A New Card Game, Not TESL

merpins

Well now we know the main draw of the new chapter!
I speculated before that, since TESL was put on the backburner and is no longer being produced, ESO should pick up those pieces and put it in the game as a competitive card game. Rather than that, they decide to use the resources for the year to... Make a new resource management card game instead? We don't know much, but I'll just say this: TESL was a fantastic game.
I'm going to quote my message from the official feedback thread:

I like the idea of the setting, and the idea of having a card game added to ESO in this setting makes sense thematically.

However, you all already own a perfectly good card game that is coincidentally no longer being supported...

TESL. TESL was the best card game I've ever played hands down, more than Magic (hot take), more than Yugioh, more than Gwent. The factors that game had going against it were
1. the complete saturation of card games in the marketplace when it was released
2. the lack of enthusiasm for the game.
With enough eyes on it, it would have been 100x more popular than it ever was. This could have been your opportunity to fold TESL into ESO. It would have taken less man-hours to do as well, since you wouldn't have needed to design a whole new game.

Card games are difficult to make well, and if you don't make it well, it will just become dead, unsupported content. TESL has a dedicated fan base. I guarantee you, if you had folded TESL into ESO, everyone from that community would have joined the ESO community to play that game. People that know how the game works would teach new players, and it would become a fantastic addition to the things players can do in game with a small but dedicated community that can teach the nuances of that game that would come with it.

This new game just sounds like Fluxx, but with a deck building aspect and for 2 players instead of 4 to 6. That, combined with the fact that both decks are combined makes the game lose any sense of real strategy that would have been present, making it a coin flip 50% chance of winning game almost every time. Calling it now. This game is going to release, people are going to either collect all the cards and play the game a bit then never touch it again causing it to become dead content, or it's going to be behind a paywall with card packs, and people will do the same thing, but slowly and then never touch the game again after 4 months.

If it was TESL, you'd have a constant playerbase, and one that already exists coming in to support it. I cannot imagine that you made a game that is better than TESL, or even close with how the game mechanics sound like they work.

merpins

What we do know:
1. This card game is a resource building game where you try and reach a win-state. These games can be fun, Fluxx is that type of game to some extent. But....
2. There is no strategy here really. You have your own deck, but it is combined with your opponent's deck at the beginning of the game. This is an interesting concept, and helps to mitigate pay-to-win, but it also makes it almost entirely luck based, which is great in a 4+ person card game (like Fluxx), but not in a 1v1.
3. You get starter decks and can unlock other starter decks/cards by playing in-game. We do not know if this is specific to the new zone (probably) or if it extends to all other zones. If it extents to all other zones, then great. If it's not, then it's not great.

dinokstrunz

Sounds boring. At least TES:L was kinda fun.

_adhyffbjjjf12

if they don't reuse TESL then that is an utter kick in the teeth for those loyal players of ESL imo.

Faulgor

Feels like a kick in the pistachios for Legends, tbh. I loved that game, have a whole collection, was heartbroken when it stopped development.

So by all accounts I should be excited for a CCG coming to ESO, but ...

We will never get more combat systems, will we? New weapon types? Skill lines? sigh.

merpins

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

if they don't reuse TESL then that is an utter kick in the teeth for those loyal players of ESL imo.

I agree whole heartedly. Why make a Fluxx knock-off when TESL exists? Nothing they have done up to this point has upset me more than this. I've been happy with 99% of their decisions, and though it's been questionable at times (looking at some business practices), the fact that it's a card game, but not the good card game that they own is honestly super upsetting. I told my wife who was sitting across the room, the conversation went like this:
"Hey, you know how I said ESO should put TESL in like Witcher 3 did with Gwent?"
she turned and looked at me with the most excitement for this game than she's had in 2 years.
"Well it's not that, it's another card game."

She immediately got pissed and left the house for a cigarette, visibly fuming at this decision.

merpins

Faulgor wrote: »

Feels like a kick in the pistachios for Legends, tbh. I loved that game, have a whole collection, was heartbroken when it stopped development.

So by all accounts I should be excited for a CCG coming to ESO, but ...

We will never get more combat systems, will we? New weapon types? Skill lines? sigh.

When they started talking about a card game coming to ESO, it sounded like they were hinting at folding TESL into the game. I have never had such excitement be immediately destroyed like that, I swear.

Faulgor

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Feels like a kick in the pistachios for Legends, tbh. I loved that game, have a whole collection, was heartbroken when it stopped development.

So by all accounts I should be excited for a CCG coming to ESO, but ...

We will never get more combat systems, will we? New weapon types? Skill lines? sigh.

When they started talking about a card game coming to ESO, it sounded like they were hinting at folding TESL into the game. I have never had such excitement be immediately destroyed like that, I swear.

I could see how there might be some lore issues with certain cards, that shouldn't appear in the 2nd era.
But honestly, just create different cards, then. And while you're at it, get rid of 3 attribute classes, lol.
Ah well, too late for all that.

RIP my premium Alduin.

merpins

Faulgor wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Feels like a kick in the pistachios for Legends, tbh. I loved that game, have a whole collection, was heartbroken when it stopped development.

So by all accounts I should be excited for a CCG coming to ESO, but ...

We will never get more combat systems, will we? New weapon types? Skill lines? sigh.

When they started talking about a card game coming to ESO, it sounded like they were hinting at folding TESL into the game. I have never had such excitement be immediately destroyed like that, I swear.

I could see how there might be some lore issues with certain cards, that shouldn't appear in the 2nd era.
But honestly, just create different cards, then. And while you're at it, get rid of 3 attribute classes, lol.
Ah well, too late for all that.

RIP my premium Alduin.

Gwent existed in the Witcher 3 and had cards that were specifically tied to the characters in game and would never exist in universe. It could easily exist, just fine.

merpins

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Sounds boring. At least TES:L was kinda fun.

Agreed.

TitusF2

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Sounds boring. At least TES:L was kinda fun.

Sounds like a way for ZoS to pull in those TESL players to ESO.

CP5

TitusF2 wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Sounds boring. At least TES:L was kinda fun.

Sounds like a way for ZoS to pull in those TESL players to ESO.

Would have been easier if they actually put ESL into ESO.

maboleth

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

if they don't reuse TESL then that is an utter kick in the teeth for those loyal players of ESL imo.

I agree whole heartedly. Why make a Fluxx knock-off when TESL exists? .

Probably because in TESL you had to use your brain. They proved in ESO so many times that they treat players as not very... "gifted" ones. That need constant reminder of who they are, what they are doing in the game. The clues that almost are instantly revealed and very easy to find. Puzzles that have almost nonexistent challenge.

So there you go.

merpins

TitusF2 wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Sounds boring. At least TES:L was kinda fun.

Sounds like a way for ZoS to pull in those TESL players to ESO.

It would have been if this was TESL.

Tommy_The_Gun

Not that I think it is the end of the world, but... does this game really needs a card game ? I mean did at least one ESO player (who is not also ESO Dev) wanted a card game ? ? ? I have not seen any one saying: "Give us a card game, so I can game while I already game !" It is not Witcher, we dont need Gwent that much I guess.... I mean it would be better to maybe idk, fix the actual PvP instead of introducing new Card PvP game lol...

merpins

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Not that I think it is the end of the world, but... does this game really needs a card game ? I mean did at least one ESO player (who is not also ESO Dev) wanted a card game ? ? ? I have not seen any one saying: "Give us a card game, so I can game while I already game !" It is not Witcher, we dont need Gwent that much I guess.... I mean it would be better to maybe idk, fix the actual PvP instead of introducing new Card PvP game lol...

I personally did. Not a new card game, but specifically TESL, a product that was already finished and could be added on to or even changed to fit into ESO with minimal work on the design side (for a card game, what takes most of the time), since it was already designed and no longer supported, just coasting in a twilight state. It felt like something they could do, not as a part of a major DLC, but something they could just do on the side. Instead they did the dumb thing of designing a whole new card game (which'll probably flop based on the mechanics i've heard), and made it the whole mechanic of the expansion, which is not what I was asking for.

It feels like I wished upon a genie for a new car and got a hotwheel toy car.

Nomadic_Atmoran

I just have to wonder what is going to go ignored, understaffed, underdeveloped so this card game can rake in money for them?

Jaimeh

I just hope that they will bring more complexity to the mini game than antiquities, because scrying was supposed to be a puzzle, and even without the passives it's not that challenging. And I hope that a) the game will not be tied to any perks in compat via exclusive items (like mythics), etc., so players won't have to participate if they end up not liking it and b) that they won't put cards beging excessive rng grinds.

Epona222

I honestly have absolutely no interest in a card game whatsoever.

I played a series of popular games which featured a tavern card game that a lot of people really enjoyed, but despite loving the games, I never played it beyond the in-game tutorial.

merpins

Epona222 wrote: »

I honestly have absolutely no interest in a card game whatsoever.

I played a series of popular games which featured a tavern card game that a lot of people really enjoyed, but despite loving the games, I never played it beyond the in-game tutorial.

That can happen, and is totally fine. Not everyone will enjoy every aspect of a game, but adding more things to do in a big game like this will help with longevity. I'm just upset over the fact that it's a new card game with obvious weaknesses in its design with just the little info we have on it: it doesn't sound like a game that will stick to the playerbase, and probably won't even develop much of a small following either since strategy doesn't matter when both players' decks are combined. TESL would have been a much stronger choice which would have included a small but dedicated playerbase that would flood in with it.

StabbityDoom

I gotta ask, did you guys do any directed market research with people who play the game to see if they would want this?

Cuz, this didn’t come up in any discussions I’ve ever had in 6 years playing eso.

Probably for good reason.

merpins

Jaimeh wrote: »

I just hope that they will bring more complexity to the mini game than antiquities, because scrying was supposed to be a puzzle, and even without the passives it's not that challenging. And I hope that a) the game will not be tied to any perks in compat via exclusive items (like mythics), etc., so players won't have to participate if they end up not liking it and b) that they won't put cards beging excessive rng grinds.

It does sound more like a competitive mini-game than a card game to be sure. The mechanics of the game that they've outlined (which are few mind you) make it sound more like a party game, but the fact that it's 2 players makes it also not sound great.
But RNG grinds probably don't matter: keep in mind the mechanic of you and your opponents decks are combined into one pool, and you both draw from that new deck. That's why I say it's a coin flip with no strategy; you and your opponent have the prospect of drawing any card either of you are playing. That sounds very boring to me tbh.

Karivaa

StabbityDoom wrote: »

I gotta ask, did you guys do any directed market research with people who play the game to see if they would want this?

Cuz, this didn’t come up in any discussions I’ve ever had in 6 years playing eso.

Probably for good reason.

Right? I have never seen any requests for this. I was hoping we would get a new character or skill line like we did with wardens and the psyjic line.

merpins

Karivaa wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

I gotta ask, did you guys do any directed market research with people who play the game to see if they would want this?

Cuz, this didn’t come up in any discussions I’ve ever had in 6 years playing eso.

Probably for good reason.

Right? I have never seen any requests for this. I was hoping we would get a new character or skill line like we did with wardens and the psyjic line.

I've posted it once and it got a little bit of traction, and I've seen it posted a couple times over the last 12 months, nothing big, but a small outcry from what's left of the TESL community. None of us wanted a new card game, and those of us that wanted a card game, wanted TESL.