Can we have Reachman added as a selected race?

MindOfTheSwarm

I mean is it really unrealistic? The Vestige acts as an independent agent within the events of the world. No reason a Reachman can’t be the chosen one, even in the context of the three banners war.

Here is an idea of class passives that could reflect the Reachman:

Reachman:

Instinctive:

Increases the experience gain with the Medium Armor Skill line by 15%.

Decreases your dodge roll cost by 10%.

Wild:

Rank I - Unlocked at Reachman 5
Increases your Max Health by 375.
Increases your Max Stamina by 375.

Rank II - Unlocked at Reachman 15
Increases your Max Health by 750.
Increases your Max Stamina by 750.

Rank III - Unlocked at Reachman 30
Increases your Max Stamina by 1500.
Increases your Max Health by 1500.

Resilient:

Rank I - Unlocked at Reachman 10
Increases your Armor by 350.
Increases your Health Recovery by 75.

Rank II - Unlocked at Reachman 20
Increases your Armor by 700.
Increases your Health Recovery by 150.

Rank III - Unlocked at Reachman 40.
Increases your Armor by 1400.
Increases your Health Recovery by 250.

Fanatical:

Rank I - Unlocked at Reachman 25
Increases your Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 25.
Reduces the cost of your Ultimate abilities by 5%.

Rank II - Unlocked at Reachman 35
Increases your Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 50.
Reduces the cost of your Ultimate abilities by 10%.

Rank III - Unlocked at Reachman 50
Increases your Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 75.
Reduces the cost of your Ultimate abilities by 15%.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

You can easily pick a breton or nord and pretend they are a reachman.

bradleymsimmons

They definitely need to introduce a few more playable races. Goblins? Daedric? Lamia?

Brrrofski

TES as a series has only ever had 10 playable races

IF that ever changes, it'd be in a game that's part of the main series. Doubt it's be ESO that changes that.

TheImperfect

I have a reach woman, she's a Breton who wears reach style sometimes. She is married to Hroltar the boaster (poor cow) and rides a reach witch horse.
I think the build racials you made look pretty good though.

ankeor

Reachmen are not welcomed in any place in Tamriel.
Lore wise you should be locked out of any city.

Danikat

Brrrofski wrote: »

TES as a series has only ever had 10 playable races

IF that ever changes, it'd be in a game that's part of the main series. Doubt it's be ESO that changes that.

It used to have just 8: orcs weren't playable until Morrowind and Imperials didn't exist as a race before then, instead Cyrodiil was said to be inhabited by humans from all the races (as well as elves, khajiit and argonians).

I'm sure Bethesda or ZOS could add more if they wanted to, it would just require finding a gameplay niche they can fill which isn't already taken by another race, and maybe some new backstory to explain why they're now involved in the wider story - depending on the race of course.

Personally I'd prefer something other than another human option, but that may be because I find humans the least interesting race in most fantasy games, but TES does already have a lot of human races. For a Reachman all that's really needed is a way to say your breton or nord character is from The Reach.

AcadianPaladin

Just like Ashlanders are Dunmer, Reachmen are Breton. They are simply a cultural spin off, not a distinct race. My two septims anyway.

luen79rwb17_ESO

bradleymsimmons wrote: »

They definitely need to introduce a few more playable races. Goblins? Daedric? Lamia?

And Nereids!!!!!

Parasaurolophus

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Just like Ashlanders are Dunmer, Reachmen are Breton. They are simply a cultural spin off, not a distinct race. My two septims anyway.

I agree. Can the Imperials be divided into Nibenians and Colovians? Or make Wood Orcs?

Arunei

If we get another playable race, I'd kinda prefer it to be the Igma. We only have two Beast races atm, and the Lilmothiit have been extinct for a while (though I'd love if it could be that maybe a few isolated clans still exist in the deepest parts of Black Marsh).

Vevvev

Reachman is basically either a Nord, Breton, or Nedic person (Imperial). They're not a special race all their own but a Mish mash of tribes in the region.

rexagamemnon

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

I mean is it really unrealistic? The Vestige acts as an independent agent within the events of the world. No reason a Reachman can’t be the chosen one, even in the context of the three banners war.

Here is an idea of class passives that could reflect the Reachman:

Reachman:

Instinctive:

Increases the experience gain with the Medium Armor Skill line by 15%.

Decreases your dodge roll cost by 10%.

Wild:

Rank I - Unlocked at Reachman 5
Increases your Max Health by 375.
Increases your Max Stamina by 375.

Rank II - Unlocked at Reachman 15
Increases your Max Health by 750.
Increases your Max Stamina by 750.

Rank III - Unlocked at Reachman 30
Increases your Max Stamina by 1500.
Increases your Max Health by 1500.

Resilient:

Rank I - Unlocked at Reachman 10
Increases your Armor by 350.
Increases your Health Recovery by 75.

Rank II - Unlocked at Reachman 20
Increases your Armor by 700.
Increases your Health Recovery by 150.

Rank III - Unlocked at Reachman 40.
Increases your Armor by 1400.
Increases your Health Recovery by 250.

Fanatical:

Rank I - Unlocked at Reachman 25
Increases your Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 25.
Reduces the cost of your Ultimate abilities by 5%.

Rank II - Unlocked at Reachman 35
Increases your Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 50.
Reduces the cost of your Ultimate abilities by 10%.

Rank III - Unlocked at Reachman 50
Increases your Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 75.
Reduces the cost of your Ultimate abilities by 15%.

This sounds kinda broken.
My favorite race is imperial and id like to have all kinds of racial bonuses added that suited my play-style and made me bot have to put much effort into playing. But that wouldnt be fair to everyone else

Necrotech_Master

i also think that reachmen are more or less just nords but in a more tribal society than the "refined" ones in say eastmarch

you can "kind of" play as alternate races such as daedra/dremora when using polymorphs (any of the 3 xivkyn polymoprhs, or the maelstrom baron polymorph, physically change your appearance to that of a daedra/dremora, even alters your characters voice)

Tyrvarion

ankeor wrote: »

Reachmen are not welcomed in any place in Tamriel.
Lore wise you should be locked out of any city.

Except if you played Greymoor you can hear npc talking about Reachmen in Solitude even before the peace was signed. Not welcome but still not killed on sight. And traveling merchant in Blackwood talking that there are Reachmen around in neutral words (even though indeed we don't see any in Leyawiin except for a single Reachwoman next to castle Giovesse). We also have proof that there are Reachfolk in the Undaunted, in high ranks and Fargrave has plenty of Reachmen , for instance stable master. There are some in Dunmer Wretched Spire in Deadlands.

As for them not being one race but mix of many - first of all not mix with Nords but with anything with Orcs. Direnni made sure there was not much Nords there. Imperial is also not exactly well defined either in lore beside the culture. Reachman are according to current new lore indeed a separate ( if similar) race to Bretons. And also Tes was not always only 10 races , Morrowind added 2. What is last there was once an official pool with questions what players want as new feature and content from ESO . New race was among the options there. So it means that at least at some point they considered that as something possible.

Supreme_Atromancer

As others have pointed out, Reachfolk are Bretons, albeit with a distinct culture. In TES5, Reachmen were always Bretons. The same seems to be the case in ESO. Their Breton heritage is part of their story. We don't need it as a new race.

Elsonso

Brrrofski wrote: »

TES as a series has only ever had 10 playable races

IF that ever changes, it'd be in a game that's part of the main series. Doubt it's be ESO that changes that.

ZOS could change that, but the question is why would they want to? 10 races is a lot of races. There are plenty of other areas they can focus on that will have more impact.

Tyrvarion

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

As others have pointed out, Reachfolk are Bretons, albeit with a distinct culture. In TES5, Reachmen were always Bretons. The same seems to be the case in ESO. Their Breton heritage is part of their story. We don't need it as a new race.

They are using Breton, Imperial and Nord models and in rare cases Nord body models with Breton face models and with occasional eyecolours Breton or Nord or Imperial can't have, nor do they use Breton generic voicelines. Gray host vampires speak that they don't like Reachman blood specifically. The loading screen without an author and few other lore snippets by Reachmen do state that they existed as an unique folk before even Bretons came to existence. In Skyrim Red Eagle uses Draugr model when we know he wasn't one, it is not very credible source on that. Another quest in ESO specifically calls for Reachman blood. several contraband items also specifically make a distinction of their severed body parts. They are not Bretons in lore. Plenty of lore sources make clear distinction between Bretons and Reachmen.

Supreme_Atromancer

Tyrvarion wrote: »

They are using Breton, Imperial and Nord models and in rare cases Nord body models with Breton face models and with occasional eyecolours Breton or Nord or Imperial can't have

I'm not convinced that this is the case. Do you have proof of this?

nor do they use Breton generic voicelines.

They have gaelic-styled accents to match their gaelic-styled names. The whole divide between Bretons and Reachmen was inspired by The Matter of Britain.

The loading screen without an author and few other lore snippets by Reachmen do state that they existed as an unique folk before even Bretons came to existence.

Which loading screen? I know there's something suggesting Gherig Bullblood's Nedic heritage, but that doesn't support this.

In Skyrim Red Eagle uses Draugr model when we know he wasn't one

So is Curalmil, who in life was a High Elf. Also, if you're a high enough level when you encounter Red Eagle, he'll actually be a Dragon Priest. Its a game limitation and can't be used as evidence.

Another quest in ESO specifically calls for Reachman blood. several contraband items also specifically make a distinction of their severed body parts.

That seems just as likely as being some sort of mystical thing, though. There are no genetics in TES.

They are not Bretons in lore. Plenty of lore sources make clear distinction between Bretons and Reachmen.

The Pocket Guides to the Empire, which are primary sources describe them as the same race, acknowledging, however that neither people considers the other kindred due to the bitter hatred between them. In Skyrim, ALL Reachmen are Bretons. You can talk to some of the Bretons living in Markarth and they will explain the disctinction. There is one Breton who is mistaken for a Reachman, which he vehemently denies. The assumption is that the confusion arises because they are the same race.

Bretons arose due to Nedic people being subjugated by Direnni, and selectively bred with. This is true of both Those Bretons on the Iliac, and those in The Reach. The differences in culture is due to the marginal lands, the isolation, and the fact that the Reachmen remained longest under the control of the Direnni, according to the PGE.

Vevvev

Tyrvarion wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

As others have pointed out, Reachfolk are Bretons, albeit with a distinct culture. In TES5, Reachmen were always Bretons. The same seems to be the case in ESO. Their Breton heritage is part of their story. We don't need it as a new race.

Gray host vampires speak that they don't like Reachman blood specifically.

Blood tastes different based on lifestyle as well as race so that doesn't hold up very well as an argument to say they're a unique race.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Tancano's_Journal

Tyrvarion

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Tyrvarion wrote: »

They are using Breton, Imperial and Nord models and in rare cases Nord body models with Breton face models and with occasional eyecolours Breton or Nord or Imperial can't have

I'm not convinced that this is the case. Do you have proof of this?
.

Nord model :
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sister_Balra

Imperial model:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Gorbarth

Breton model:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Arana

Breton face on Nord body:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Bradan

Unique eye coloration:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-npc-Apprentice_Fialyn.jpg

As for quote:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Lost_Valley_Redoubt
(Long before Elves or Nords conquered the region of Karth, tribes of humans inhabited the caves of the Druadach Mountains. It was in these dark places they learned of their new purpose, and it was there they sang songs of fading dreams.)
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Nchuand-Zel
(And unto the mountains they fled, for the world grew dark with shadows which sprung from the heart of Lorkh, who though greatly sundered still believed in the light of Man. —Vateshran Eoinola)

The second quote explicitly refers to the times when Lorkhan heart was ripped off, long before altmer got to conquer Nedes of High Rock.

There very much is a lot of genetics in TES.Altmer have entire faculties devoted to eugenics, which are related to genetics.

I suggest reading the wiki page for Reachmen since they indeed got a lot of new lore in recent dlc lastyear ago.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Reachmen

Another link that is worth checking is the one of the dev interview where it was said:
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/elder-scrolls-online-lore-answers
"Though the Reachmen are related to the Bretons, they consider themselves a separate race (and so do the Bretons). The Reachmen are not a playable race, as they’re basically enemies to everyone"

Naturally since then the Reachmen got explored quite thoroughly with multiple Reachmend who in fact are not 'enemies to everyone'. Indeed they are related to Bretons but just because they are related does not mean they are the same.

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

So is Curalmil, who in life was a High Elf. Also, if you're a high enough level when you encounter Red Eagle, he'll actually be a Dragon Priest. Its a game limitation and can't be used as evidence.

Indeed it cant. I agree with you. that is why I say that the fact that Reachmen are Bretons in Skyrim data means nothing since every Breton in Reach and all Reachmen will tell you that they are not the same in TES 5. for instance Gelebor (ancient Snow Elf ) is coded as Altmer since thats just more efficient than making new code for race for 2 individuals.

Gaebriel0410

What keeps you from making a Reachman character? They're related to Bretons, and humans in the setting look similar enough that you could use any of them to make a Reachman, depending on the options you want. Except Redguard maybe due to their generally darker skintones.

There's plenty of savage looking armour and warpaint available, and you can access part of their homelands. There's appropriate houses, including the repurposed dwarven stuff, furnishing, everything!

The only thing off would be your race tag saying Breton/Nord/whateveryoupick and that's such a minor thing that it really won't ruin the immersion I think.

Supreme_Atromancer

@Tyrvarion

Tyrvarion wrote: »

They are using Breton, Imperial and Nord models and in rare cases Nord body models with Breton face models and with occasional eyecolours Breton or Nord or Imperial can't have

Those examples are all 100% Bretons. In fact, the only one that presents some doubt is Balra. I managed to capture her look using a Breton.

http://imgur.com/a/ZVxXLIn

"Though the Reachmen are related to the Bretons, they consider themselves a separate race (and so do the Bretons). The Reachmen are not a playable race, as they’re basically enemies to everyone"

Naturally since then the Reachmen got explored quite thoroughly with multiple Reachmend who in fact are not 'enemies to everyone'. Indeed they are related to Bretons but just because they are related does not mean they are the same.

They aren't the same. Culturally, they are very distinct. But they are the same race.

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

So is Curalmil, who in life was a High Elf. Also, if you're a high enough level when you encounter Red Eagle, he'll actually be a Dragon Priest. Its a game limitation and can't be used as evidence.

Indeed it cant. I agree with you. that is why I say that the fact that Reachmen are Bretons in Skyrim data means nothing since every Breton in Reach and all Reachmen will tell you that they are not the same in TES 5. for instance Gelebor (ancient Snow Elf ) is coded as Altmer since thats just more efficient than making new code for race for 2 individuals.

Those are two very distinct situations though. The effort of making a new model for ONE SINGLE side encounter is not the same argument for why they would choose to use, exclusively, in every single instance, a Breton model for Reachmen when they have at their disposal the possibility of using any race they wish. But they don't. We never see Redguard Reachmen. Ever. Nor Nord. Not one. The Reachmen in Skyrim are 100% Bretons every time.

As for quote:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Lost_Valley_Redoubt
(Long before Elves or Nords conquered the region of Karth, tribes of humans inhabited the caves of the Druadach Mountains. It was in these dark places they learned of their new purpose, and it was there they sang songs of fading dreams.)
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Nchuand-Zel
(And unto the mountains they fled, for the world grew dark with shadows which sprung from the heart of Lorkh, who though greatly sundered still believed in the light of Man. —Vateshran Eoinola)

The second quote explicitly refers to the times when Lorkhan heart was ripped off, long before altmer got to conquer Nedes of High Rock.

Yeah, but these are ancestral tales that harken back to their Nedic roots. The same roots they share with other Bretons. Unity in Nedic heritage, region and isolation (10 generations if we believe Khosey's Tracteates), distinction in their Direnni blood, which sets them apart from other races descendant from the Nedes.

Pocket Guide to the Empire, 3rd ed, wrote:

The early Nedic people who arrived (in High Rock) next were stumbling upon a highly sophisticated culture, and were quickly overwhelmed and absorbed (by the Direnni).

Pocket Guide to the Empire, 1st ed, wrote:

The Reachmen are a mongrel breed, even for Bretons.

The Madmen of The Reach, wrote:

It is this incongruity that led me to Markarth, the capital city of the Reach, in search of answers. There, I met one of the native peoples, an old woman who preferred to not be named in my writings. She told me of her family's long history. How she believes they originally came from High Rock, home of the Bretons (which would explain the similar faces and stature of the two peoples).

Anton Virane wrote:

"Yes, yes, for the hundredth time, I am a Breton. I was born in High Rock. And then I came here. I am not a Reachman!"...

"No. I'm a Breton from High Rock, and I refuse to be mistaken for a filthy native. I don't care if we share the same ancestors, these people are savages. Half of them are Forsworn barbarians, and have you seen what they eat? What have I done for the gods to take me so far from my beloved Daggerfall?"

Emphases are my inclusions, for clarity.

Reachmen undoubtedly share Breton blood. The *vast*, vast number- if not every single one of them- appear as Bretons when they appear in the Elder Scrolls games. This makes sense, because they have the same heritage; early nedes who emigrated to the region that would eventually be called High Rock, were dominated and bred into by the Aldmer they found there, and being isolated for some period of time. Yes, there are drastic cultural differences, and even some differences in blood (the Direnni remained longest in The Western Reach), but the degree to which this requires they be treated as a separate race, when the race they have *always* been allocated has served every purpose when just treated with a different culture, with different aesthetic (different styles, different cosmetics) is doubtful.

Tyrvarion

@Supreme_Atromancer
Those examples I provided are very much not all Breton - only the ones I said that they are (so Arana and Fialyn). Barla is 100% using Nord model and so is a lot of Reachmen in ESO. I suggest doing Reach mainquest and standing next to Bradan he is way above the size of average Breton and has the Nord bodytype rather than scaled up Breton one.
I wasn't one to find those examples.(except Fialyn) UESP wiki discord found them almost a year ago. I am aware that earlier lore called Reachmen Bretons on few occasions. Those texts are written from the Imeprial perspective though and are generally biased at times on purpose. Certain older lore texts also called some Argonians Hists, yet we know it was changed ever since then. In ESO (and this is this game's forum) they are portrayed as something different. In Skyrim, every single NPC be it breton or Reachmen clearly says that they are not the same.

In TES 5 even the Reachmen who live in Markarth and follow the Imperial/Nord culture are not seen as Bretons. I shown you examples of distincet and much older society than Bretons. Not all Nedes were the same - for instance Keptu skintone is much daker than modern Imperials or Bretons (at least I recall this being said in interview), Kothringi are silver and Orma are born without eyes - and all are Nedic.Reachmen also claim partial ancestry from aforementioned Keptu - this is very much not a speculation but a fact- similarity in designs (especially snake imagery in Craglorn Reachmen, and then some siimilarities to celestial culture with their interpretations of constelations as sky tales, several hats with flavour text that state that, usage of nirncrux for rituals), explicit mentions in Meet the character article also seem to be very much on board with them sharing some Keptu blood.

If you want an example from another game than eso - in tes legends all cards are given a racial tag, that is ussually given based on the lore rather than on the gameplay mechanic (since some have questionable gameplay value and one of designers said so in invetrview). All Reachmen cards have tag Reachmen and so do Bretons (or all the races for that matter). Some cards go to rather long lenghts to fit lore such as Mankar Camoran being classified as both Bosmer and Altmer (since despite his model in Oblivion he was very much a child of at leeast one Bosmer parent), or them just making an entire category for a single Ayleid card they have.

Either way this is somewhat off topic. Reachmen are different race (as understood in TES approach - from modern perspective both are Human with a bit of extra something else (Altmer for Breton and , Altmer, Orc and perhaps even Daedra(this part seems to be somewhat demonizing on purpose)) than Bretons (though from the same ethnic group) . But question was whether we will get them as playable race and answer is that I don't think so - but because of the fact that no matter how unique they would be looking they would be yet anothe variation of human and since the Reach alredy was covered in game their addition wouldnt make sense from marketing perspective at any other time period since the themes wont overlap.

Supreme_Atromancer

Tyrvarion wrote: »

Barla is 100% using Nord model and so is a lot of Reachmen in ESO. I suggest doing Reach amainquest and standing next to Bradan he is way above the size of average Breton and has the Nord bodytype rather than scaled up Breton one.

Here is a picture of a Nord at max height, standing next to Lyris Titanborn. Is this evidence that Lyris is not a nord? No. They simply scaled her up. Why would they go to all the trouble of putting a "Breton head on a Nord body" when all they had to do was scale him up? Likewise, if he's not meant to be a Breton, why bother with a Breton head at all?

Imperials have a very distinct look in the face, as do the Bretons. Your "Imperial" is absolutely a Breton, with a very characteristically Imperial haircut.

I am aware that earlier lore called Reachmen Bretons on few occasions. Those texts are written from the Imeprial perspective though and are generally biased at times on purpose.

I think you are seeking to diminish the point here, but you have no basis to do so. Why does it matter if its earlier lore? Its lore, and there's nothing specifically written to trump it. Further, the sources you've shared are just as open to bias. It doesn't state the Reachmen are a separate race, it says they consider themselves to be. Unreliable narrator as a device is a feature of the whole series, and not just limited to the Imperials. Neither does it mean that anything an Imperial writes is necessarily false.

Here is another post from the same developers, I've highlighted what is an absolute statement, and not conjecture:

Will the Forsworn faction be implemented in The Elder Scrolls Online?
The Forsworn are a faction of the Reachmen that exists in the Fourth Era during the time of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. While the Reachmen are mainly of Breton stock, they have their own culture and society and don't consider themselves Bretons – and the Bretons agree.

Source: https://imperial-library.info/content/elder-scrolls-online-lore-answers

Their culture and society are distinct, but they are Bretons.

In ESO (and this is this game's forum) they are portrayed as something different. In Skyrim, every single NPC be it breton or Reachmen clearly says that they are not the same.

This is a lot of exaggeration. The vast majority of them don't talk about it. You can find one or two which discuss it. And it doesn't matter which game's forum, unless you want to argue that ESO's lore is separate from the rest of the franchise, despite the developers of both franchises agreeing its the exact same canon. Therefore, all sources should be considered.

In TES 5 even the Reachmen who live in Markarth and follow the Imperial/Nord culture are not seen as Bretons.

They are subject to the Nord culture. And culture isn't evidence of anything. We're talking about race.

I shown you examples of distincet and much older society than Bretons. Not all Nedes were the same - for instance Keptu skintone is much daker than modern Imperials or Bretons (at least I recall this being said in interview), Kothringi are silver and Orma are born without eyes - and all are Nedic.Reachmen also claim partial ancestry from aforementioned Keptu - this is very much not a speculation but a fact- similarity in designs (especially snake imagery in Craglorn Reachmen, and then some siimilarities to celestial culture with their interpretations of constelations as sky tales, several hats with flavour text that state that, usage of nirncrux for rituals), explicit mentions in Meet the character article also seem to be very much on board with them sharing some Keptu blood.

This is not in dispute. Reachmen claim that they are descendants of the Nedes, and Keptu are amongst the tribes they consider some of the Reachfolk to be descended from. Other Bretons were likewise descended from the Nedes. They were Nedes that were in the North Western part of Tamriel later to become known as High Rock who were subjugated by Aldmer clans including the Direnni, who bred with them, the results of which were the Bretons. How is this any different?

Either way this is somewhat off topic.

Its not. The question of whether we need a separate race for Reachmen presupposes that they are a separate race, and that's not a statement that the evidence supports.

Fazuszek

No, we cant.