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Necromancer Pet Inconsistencies with Sets and Scoreboard
CameraBeardThePirate
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To start off, I’m not entirely sure if this post belongs in this section of the forums or not, so please @ZOS_GinaBruno or anyone else let me know if it doesn’t or if I should repost elsewhere.
I’m CameraBeardThePirate, and if you haven’t seen me in BGs, I’m the blastbones guy. I play almost exclusively magcro in pvp (specifically mostly BGs and IC), and for the past year, I’ve been using the Animate Blastbones ultimate. A surprisingly large amount of people don’t even realize this ultimate exists, so for those that don’t know, this ultimate summons up to 3 blastbones for each corpse it consumes, in addition to reviving any downed friendly player in the area. It’s the most expensive ult in the game (a whopping 345 with vamp stage 3), and is terribly unreliable due to the fact that you cannot tell the blastbones to target anyone specifically; they pick a (seemingly) random target that’s probably loosely based on the closest enemy to them. If they all hit together however, it’s a devastating amount of damage and can wipe entire teams.
The reason I bring this ult up is that since deciding to run this ultimate almost exclusively, most of my damage each match comes from blastbones, and because of this I’ve discovered a number of painful bugs and inconsistencies with the way necromancer pets work as a whole.
The first and most glaring issue with necro pets, and the one most likely a bug, is the fact that necro pets are completely invisible on the scoreboard. Healing from the ghost, and damage from the arcanist, archer, and blastbones, do NOT show up on the scoreboard. I often go around 10-1 with a meager 300k damage and 50k healing, however recount shows that when accounting for the ghost and blastbones I have over 1 million damage and around 400k healing. This matters for a couple reasons:
1) It creates toxicity among teammates. More than once, I’ve been chastised by (admittedly toxic) teammates for “not contributing” during a deathmatch, when despite having 8-12 kills, I “only” have 200k-300k damage. This doesn’t bother me, but newer players may feel bad if they see a low damage score when playing necromancer and don’t realize that they’re actually dealing much more damage.
2) It confuses enemy players and can lead to “hack-usations”. I’ve received a number of whispers from players that (understandably) think I’m doing something fishy when I’ve just hit them and their entire team for a 30k ult dump but only have 15k damage on the scoreboard at the beginning of the match. Beyond confusion, in a more competitive setting players looking for high value targets on an enemy team are going to overlook a player with the lowest damage in the match even though they may be doing close to the most damage in the match with blastbones alone.
Related to this issue is an inconsistency I found with necro pets. This particular issue could just be a questionable design choice, so I’m not claiming that it’s a bug, but I personally don’t see the logic behind it. When theory crafting around the blastbones ultimate, I came to realize that NONE of the necro pets proc ANY SET in the game, despite being class abilities, and despite other similar “pets” and burst abilities such as the werewolf direwolves and the warden shalks being able to proc effects.
This is a pretty big hit to the necro as a whole because it means that you now have to devote a skill on your bar to proc effects that should otherwise proc with your most reliable class abilities. When using the blastbones ult, you can't use sets that would otherwise be perfect such as Night Mother's Gaze to proc fracture, or Vicious Death to add to the burst damage, because blastbones will not proc anything. Even sets such as Overwhelming Surge, a set that is supposed to proc "when you deal damage with a class ability" will not proc from either blastbones or your skeletal mage. This doesn't even factor in any of the sets that would/should proc when you heal with your ghost. Once again, if Shalks, a very comparable skill to blastbones, can proc sets, why not blastbones?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_RichLambert , is there any official opinion or word on if the above inconsistencies with necro pets are intended? Are these known issues that are intended to be fixed? I'm not one to make demands or anything, and if the above issues are intended, so be it. I would just like official word one way or the other so I can raise the corpses of my enemies with a peace of mind.
TL;DR: Necro pet damage and healing are invisible on the BG scoreboard and also do not proc any sets in the game.
Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on April 26, 2024 5:06PM I’m CameraBeardThePirate, and if you haven’t seen me in BGs, I’m the blastbones guy. I play almost exclusively magcro in pvp (specifically mostly BGs and IC), and for the past year, I’ve been using the Animate Blastbones ultimate. A surprisingly large amount of people don’t even realize this ultimate exists, so for those that don’t know, this ultimate summons up to 3 blastbones for each corpse it consumes, in addition to reviving any downed friendly player in the area. It’s the most expensive ult in the game (a whopping 345 with vamp stage 3), and is terribly unreliable due to the fact that you cannot tell the blastbones to target anyone specifically; they pick a (seemingly) random target that’s probably loosely based on the closest enemy to them. If they all hit together however, it’s a devastating amount of damage and can wipe entire teams.
The reason I bring this ult up is that since deciding to run this ultimate almost exclusively, most of my damage each match comes from blastbones, and because of this I’ve discovered a number of painful bugs and inconsistencies with the way necromancer pets work as a whole.
The first and most glaring issue with necro pets, and the one most likely a bug, is the fact that necro pets are completely invisible on the scoreboard. Healing from the ghost, and damage from the arcanist, archer, and blastbones, do NOT show up on the scoreboard. I often go around 10-1 with a meager 300k damage and 50k healing, however recount shows that when accounting for the ghost and blastbones I have over 1 million damage and around 400k healing. This matters for a couple reasons:
1) It creates toxicity among teammates. More than once, I’ve been chastised by (admittedly toxic) teammates for “not contributing” during a deathmatch, when despite having 8-12 kills, I “only” have 200k-300k damage. This doesn’t bother me, but newer players may feel bad if they see a low damage score when playing necromancer and don’t realize that they’re actually dealing much more damage.
2) It confuses enemy players and can lead to “hack-usations”. I’ve received a number of whispers from players that (understandably) think I’m doing something fishy when I’ve just hit them and their entire team for a 30k ult dump but only have 15k damage on the scoreboard at the beginning of the match. Beyond confusion, in a more competitive setting players looking for high value targets on an enemy team are going to overlook a player with the lowest damage in the match even though they may be doing close to the most damage in the match with blastbones alone.
Related to this issue is an inconsistency I found with necro pets. This particular issue could just be a questionable design choice, so I’m not claiming that it’s a bug, but I personally don’t see the logic behind it. When theory crafting around the blastbones ultimate, I came to realize that NONE of the necro pets proc ANY SET in the game, despite being class abilities, and despite other similar “pets” and burst abilities such as the werewolf direwolves and the warden shalks being able to proc effects.
This is a pretty big hit to the necro as a whole because it means that you now have to devote a skill on your bar to proc effects that should otherwise proc with your most reliable class abilities. When using the blastbones ult, you can't use sets that would otherwise be perfect such as Night Mother's Gaze to proc fracture, or Vicious Death to add to the burst damage, because blastbones will not proc anything. Even sets such as Overwhelming Surge, a set that is supposed to proc "when you deal damage with a class ability" will not proc from either blastbones or your skeletal mage. This doesn't even factor in any of the sets that would/should proc when you heal with your ghost. Once again, if Shalks, a very comparable skill to blastbones, can proc sets, why not blastbones?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_RichLambert , is there any official opinion or word on if the above inconsistencies with necro pets are intended? Are these known issues that are intended to be fixed? I'm not one to make demands or anything, and if the above issues are intended, so be it. I would just like official word one way or the other so I can raise the corpses of my enemies with a peace of mind.
TL;DR: Necro pet damage and healing are invisible on the BG scoreboard and also do not proc any sets in the game.
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gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They should show up on the scoreboard!PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden2 -
RaptorRodeoGod✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Related to this issue is an inconsistency I found with necro pets. This particular issue could just be a questionable design choice, so I’m not claiming that it’s a bug, but I personally don’t see the logic behind it. When theory crafting around the blastbones ultimate, I came to realize that NONE of the necro pets proc ANY SET in the game, despite being class abilities, and despite other similar “pets” and burst abilities such as the werewolf direwolves and the warden shalks being able to proc effects.
Necro pets are classified the same way as Sorc pets and Warden Bear. None of these pets have ever been able to proc sets.Add a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
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Veteran players have been alienated and disengaged from Overland since One Tamriel, due to the lack of difficulty, and pushed into dungeons and trials; the minority of content in the Elder Scrolls Online. We can't take the repetition anymore, fix Overland engagement for Vet players. I don't even care if it's not combat related anymore, just make Overland engaging again.
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Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.3 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Related to this issue is an inconsistency I found with necro pets. This particular issue could just be a questionable design choice, so I’m not claiming that it’s a bug, but I personally don’t see the logic behind it. When theory crafting around the blastbones ultimate, I came to realize that NONE of the necro pets proc ANY SET in the game, despite being class abilities, and despite other similar “pets” and burst abilities such as the werewolf direwolves and the warden shalks being able to proc effects.
Necro pets are classified the same way as Sorc pets and Warden Bear. None of these pets have ever been able to proc sets.
While that's fair to point out, the difference is that those pets are actual permanent pets, while the necro pets are simply abilities with durations, and also cannot be commanded like true pets. They function more like shalks for blastbones, and flames of oblivion for the ghost/arcanist.
I'm not saying it's wrong for them to behave the way they do in regards to proccing sets, but I would argue that they should behave as the latter group of skills I mentioned and not "true" pets, as they aren't permanent, can't be targeted (in the case of the arcanist and ghost), and can't be commanded using the binding for commanding pets.
If they are to stay the way they are, then I would say they should then be changed so that the arcanist and blastbones summoned from the ult can be commanded in return.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on January 4, 2022 1:23PM0 -
UntilValhalla13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Necro "pets" are unique in the fact that they operate somewhat independently with pathing and have their own targeting system. Shalks aren't pets, because they just blast whatever is directly in front of you. Necro pets don't proc anything because they are what is causing the damage/healing, and not you. They do the damage and just disappear, taking the dps numbers with them. It's always been that way as long as necros have existed in eso. They've always been clunky to play.0 -
I would like to add that necromancer summons don't contribute kills to the caster either, when it comes to gear. It's unnecessarily difficult to build stacks with Thrassian Stranglers as pet kills won't count. Necromancer summons also don't inherent buffs from various gear equipped by the caster. Most resent Bahsai's Mania comes to mind - Blastbones are NOT buffed by Bahsai's Mania for some reason...1
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IncultaWolf✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is the reason a few of my friends don't like playing their necromancer in battlegrounds, would be nice if they counted on the scoreboard.0 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭necromancer pets can indeed proc sets, but its hit/miss which ones
blastbones for example WILL NOT proc plaguebreak (despite being a direct dmg attack), but it WILL proc dark convergence (even though it doesnt leave any ground based aoe unless thats how the game treats its explosion)0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »necromancer pets can indeed proc sets, but its hit/miss which ones
blastbones for example WILL NOT proc plaguebreak (despite being a direct dmg attack), but it WILL proc dark convergence (even though it doesnt leave any ground based aoe unless thats how the game treats its explosion)
This is not true... blastbones absolutely does not proc DC, nor does it proc any other set.
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Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »necromancer pets can indeed proc sets, but its hit/miss which ones
blastbones for example WILL NOT proc plaguebreak (despite being a direct dmg attack), but it WILL proc dark convergence (even though it doesnt leave any ground based aoe unless thats how the game treats its explosion)
This is not true... blastbones absolutely does not proc DC, nor does it proc any other set.
ill pay attention more next time im running the toon, DC does go off on a lot of weird stuff (plaguebreak explosion (why does DC proc on that? lol) for one which i am also using), so it is possible blastbones is killing a plaguebreak affected enemy coincidentally0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »necromancer pets can indeed proc sets, but its hit/miss which ones
blastbones for example WILL NOT proc plaguebreak (despite being a direct dmg attack), but it WILL proc dark convergence (even though it doesnt leave any ground based aoe unless thats how the game treats its explosion)
This is not true... blastbones absolutely does not proc DC, nor does it proc any other set.
ill pay attention more next time im running the toon, DC does go off on a lot of weird stuff (plaguebreak explosion (why does DC proc on that? lol) for one which i am also using), so it is possible blastbones is killing a plaguebreak affected enemy coincidentally
That's definitely what's happening. I can tell you with certainty blastbones doesn't proc anything, including DC. I've tested extensively0 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »necromancer pets can indeed proc sets, but its hit/miss which ones
blastbones for example WILL NOT proc plaguebreak (despite being a direct dmg attack), but it WILL proc dark convergence (even though it doesnt leave any ground based aoe unless thats how the game treats its explosion)
This is not true... blastbones absolutely does not proc DC, nor does it proc any other set.
ill pay attention more next time im running the toon, DC does go off on a lot of weird stuff (plaguebreak explosion (why does DC proc on that? lol) for one which i am also using), so it is possible blastbones is killing a plaguebreak affected enemy coincidentally
That's definitely what's happening. I can tell you with certainty blastbones doesn't proc anything, including DC. I've tested extensively
after looking a it more carefully i think that is what i was seeing too, made sure i waited for the blastbones to hit a mob before attacking them with anything else0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IncultaWolf wrote: »This is the reason a few of my friends don't like playing their necromancer in battlegrounds, would be nice if they counted on the scoreboard.
BB kills seem to count for kills in Cyrodil bounty/Kill40 quests. Why not BGs?
It is frustrating my strongest damage and healing skills penalize me.0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IncultaWolf wrote: »This is the reason a few of my friends don't like playing their necromancer in battlegrounds, would be nice if they counted on the scoreboard.
BB kills seem to count for kills in Cyrodil bounty/Kill40 quests. Why not BGs?
It is frustrating my strongest damage and healing skills penalize me.
BB will still count for kills on the scoreboard, just not damage and the ghost won't count any healing. BB also doesn't proc any "on kill" effects in any setting.
It really needs to be changed. There's no reason a bread and butter skill like Blastbones shouldn't count for anything and behave the way it does, and there's definitely no reason that the ghost and arcanist, skills that are functionally identical to regular HoTs/DoTs should still count as pets.
This is especially infuriating since they can't be commanded as pets. If they're fire and forget, they should be treated as such under all circumstances, and if they're pets, they should be commandable.1 -
BronzeCaiman✭✭✭When our summons die in PvE, it makes companions leave combat and stand behind us. This also happens to our group members companions.
There is much more wrong with Necromancer than just our pets, like how we get some lame defile on Stamina morph while Magicka gets literal % damage for when blastbones doesn't function as intended.2
