Ethics of Datamining and releasing the Chapter information the day before the Reveal

_Zathras_

I feel the very timely datamine information dump the day before the new Chapter reveal to be in very bad taste.

Why? Because it went leaps and bounds beyond speculation into outright spoilers. I logged onto the forums this morning, and there are threads titles that have the new Chapter name. While I could avoid reading spoiler threads, I can't avoid seeing the information shamelessly plastered at the top of the page.

Who does the datamining dump benefit? The people posting it, and those that did the actual digging. It is a direct effort to get ahead of the reveal, not with some fun hype speculation, but with correct information that has been outright yanked from the source. It's a "Ha! Look what I found!" and a finger in the eye of the ESO team, as well as the people who didn't want spoilers of this magnitude.

I feel it undermines the efforts of the ZOS team's work to give us a surprise later today with the upcoming content. And, I also feel like it ruined all of that for people logging onto the forums, including myself.

While I understand some people like sneak peeks, yesterday's information dump unleashed all the horses from the barn. IMHO, it was a low-brow move.

ShawnLaRock

Don’t wanna know? Don’t look at the post.

S.

EF321

Datamining the Chapter information was a-ok in my books

ShawnLaRock wrote: »

Don’t wanna know? Don’t look at the post.

S.

This. Not like they shoved spoilers in the title.

_Zathras_

Datamining the Chapter information and releasing the information the day before the team's Chapter reveal was a cheese move

ShawnLaRock wrote: »

Don’t wanna know? Don’t look at the post.

S.

_Zathras_ wrote: »

While I could avoid reading spoiler threads, I can't avoid seeing the information shamelessly plastered at the top of the page.

colossalvoids

Datamining the Chapter information was a-ok in my books

Was always ok with me. I might agree about posting results on forums but there would be complaints anyway about "keeping to yourself" from community that way. Teams hyping up some non existent fluff is way worse crime in my book than bit earlier dry direct information.

phaneub17_ESO

They could have not included any of the data into the patch files at all or patched it a day to a week after the reveal, this time they decided to push the patch date from a usual Monday to a Thursday. Even without that, they posted promo pictures of High Isle Merchandise to Twitter for all to see before taking it down.

Stanx

Isn't it ZOS that ultimately spoiled this themselves by tweeting out High Isles merch prematurely? Just re "undermining efforts".

Data mining isn't new and there are always posts on the forum leading up to reveals. I do agree that they shouldn't put spoilers in the titles, though, which has definitely happened this time.

perfiction

Datamining the Chapter information was a-ok in my books

The biggest leakers are ZOS/Bethesda themselves. Bethesda uploaded the picture with new chapter merch to their twitter yesterday, after few minutes they realised they did an oopsie and removed it.

When it comes to dataminers - from what I saw on the forum they are doing it in ethical manner, always put all the leaks/theories in spoiler tags so you won't be able to accidentaly read it.

Gundug

I get the impression that these sorts of teasers in the form of “leaked” or datamined information are at a minimum, tacitly encouraged by developers, since it serves to generate a little advance buzz and excitement for an upcoming product. If I was a developer, I would be much more worried if no one was interested in leaking details like this. The files were put in place by ZOS. If they wanted them to be a secret, they would not have patched them into the game at this time.

fizl101

Datamining the Chapter information and releasing the information the day before the team's Chapter reveal was a cheese move

Having stuff in the titles is what really spoils it for me.

i can avoid reading posts if it says its spoilers or datamined or whatever (although i'm not a fan of datamining generally), but I can't magically unsee when information is in the thread names

Toxic_Hemlock

Datamining the Chapter information was a-ok in my books

They did their best to hide it by only doing the update today anyways because they knew it would be data mined.

I see no problem with it being revealed so long as their is a spoiler/data mined tag associated with the post. Not an issue, ZOS did their best to keep it hidden until the day of the reveal anyways.

Edit: clarity

Sylas_Orin

Datamining the Chapter information was a-ok in my books

I mean this with the utmost respect, but I think that the name of the chapter, or the name of where we're going isn't too spoilery.

If someone had made a thread that goes "Sai Sahan dies at the end of Summerset!" in the title, then sure, that's one thing, but whether you learn the chapter name at 9am in the morning or 9pm in the evening doesn't change that you are going to find it out eventually.

You might say that it's a bit of a double standard, cause, "well you are going to find out Sai Sahan dies at the end of Summerset eventually." And sure, you know, it is.

But I think that names/bare bones information about upcoming content is too inconsequential to fret over.

BloodyStigmata

I don't really care either way

I think you've got a right to view and discuss any file that were downloaded on your computer by any game client you have installed. If that mean spoiling the new chapter so be it.

As long as the topics in question are marked with spoiler warnings, there's nothing ethically wrong about discussing what was found. Don't click on the topic if you don't want to know more.

Vaoh

Datamining the Chapter information was a-ok in my books

Nothing wrong with datamining. All the real info is in the threads. In fact one of them even used spoiler tags.

The chapter name/location got leaked separate from the datamine so you can find it in a lot more places other than the forums. You should avoid ESO-related social media the day of the public announcement if you’re concerned about that 😐 We’ve been through five chapters of this already.

Elsonso

_Zathras_ wrote: »

I feel the very timely datamine information dump the day before the new Chapter reveal to be in very bad taste.

Why? Because it went leaps and bounds beyond speculation into outright spoilers. I logged onto the forums this morning, and there are threads titles that have the new Chapter name. While I could avoid reading spoiler threads, I can't avoid seeing the information shamelessly plastered at the top of the page.

The code name for this Year/Chapter was datamined last fall. This led to several paths of speculation, but nothing concrete.

There was a credible leak, probably not datamining, early this month that I think many/most people discounted as made up. There was no way to validate the source of information.

A developer inadvertently leaked some information about a returning character. This has not been confirmed, but is assumed true.

Then the day before the big announcement, ZOS/Bethesda released the horses, to use your term. No data mining was involved. All people had to do was screen capture the information "leaked" from official sources. This actually confirmed information from both of the earlier leaks.

The patch was rolled out today (presumably) because they knew that it would be datamined today and released before the reveal. My guess is that they saw this as acceptable as it ever will get, since it is at least on the same day. That ended up being a wasted effort, since ZOS/Bethesda spilled the beans, anyway.

As it turns out, the biggest offender this time around was ZOS/Bethesda for releasing information one day early. At this point, prior to the announce, all data mining is doing is confirming what was leaked through official channels.

Tommy_The_Gun

Datamining the Chapter information was a-ok in my books

That way at least I know it is not about Black Marsh & Argonians, so no need for unnecessary excitement.

^ I am waiting for it since game launched tbh as I know there is no hope for any "officialc" TES game that would take place there. ESO chapter is the only way we will be able to fully visit entire Black Marsh.

_Zathras_

Datamining the Chapter information and releasing the information the day before the team's Chapter reveal was a cheese move

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

I see no problem with it being revealed so long as their is a spoiler/data mined tag associated with the post.

The guy who posted the spoiler thread didn't have the [Datamine] tag yesterday. He changed it later. While he did use spoiler tags in his OP, people commenting did not..including pics of the leaked material.

Also, there is another thread with the name of the new Chapter in it's title.

All in all, while my thoughts on the datamining itself is 50/50 good/bad, it's the release at the 11th hour so that the OP of that thread could take credit for the information reveal.

That is what I find unethical, and a cheese move on their part.

Araneae6537

Datamining the Chapter information and releasing the information the day before the team's Chapter reveal was a cheese move

Months in advance then sure, it’s fun to speculate over hints and I feel it’s expected and part of the “game” so to speak, and we speculate over codenames like Dune as to whether it references deserts, political intrigues, etc.

The day before? Why? And it sounds like it’s not just hints but concrete details but I haven’t looked because I’d rather find out in the reveal.

I feel that it was done out of spite or something toward ZOS or grabbing attention for themselves.

Odovacar

I don't really care either way

Pretty sure ZOS planned the quickie tweet then deleted... As far as datamining imo...i really don't care one way or the other tbh. I know I can choose to click on a thread with details or move along and wait to be "surprised".

CyberOnEso

Datamining the Chapter information was a-ok in my books

I appreciate that you may not agree, and I try to use spoiler tags where I feel it's appropriate, my post had everything in a spoiler tag and the name was intentionally not in the title.

Tools to extract information from the game exist, ZOS know they exist and they intentionally use code names until they change them last minute to ensure the store works. The datamine wasn't posted hours before the reveal to spite ZOS, it was because that was the earliest time it was available.

The alternative is that people use these tools and datamine content for themselves and not share it, I would personally find that obnoxious and rude, having knowlege and refusing to share it because you think it would be better for others isn't right.
There are lots of people who are interested to know the information but cannot, for whatever reason, datamine it, perhaps they play on console. I think it would be unfair to those people who want to see it but cannot for the information to be hidden from them. They can make that decision for themselves, and that's why it's important we use spoiler tags when necessary.

We are all excited for what will be annouced- I am still counting down the hours until the stream, the people that datamine the content aren't in it to spite ZOS but because they love the game and they want to see what they can find and share it with others.

RemanCyrodiil_I

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Seraphayel

I don't really care either way

Until they get better at hiding these things, I don’t feel sympathy for datamined stuff.

Elsonso

Odovacar wrote: »

Pretty sure ZOS planned the quickie tweet then deleted...

Possible. It steals thunder from the data miners. However, ZOS _still_ has the wrong end date for the current eventin the login screen announcements. They seem to have an issue with getting dates straight across the organization. My vote goes for "miscommunication of dates" rather than "planned early leak".

Adremal

I don't really care either way

Don't care. It's a matter of hours and it's not an extensive, complete leak. In fact it's building up tension as far as I'm concerned so it probably did more good than bad.

Odovacar

I don't really care either way

Elsonso wrote: »

Odovacar wrote: »

Pretty sure ZOS planned the quickie tweet then deleted...

Possible. It steals thunder from the data miners. However, ZOS _still_ has the wrong end date for the current eventin the login screen announcements. They seem to have an issue with getting dates straight across the organization. My vote goes for "miscommunication of dates" rather than "planned early leak".

quite possible and I'm sure you know more about their operation than I do as iirc you've been to their studio. I will say though...they've *had many "leaks" over the years and you would think they would tighten up their miscommunications, lol.

It's all good though...still looking forward to more details this afternoon. Myself and many others already had a big hunch High Isle was the location per lore books, hints, etc.

Danikat

I don't really care either way

Speaking purely for myself I'm indifferent.

I have absolutely no intention of wasting my time watching a long, rambling 'reveal' presentation when I know in advance all the relevant information will be in a short article on the website as soon as the livestream is finished. Choosing to look at a datamine just means I see some of it slightly earlier and in a more disjointed form. It doesn't change the information given or what's going to be in the new chapter.

I don't really see the big deal about the name either, especially in this case where it's not a place name we already know about. On it's own all it tells you is the chapter involves an island, which we already knew from the teaser trailer.

Looking at it more generally I can see there could be negative consequences for ZOS and maybe for some players. Some things about the new chapter probably would be better recieved if ZOS had the oppertunity to explain it fully rather than players finding out about it via out of context snippets of information in a datamine. I'm sure they have good reason to think their planned announcement and subsequent marketing campaign is the best way to sell their product and now some of the impact of it is lost.

But this is not a new occurance. I've been playing ESO since early 2015 and I think I've found out about every single DLC and chapter in advance of the official announcement, usually through the official forum, either because of data mining or 'hints' in the game itself which pretty much confirms where the next release will take us. If ZOS thought it was a big problem I assume they would have done something before now to prevent it.

LightningWitch

I don't get the complaining. What was there to spoil? A name? Come on. That's a ridiculous reason to get upset.

It's not as if any of the quests, characters, or other information has been posted. It's just titles.

If you've read any of the lore to the Elder Scrolls franchise, you could have easily have seen this coming.

If a future DLC comes out to finish up Elsweyr, will you be upset to find out one of the cities is Corinthe?

This one thinks if you do, then you should drink some me, yes?

wolfie1.0.

Datamining the Chapter information and releasing the information the day before the team's Chapter reveal was a cheese move

Datamining the reveal is a crummy move. But, I will say this. Ultimately it's on ZOS for putting the information out there in the files to be mined. Though if I were a dev I would put a few red herrings in the files for such people to mess with them.

Lady_Galadhiel

I don't really care either way

Releasing the chapter publicity on YouTube a day before the actual reveal stream happens does not help either.

RisenEclipse

I don't really care either way

I am looking through old posts and only see one post that has the name of the chapter in its title, and that was only because of ZOS's oops. Unless someone changed their post title before I saw it? Most posts are pretty good about warning about spoilers in the title, and usually the post itself is hidden in spoilers. So people who want to be surprised are still going to be surprised. But considering the big oops that happened, I'm not surprised that everyone is hearing about what the new chapter is. Doesn't help that the dataminers were right on the money with it this time too.

Elsonso

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LightningWitch wrote: »

I don't get the complaining. What was there to spoil? A name? Come on. That's a ridiculous reason to get upset.

It's not as if any of the quests, characters, or other information has been posted. It's just titles.

If you've read any of the lore to the Elder Scrolls franchise, you could have easily have seen this coming.

Well, to be fair, the reveal will be skimpy on those details, too. The reveal won't "spoil" any more than it needs to. I expect it will have more detail about the 1Q DLC, especially during the after show, than the 2Q Chapter.

What I expect from today..

1. Name of the Year
2. Back story for the year
3. Name of the 1Q DLC
4. Names of the 2 dungeons in the 1Q DLC
5. PTS date for the 1Q DLC, obviously no DLC release date will be announced.
6. Name of the Chapter
7. Additional 1Q/Chapter highlights, basically bullet points, that will confirm what was datamined this morning
8. Information about the availability of the prolog quest
10. Release date for the Chapter
11. An additional couple minutes of cinematic.
12. Pre-order announcement (starts today)

The valuable information is actually the systems information that escaped data mining, as they won't give us a lot of story information beyond why we are there.

And of course, the Crab... which I have pre-named "Dinner"

EDIT: The after show about the 1Q DLC will be the one to watch to get the most bang for the time spent.