Balance is better than ever....

EmperorIl

-Signed, Magplars


Seriously though come on, Magplars are just stupid right now. There is a reason why it feels like 50% of Cyro is running Magplar.....they are. Why? Because it's just stupid right now.

McTaterskins

EmperorIl wrote: »

-Signed, Magplars


Seriously though come on, Magplars are just stupid right now. There is a reason why it feels like 50% of Cyro is running Magplar.....they are. Why? Because it's just stupid right now.

Nah, it's more like 30-40% Magplar, 30-40% MagDK. But you might be right to, lol.

Fazuszek

SImple answer - its the bubble

Mayrael

McTaterskins wrote: »

EmperorIl wrote: »

-Signed, Magplars


Seriously though come on, Magplars are just stupid right now. There is a reason why it feels like 50% of Cyro is running Magplar.....they are. Why? Because it's just stupid right now.

Nah, it's more like 30-40% Magplar, 30-40% MagDK. But you might be right to, lol.

This is more accurate

MEBengalsFan2001

EmperorIl wrote: »

-Signed, Magplars


Seriously though come on, Magplars are just stupid right now. There is a reason why it feels like 50% of Cyro is running Magplar.....they are. Why? Because it's just stupid right now.

I see a variety of classes and builds in the game. It is not all Magplar or MagDK.

The only build I rarely see is Magden. Otherwise I see a good mixture.

Drdeath20

Please elaborate

Otherwise all your post says is you seem to think alot of players like to play cyrodil with specific classes. Not much substance to work with

Kryptonite_Kent

Simple answer here is this is the tank / heal meta (which is dumb)... guess which 2 classes are super tanky and super healy?? magplars and DKs... so yeah thats why youre seeing so many.

EmperorIl

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Simple answer here is this is the tank / heal meta (which is dumb)... guess which 2 classes are super tanky and super healy?? magplars and DKs... so yeah thats why youre seeing so many.

Only one of these can still put out a ton of burst damage. DK isn't so bad either, esp with corrosive armor uptime.

AdamLAD

All i see in cyrodill is ball groups running DC and plaguebreak. Nightblades running Caluurions. Temps holding LB for days spamming jabs and breath. And Dks abusing there new tool kit. All of which have something relatively broken about them. Blocking is such a massive issue no which ones talking about. You can have massive amounts of mitigation whilst having a massive up time. The balance is absolutely awful lol. But i can live with it. What i can't live with is performance. Its literally the only reason i die.

EmperorIl

AdamLAD wrote: »

All i see in cyrodill is ball groups running DC and plaguebreak. Nightblades running Caluurions. Temps holding LB for days spamming jabs and breath. And Dks abusing there new tool kit. All of which have something relatively broken about them. Blocking is such a massive issue no which ones talking about. You can have massive amounts of mitigation whilst having a massive up time. The balance is absolutely awful lol. But i can live with it. What i can't live with is performance. Its literally the only reason i die.

Not sure I can live with the balance much longer, I quit before during a meta about a year ago that felt very much like this one, but this one might be worse. Might need a break soon because it just isn't fun a lot of the time between balance and performance. I quit playing at primetime now, because why bother when skills and bar swap won't even work.

Larcomar

Honestly, balance feels pretty good right now. Maybe magplars are a bit overtuned from what Ive seen, the rest, not so much. Magdks got a sustain boost, but their sustain was dire before. Wardens maybe took a bit too much of a hit to artic blast. Cloak is probably a bit OP in current form. But it's better than it has been for a long time anyway.

As has been said multiple times on these forums, we're just in a more defensive meta right now and yes, mechanical acuity got nerfed so nightblades are having to work harder for kills. Still see an awful lot of them around though and the good ones seem to be doing pretty well.

katorga

Larcomar wrote: »

Honestly, balance feels pretty good right now. Maybe magplars are a bit overtuned from what Ive seen, the rest, not so much. .

I don't like waffle words like "a bit overtuned". ZOS does not tune.

AdamLAD wrote: »

All of which have something relatively broken about them.

That is balance.

The class that takes the longest to complete my "kill 20" quest seems to be wardens. There are a lot of dark convergence tanks, regardless of what class they are.

divnyi

Shock! Players that want to play meta classes play meta classes!

Unironically, we are in one of the best metas today. Dot meta was worse. Proc meta was worse. Hrothgar+DC meta was absolutely horrible. It looks like PvP players will never be happy.

Vaoh

divnyi wrote: »

Shock! Players that want to play meta classes play meta classes!

Unironically, we are in one of the best metas today. Dot meta was worse. Proc meta was worse. Hrothgar+DC meta was absolutely horrible. It looks like PvP players will never be happy.

“Proc meta was worse”

Isn’t it a proc meta rn?

DC, plaguebreak, caluurion... it’s hard to get into a fight without these present. And it’s not just these either.

divnyi

Vaoh wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Shock! Players that want to play meta classes play meta classes!

Unironically, we are in one of the best metas today. Dot meta was worse. Proc meta was worse. Hrothgar+DC meta was absolutely horrible. It looks like PvP players will never be happy.

Isn’t it a proc meta rn?

DC, plaguebreak, caluurion...

Is it on 40k bruisers? No? Then no, it's not proc meta.

OBJnoob

EmperorIl wrote: »

Not sure I can live with the balance much longer, I quit before during a meta about a year ago that felt very much like this one, but this one might be worse. Might need a break soon because it just isn't fun a lot of the time between balance and performance. I quit playing at primetime now, because why bother when skills and bar swap won't even work.

I also quit about 1.5 years ago because of a meta that feels like this. I made a thread once saying that templars are OP and oh my god the backlash. Normally it’ll be a heated debate between two sides… I swear, nobody was on my side!

Now at the moment obviously magdks are as good or maybe even better. I just can’t remember a time when templars weren’t borderline OP. I’ve been playing about 4 years I guess. I’m on Xbox NA and prefer to play in ravenwatch so I’m sure my experience is different from a lot of yours.

I’d say 30% are magplars, 30% are stam blades, and 40% are something else. The magdks I see are tough as nails but honestly maybe without cp the vampire pariah thing isn’t as easy to pull off I dunno… or maybe the lack of mobility people just don’t run it as much in open world.

The freakin magplars though. Oi. There’s so many and they’re so strong like every character I make it fitted to TRY and compete with a magplar. The thing is if they’re as good a player as me then I lose anyway.

If you’re 1v1 then I mean there are things you can do. Shuffle helps. Roll dodging the dark flare or whatever it’s called when they raise their hand,(never played a Templar myself,) helps but truly what’s to stop them from just trying over and over?? Templars are THE reason I wish healing and damage were a different stat.

And in open world it’s probably not a 1v1. You can already have your hands full and this Templar is gonna just start jabbing into your butt. Even on a halfway tanky character you’re forced immediately on the defensive. By a Templar that can repeat a fairly simple combo over and over again, heal to full with one spell and then go right back to jabbing.

I dunno. I’m rambling. Not trying to hijack this thread. Just wondering if anyone recalls a time when magplars weren’t in the top 2.

katorga

divnyi wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Shock! Players that want to play meta classes play meta classes!

Unironically, we are in one of the best metas today. Dot meta was worse. Proc meta was worse. Hrothgar+DC meta was absolutely horrible. It looks like PvP players will never be happy.

Isn’t it a proc meta rn?

DC, plaguebreak, caluurion...

Is it on 40k bruisers? No? Then no, it's not proc meta.

You don't really *need* 40K these days.

ZOS has added so many sources of free or easy to slot sources of % mitigation, players effectively have 30-40% more health than what their character sheet says.

ZOS boosted damage stats across the board so it is more effective to use heals that scale off damage stats than heals that scale off health.

Procs scale off damage and crit now, so again wasting stat on health, and not using procs at all makes zero sense.

IMO, it is still a massive proc meta, just using a different type of stat allocation.

ZOS loves their proc sets. I don' t know why people spend time complaining about them. Every release they add new ones and make them more and more effective. In this game there are only so many permutions of sets you can create the stat lines available unless ZOS starts adding more sets like Trainee or Rattlecage with non-standard values for the lines.

birdik

Balance..

1)Nerf aoe damage/make aoe dodgeable
2)Nerf mana dk & mana plars
3)Make more sources of defile to all classes
4)Give increasing block cost how dodge have
5)Make no using skills in block

Done. Enjoy.

birdik

And make no deathmatch queue finally!

Vaoh

divnyi wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Shock! Players that want to play meta classes play meta classes!

Unironically, we are in one of the best metas today. Dot meta was worse. Proc meta was worse. Hrothgar+DC meta was absolutely horrible. It looks like PvP players will never be happy.

Isn’t it a proc meta rn?

DC, plaguebreak, caluurion...

Is it on 40k bruisers? No? Then no, it's not proc meta.

So everyone wearing 1-3 proc sets which are stronger than ever, is not a proc meta?

Idk if you played back when PvP was actually good in this game (2-3 full campaigns and multiple half full campaigns every day on my server before Morrowind patch) but we used to rely on only our abilities and player skill to get kills, with much less laggy combat.

Valabrog

Any chance you tried high MMR bg recently? Team with more mDK wins, eaz. Damage is so insane, its like double than any other class, unkillable solo and just rips entire teams apart when stacked. Its just a nightmare in BG nowdays, felt like this only during Sloady Magsorc reign period.

divnyi

@Vaoh I play BGs, there is no laggy combat. It is not proc meta. You can use stat sets effectively. Best mDK sets are basically procs that give you stat. Best magplar set combos are just giving you skill damage boost. All proc sets now require you to slot WD/SD to be effective, and you can't just lump 3 proc sets together for the win.

@katorga "there are useful proc sets" != proc set meta. Proc set meta was based on the fact that damage of proc sets didn't scale at all, thus you don't need anything but heavy armor and max HP and char with best HP% heals.

WD/SD influencing heals is bad design choice, but this is a subject of the other thread.

Tiphis

Magplars and magdks are great now. Zos is slowly making their way through all builds. They'll be nerfed into the ground come next patch probably.

Urzigurumash

I play StamDK, but again let me note that it is not possible to say whether MagDK is properly balanced when everybody is a Vampire. Not everybody used to be a Vampire, maybe not everybody always will be. Or maybe they will, I don't know.

Urzigurumash

birdik wrote: »

5)Make no using skills in block

There would have to be some similar nerf to Roll-Dodges and Damage Shields though. Like HoTs not ticking during Roll Dodge cooldown, or something. I'm not exactly sure how your recommendation would work out mechanically. You're saying we should have to manually release block to cast an instant skill?

Dorkener

Braindead easy offense (toppling>sweep ad nauseum), defense (blockcast HtD when overtuned bubble is not enough), add vampire crutch... YEP

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Templar is pretty braindead. Pretty sure they could 1 bar with nothing but sweep and honor the dead and still be decent.

Larcomar

Perhaps, but there are a lot of lower APM players who want to PVP too. It's nice that ZOS gave them a class they can do well on...

Galarthor

McTaterskins wrote: »

EmperorIl wrote: »

-Signed, Magplars


Seriously though come on, Magplars are just stupid right now. There is a reason why it feels like 50% of Cyro is running Magplar.....they are. Why? Because it's just stupid right now.

Nah, it's more like 30-40% Magplar, 30-40% MagDK. But you might be right to, lol.

Can't be. According to the forum's common knowledge ever since lauch 90% of players in Cyro have been Magsorcs b/c they have always been that OP.

katorga

divnyi wrote: »

@Vaoh I play BGs, there is no laggy combat. It is not proc meta. You can use stat sets effectively. Best mDK sets are basically procs that give you stat. Best magplar set combos are just giving you skill damage boost. All proc sets now require you to slot WD/SD to be effective, and you can't just lump 3 proc sets together for the win.

@katorga "there are useful proc sets" != proc set meta. Proc set meta was based on the fact that damage of proc sets didn't scale at all, thus you don't need anything but heavy armor and max HP and char with best HP% heals.

WD/SD influencing heals is bad design choice, but this is a subject of the other thread.

Oh it is a proc meta. The entire kill chain is built around tanky classes running specific combinations of proc sets. and aligning their skill choices to facilitate the proc sets.

Meta Group?
DC / Vicious Death + eye of storm, pulsar, radiating regen for the mag players
PB/Vicious Death + spin2win for the stam players. aoe morph of vigor
At least two sorcs for negates

Other than negates, does class even matter? As always some classes are better suited to leverage the meta than others, but it works with anything.

xDeusEJRx

katorga wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

@Vaoh I play BGs, there is no laggy combat. It is not proc meta. You can use stat sets effectively. Best mDK sets are basically procs that give you stat. Best magplar set combos are just giving you skill damage boost. All proc sets now require you to slot WD/SD to be effective, and you can't just lump 3 proc sets together for the win.

@katorga "there are useful proc sets" != proc set meta. Proc set meta was based on the fact that damage of proc sets didn't scale at all, thus you don't need anything but heavy armor and max HP and char with best HP% heals.

WD/SD influencing heals is bad design choice, but this is a subject of the other thread.

Oh it is a proc meta. The entire kill chain is built around tanky classes running specific combinations of proc sets. and aligning their skill choices to facilitate the proc sets.

Meta Group?
DC / Vicious Death + eye of storm, pulsar, radiating regen for the mag players
PB/Vicious Death + spin2win for the stam players. aoe morph of vigor
At least two sorcs for negates

Other than negates, does class even matter? As always some classes are better suited to leverage the meta than others, but it works with anything.

Sounds like the usual meta for years. Hasn't eye of the storm pulsar spamming proxy bombers always been meta on mag ball groups for ages? Only problem now is proxy doesn't deal full damage now against small groups

And stam has always been s2w meta spam(we forgot stamden s2w meta prior to their heals getting nerfed?), only difference now they have their own form of a bomb build they can use.

As far as I can remember, I don't think this was never not the strongest setups ever since procs have been the meta thing to use in pvp