Is selling in-game gold for real-world money allowed now?

SeaGtGruff

Today I've seen an account spamming zone chat with a web address-- with spaces between each character and using commas instead of periods, apparently to bypass chat filters or something-- advertising the sale of in-game gold for real-world money, as well as the sale of Crown Crates for real-world money. I think this was on both the PC EU and PC NA servers, but it might have been just the PC NA server. Initially I ignored it, because I mistakenly thought it was advertising a site for buying Crowns (or Crown Store items) with in-game gold. But I kept seeing it appear over and over in different zones as I swapped characters or traveled to different zones for quests. So the last time I saw it come up, I stopped to read it more carefully and realized it was talking about buying in-game gold with real-world money.

Is that a legit, allowed thing now? I thought it was most definitely NOT allowed, but I'd be the first to admit that I don't know everything.

Dolphinsgal

No it's in the ToS that selling gold for RL money is not allowed and will have action taken against your account up to and including perma banned. Zos and Microsoft can track where gold went and can also ban accounts that buy gold as well...at least that's what I got last time I read ToS

SeaGtGruff

That's what I thought.

I was going to report the account that was spamming zone chat, but I got distracted by something and swapped characters because I was doing my daily crafting writs, and I can't remember the account name; it was something that looked a bit like random letters.

A lot of the other players in zone chat were commenting to each other about the ad, so hopefully somebody reported it.

Dolphinsgal

If you see it again if you can get ss or pictures/video to include in the report it'll most likely help zos with building a case for perma ban...ss and recording is easy on xbox not sure about pc or ps...I personally wouldn't even comment on it in game other than to report the gt

Brrrofski

Only if you do it through the crown store, so they profit from it

ZeroDPS

here is the thing, ZOS cant actually track accounts for selling gold, even an account advertising such service in zone chat most likely is fake account, so ZOS ban/unban them they really dont care... And there will be people who gonna use their service

SeaGtGruff

Well, there was a big bust overseas several months ago, or last year, in which a number of people were arrested for making a lot of money by selling stuff in video games, so the authorities do investigate and prosecute thus sort of thing. ZOS might not be able to do a lot if the account is a fake, or-- as some of the oeople in zone chat were suggesting-- was hacked, but they can certainly alert any authorities in the appropriate nations about the advertised web site so it can be investigated, right?

etchedpixels

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

they can certainly alert any authorities in the appropriate nations about the advertised web site so it can be investigated, right?

Authorities deal with criminal activities. ToS breaches for some random game is a civil matter so it would be up to Microsoft to try and get such a site shut down, and that won't happen in must jurisdictions. It's not just gold either, if you are sad enough you can buy chromium platings for dollars and all sorts of stuff from dodgy sites.

It's not invisible though. People who generate vast quanities of gold and keep sending big piles of it in one off large chunks to random other players show up rather well in any kind of MMO logging, as does the list of people who received it.

ive_wonder

Sounds more like something related to hacking, if those types of deals were popular we would see much larger amount of those advertisements, so yeah, definetely something fishy is going on there.
Unleash the mighty banhammer on those fools!

EdmondDontes

At least one person is selling in game gold for real life money on eBay.

_Zathras_

Brrrofski wrote: »

Only if you do it through the crown store, so they profit from it

^ This.

Crown sellers are everywhere. It is the same as buying gold, but with ZOS as the middleman. It is still RMT, but sanctioned.

Person with real life bucks ---> (Crown Store purchase) ---> Sells to person who gives them gold

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing. GW2 goes the same thing with Gems, and probably so do many other games. It at least cuts down on the plague of gold selling bots (or does it?)

SeaGtGruff

etchedpixels wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

they can certainly alert any authorities in the appropriate nations about the advertised web site so it can be investigated, right?

Authorities deal with criminal activities. ToS breaches for some random game is a civil matter so it would be up to Microsoft to try and get such a site shut down, and that won't happen in must jurisdictions.

I realize that, but the big bust several months ago was because the people were buying all sorts of expensive goods with their ill-gotten funds and apparently weren't paying taxes or whatever. Money that's made through criminal enterprises generally does not go through "the proper channels" as it's being made, and must often be laundered or whatever. So a simple TOS violation might be up to ZOS and Microsoft to deal with, but in a situation like this there's probably a lot more than a simple TOS violation going on.

PeacefulAnarchy

Saw this person In Vvardenfell today, reported them, some other people in chat apparently did too.

Fennwitty

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

etchedpixels wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

they can certainly alert any authorities in the appropriate nations about the advertised web site so it can be investigated, right?

Authorities deal with criminal activities. ToS breaches for some random game is a civil matter so it would be up to Microsoft to try and get such a site shut down, and that won't happen in must jurisdictions.

I realize that, but the big bust several months ago was because the people were buying all sorts of expensive goods with their ill-gotten funds and apparently weren't paying taxes or whatever. Money that's made through criminal enterprises generally does not go through "the proper channels" as it's being made, and must often be laundered or whatever. So a simple TOS violation might be up to ZOS and Microsoft to deal with, but in a situation like this there's probably a lot more than a simple TOS violation going on.

It's very much about following laws. Not merely 'because ZoS/Microsoft says so' but those companies 'selling gold' through third party websites are inherently illegal, and the odds that they pay their national taxes and what they do with their money are highly suspect.

We may not agree with ZoS/Microsoft's decided practices -- but they follow the laws that are applied to such companies around the world.

ZoS/Microsoft have legal responsibilities for ensuring customers are using legitimate currency, and reporting/taking certain actions if believed otherwise (if you report your credit card stolen, they won't continue to use your card, etc.). They also pass on some amount of tax, and the way they use their profits is largely documented as per various laws.

The websites botting or using underpaid humans to collect in-game money, then selling it to whoever wants it are inherently not following the laws (for one, they don't have legal permission to be doing that!), they aren't making sure credit cards are 'legitimate', and how they use their money is completely opaque.

They might even sell your credit card info to other dark sites after the transaction!

If you only look at the surface level, yes it's similar to the official methods but the difference is under that surface.

belial5221_ESO

There's now ppl spamming websites to buy eso gold for real money.I thought they were gone completely in PC,but they are back.Guess with basegame on sale so cheap they buying it to make a quick buck before banned.

UntilValhalla13

Bot farmers never left console, so I'm sure the sites are still rampant.

starkerealm

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Today I've seen an account spamming zone chat with a web address-- with spaces between each character and using commas instead of periods, apparently to bypass chat filters or something-- advertising the sale of in-game gold for real-world money, as well as the sale of Crown Crates for real-world money. I think this was on both the PC EU and PC NA servers, but it might have been just the PC NA server. Initially I ignored it, because I mistakenly thought it was advertising a site for buying Crowns (or Crown Store items) with in-game gold. But I kept seeing it appear over and over in different zones as I swapped characters or traveled to different zones for quests. So the last time I saw it come up, I stopped to read it more carefully and realized it was talking about buying in-game gold with real-world money.

Is that a legit, allowed thing now? I thought it was most definitely NOT allowed, but I'd be the first to admit that I don't know everything.

Adding to this, there've been some changes to the report setup, and it's no longer clear how you report this guy. There used to be a top level spamming/goldselling category for player reporting, but that was lost with the most recent revision.

zaria

etchedpixels wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

they can certainly alert any authorities in the appropriate nations about the advertised web site so it can be investigated, right?

Authorities deal with criminal activities. ToS breaches for some random game is a civil matter so it would be up to Microsoft to try and get such a site shut down, and that won't happen in must jurisdictions. It's not just gold either, if you are sad enough you can buy chromium platings for dollars and all sorts of stuff from dodgy sites.

It's not invisible though. People who generate vast quanities of gold and keep sending big piles of it in one off large chunks to random other players show up rather well in any kind of MMO logging, as does the list of people who received it.

TOS breaking is not even civil law but internal rules like the soccer or chess rules, no you can not carry the ball unless you are the goalkeeper, its not an issue if the ball is not in play like you having to retrieve it. But running around carrying the ball or moving an pawn backward will get you kicked out fast. Law does not apply here.

Law come into play if you steal real money, stealing in ESO is not criminal or hurt other people like empty their ESO bank.