Should true no-counterplay one-shots be a part of this PvP?

xylena_lazarow

Assume all parties involved are running meta PvP builds, disregard the 17k hp squishies in white gear.

geonsocal

No

simple yet surprisingly complex (in terms of eso specific gameplay) question...

complex mainly because game performance can play such a huge part of combat...

divnyi

No

Funny, if you rephrase this question into https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/596427/just-another-what-if-thread
nobody will agree.

divnyi

No

I think true oneshot should have a cap of approx 20-23k HP. This is obviously not there now.

xylena_lazarow

No

divnyi wrote: »

Funny, if you rephrase this question nobody will agree

The way you presented your point was a little awkward but I think it could have merit, further reducing both damage and healing could make combat less spiky, no one-shots, no insta-heal, each hit would matter, stalemates would be far less frequent, and TTK would be overall lower than the tank meta we're in since you couldn't stall endlessly.

geonsocal wrote: »

performance can play such a huge part of combat

For the sake of the poll, please disregard situations where lag denies counterplay. Assume good latency.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Are we talking about this new 40k damage heavy attack? Nah that shouldn't be in the game. If we are talking about some sneaky nb coming up behind you and making you dead faster, then yes that should be in the game. Someone has to be able to burst down magplars before they can press their only other slotted ability besides jabs.

OBJnoob

No

Careful slam your bias is showing.

The question is should one shots without counterplay exist. My answer is no. Some might say yes. But saying yes for nightblades and no for dragon knights is… uh… well that’s the opinion of a nightblade isn’t it?

SkaraMinoc

Yes

Only if target is low armor/hp (e.g. Mag Sorc w/ 25k health and 20k armor and shield down)

If target has 35k+ hp and 40k+ armor, then no.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

OBJnoob wrote: »

Careful slam your bias is showing.

The question is should one shots without counterplay exist. My answer is no. Some might say yes. But saying yes for nightblades and no for dragon knights is… uh… well that’s the opinion of a nightblade isn’t it?

Nightblades don't really "one shot" though. Its a combination thats takes place over a couple gcds, so there is counterplay.

NerfSeige

Yes

Yes, no proc greyhost got old fast. A cyro with bombers and gankers is more exciting.

Larcomar

No

No doubt the gankers will howl but it's a game, it needs to be fun and that means it's got to be fun for everyone...

Most players, they have a long fight with someone, they're going to have fun whether they win or lose. It's kind of what they're there for. And they'll probably learn something and get better.

People getting instadeleted from stealth, with no opportunity to break free yet alone respond? I'm sure that's fun for the ganker. But its zero fun for the player on the receiving end. There's a reason everyone either who's not running a Nb goes tanky.

L_Nici

Yes

Well if someone invests everything into that, he or she should be able to do it. It only gets problematic, if a person can onehit you and still has 40k HP or something.
Currently true oneshot is pretty hard to do on most players. There is some with pretty low HP, but even if we say people would have an average of 30k HP it already gets hard to oneshot them. On paper it would work, but in reality most people will react to a gank and often avoid the oneshot itself being heavily weakened though for the follow up.

OBJnoob

No

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Careful slam your bias is showing.

The question is should one shots without counterplay exist. My answer is no. Some might say yes. But saying yes for nightblades and no for dragon knights is… uh… well that’s the opinion of a nightblade isn’t it?

Nightblades don't really "one shot" though. Its a combination thats takes place over a couple gcds, so there is counterplay.

Right, so the answer is no. Nightblades shouldn’t have the ability to one shot without counterplay. Forgive me but it seemed like you were saying only nbs should. Now I think you’re just kinda changing the question a bit.

Metemsycosis

No

idk. some of the NB combos are just broken. full damage snipe+incap ive seen hit for 30k against 33k resistance and 2600 impen.

the heavy attack (caluurion) incap (stun) whirlwind combo is another that seems to have no counterplay.

thing is if the game were working properly these combos wouldn't be so bad. but the snipe combo desyncs your health, while the damage from the heavy attack incap combo often registers simultaneously -- ive seen this from both sides.

Vevvev

Technically counters do exist, but they're preventive counters due to stealth mechanics since you can't see it coming. Like holding block, throwing down flares at choke points, etc... Not very engaging and fun to do though and makes me stressed as all get out.

maxjapank

No

Removing the Vampire sprint into stealth would help kill this current one-shot inferno heavy attack setup. They might get the kill, but they’d have a really hard time getting away. They could also not let Empower effect heavy attacks or change the DK heavy attack bonus.

Oakenaxe

No

Not just that, I would truly love to see Plaguebreak, Vicious Death and Dark Convergence removed from this game.

Honghua

No

One shooting people with 1 heavy attack is stupid, it should take at least 3-4 skills to do a "1 shoot".

katorga

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Are we talking about this new 40k damage heavy attack? Nah that shouldn't be in the game. If we are talking about some sneaky nb coming up behind you and making you dead faster, then yes that should be in the game. Someone has to be able to burst down magplars before they can press their only other slotted ability besides jabs.

It is not new. The inferno heavy attack gank build or a variation of it has been around literally forever.

Circa 2017 NB firestaff gank.

https://youtu.be/LVN9bYwmoNM

Amottica

If all parties were running mega PvP builds then how are there one shot builds that will one-shot every other meta build?

wazzz56

Oakenaxe wrote: »

Not just that, I would truly love to see Plaguebreak, Vicious Death and Dark Convergence removed from this game.

@Oakenaxe so you just want the zergs to run around without worry?

neferpitou73

No

Half the player-base complains about ridiculous one-shot builds

The other half complains about unkillable tank builds.

Something tells me at least part of these issues are l2p. A smaller part is actually broken mechanics.

xylena_lazarow

No

wazzz56 wrote: »

@Oakenaxe so you just want the zergs to run around without worry?

Those sets widen the power gap between casuals/randoms/pugs and optimized groups, as only the optimized groups can really make good use of them. I would argue that game elements that only widen the floor/ceiling power gap are bad for the health of PvP, as they drive away casuals/randoms/pugs, leaving Cyro extremely dead, for without the "zergs" there is no action. Performance is not the only factor to the declining PvP population.

neferpitou73

No

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

@Oakenaxe so you just want the zergs to run around without worry?

Those sets widen the power gap between casuals/randoms/pugs and optimized groups, as only the optimized groups can really make good use of them. I would argue that game elements that only widen the floor/ceiling power gap are bad for the health of PvP, as they drive away casuals/randoms/pugs, leaving Cyro extremely dead, for without the "zergs" there is no action. Performance is not the only factor to the declining PvP population.

Eh I disagree with that, it's not just organzied groups that use VD and PB. They'd still be sluaghtering pugs even without VD (heck my group doesn't even use it). There's a lot of solo bomber builds that use VD and PB which take a lot of skill to use.

Although I share your general dislike of the sets, mostly because they add gameplay elements out of your control. I shouldn't be punished because some Leeroy Jenkins with 22k hp decides to run into the middle of a ball group.

WreckfulAbandon

If only ZOS would fix the lag so we could reliably dodge Calurrians again. Well Break Free would have to work first actually.

Kwoung

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Half the player-base complains about ridiculous one-shot builds

The other half complains about unkillable tank builds.

Something tells me at least part of these issues are l2p. A smaller part is actually broken mechanics.

I have to wonder what is considered a one-shot build? I have been ganked by NB's, taken these heavy attacks to the face and can quite honestly say, I have never been one-shot, by anyone to my knowledge. There has always been extra damage, secondary and tertiary attacks involved, and in most cases, being macro-sliced because of the lag. Most of the times when I literally drop over dead, my recap (not the crappy in game one) shows I was targeted by multiple players at once and they all had a hand in it, in many cases some rando light attack threw me over the top and caused my demise. In the case of macro slices, the recap actually shows I was killed over what looks like 3-4 GCD's, except all the damage landed at once because of the lag.

If of course I just looked at the extremely useless in game death recap, it looks like I was one-shot by someone, but that is never actually the case. So what is a True no counterplay one shot build?

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Kwoung wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Half the player-base complains about ridiculous one-shot builds

The other half complains about unkillable tank builds.

Something tells me at least part of these issues are l2p. A smaller part is actually broken mechanics.

I have to wonder what is considered a one-shot build? I have been ganked by NB's, taken these heavy attacks to the face and can quite honestly say, I have never been one-shot, by anyone to my knowledge. There has always been extra damage, secondary and tertiary attacks involved, and in most cases, being macro-sliced because of the lag. Most of the times when I literally drop over dead, my recap (not the crappy in game one) shows I was targeted by multiple players at once and they all had a hand in it, in many cases some rando light attack threw me over the top and caused my demise. In the case of macro slices, the recap actually shows I was killed over what looks like 3-4 GCD's, except all the damage landed at once because of the lag.

If of course I just looked at the extremely useless in game death recap, it looks like I was one-shot by someone, but that is never actually the case. So what is a True no counterplay one shot build?

Only people that truly do not get a chance to counter are playing glass cannons themselves. There is gank builds that can kill bruisers and even some tanks, but its never a true one shot. Its always a combo attack with ults and procs involved and there is time to break free and save yourself. Got about 2 seconds to respond before you die, but there is time.