usually target them first because that's how you know who the sweaty/try hard players are, the ones bunny hopping it's a Call of Duty match, lol.

xDeusEJRx

Original poster asking for jumping to get nerfed and claims it will improve pvp combat and didn't even explain why? Just seems like a needless call to action to nerf something

HiImRex

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Original poster asking for jumping to get nerfed and claims it will improve pvp combat and didn't even explain why? Just seems like a needless call to action to nerf something

It ruins immersion because jumping has never been a core part of the Elder Scrolls series

Vevvev

HiImRex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Original poster asking for jumping to get nerfed and claims it will improve pvp combat and didn't even explain why? Just seems like a needless call to action to nerf something

It ruins immersion because jumping has never been a core part of the Elder Scrolls series

Looks at Oblivion and Morrowind.

Riiiiight, so that whole strategy of getting your jumping so high you could jump off water in Oblivion, so you could scale the whole Telvanni Tower in a single bound in Morrowind, and to get through certain puzzles and fights in both games was not a core feature?

colossalvoids

HiImRex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Original poster asking for jumping to get nerfed and claims it will improve pvp combat and didn't even explain why? Just seems like a needless call to action to nerf something

It ruins immersion because jumping has never been a core part of the Elder Scrolls series

Lmao sorry but have you played morrowind or oblivion? Acrobatics existed back then and jumping was a thing, I'd even say most players moved by jumping even to level those. Kinda silly arguments anyways as it's a completely different game here, jumping is not breaking anything in a slightest.

xDeusEJRx

HiImRex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Original poster asking for jumping to get nerfed and claims it will improve pvp combat and didn't even explain why? Just seems like a needless call to action to nerf something

It ruins immersion because jumping has never been a core part of the Elder Scrolls series

That's the beauty of playing a fantasy mmo you have the ability to freely do what you want. Also Jumping is not a core part of this game. What does jumping add to game mechanics here that warrants it needing a stamina drain even though no other elder scrolls game does that

VaranisArano

In line with the above posters, some of y'all need to replay Morrowind and Oblivion. Both games had Fatigue (replaced by stamina in Skyrim), which was drained by jumping, attacking, etc.

That picture I posted of jumping in past games vs ESO isn't entirely a joke.

Morrowind and Oblivion had a fatigue cost to jumping because jumping was a core game mechanic. You got a substantial benefit from improving your ability to jump via Acrobatics, like reducing fall damage.


Now, you are right that jumping isn't a core mechanic in ESO. Or Skyrim, since ESO shares most of its simplifications with Skyrim.

ESO has very little benefit to jumping. There's no "skill" to improve jumping either. Unlike block, bash, or dodge, it's not like you can plug in CP to get better at jumping or wear sets that proc from jumping.


So I'd say it's fairly simple:

If the OP wants jumping to cost stamina, then jumping needs to embrace its Elder Scrolls roots in Acrobatics. If it's going to cost stamina like a core game mechanic, then it needs to actually BE a core game mechanic. We should be able to jump higher, farther, and take less fall damage. We need CP and sets that boost or even proc from jumping.

Or, maybe, we don't. We stick with boring jumping that doesn't break ZOS's level designs and that doesn't cost stamina either.

I know which one I think is more likely.

EF321

HiImRex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Original poster asking for jumping to get nerfed and claims it will improve pvp combat and didn't even explain why? Just seems like a needless call to action to nerf something

It ruins immersion because jumping has never been a core part of the Elder Scrolls series

It very much was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5DxWbLWgEQ

Bosco916

EF321 wrote: »

Jumping is a core mechanic of ton of games I've been playing in the past, like Quake, Unreal Tournament, Tribes, Natural Selection and all their sequels - NOT jumping in these is a suicide and putting yourself at significant disadvantage. It was very meta in Battlefield 3 to avoid enemy fire and in earlier versions of Counter-Strike mod to get in position quickly. Jumping and wallrunning were key moves to not get lightsaber in your face in Jedi Outcast/Academy duels. In my last playthrough of Morrowind I moved around exclusively by jumping. Likewise in Heroes of the Storm there is no jumping, but repositioning a tiny amount after every single action is a must to not die easily, which in essense is the same thing as jumping. As long there is no downside to jumping and only benefits, there is no reason not to jump. What else am I going to use my thumb for anyway?


And yet, turns out there are entire groups of people, who are mad at the way games were played for decades.

In The Witcher 3: The Wild Hunt, jumping costs stamina...

EF321

Bosco916 wrote: »

In The Witcher 3: The Wild Hunt, jumping costs stamina...

Doesn't mean it is a good thing?

TiberX

NONONONONO!
no no no no no! @Nefas style
This is a MMO Skyrim, Oblivion,Morrowind are single player games.
u can unleash chaos here if u let player climb like that or jump.
Imagine jumping like in Morrowind in PVP lol.

NordSwordnBoard

If you "took jumping away" via stamina cost - don't be surprised to find yourself following the same players onto terrain that requires jumping to pursue, and then find you suddenly have no stam to break free when they LoS then double back to stun and Ulti dump you.

Vicious Death, Dark Convergence, Jumpings - Many people think about it one dimensional, only how they intend to use it to face their nemesis and not how it may be used on them. This is simple Sun-Tzu kind of stuff.

MEBengalsFan2001

VaranisArano wrote: »

In line with the above posters, some of y'all need to replay Morrowind and Oblivion. Both games had Fatigue (replaced by stamina in Skyrim), which was drained by jumping, attacking, etc.

That picture I posted of jumping in past games vs ESO isn't entirely a joke.

Morrowind and Oblivion had a fatigue cost to jumping because jumping was a core game mechanic. You got a substantial benefit from improving your ability to jump via Acrobatics, like reducing fall damage.


Now, you are right that jumping isn't a core mechanic in ESO. Or Skyrim, since ESO shares most of its simplifications with Skyrim.

ESO has very little benefit to jumping. There's no "skill" to improve jumping either. Unlike block, bash, or dodge, it's not like you can plug in CP to get better at jumping or wear sets that proc from jumping.


So I'd say it's fairly simple:

If the OP wants jumping to cost stamina, then jumping needs to embrace its Elder Scrolls roots in Acrobatics. If it's going to cost stamina like a core game mechanic, then it needs to actually BE a core game mechanic. We should be able to jump higher, farther, and take less fall damage. We need CP and sets that boost or even proc from jumping.

Or, maybe, we don't. We stick with boring jumping that doesn't break ZOS's level designs and that doesn't cost stamina either.

I know which one I think is more likely.

Add a stamina cost to jumping. Add some CP say 30 to reduce the cost of jumping and increase how high you can jump. Than add gear sets or further expansion on CP to allow for one free jump every 20 or 30 seconds.

Bosco916

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Original poster asking for jumping to get nerfed and claims it will improve pvp combat and didn't even explain why? Just seems like a needless call to action to nerf something

It doesn’t make sense that jumping doesn’t cost stamina in this game. I would imagine that every time a player presses a button to jump, that prompts the program to run code for that action. Hence, all these players continually jumping with no drawbacks is putting needless strain on the process and likely bogging it down. Therefore, I’d imagine ensuring that an action be used more conservatively than liberally would drastically improve the overall experience.

xDeusEJRx

Bosco916 wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Original poster asking for jumping to get nerfed and claims it will improve pvp combat and didn't even explain why? Just seems like a needless call to action to nerf something

It doesn’t make sense that jumping doesn’t cost stamina in this game. I would imagine that every time a player presses a button to jump, that prompts the program to run code for that action. Hence, all these players continually jumping with no drawbacks is putting needless strain on the process and likely bogging it down. Therefore, I’d imagine ensuring that an action be used more conservatively than liberally would drastically improve the overall experience.

Don't imagine that will realistically improve pvp at all though. What I can imagine happening is, casuals panic jumping when put into situations or forced into situations where they have to jump terrain and wasting excess stamina needlessly and then people abusing their empty stam pools to kill them when they can't do any break frees.

Extinct_Solo_Player

HiImRex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Original poster asking for jumping to get nerfed and claims it will improve pvp combat and didn't even explain why? Just seems like a needless call to action to nerf something

It ruins immersion because jumping has never been a core part of the Elder Scrolls series

You are not a true elder scrolls player then, clearly.

PvP_Exploiter

Would drastically diminish PvP.

Larcomar

Bosco916 wrote: »

Jumping should drain stamina. Just my opinion. I think it would drastically improve pvp combat. Not to mention I would appreciate not seeing people jumping around in combat all the time. I mean, who ever fought like that irl? Looks silly.

I'm gonna have to agree with others here that introducing a stamina cost for jumping would have a massive and detrimental impact on the game. There are an awful lot of steps, small ledges and little mounds in this game which - for reasons that escape me - my ****wit of a character is singularly incapable of dealing with without jumping. Several times usually. Seriously, he's a former emp, slayer of molag bal and he hasn't learned how to take a step?

There's other possibilities though. A while back, someone suggested a new set for the game with a 5 piece bonus that instantly vaporised anyone who crouched up and down more than a couple of times in a certain radius. How about a new set with a 5 piece bonus that instantly vaporises any player within a 28m radius who jumps in two consecutive gcds. No cool down, no limits on targets.

Personally, though, I'd like to see zos inject a bit more humour into pvp. It's already a bit of a joke but it could use some new material. So for bonus points, why not have one of say, five random effects like
- the player is instantly vaporised and turned into a bad smell in the basement
- the player's transformed into a pink bunny rabbit with overlay large ears and zero stamina
- molag bal pops up and smites the player with a seriously enormous comedy hammer
- the player's instantly catapulted to that annoying public dungeon in cold harbor and has to find their own way out
- a dark convergence bubble spawns on top of the player. And keeps spawning. For ever.... Ok, maybe a minute?

In the meantime, target the bunny hopper first....

EF321

This is how you react:


To basically this:

Soraka wrote: »

But sometimes the song I'm listening to is so catchy I have to jump 🥺