Healer queue for battlegrounds

HiImRex

BGs would benefit greatly if we had healer roles in BGs and the queue can split healers up on different teams.

KilianDermoth

I don't think so! I even don't think that it is a good idea to queue as a full healer in pvp at all. Also I don't think so that we even need to support more healing in PVP (and I say that as someone who is on the higher end of healing done in many battlegrounds).

One thing you should understand is: pvp isn't PvE!

the1andonlyskwex

How would you enforce such a thing? The PvE queues already have problems with fake tanks and healers and at least there someone could argue that tanks and healers are necessary to complete some of the content (in a PuG, at least). In PvP, there isn't even an expectation that your team will win, let alone be competitive, or even have a healer at all.

All a healer-only queue would do is create an incentive to queue as a fake for shorter wait times.

KilianDermoth

Also this would be really unbalanced. Whether healers were useless and the team with the healer would be on a disadvantage or healers would be useful (and they are in coordinated groups) then groups without a good healer would be on a big disadvantag and a kind of a hybrid build (like most pvp characters are) would probably not be able to make up for a missing real healer.

Also any game mode where you cant walk along as a pack of 4 would suffer, because healer can't be everywhere.

The whole thing would remove the skill needed to survive pvp that is necessarily now and would replace it with fine tuning builds for group play.

I guess the suggestion comes from a healer who set foot into a few battlegrounds while he had to farm alliance points for warhorn and barrier and was pissed that it wasn't a low effort easy thing to get it.

I see that it is somehow bad that healers and tanks have to go through this especially if they don't like pvping but destroying pvp because of this for everyone else isnt the right way.

YoureWrongImRight

Not sure what people are expecting when you load into an MMO and want to play any sort of meaningful content. MMO's by their nature are team based games. When you load into a battleground you may queue as a solo, but you are being placed onto a team of 4. It is absolutely team based play, it is not solo play.

Perhaps you would be more satisfied with an entirely new queue option for Battle Royale with no teams at all. You can just run around and smash each other as 12 solos. That way you can just play without what is supposed to be 2/3 of the games roles as nobody would queue as healer or tank.

Side not here, I wouldn't call *Hold block and spam vigor+coagulating blood* or *Hold block and spam Honor the Dead* "skill". Which is basically the current state of battlegrounds now.

Teams without support classes SHOULD be at a disadvantage, if they are not then the role obviously has no value. If you're better off just having another DPS over a support class because their role is so diminished and useless then what value is there in having them in the game.

Having a specific support role queue is not an entirely bad idea as long as the role is meaningful. If you are truly at a disadvantage by not having a support role then there is far less motivation to fake queue as one as it would mean doom for you anyway as you would in all likelihood lose the match.

You can help get around some of these issues with team vote kick as well. You designate which player has queued as support, if that person is not a support, you have the team vote kick option to remove that player and load in the next available support player. The other players must all agree to the vote to kick that person. Will this lead to some troll kicking at times for unjust reasons... yea probably... but that would likely be few and far between and solve more problems than it is causing. Everything is a trade off and nothing is perfect, the goal is to swap large problems for smaller problems if possible.

In the current state of the game with support roles being basically useless due to the effectiveness of self healing and mitigation it would never work.

KilianDermoth

Team ist one thing, team consisting of Healer, Tank and 2 DD is the other thing, the usual PVE team, but PVP works totally different...

Also there are modes where you will have to split, for example 1 and 3 or 2 and 2 (relic hunting for example) and sometimes it can even be advantageous to go 4x solo (Endphase of insane king), depending on Situation, game mode and enemy teams.

A dedicated healer will always be priority target no. 1 and dead or the heals are so strong that no one dies. Both is nonsense in PVP, it just won't work or the balance would be total crap. In PVP everyone has to be kind of hybrid and be able to survive at least for a short time on his own.

And this has nothing to do with Teamplay vs. Soloplay. A good team will try to separate people or focus them down one by one so that you won't be a 4 player team the most of the time and it would be total [snip] pvp experience if you couldnt do anything in a such situation.

It would lead into 3 Teams consisting of players fortifying themself and fearing to do the first meaningful step just sitting there healing themself up (like you can often see done by bad players). No thanks, I and I think most pvp players, too, prefer an action based pvp experience,

[snip]

If it's about the leveling thing then the problem is just that the best support skills available for any class are in pvp skilllines, what is odd and if you want to ease it up for healers you should fix that and not break battlegrounds...

Here are 2 guides which explain how pvp especially battlegrounds work, which roles pvp has (not healer, tank, damage dealer!) and how Teamplay works (not 4 Player create 1 unit and stand in one place like it is in PvE):
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/92ncse/guide_how_to_win_battlegrounds_hints_for/

https://divnyi.gitlab.io/weird-eso-builds/lets-talk-about-meta/

[Edited for Baiting]

ketsparrowhawk

Not gonna happen. The best BG premades I've seen don't even have a dedicated healer. 4 DD's, each with off-heals.

KilianDermoth

Exactly this!

YoureWrongImRight

KilianDermoth wrote: »

Team ist one thing, team consisting of Healer, Tank and 2 DD is the other thing, the usual PVE team, but PVP works totally different...

Also there are modes where you will have to split, for example 1 and 3 or 2 and 2 (relic hunting for example) and sometimes it can even be advantageous to go 4x solo (Endphase of insane king), depending on Situation, game mode and enemy teams.

A dedicated healer will always be priority target no. 1 and dead or the heals are so strong that no one dies. Both is nonsense in PVP, it just won't work or the balance would be total crap. In PVP everyone has to be kind of hybrid and be able to survive at least for a short time on his own.

And this has nothing to do with Teamplay vs. Soloplay. A good team will try to separate people or focus them down one by one so that you won't be a 4 player team the most of the time and it would be total [snip] pvp experience if you couldnt do anything in a such situation.

It would lead into 3 Teams consisting of players fortifying themself and fearing to do the first meaningful step just sitting there healing themself up (like you can often see done by bad players). No thanks, I and I think most pvp players, too, prefer an action based pvp experience,

[snip]

If it's about the leveling thing then the problem is just that the best support skills available for any class are in pvp skilllines, what is odd and if you want to ease it up for healers you should fix that and not break battlegrounds...

Here are 2 guides which explain how pvp especially battlegrounds work, which roles pvp has (not healer, tank, damage dealer!) and how Teamplay works (not 4 Player create 1 unit and stand in one place like it is in PvE):
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/92ncse/guide_how_to_win_battlegrounds_hints_for/

https://divnyi.gitlab.io/weird-eso-builds/lets-talk-about-meta/

[Edited for Baiting]

[snip] Support classes are at the core of basically any true PvP game and the DPS is built around them. Their role should always be of the utmost importance and they should bring abilities to the table that DPS cannot or would not bother bringing themselves as it would hinder their abilities too much in other ways.

Basic changes to some of the abilities and skill lines could help facilitate this and bring more variety to the game.

MMOs have always been about the rock/paper/scissors idea. I choose to build my character like this, because of that choice I am better against players who have a character like this and worse against a character like that. Everyone has their place and is or can be useful in their own way. What I see too much of people saying on here is "I AM A ROCK, ROCK SMASH,I SMASH ALL". It is the most narrow minded view of PvP play.

If someone likes to play a tank and just be a hulking mass they should be able to do that and have some type of mechanics that make that possible, something where they are good at what they do and that can have a powerful impact on how the match plays out if they do it well. An example of this is guard, why is it so weak? Why is it only 30% reduction, I'd like to see it as double that, 60% reduction. If that tank can stick well to their team mate they can have a powerful impact on his ability to continue putting out pressure. They each have their role and they are both important. Because of this we might see more people starting to slot Fiery Grip to pull the dps away from his tank so that they can kill him, or more concerns about slowing the tank down so the dps breaks the tether. And then we have more mechanics at play that make the game more challenging and add more dynamics other than just who has the biggest stick.

We are in agreement that PvP is not PvE, we don't need exactly defined line ups of 2 DPS 1 healer, 1 tank. It doesn't need to be that way, but it should be beneficial to have variety and be effective when played well. Supports should be able to cancel out DPS if played well just like DPS can cancel them out if they perform better at their specific role.
If anything I think the queue should actually be expanded to teams of 5 or 6.

[snip] Making supports valuable elevates the experience to a new level, it does not retract from it as many would suggest. It makes new interesting styles of play possible and truly elevates the good players above the rest not the other way around. Those who are skilled would find that they are performing even better than they are now, so they should not be concerned.

[Edited for Rude Comments]