Mirri Elendis some incoherent behavior

Scaletho

First of all, this it just my opinion. I understand that Companion behavior has its pros and cons, and this is part of the system's immersion.

But I have some doubts about Mirri Elendis behavior, mainly about some of the Negative Rapports.

Mirri is a Nightblade, and a Dunmer. Dunmers are hardened warriors, and not shy of some level of violence. I understand that Mirri is a kind of explorer and don't like crime around her.

But I think it is very weird her dislike specifically Dark Brotherhood. It's ok if she don't like to be part of unfair crimes (innocent people or animals been killed), but the inclusion of Dark Brotherhood is very disappointing imho.

Bastion Hallix is a "honored" Imperial, and he simply doesn't care if I go to Dark Brotherhood lair! If HE was the Companion who disliked DB it will be more credible.

Another weird point is BUGS. Mirri doesn't like we take... BUGS??? I mean, she's also a dunmer and hates it when we hurt bugs....while talking about eating some kinds of them!!!

Anyway, I think Companion's Raports and behavior deserves to be reviewed and polished. But as I said, its just my perception. Perhaps other Companions will arrives and we will have better options in the future.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

There's a difference between beeing okay with some stealing and being part of a murder cult and murdering people with a blade that sends people to the Void. Although, Bastian should really be against visiting the Sanctuary as well.

Mirri likes "cute" bugs. Like butterflies and torchbugs. She don't care about the "ugly" ones.

VaranisArano

Remember Mirri's introductory quest?

She's got good reasons for not being okay with the sort of people who sacrifice others and deprive them of their desired afterlife. It nearly happened to her, her brother, and their friends. Different cult; same idea. Also, she's a Daedrologist. That means she studies cults. She doesn't join them.

Also, yes, Mirri's a Dunmer.

The Dunmer ready have a legal Assasins' Guild. The OG Morag Tong, in fact, of which the Dark Brotherhood is a heretical offshoot. So while the DB has plenty of Dunmer members, most Dunmer are going to prefer the Morag Tong.

So, no, I don't find it very surprising that she's not okay with an illegal death cult that sends people's souls to Sithis.

perfiction

I mean, their soul is fine, otherwise they wouldn't resurrect after few minutes... Mirri's clearly overreacting

Ghanima_Atreides

The Dark Brotherhood are assassins; they don't care whether someone is innocent or not before killing them, so if Mirri isn't OK with crime, it kind of follows that she wouldn't be OK with murder-for-hire.

Scaletho

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

The Dark Brotherhood are assassins; they don't care whether someone is innocent or not before killing them, so if Mirri isn't OK with crime, it kind of follows that she wouldn't be OK with murder-for-hire.

Yeah, Dark Brotherhood are assassins. But they kill only within contracts. I understand the argument, but if morality is the point Bastion should also dislike DB.

Ghanima_Atreides

Scaletho wrote: »

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

The Dark Brotherhood are assassins; they don't care whether someone is innocent or not before killing them, so if Mirri isn't OK with crime, it kind of follows that she wouldn't be OK with murder-for-hire.

Yeah, Dark Brotherhood are assassins. But they kill only within contracts. I understand the argument, but if morality is the point Bastion should also dislike DB.

He does. He loses rapport if you use the Blade of Woe on people and generally kill friendly NPCs. IDK why he doesn't mind you going into the Sanctuary, sounds like an oversight.

RicAlmighty

Anyway, I think Companion's Raports and behavior deserves to be reviewed and polished

No, actually they don't, they're fine as is. Just because you disagree with a decision doesn't mean it needs to be "reviewed" or "polished"

spartaxoxo

Mirri's opposition to the Dark Brotherhood makes perfect lore sense, and she articulates why she hates them pretty well.

"The Morag Tong are bad enough, but at least they don't kill for fun!"

It's not on the Wiki but she also complains about the Blade of Woe because "It doesn't just kill them it also attacks their souls" or something like that.

Bastian largely doesn't comment on places he dislikes visiting, moreso on people he don't like. So he has no comment on you going to the Sanctuary, but hates if you kill an innocent with the Blade of Woe.

AcadianPaladin

For starters, I'd like to see things that decrease rapport be changed to actions that are conscious choices by players - not accidently picking up an iron dagger instead of talking to an NPC. Or killing some critter in the middle of a big fight. Or grabbing a butterfly/torchbug instead of your intended resource node.

Scaletho

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Mirri's opposition to the Dark Brotherhood makes perfect lore sense, and she articulates why she hates them pretty well.

"The Morag Tong are bad enough, but at least they don't kill for fun!"

Dark Brotherhood don't kill for fun. They have contracts. Morag Tong have a bureaucratic system, deeply linked to Dunmer Houses which they depend on to survive. DB is free from allegiances. Perhaps this is why many ppl think DB deserves a harsh moral criticism. Regarding cold assassinations, I see both DB and MT as equals.

And Bastion "blasé" attitude doesn't explain well his supposed hidden disdain of DB. I still see a problem here.

But I also see that such debate will go on and on. As I said, I think the rapport system could be upgraded but it's just an opinion.

spartaxoxo

Scaletho wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Mirri's opposition to the Dark Brotherhood makes perfect lore sense, and she articulates why she hates them pretty well.

"The Morag Tong are bad enough, but at least they don't kill for fun!"

Dark Brotherhood don't kill for fun. They have contracts. Morag Tong have a bureaucratic system, deeply linked to Dunmer Houses which they depend on to survive. DB is free from allegiances. Perhaps this is why many ppl think DB deserves a harsh moral criticism. Regarding cold assassinations, I see both DB and MT as equals.

And Bastion "blasé" attitude doesn't explain well his supposed hidden disdain of DB. I still see a problem here.

But I also see that such debate will go on and on. As I said, I think the rapport system could be upgraded but it's just an opinion.

They have contracts but they absolutely kill for fun. They relish in it and worship murder.

They should probably give him a voiceline commenting about the people he dislikes there, but he don't mind dark places it's the people inside them he hates. So the comment should reflect that.

SammyKhajit

Bastian doesn’t give dislike because this one lied to him and said it’s a goth furnishing store

And yeah, it’s weird he seems to go along with it all.

Mik195

I think she's fine with the bugs and no murder, but her "let's go murder goblins" creeps me out.

drsalvation

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

There's a difference between beeing okay with some stealing and being part of a murder cult and murdering people with a blade that sends people to the Void. Although, Bastian should really be against visiting the Sanctuary as well.

Mirri likes "cute" bugs. Like butterflies and torchbugs. She don't care about the "ugly" ones.

exactly, she says "if you're going to kill bugs at least kill fetcher flies" (and I haven't noticed any rapport decrease when I actually DO kill fetcher fleis, but maybe there's a cooldown or I just don't get notified?)

But I agree on other aspects, I think Bastian more than anyone would be more upset that you're part of the brotherhood. Considering Mirri is ok with you stealing but bastian isn't, it would make sense that Mirri was more forgiving when it comes to crime-related activities and bastian being more strict.

But that said, I wonder what the new companions would think of you if you use the blade of woe

BretonMage

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

IDK why he doesn't mind you going into the Sanctuary, sounds like an oversight.

It seems to be an oversight that he doesn't mind you transacting with fences too. I do think it's odd that he objects if I look through a thieves trove in the wilderness, but is perfectly fine with selling and laundering stolen goods. He even remarked after a transaction with a fence once that "people who don't like shopping just don't know where to shop".

spartaxoxo

BretonMage wrote: »

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

IDK why he doesn't mind you going into the Sanctuary, sounds like an oversight.

It seems to be an oversight that he doesn't mind you transacting with fences too. I do think it's odd that he objects if I look through a thieves trove in the wilderness, but is perfectly fine with selling and laundering stolen goods. He even remarked after a transaction with a fence once that "people who don't like shopping just don't know where to shop".

I think because fences count as merchants (true of the endeavor too) he can't tell that you're selling to one unless you pay it to remove your bounty. He does react negatively to that. He'll say to that "Just because you didn't get caught doesn't mean you didn't deserve to," if you pay it there.

They should probably change that too.

FrancisCrawford

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

The Dark Brotherhood are assassins; they don't care whether someone is innocent or not before killing them, so if Mirri isn't OK with crime, it kind of follows that she wouldn't be OK with murder-for-hire.

What's this about Mirri not being OK with crime? She's fine with stealing.

Ghanima_Atreides

You're right, I misremembered. I almost never play thieves.

moleculardrugs

Scaletho wrote: »

First of all, this it just my opinion. I understand that Companion behavior has its pros and cons, and this is part of the system's immersion.

But I have some doubts about Mirri Elendis behavior, mainly about some of the Negative Rapports.

Mirri is a Nightblade, and a Dunmer. Dunmers are hardened warriors, and not shy of some level of violence. I understand that Mirri is a kind of explorer and don't like crime around her.

But I think it is very weird her dislike specifically Dark Brotherhood. It's ok if she don't like to be part of unfair crimes (innocent people or animals been killed), but the inclusion of Dark Brotherhood is very disappointing imho.

Bastion Hallix is a "honored" Imperial, and he simply doesn't care if I go to Dark Brotherhood lair! If HE was the Companion who disliked DB it will be more credible.

Another weird point is BUGS. Mirri doesn't like we take... BUGS??? I mean, she's also a dunmer and hates it when we hurt bugs....while talking about eating some kinds of them!!!

Anyway, I think Companion's Raports and behavior deserves to be reviewed and polished. But as I said, its just my perception. Perhaps other Companions will arrives and we will have better options in the future.

Mirri is not your typical Dunmer gal she's a bad ass and hardcore and has amazing and almost always sassy commentary, which further adds to her character. I like that she has these "illogical" quirks of a Nightblade Dunmer because it shows she's just a Mer at the end of the day. A lot of us want our Companions to be like Vivec but I like that ESO tries to make them more mortal even if they are immortal. Bastian is a lot more sensitive than Mirri that's for sure, but Mirri at first made me not like her because of the Torchbugs and even the DB thing (murder, showing her the skeletons in the DB closet, literally). But it shows she's not a bad person, like she understands you'll have to fight and kill people because that's the type of world we live in in Tamriel.

I think Mirri reflects my NB a lot because I hate ganking people in Cyrodiil or IC. Sure, lots of other NBs love it, but my NB is a Brawler build so I do less Ganking and instead exploit the cool sustain I'm given to heal myself.

Kesstryl

I don't mind some of the quirks, though they are super annoying when an innocent critter accidentally gets killed in a fight to the death against zombies and he yells at you over it. What's more annoying though is when ZOS trolls us by placing safeboxes and lootable items next to CRAFTING TABLES and interactable NPCs, and you never turned on the option to disable looting stolen items because it didn't exist at the time you made that character, and your totally honorable and highly moral Templar Healer makes a potion Grahtwood and accidentally goes into a safebox interface. Even when you leave the interface without having done anything, you get accosted by a guard, and your totally innocent, moral, righteous, Stendarr worshiping Templar Healer gets an earful from Bastion.