PvP currently is horrible (Battlegrounds)

Jeremy

First and foremost - and to those who are saying "tanking" is out of control in PvP - there is no "tanking" in this game's battlegrounds. If you are having trouble killing someone, let me tell you right now it's not because of their defense. Health and armor are nearly useless right now at keeping you alive. So let's stop pretending it's because players are "tanky". That's a misdiagnosis of the problem.

What you have are a lot of offensive characters running around with insane burst damage and heals, mowing people down then healing back up. Damage and heals are just ridiculous right now. I'm convinced if PvP is ever going to made into something that's fun for the general public again then these two stats need to be separated somehow. Because otherwise everyone who doesn't play a build that centers around high offense and healing are going to be made miserable.

It's also nearly impossible to defend yourself if you get ganged up on by multiple players in this current state of PvP. Unless you have insane mobility you are going to go splat. Even with max resistance /impenetrable and over 50k health and high health regen, you will literally die in less than a second by a coordinated burst of skilled players (no that's not an exaggeration). This means that offense > defense every time. Offense can be stacked by multiple players and defense cannot, which makes it a useless strategy in any situation that isn't 1v1. They need to add abilities that increase a player's defense based on how many players are attacking them so tanks can actually exist in this game's PvP again. Otherwise, everyone is just going to kite with high offense and heals and there will be no diversity of gameplay.

Also, and just a heads up, but for those who may want to reply to this post I am no longer replying to anyone on this public forum because I am incompatible with this forum's rules. So if you wish to discuss this topic with me or want a response from me, please direct your post to my personal inbox and we can exchange thoughts there. Because otherwise I will not see or respond to it.

Soris

I agree, what you are saying is mostly true but maybe defensively you are doing it wrong.

You dont have to have 50k health or high health regen (which is a useless stat nowadays) You just need to have 30kish armor and high (+5k) spell/weapon damage plus some speed. It is relatively easy to reach those numbers thanks to the new mhytic and monster sets such as magma and majesty.

Really, no need for a pure tank setup. Just equip minor and major protection and major evasion along with those stats or similar, you are now a tank in an offensive build.

And of course you need to actively defend yourself in any build. No setup will give you free get out of jail card. But I agree new and interesting defensive options are needed. Templar's Blazing Shield for one. It used to be a nice mechanic.

Ratharel

If you expect to hold the ground against coordinated attack of four players with PvP oriented builds, then joke is on you. Tanks were kings of objective BG matches for a very long time, as it's rarely you stand alone against whole enemy team and then some. Lots of good tanks were able to keep the flag against 2 or 3 players.

Dem_kitkats1

Jeremy wrote: »

First and foremost - and to those who are saying "tanking" is out of control in PvP - there is no "tanking" in this game's battlegrounds. If you are having trouble killing someone, let me tell you right now it's not because of their defense. Health and armor are nearly useless right now at keeping you alive. So let's stop pretending it's because players are "tanky". That's a misdiagnosis of the problem.

What you have are a lot of offensive characters running around with insane burst damage and heals, mowing people down then healing back up. Damage and heals are just ridiculous right now. I'm convinced if PvP is ever going to made into something that's fun for the general public again then these two stats need to be separated somehow. Because otherwise everyone who doesn't play a build that centers around high offense and healing are going to be made miserable.

It's also nearly impossible to defend yourself if you get ganged up on by multiple players in this current state of PvP. Unless you have insane mobility you are going to go splat. Even with max resistance /impenetrable and over 50k health and high health regen, you will literally die in less than a second by a coordinated burst of skilled players (no that's not an exaggeration). This means that offense > defense every time. Offense can be stacked by multiple players and defense cannot, which makes it a useless strategy in any situation that isn't 1v1. They need to add abilities that increase a player's defense based on how many players are attacking them so tanks can actually exist in this game's PvP again. Otherwise, everyone is just going to kite with high offense and heals and there will be no diversity of gameplay.

Also, and just a heads up, but for those who may want to reply to this post I am no longer replying to anyone on this public forum because I am incompatible with this forum's rules. So if you wish to discuss this topic with me or want a response from me, please direct your post to my personal inbox and we can exchange thoughts there. Because otherwise I will not see or respond to it.

I agree the problem is that healing is connected to your spell/weapon damage. It's pretty sad when even lowbies is either a stompfest or a ticklefight because of the amount of healing. If you're against a coordinated team there's really no counter to the amount of damage and healing they have accessible to them, unless you're lucky to get an experienced healer or you're in a coordinated group as well. You don't need to build tanky when you can build for straight damage and have an insane amount of healing for free. Building tanky doesn't help you much as they have so much damage they'll burst right through you anyway. There is also no way to counter the healing so you might as well join them as hybrid healer dd as thats the only viable way to play now and slap some speed on while you're at it. Although..everyone else does that too.

StarOfElyon

I can have 30k+ health and armor but still get nuked. Killing other solo players isn't impossible as long as they aren't DK or Templar. But in BG, cross healing is so insane there's nothing that can be done to kill a group that has proc heals going off on everyone or at least two people spamming rapid Regen. Healers are overtuned with proc sets. Actually, proc sets are always the issue and always will be the issue.

Bashev

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I can have 30k+ health and armor but still get nuked. Killing other solo players isn't impossible as long as they aren't DK or Templar. But in BG, cross healing is so insane there's nothing that can be done to kill a group that has proc heals going off on everyone or at least two people spamming rapid Regen. Healers are overtuned with proc sets. Actually, proc sets are always the issue and always will be the issue.

Remove mist form form DKs and Templars and they will be mortal again.

kwinter

Agree with what people say a group with strong heals that stay together can be hard to kill.

Valabrog

Just on topic, today i suddenly climbed to a high MMR - like yesterday I was getting 15/3 per match, now i get 2/10, legates and warlords in every match..Played ~10 matches in a row. And I always see there the same 4 types of players - magplar healers, magdks, nbs and magsorcs.

Cant catch goos nb even with maglight.
Cant kill healer.
Cant kill magdk, who all do 1,5 mil dmg (in compare to my 500-800).
Cant catch streaking magsorc.

Havent seen old good dizzyswing dks, wardens, stamplars, stamsorcs or stamcros in a long time..Everything is so much aoe..

As a magplar with melee weapon on front bar (every YT pvper suggests that as uber build), I cant score kills, because enemy teams either in tight packed either I cant catch them. I go with high HP build, 32k (because Deltia said Living dark is a best skill in game atm - LOL. There is no difference if I use it or not, i go down in seconds in 3 team brawl).

So like OP said, prob is best to spec for high dmg and hope to score more kills than enemy team..Or something.

On low MMR you can be god with those YT tanky builds, but i was on low MMR for 2 weeks at best, playing max 5 matches per day. Prob BG population is so small, that there are not enough players for a wider middle MMR league - once you done with total newbs, you go straight to arena gods.

_adhyffbjjjf12

this is why group DM is not true PVP. in DM its not about individual players, its 2 groups of 4 players calling out 1 target in the other team and nuking the *** out of it, while trying to group heal the target chosen in your team. Rinse and repeat for x minutes, with no other objectives to create divergent gameplay.

Bashev

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

this is why group DM is not true PVP. in DM its not about individual players, its 2 groups of 4 players calling out 1 target in the other team and nuking the *** out of it, while trying to group heal the target chosen in your team. Rinse and repeat for x minutes, with no other objectives to create divergent gameplay.

So what is true PvP for you? Dueling?

Players working together in a group is not true PvP? Coordinating your attacks is not PvP?

Aldoss

Valabrog wrote: »

Just on topic, today i suddenly climbed to a high MMR - like yesterday I was getting 15/3 per match, now i get 2/10, legates and warlords in every match..Played ~10 matches in a row. And I always see there the same 4 types of players - magplar healers, magdks, nbs and magsorcs.

Cant catch goos nb even with maglight.
Cant kill healer.
Cant kill magdk, who all do 1,5 mil dmg (in compare to my 500-800).
Cant catch streaking magsorc.

Havent seen old good dizzyswing dks, wardens, stamplars, stamsorcs or stamcros in a long time..Everything is so much aoe..

As a magplar with melee weapon on front bar (every YT pvper suggests that as uber build), I cant score kills, because enemy teams either in tight packed either I cant catch them. I go with high HP build, 32k (because Deltia said Living dark is a best skill in game atm - LOL. There is no difference if I use it or not, i go down in seconds in 3 team brawl).

So like OP said, prob is best to spec for high dmg and hope to score more kills than enemy team..Or something.

On low MMR you can be god with those YT tanky builds, but i was on low MMR for 2 weeks at best, playing max 5 matches per day. Prob BG population is so small, that there are not enough players for a wider middle MMR league - once you done with total newbs, you go straight to arena gods.

Metas exist in almost any game. Right now, the meta revolves around more aoe type dmg interlaced with strong burst and probably most of it stems from healing being as powerful as it is.

You don't see many stamdens or stamcros anymore because they don't have meta spammables right now. Dswing is terrible.

Honestly, melee is tough right now in higher mmr. It's really easy to lose position or line of sight your healer (if you're lucky enough to get one) and then poof, you're dead. Stamsorcs don't work as well now that proc stacking is gone. Crystal wep is a bad spammable.

Also, I'm not sure who is suggesting that a magplar use a melee wep... Lightning staff is bis for jabs. That won't necessarily help you though. The high mmr magplars I've seen recently have stopped using jabs.

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

this is why group DM is not true PVP. in DM its not about individual players, its 2 groups of 4 players calling out 1 target in the other team and nuking the *** out of it, while trying to group heal the target chosen in your team. Rinse and repeat for x minutes, with no other objectives to create divergent gameplay.

This is the most confusing statement I've read in a while. If an enemy team has a healer, especially one who knows what they're doing, you will not kill them solo. It's also way more efficient when teammates coordinate their attacks.

It's a team based game and good players understand who is killable, who needs to get focused, who needs to be cc'd, when to push, and when to stop pushing. None of this requires voice comms.

This strategy also exists in cyro, so perhaps that isn't "true pvp" either?

_adhyffbjjjf12

Aldoss wrote: »

Valabrog wrote: »

Just on topic, today i suddenly climbed to a high MMR - like yesterday I was getting 15/3 per match, now i get 2/10, legates and warlords in every match..Played ~10 matches in a row. And I always see there the same 4 types of players - magplar healers, magdks, nbs and magsorcs.

Cant catch goos nb even with maglight.
Cant kill healer.
Cant kill magdk, who all do 1,5 mil dmg (in compare to my 500-800).
Cant catch streaking magsorc.

Havent seen old good dizzyswing dks, wardens, stamplars, stamsorcs or stamcros in a long time..Everything is so much aoe..

As a magplar with melee weapon on front bar (every YT pvper suggests that as uber build), I cant score kills, because enemy teams either in tight packed either I cant catch them. I go with high HP build, 32k (because Deltia said Living dark is a best skill in game atm - LOL. There is no difference if I use it or not, i go down in seconds in 3 team brawl).

So like OP said, prob is best to spec for high dmg and hope to score more kills than enemy team..Or something.

On low MMR you can be god with those YT tanky builds, but i was on low MMR for 2 weeks at best, playing max 5 matches per day. Prob BG population is so small, that there are not enough players for a wider middle MMR league - once you done with total newbs, you go straight to arena gods.

Metas exist in almost any game. Right now, the meta revolves around more aoe type dmg interlaced with strong burst and probably most of it stems from healing being as powerful as it is.

You don't see many stamdens or stamcros anymore because they don't have meta spammables right now. Dswing is terrible.

Honestly, melee is tough right now in higher mmr. It's really easy to lose position or line of sight your healer (if you're lucky enough to get one) and then poof, you're dead. Stamsorcs don't work as well now that proc stacking is gone. Crystal wep is a bad spammable.

Also, I'm not sure who is suggesting that a magplar use a melee wep... Lightning staff is bis for jabs. That won't necessarily help you though. The high mmr magplars I've seen recently have stopped using jabs.

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

this is why group DM is not true PVP. in DM its not about individual players, its 2 groups of 4 players calling out 1 target in the other team and nuking the *** out of it, while trying to group heal the target chosen in your team. Rinse and repeat for x minutes, with no other objectives to create divergent gameplay.

This is the most confusing statement I've read in a while. If an enemy team has a healer, especially one who knows what they're doing, you will not kill them solo. It's also way more efficient when teammates coordinate their attacks.

It's a team based game and good players understand who is killable, who needs to get focused, who needs to be cc'd, when to push, and when to stop pushing. None of this requires voice comms.

This strategy also exists in cyro, so perhaps that isn't "true pvp" either?

that's not what i said, what i said is the group based DM (when efficiently played) boils down to both groups picking a single dps target and trying to nuke them down, while healing the dmg caused by the other team that's doing the exact same thing.

If you compare that with DM with no groups or objective based PVP, then the play is entirely different and dynamic.

_adhyffbjjjf12

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

Valabrog wrote: »

Just on topic, today i suddenly climbed to a high MMR - like yesterday I was getting 15/3 per match, now i get 2/10, legates and warlords in every match..Played ~10 matches in a row. And I always see there the same 4 types of players - magplar healers, magdks, nbs and magsorcs.

Cant catch goos nb even with maglight.
Cant kill healer.
Cant kill magdk, who all do 1,5 mil dmg (in compare to my 500-800).
Cant catch streaking magsorc.

Havent seen old good dizzyswing dks, wardens, stamplars, stamsorcs or stamcros in a long time..Everything is so much aoe..

As a magplar with melee weapon on front bar (every YT pvper suggests that as uber build), I cant score kills, because enemy teams either in tight packed either I cant catch them. I go with high HP build, 32k (because Deltia said Living dark is a best skill in game atm - LOL. There is no difference if I use it or not, i go down in seconds in 3 team brawl).

So like OP said, prob is best to spec for high dmg and hope to score more kills than enemy team..Or something.

On low MMR you can be god with those YT tanky builds, but i was on low MMR for 2 weeks at best, playing max 5 matches per day. Prob BG population is so small, that there are not enough players for a wider middle MMR league - once you done with total newbs, you go straight to arena gods.

Metas exist in almost any game. Right now, the meta revolves around more aoe type dmg interlaced with strong burst and probably most of it stems from healing being as powerful as it is.

You don't see many stamdens or stamcros anymore because they don't have meta spammables right now. Dswing is terrible.

Honestly, melee is tough right now in higher mmr. It's really easy to lose position or line of sight your healer (if you're lucky enough to get one) and then poof, you're dead. Stamsorcs don't work as well now that proc stacking is gone. Crystal wep is a bad spammable.

Also, I'm not sure who is suggesting that a magplar use a melee wep... Lightning staff is bis for jabs. That won't necessarily help you though. The high mmr magplars I've seen recently have stopped using jabs.

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

this is why group DM is not true PVP. in DM its not about individual players, its 2 groups of 4 players calling out 1 target in the other team and nuking the *** out of it, while trying to group heal the target chosen in your team. Rinse and repeat for x minutes, with no other objectives to create divergent gameplay.

This is the most confusing statement I've read in a while. If an enemy team has a healer, especially one who knows what they're doing, you will not kill them solo. It's also way more efficient when teammates coordinate their attacks.

It's a team based game and good players understand who is killable, who needs to get focused, who needs to be cc'd, when to push, and when to stop pushing. None of this requires voice comms.

This strategy also exists in cyro, so perhaps that isn't "true pvp" either?

that's not what i said, what i said is the group based DM (when efficiently played) boils down to both groups picking a single dps target and trying to nuke them down, while healing the dmg caused by the other team that's doing the exact same thing.

If you compare that with DM with no groups or objective based PVP, then the play is entirely different and dynamic.

and Cyro is different again, that's blob versus blob, solo roaming and everything in-between, not 4 v 4 trapped in an instance with 1 single goal, get most kills.

Valabrog

Aldoss wrote: »

Valabrog wrote: »

Just on topic, today i suddenly climbed to a high MMR - like yesterday I was getting 15/3 per match, now i get 2/10, legates and warlords in every match..Played ~10 matches in a row. And I always see there the same 4 types of players - magplar healers, magdks, nbs and magsorcs.

Cant catch goos nb even with maglight.
Cant kill healer.
Cant kill magdk, who all do 1,5 mil dmg (in compare to my 500-800).
Cant catch streaking magsorc.

Havent seen old good dizzyswing dks, wardens, stamplars, stamsorcs or stamcros in a long time..Everything is so much aoe..

As a magplar with melee weapon on front bar (every YT pvper suggests that as uber build), I cant score kills, because enemy teams either in tight packed either I cant catch them. I go with high HP build, 32k (because Deltia said Living dark is a best skill in game atm - LOL. There is no difference if I use it or not, i go down in seconds in 3 team brawl).

So like OP said, prob is best to spec for high dmg and hope to score more kills than enemy team..Or something.

On low MMR you can be god with those YT tanky builds, but i was on low MMR for 2 weeks at best, playing max 5 matches per day. Prob BG population is so small, that there are not enough players for a wider middle MMR league - once you done with total newbs, you go straight to arena gods.

Metas exist in almost any game. Right now, the meta revolves around more aoe type dmg interlaced with strong burst and probably most of it stems from healing being as powerful as it is.

You don't see many stamdens or stamcros anymore because they don't have meta spammables right now. Dswing is terrible.

Honestly, melee is tough right now in higher mmr. It's really easy to lose position or line of sight your healer (if you're lucky enough to get one) and then poof, you're dead. Stamsorcs don't work as well now that proc stacking is gone. Crystal wep is a bad spammable.

Also, I'm not sure who is suggesting that a magplar use a melee wep... Lightning staff is bis for jabs. That won't necessarily help you though. The high mmr magplars I've seen recently have stopped using jabs.

Well you might be correct about jabs - I started to think the same thing seeing two magplars who always did 1,5 or more dmg and had very few deaths, while their teamates were doing really bad. And i havent noticed those magplars anywhere near brawls. So yea, prob they just went full range, which I considered odd at first...

About bad spammables and metas - how is it fun to play meta class (one of the few) instead of what you like? And also I cant understand, how much fun can be running in ball group - If you are good, look for 1 vs 2 fights in BG, test your skills etc (like I did in lowbies or low MMR). BG leaderboard isnt that rewarding, why try so hard instead of widening the range of various encounters...Man, i wait for objectives so much, a lot more possibilities to have various circumstances instead of standing in mid and pew pew for 10 mins. Personally i find crazy king much more PVP than bashing your head into healer packs during DM - you have 5 vs 5 vs 5 at first, than you spread a bit, in the end you easily can fight a duel near the flag or 2 vs 2..

Solariken

I feel like combat balance and TTK is really excellent this patch.

The only aspect that is out of whack is 3rd party healing. Healers in general are at least 5x more powerful than DD. They need to find a way to reign in ally healing and combat will be dang near perfect IMO

Xedillian22

Solariken wrote: »

I feel like combat balance and TTK is really excellent this patch.

The only aspect that is out of whack is 3rd party healing. Healers in general are at least 5x more powerful than DD. They need to find a way to reign in ally healing and combat will be dang near perfect IMO

naa bro isnt balanced xDD no cp pvp absolut broken , heavy attack mag dks/ nb with calurion /mag dks corosive etc.... eso have not a competitive pvp system feels more like a shooter not a mmo Unfortunately, i love this game but atm it is realy sad