Endeavor coins amount nerfed

DavGlen

I guess it's pretty much safe now to asume that the amount of daily endeavor coins has been significantly nerfed. 10 out of 13 of the last days have been only 10 coins. During the previous months it was pretty normal to consistently see days with 20-25 coins per endeavor, which are like a thing of the past now. Thoughts? I don't see this addressed anywhere.

colossalvoids

Not sure what to address or discuss, their sole reason was to find a way around gambling regulations and MS policy, not to actually give us reliable way of getting crate contents. I'd expect it to be even worse in a future, I'm almost at radiant apex count already which is pretty fast I would say.

phaneub17_ESO

Always assume 10 is the norm and anything above that is bonus. 210 a week from daily and at least 150 from weekly is the lowest.

Kiralyn2000

DavGlen wrote: »

Thoughts? I don't see this addressed anywhere.

There was a thread about it within the last month, with charts & everything.

edit: here, from Jan 3
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7482781

(my personal thoughts: yeah, the daily average has gone down a bit. but the weekly went back up, certainly an improvement from the weeks when it was 160-180. Also, I'm really not that stressed about it. Endeavor seals will come, things will be bought. Whatever. /shrug)

Castian

Also keep in mind it is a handout like the daily login reward. We weren't entitled to a means of purchasing crown crate items with virtual currency.

Darian_Rath

You can't just look at daily values in a vacuum. They need to be considered beside the weekly endeavor value and averaged out together.

As daily values dropped, weekly values have gone up from what I've seen. Which shows that ZOS is probably considering the fact that not everyone has time to play every day, but probably a few times a week.

This helps to mitigate endeavor losses for people with lower available play time while keeping the week over week income roughly the same.

spartaxoxo

As others have noted total seals per week has remained largely the same but daily went down while weekly went up. The said from the beginning they didn't want it to be a daily grind and instead basically we'd rack up seals as we played normally with minimal extra effort.

So my guess is they didn't want people to feel pressure to get 3/3 each day so they de-emphasized the daily and instead gave out more for the weekly, so that the bulk of the seals came from that instead of grinding out endeavors each day.

Nisekev

Castian wrote: »

Also keep in mind it is a handout like the daily login reward. We weren't entitled to a means of purchasing crown crate items with virtual currency.

It's not a handout, it's a login bait that requires actual effort to acquire.

daim

Nisekev wrote: »

Castian wrote: »

Also keep in mind it is a handout like the daily login reward. We weren't entitled to a means of purchasing crown crate items with virtual currency.

It's not a handout, it's a login bait that requires actual effort to acquire.

Its also a loophole in a specific aspect.

Ragnork

I use this site https://eso-hub.com/en/endeavors to find out what the endeavors are for today (I like to look it up during morning coffee break)
There is also a graph of the daily and weekly rewards.
It looks pretty consistent to me.

Danikat

This is the topic where someone made charts tracking the number of seals over time: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/discussion/594811/eso-endeavors-the-first-200-days

Probably the most important chart for most players is this one, showing the combined total of daily and weekly seals over time:


So yes, there has been a noticeable downward trend over time.

I suspect ZOS started off experimenting and found there was no significant different in the number or type of endeavours completed when more seals were available so they concluded there was no need to offer more.

Especially since as other people have said the system doesn't exist to help players but to make a show of complying with Microsoft's policy on loot boxes (which is that everything in the boxes can also be earned in-game), which is itself an attempt to discourage legislation by showing the industry is taking steps to discourage excessive gambling.

Edited because I linked to the wrong chart last time.

Cadbury

colossalvoids wrote: »

Not sure what to address or discuss, their sole reason was to find a way around gambling regulations and MS policy, not to actually give us reliable way of getting crate contents. I'd expect it to be even worse in a future, I'm almost at radiant apex count already which is pretty fast I would say.

^this

At the end of the day, it was a smart business move and a way to get newer players more exposed to the crown crates without stepping on any legislative toes.

Kiralyn2000

Danikat wrote: »

Probably the most important chart for most players is this one, showing the combined total of daily and weekly seals over time:


So yes, there has been a noticeable downward trend over time.

Hmm, that chart doesn't seem right, considering that the right side is around 250... and that's around what the weekly by itself has been the last few weeks. So how can that be the total of weekly+daily? Or am I reading that wrong?

...ah, yes, I was. That's just the total of the dailies, not the weekly. (10x3)x7 would be 210. So 2-3 days of 15's would push that to ~250.


Eh, no biggie.
(plus, I'd like to see the next month or two now, to see if it stays steady at '10 most days, 15 on a couple')

Danikat

Oh yeah, I copied the wrong image. Here's the one for daily and weekly seals combined:

Necrotech_Master

Danikat wrote: »

Oh yeah, I copied the wrong image. Here's the one for daily and weekly seals combined:

based on that they seem to have stabilized some in terms of weekly amounts, the last 2 months were between 470-505 each week for totals

if that trend stays (of approx 500 per week total), that would be around 32 weeks (8 months) to save 16000 needed for radiant apex mount

so if you never bought anything else with seals that is basically 1.5 radiant apex mounts a year

Kiralyn2000

And today's are 20's.

Tandor

As far as I'm concerned, it's not simply about the seals, there are very few things I'm interested in buying with them and nothing very expensive. However, the gold and experience always come in handy for my lower level characters so they are a useful complement to the seals. I've no idea how their frequency and amount have varied since Endeavours began.

Elsonso

Danikat wrote: »

Especially since as other people have said the system doesn't exist to help players but to make a show of complying with Microsoft's policy on loot boxes (which is that everything in the boxes can also be earned in-game), which is itself an attempt to discourage legislation by showing the industry is taking steps to discourage excessive gambling.

This. The Seals do not need to compete against Gems and Crowns, just be an alternative. I expect ZOS will find a level of disbursement that meets their Crown Store goals, meets the intention of the system, and still feels somewhat rewarding to players.

I also want to point out that the 100-days chart and the from-the-start chart show different trends.

katorga

Nisekev wrote: »

Castian wrote: »

Also keep in mind it is a handout like the daily login reward. We weren't entitled to a means of purchasing crown crate items with virtual currency.

It's not a handout, it's a login bait that requires actual effort to acquire.

Endeavor coins are ZOS's mitigation for the fact that in-game gambling, which crown crates qualify as, is illegal in in multiple countries where ESO is sold.

It is not a handout. It is ZOS's attempt to avoid legal liability.

Danikat

katorga wrote: »

Nisekev wrote: »

Castian wrote: »

Also keep in mind it is a handout like the daily login reward. We weren't entitled to a means of purchasing crown crate items with virtual currency.

It's not a handout, it's a login bait that requires actual effort to acquire.

Endeavor coins are ZOS's mitigation for the fact that in-game gambling, which crown crates qualify as, is illegal in in multiple countries where ESO is sold.

It is not a handout. It is ZOS's attempt to avoid legal liability.

Do you know which countries have made it illegal?

The only one I'm aware of is Belgium, and ZOS solved that problem by not allowing players in Belgium to buy crown crates. I didn't realise any other countries had actually put it into law, just that they were considering it.

Elsonso

katorga wrote: »

It is ZOS's attempt to avoid legal liability.

It is probably safest to just say it is ZOS complying with Microsoft/XBox policy. People can speculate as to why the policy is there, but for ZOS, it seems that it was the policy that resulted in the system being added. The system was released right around the same time that the purchase was closed and ZOS was fully under XBox control, so it is not an unfounded perspective.

(Note: Causality also lends the idea that it allows players in countries where loot boxes cannot be purchased to get the items in those loot boxes, and that the coincidence of the announcement of the system at the time of close is just that, a coincidence.)

spartaxoxo

Elsonso wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

Especially since as other people have said the system doesn't exist to help players but to make a show of complying with Microsoft's policy on loot boxes (which is that everything in the boxes can also be earned in-game), which is itself an attempt to discourage legislation by showing the industry is taking steps to discourage excessive gambling.

This. The Seals do not need to compete against Gems and Crowns, just be an alternative. I expect ZOS will find a level of disbursement that meets their Crown Store goals, meets the intention of the system, and still feels somewhat rewarding to players.

I also want to point out that the 100-days chart and the from-the-start chart show different trends.

This is the most important chart imo because it ignores the bonus stuff that was intended to just promote the new feature.

Kiralyn2000

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This is the most important chart imo because it ignores the bonus stuff that was intended to just promote the new feature.

I figure the early levels (and the way it jumped around a lot) was also them testing to see what engagement they got at what levels of reward & task. Calibrating the system.

kargen27

colossalvoids wrote: »

Not sure what to address or discuss, their sole reason was to find a way around gambling regulations and MS policy, not to actually give us reliable way of getting crate contents. I'd expect it to be even worse in a future, I'm almost at radiant apex count already which is pretty fast I would say.

The Microsoft policy does not apply to existing games they acquire. It does apply to games still under development. More countries especially in Europe are creating laws restricting loot boxes so the response is probably to those new laws.

SilverBride

What difference does it make why they are doing it? It's free stuff for no or little effort.

And of course they are going to tweak the system as they evaluate it now that it's live. I don't know why that is so surprising.

MasterSpatula

As long as you remember that the Crate system is inherently unethical, you won't really be disappointed by any behavior related to it.

MEBengalsFan2001

Look at this, another thread about people complaining about getting free stuff. Endeavor seals are a FREE way to buy crown crate items. Again FREE. Just like daily awards are FREE items for just logging into the game.

I see no problem here with how endeavor seals are awarded.

Necrotech_Master

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Look at this, another thread about people complaining about getting free stuff. Endeavor seals are a FREE way to buy crown crate items. Again FREE. Just like daily awards are FREE items for just logging into the game.

I see no problem here with how endeavor seals are awarded.

i think the thing that people complain about usually is the earn rate vs the cost of the items

if daily endeavor gave us 1 seal instead of 10 and weekly was 20 instead of 200, but they kept the costs at the current values, instead of taking max of 8 months to get the most expensive item, it would take 8 months to get even the cheapest items

that would be the way i would see it, if the earn rate was any lower than it was now, i would be supporting either cost reductions on seals to buy stuff, or raising the amount we were getting from the tasks

its still kind of slow now, but still isnt too bad compared to some other systems ive seen

Cadbury

Jusey1

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Look at this, another thread about people complaining about getting free stuff. Endeavor seals are a FREE way to buy crown crate items. Again FREE. Just like daily awards are FREE items for just logging into the game.

I see no problem here with how endeavor seals are awarded.

It's free stuff using to manipulate the market and the audience to buy into gambling crates since the system does flat-out expose you to those gambling crates, and the extremely low amount of free currency you get in comparison to the prices is suppose to be discourage you from using the free option, but rather buy into the gambling option and get yourself addicted to said option.

On top of that, this free option makes their gambling crate look nicer to the people who makes the laws and are suppose to stopping this vile system in the first place... All forms of these gambling boxes just honestly needs to be eradicated completely but nothing will change if people keeps buying into it or defending it cause Capitalism will always find a way via loopholes to keep doing dirty things.

Cadbury wrote: »

A Trojan horse isn't a real gift though.

Castian

Nisekev wrote: »

Castian wrote: »

Also keep in mind it is a handout like the daily login reward. We weren't entitled to a means of purchasing crown crate items with virtual currency.

It's not a handout, it's a login bait that requires actual effort to acquire.

Right, because Recharge your weapon, adjust your Outfit or pick up 8 resources from the ground are truly arduous.
The daily endeavors on the whole are effortless.