ZOS Please help Magden

GusTheWizard

Hello all, I’ve been playing Magden in pvp since it’s release and I gotta say it’s healing has gotten so bad that I’ve started playing magDK. Many people tell me that Budding Seeds is a good burst heal because it has a 12k tool tip and that Magden is fine but I’ll explain why it’s not

For one Budding Seeds has a terrible targeting system and it’s a double cast skill, you have to use two global cooldowns to spam this while in danger so it’s only 6k healing per second rather then 12k, compared to other magic burst heals it sucks Honor of the Dead has an 11k tool tip and only takes one global cooldown. And don’t get me started on Arctic Blast, Living Trellis and Enchanted Growth, here’s some suggestions to improve these skills.

Arctic Blast was a great heal until you gutted it because Stamdens were running around with 40k and 6k weapon damage and never dying.
My suggestion is to make the Arctic Blast morph a duel scaling skill like Living Dark, it could scale with max health and spell damage or max health and max magicka, So the health scaling would be the same as it is now but if you were a Magden you’d get more out of it.

Living Trellis I think you should buff the burst heal from this morph a bit, right now on live my tool tip is around 5.5k I think it should be around 7 to 8k and the longer the skill runs the more it heals for like Rally.

Now Enchanted Growth I don’t understand why this skill is so bad I have 35k magicka and 5k spell damage and it still only has a 7k tool tip and it costs as much as Honor of the Dead, I see no reason why this skill shouldn’t heal for the same as Healthy Offering, Honor of the Dead and Resistant Flesh. If the issue is it heals multiple people I’d prefer it heal only one person and be an actual burst heal.

I’m not saying make all of these changes but if you could do at least one of them it would help us Magden mains greatly.

ESO_Nightingale

Dekrypted wrote: »

100% agree that magden needs some love. Zos has shown it can make some unique changes to how skills scale and your example of living dark is a great one.

Personally I've ran builds that have 40k hp on magden and STILL need atleast major mending for the heal to feel useable. The class needs help

Blast doesn't need mag scaling healing or even healing in general for that matter. Polar is great for hp healing but we don't need 2 tank morphs for the tank heal when there's 4 class damage skills outside of ultimates. Instead it should drop the healing to focus on stunning and damage like it should have in the first place. One of the FIVE green balance heals should fufill the job of burst healing self.

GusTheWizard

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Blast doesn't need mag scaling healing or even healing in general for that matter. Polar is great for hp healing but we don't need 2 tank morphs for the tank heal when there's 4 class damage skills outside of ultimates. Instead it should drop the healing to focus on stunning and damage like it should have in the first place. One of the FIVE green balance heals should fufill the job of burst healing self.

My issue with that is Magden doesn’t have much bar space and having your burst heal and stun be the same skill frees up a slot, I most prefer Arctic Blast get duel scaling.

IronWooshu

TheRealGodzilla was PVPing as a Magden in BG's and was doing 600k dmg with over 300k healing.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

ESO_Nightingale

IronWooshu wrote: »

TheRealGodzilla was PVPing as a Magden in BG's and was doing 600k dmg with over 300k healing.

[snip]

Those stats don't matter because they occur over the course of a match. That completely ignores moment to moment gameplay. try healing yourself on a magden vs any other class you'll quickly find that it's a massive struggle. Magden just can't achieve a well balanced build at the moment.

[edited to remove quote]

ESO_Nightingale

GusTheWizard wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Blast doesn't need mag scaling healing or even healing in general for that matter. Polar is great for hp healing but we don't need 2 tank morphs for the tank heal when there's 4 class damage skills outside of ultimates. Instead it should drop the healing to focus on stunning and damage like it should have in the first place. One of the FIVE green balance heals should fufill the job of burst healing self.

My issue with that is Magden doesn’t have much bar space and having your burst heal and stun be the same skill frees up a slot, I most prefer Arctic Blast get duel scaling.

What skill bars do you use? Because trellis is an example of something that can be compressed.

Greek_Hellspawn

IronWooshu wrote: »

TheRealGodzilla was PVPing as a Magden in BG's and was doing 600k dmg with over 300k healing.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Which proves nothing.
Good players do good on every class, the thing is that if he was playing another class the dmg and healing would have been way higher.

Magden needs a buff, everything magden does other classes do better.

ESO_Nightingale

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

TheRealGodzilla was PVPing as a Magden in BG's and was doing 600k dmg with over 300k healing.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Which proves nothing.
Good players do good on every class, the thing is that if he was playing another class the dmg and healing would have been way higher.

Magden needs a buff, everything magden does other classes do better.

Even using the same content creator that that guy listed, godzilla has ranked magden as the worst class on the list. Because it just is. Blast is an awful offensive stun that forces us into melee range, our healing is genuinely awful on self and our sustain suffers even more than it already has because of it.

Kusto

Magden is trash in pve also. Sustain is way worse than any other class. I cant even do full parse on trial dummy with recovery food without having to do several heavy attacks.

ESO_Nightingale

Kusto wrote: »

Magden is trash in pve also. Sustain is way worse than any other class. I cant even do full parse on trial dummy with recovery food without having to do several heavy attacks.

magdens literally use sub assault rn. not only more dmg but much better sustain. it's rough.

MindOfTheSwarm

I have a Magden healer and it does well in that role both in PvP and PvE. However, I assume you mean that you want a single spell that can save you in a clutch. Polar Wind and Arctic Blast are as close as it comes for that. They deal damage and heal at the same time and are good for a bruiser spec. For a true burst heal like Honor the Dead, then yes Magden lacks. But the play style of Magplar and Magden is different. You should use Arctic Blast and Wings for movement and play hit and run games. Warden’s have potential for incredible burst combos. If you want to stick around and face tank then you need to beef up defences a bit. The Winter class skills are good for this. Major Protection, Minor Protection, Major Maim, Minor Maim, Projectile Deflection. It all adds up. And you can still do decent damage. Chances are you are building for straight damage and as such you will become a bit of a glass cannon as a result, which is also fine.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

I have a Magden healer and it does well in that role both in PvP and PvE. However, I assume you mean that you want a single spell that can save you in a clutch. Polar Wind and Arctic Blast are as close as it comes for that. They deal damage and heal at the same time and are good for a bruiser spec. For a true burst heal like Honor the Dead, then yes Magden lacks. But the play style of Magplar and Magden is different. You should use Arctic Blast and Wings for movement and play hit and run games. Warden’s have potential for incredible burst combos. If you want to stick around and face tank then you need to beef up defences a bit. The Winter class skills are good for this. Major Protection, Minor Protection, Major Maim, Minor Maim, Projectile Deflection. It all adds up. And you can still do decent damage. Chances are you are building for straight damage and as such you will become a bit of a glass cannon as a result, which is also fine.

you can heal fine as a group healer, the problem is healing yourself as a DPS in PvP. Blast is no longer good at that anymore.

MindOfTheSwarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

I have a Magden healer and it does well in that role both in PvP and PvE. However, I assume you mean that you want a single spell that can save you in a clutch. Polar Wind and Arctic Blast are as close as it comes for that. They deal damage and heal at the same time and are good for a bruiser spec. For a true burst heal like Honor the Dead, then yes Magden lacks. But the play style of Magplar and Magden is different. You should use Arctic Blast and Wings for movement and play hit and run games. Warden’s have potential for incredible burst combos. If you want to stick around and face tank then you need to beef up defences a bit. The Winter class skills are good for this. Major Protection, Minor Protection, Major Maim, Minor Maim, Projectile Deflection. It all adds up. And you can still do decent damage. Chances are you are building for straight damage and as such you will become a bit of a glass cannon as a result, which is also fine.

you can heal fine as a group healer, the problem is healing yourself as a DPS in PvP. Blast is no longer good at that anymore.

Was more trying to point out that Magden’s have a lot of defensive utility that can stack with their heals. Without, losing too much in terms of offence. With regards to the question of having a true burst heal… I remain neutral on the matter as I don’t have an issue in PvP.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

I have a Magden healer and it does well in that role both in PvP and PvE. However, I assume you mean that you want a single spell that can save you in a clutch. Polar Wind and Arctic Blast are as close as it comes for that. They deal damage and heal at the same time and are good for a bruiser spec. For a true burst heal like Honor the Dead, then yes Magden lacks. But the play style of Magplar and Magden is different. You should use Arctic Blast and Wings for movement and play hit and run games. Warden’s have potential for incredible burst combos. If you want to stick around and face tank then you need to beef up defences a bit. The Winter class skills are good for this. Major Protection, Minor Protection, Major Maim, Minor Maim, Projectile Deflection. It all adds up. And you can still do decent damage. Chances are you are building for straight damage and as such you will become a bit of a glass cannon as a result, which is also fine.

you can heal fine as a group healer, the problem is healing yourself as a DPS in PvP. Blast is no longer good at that anymore.

Was more trying to point out that Magden’s have a lot of defensive utility that can stack with their heals. Without, losing too much in terms of offence. With regards to the question of having a true burst heal… I remain neutral on the matter as I don’t have an issue in PvP.

We know what magden has, it's not like we've not explored the class to find what works best, nay, because it's so bad at the moment we've tried literally every option availiable to us and it's not enough. we need a self burst heal that isn't awful.

MindOfTheSwarm

Maybe Lotus Blossom could be ditched. Instead, you get a Spriggan pet that heals you. Similar to Necro Ghost.

Greek_Hellspawn

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Maybe Lotus Blossom could be ditched. Instead, you get a Spriggan pet that heals you. Similar to Necro Ghost.

I like this idea, it isn't a burst heal that magden lacks but it would surely help the class and make a useless skill actually useful.

etchedpixels

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Maybe Lotus Blossom could be ditched. Instead, you get a Spriggan pet that heals you. Similar to Necro Ghost.

I like this idea, it isn't a burst heal that magden lacks but it would surely help the class and make a useless skill actually useful.

Lotus is a very important skill for a lot of builds - it's the source of crit for a DPS, it's the skill DPS wardens run to give minor toughness to a group if they don't have a warden healer and in general it's a DPS 'take pressure off the healers' skill or hybrid healer/dps skill that lets you keep a dungeon group happy whilst focussing on damage.

Maybe warden shouldn't have that burst heal anyway, maybe class identity ought to mean something ?

GusTheWizard

etchedpixels wrote: »

Maybe warden shouldn't have that burst heal anyway, maybe class identity ought to mean something ?

I’m sorry but agree to disagree. Every class needs a burst heal for pvp especially magicka classes, in fact Magden used to have one in Arctic Blast but it was nerfed do to Stamden. Also not having a burst heal is not a class identity, if that’s your case I could say Zos took warden’s class identity when they nerfed Arctic Blast.

GusTheWizard

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

What skill bars do you use? Because trellis is an example of something that can be compressed.

If they took my suggestion for Living Trellis then yes I would say Change Arctic Blast to focus more on being a stun and damaging morph.

I usually always have Blue Betty, Arctic Blast, Living Trellis, Race Against Time and Ice Fortress.
And as of now Blue Betty, Arctic Blast, another off heal and Ice Fortress are all a must. Race Against Time is barely a flex spot because you need movement in pvp.

MindOfTheSwarm

etchedpixels wrote: »

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Maybe Lotus Blossom could be ditched. Instead, you get a Spriggan pet that heals you. Similar to Necro Ghost.

I like this idea, it isn't a burst heal that magden lacks but it would surely help the class and make a useless skill actually useful.

Lotus is a very important skill for a lot of builds - it's the source of crit for a DPS, it's the skill DPS wardens run to give minor toughness to a group if they don't have a warden healer and in general it's a DPS 'take pressure off the healers' skill or hybrid healer/dps skill that lets you keep a dungeon group happy whilst focussing on damage.

Maybe warden shouldn't have that burst heal anyway, maybe class identity ought to mean something ?

Not convinced about Lotus Blossom being important for DPS. Why spend Magicka on a buff I can get from Inner Light for free or from a Spell Pot.

etchedpixels

Because inner light doesn't heal other people and given them minor toughness ?

Depends on the group and content.

MEBengalsFan2001

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

I have a Magden healer and it does well in that role both in PvP and PvE. However, I assume you mean that you want a single spell that can save you in a clutch. Polar Wind and Arctic Blast are as close as it comes for that. They deal damage and heal at the same time and are good for a bruiser spec. For a true burst heal like Honor the Dead, then yes Magden lacks. But the play style of Magplar and Magden is different. You should use Arctic Blast and Wings for movement and play hit and run games. Warden’s have potential for incredible burst combos. If you want to stick around and face tank then you need to beef up defences a bit. The Winter class skills are good for this. Major Protection, Minor Protection, Major Maim, Minor Maim, Projectile Deflection. It all adds up. And you can still do decent damage. Chances are you are building for straight damage and as such you will become a bit of a glass cannon as a result, which is also fine.

I agree with your sentiment on magden. I keep seeing people wanting bigger burst heals for magden.

What I don't get is that if you are running a magden in PVP and are not a healer you still can use have rapid regen as a possible answer for quick healing.

I main a templar and don't rely on Breath of Life/Honor the Dead as my big burst heal because it can go to others around me. And it usually does. Don't say ruin as that requires the templar to stand it it, etc... Don't state Living Dark, that does heal but it is actually lower than what I get on my Warden when I use artic blast.

If you need more heals go with the Gloom set, it can help heal you whenever you take damage.

MindOfTheSwarm

Grace of Gloom is a good set for PvP yes. Also, there are monster sets that can burst

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Grace of Gloom is a good set for PvP yes. Also, there are monster sets that can burst

None of which fix the problem.

GusTheWizard

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Grace of Gloom is a good set for PvP yes. Also, there are monster sets that can burst

Tried to make that set work, I still didn’t have enough healing.

@MindOfTheSwarm can I ask you how long you’ve been playing Magden dps?

ESO_Nightingale

etchedpixels wrote: »

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Maybe Lotus Blossom could be ditched. Instead, you get a Spriggan pet that heals you. Similar to Necro Ghost.

I like this idea, it isn't a burst heal that magden lacks but it would surely help the class and make a useless skill actually useful.

Lotus is a very important skill for a lot of builds - it's the source of crit for a DPS, it's the skill DPS wardens run to give minor toughness to a group if they don't have a warden healer and in general it's a DPS 'take pressure off the healers' skill or hybrid healer/dps skill that lets you keep a dungeon group happy whilst focussing on damage.

Maybe warden shouldn't have that burst heal anyway, maybe class identity ought to mean something ?

Magden's healing was supposed to be less than other classes outside of major mending when you look at the original design, but after the major mending, minor protection and major protection nerfs it's been far too low. we've crutched entirely on blast until blackwood when they nerfed it hard. they need to give us a solid magicka based burst heal that is able to reach as much as something like resistant flesh, but only with major mending procced.

MindOfTheSwarm

GusTheWizard wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Grace of Gloom is a good set for PvP yes. Also, there are monster sets that can burst

Tried to make that set work, I still didn’t have enough healing.

@MindOfTheSwarm can I ask you how long you’ve been playing Magden dps?

I main Magden. Since it got released, before Warden was released I played Stamblade. Been playing for years since Bow Arrow Hail had a Flame morph.

Greek_Hellspawn

etchedpixels wrote: »

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Maybe Lotus Blossom could be ditched. Instead, you get a Spriggan pet that heals you. Similar to Necro Ghost.

I like this idea, it isn't a burst heal that magden lacks but it would surely help the class and make a useless skill actually useful.

Lotus is a very important skill for a lot of builds - it's the source of crit for a DPS, it's the skill DPS wardens run to give minor toughness to a group if they don't have a warden healer and in general it's a DPS 'take pressure off the healers' skill or hybrid healer/dps skill that lets you keep a dungeon group happy whilst focussing on damage.

Maybe warden shouldn't have that burst heal anyway, maybe class identity ought to mean something ?

>Class identity
>Class having access to burst heal

Pick one, these 2 are totally different things.

A class not having access to a burst heal is not considered "class identity", it just means that the class lacks something that EVERY other class has access to.

Dk dragon blood
Templar breath of life
Sorc matriarch
Necro flesh

So why warden shouldn't have a burst heal?

The only solution i could think of instead of giving magden a burst heal, is giving them a strong class hot like regeneration/vigor, or like necro ghost (the morph with stronger heal, not the mitigation one).

ESO_Nightingale

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

etchedpixels wrote: »

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Maybe Lotus Blossom could be ditched. Instead, you get a Spriggan pet that heals you. Similar to Necro Ghost.

I like this idea, it isn't a burst heal that magden lacks but it would surely help the class and make a useless skill actually useful.

Lotus is a very important skill for a lot of builds - it's the source of crit for a DPS, it's the skill DPS wardens run to give minor toughness to a group if they don't have a warden healer and in general it's a DPS 'take pressure off the healers' skill or hybrid healer/dps skill that lets you keep a dungeon group happy whilst focussing on damage.

Maybe warden shouldn't have that burst heal anyway, maybe class identity ought to mean something ?

So why warden shouldn't have a burst heal?

because we're a DLC class. we're not allowed to have anything nice because we're suddenly pay to win if we do. even though magden has been awful for ages.

GusTheWizard

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

I main Magden. Since it got released.

Well you said you played a warden healer that’s why I asked.

BlossomDead

I concur. I'm relying on Vines & Steadfast ward, but to be fair I sometimes regret being close to other players because my heals go to them instead.