Magden PVP Builds?

Yubarius

I love my Mag warden for it's theme, unique skills, and overall most fun class to play imo. I really love that I have the ability to tank, heal and dps in PvE and PvP making alts unnecessary. I realize that with all Hybrid classes we inevitably pay the hybrid tax. I wanted to know what your take is on how best to run a PVP damage Magden this patch as I don't understand how to get the best bang for my buck on skills.

Magden gets bonus damage on Screaming Cliff Racer based on range (I think up to +15%) which is all well and good.....

But then my only class stun option is Arctic Wind which takes 3 seconds to stun and is melee range

For the sake of argument lets say I decide to play the melee range with Arctic Wind. If I'm putting myself in melee range as a caster there's no way I'm able to run majority light armor. So I run something like 4H 2L 1M, but now I've lost pen, sustain, and have to be in melee range.

I guess I don't understand how Wardens are expected to DPS PvP AT ALL when there are such conflicting skill designs between range/melee, a [snip] stun, and our execute being on the bear which has to be double barred smh.

Is Magden just pigeonholed into being a heal/tank in PvP just like in PvE, or have you found ways to make these garbage skills useful in PvP through different sets/weapon/skill combos?

[edited for profanity bypass]

fred4

Magden came last in a recent PvP class review I watched. It sucks, because it neither has a reliable stun nor execute. Maybe the bear works in duels, I don't know, but in open world it does too much of it's own thing and is hardly ever in the right place at the right time. Executes are situational. The bear is just bad.

In regard to light armor, a magicka-stacking shielding build is viable. I run Ancient Grace, Necropotence, Death Dealer's Fete, Trainee / Domihaus / Swarm Mothers with a 1H+S back bar and Inner Light on both bars to sit anywhere from 50K to 60K magicka in CP. The latter is reachable with Northern Storm, which buffs your magicka for 30 seconds. Use Dampen Magic, not Harness. If under pressure alternate between Dampen Magic and Living Trellis. The latter is only a small burst heal, but alternating it with a big shield works and Trellis is more cost-efficient than the mushroom heal. I find it's still a magicka hungry build and invariably end up with the Atro mundus, all mag recovery enchants and Witchmother's on a Breton. That much sustain, however, does allow you to gradually recover from sticky situations. A single player won't easily kill you, if at all, and the high magicka makes for a fairly high damage build.

The trouble is that you're not a sorc. You neither have the sorc mobility nor the sorc burst. I ended up ditching Bird of Prey for Race Against Time. I'm also an ardent believer in stamina sustain for dodge rolls and thus run the Bull Netch (explaining why I need so much mag regen). You're still basically a sitting duck. I'm a solo / duo player, but magden is more a group play class, I guess. That means, instead of magicka stacking, you probably want to bring some group utility to the table instead. Off the top of my head you might try Dark Convergence + the warden teleporting rune for a unique build, but that feels kind of last patch. I don't know what magden actually excels at.

The birds have a delayed action, but I run them, because all animal skills heal when they expire. In other words birds are a small spammable heal in addition to doing damage. Same with Deep Fissure. Arctic Blast is decent, but the whole package is mainly just pressure. Good enough to shoo nightblades away (since they also can't kill you) but not good enough to kill decent players. If you want a better stun, there's Flame Clench along with possibly a Master's flame staff. You might also play around with vampire. Deep Fissure + Vampire stun / drain may be decent.

In the past I might have said, try something like Hrothgar + Winterborn, but that's because Hrothgar was broken. It has, of course, been toroughly nerfed. On the other hand I saw a magblade build recently, which combined Plaguebreak with Vicious Death. The guy would put a PvE destro ult on groups manning the ram in front of a keep door, then spam Elemental Ring on them from up on the keep wall. That kind of build is single purpose, but should be viable on any class. Perhaps it could be adapted to warden somehow. Plaguebreak is nasty AOE and magden can do a lot of AOE pressure. You only need to kill the weakest link.

fred4

For what it's worth, this is what my entirely unambitious magicka-stacking build looks like. Damage and defense is decent, but it only attempts to do pressure. I don't play it much.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=409059

ESO_Nightingale

magicka warden has the worst self healing of any magicka class in the game, an incredibly unreliable stun, meh bulk, awful sustain and decent damage. no reason to play it over something else. magicka necromancer is basically it but much, much better in every way.

xDeusEJRx

Yubarius wrote: »

I love my Mag warden for it's theme, unique skills, and overall most fun class to play imo. I really love that I have the ability to tank, heal and dps in PvE and PvP making alts unnecessary. I realize that with all Hybrid classes we inevitably pay the hybrid tax. I wanted to know what your take is on how best to run a PVP damage Magden this patch as I don't understand how to get the best bang for my buck on skills.

Magden gets bonus damage on Screaming Cliff Racer based on range (I think up to +15%) which is all well and good.....

But then my only class stun option is Arctic Wind which takes 3 seconds to stun and is melee range

For the sake of argument lets say I decide to play the melee range with Arctic Wind. If I'm putting myself in melee range as a caster there's no way I'm able to run majority light armor. So I run something like 4H 2L 1M, but now I've lost pen, sustain, and have to be in melee range.

I guess I don't understand how Wardens are expected to DPS PvP AT ALL when there are such conflicting skill designs between range/melee, a [snip] stun, and our execute being on the bear which has to be double barred smh.

Is Magden just pigeonholed into being a heal/tank in PvP just like in PvE, or have you found ways to make these garbage skills useful in PvP through different sets/weapon/skill combos?

Get Zoal's monster helm from imperial city. Combine that with arctic blast's stun and you have two relatively reliable stuns, after using both I don't need to worry about CC's anymore tbh.

I think melee magden is probably the best way to play. I run dual wield with vampire spammable as my spammable ability. One sword and one mace. As for armor types, I personally always run 3 H 3 L 1 M. I don't like having debuffs on my mag toons and 3 H 3 L combo counters buffs you're receiving and you're getting the most consistent damage/tankiness.

My bar setup is Blood for blood(could use arterial burst instead but I prefer BFB because sustain is amazing since you dont use magicka), arctic wind, deep fissure, structured entropy, blue betty and Vamp ult
Back barred Ice fortress, living trellis, radiating regen(or rapid if you prefer), blessing of protection, mist form and Life giver ultimate

[edited to remove quote]

fred4

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

magicka warden has the worst self healing of any magicka class in the game...

Ironically it felt really bulky when it was introduced, due to it's healing. On the one hand I agree, on the other hand I think this could be the result of everyone trying to make playable builds that avoid the delayed Cliff Racer as the spammable and that, perhaps, don't shield. Magden actually has heals oozing out of every pore. Trellis, Cliff Racer, Deep Fissure, Arctic Blast in my build. Enough that I'm happy to run 1H+S and no defensive ult. In general I find 1H+S feels tankier than resto, despite having been told that blocking has no effect while you have the shield up. Nonetheless I instinctively block-cast my heal and shield while under pressure and find that makes a difference. This is, incidentally, one of the reasons I like Bull Netch for stamina sustain over alternatives you might use. It keeps giving you stamina while blocking or sprinting.

I think magden has suffered from adjustments and meta shifts. Building for magicka is no longer "in". If you want to use any proc, aside from the nerfed Hrothgar, it's all about spell damage. Flame Clench and Shock Clench have both been nerfed. The Master Destro isn't really the thing to use anymore. In previous patches a Master Shock Staff would turn a magden into a pure AOE monster. The Arctic Blast heal was nerfed, I believe. Maybe using the vamp stun is still viable, I don't know.

ESO_Nightingale

fred4 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

magicka warden has the worst self healing of any magicka class in the game...

Ironically it felt really bulky when it was introduced, due to it's healing. On the one hand I agree, on the other hand I think this could be the result of everyone trying to make playable builds that avoid the delayed Cliff Racer as the spammable and that, perhaps, don't shield. Magden actually has heals oozing out of every pore. Trellis, Cliff Racer, Deep Fissure, Arctic Blast in my build. Enough that I'm happy to run 1H+S and no defensive ult. In general I find 1H+S feels tankier than resto, despite having been told that blocking has no effect while you have the shield up. Nonetheless I instinctively block-cast my heal and shield while under pressure and find that makes a difference. This is, incidentally, one of the reasons I like Bull Netch for stamina sustain over alternatives you might use. It keeps giving you stamina while blocking or sprinting.

I think magden has suffered from adjustments and meta shifts. Building for magicka is no longer "in". If you want to use any proc, aside from the nerfed Hrothgar, it's all about spell damage. Flame Clench and Shock Clench have both been nerfed. The Master Destro isn't really the thing to use anymore. In previous patches a Master Shock Staff would turn a magden into a pure AOE monster. The Arctic Blast heal was nerfed, I believe. Maybe using the vamp stun is still viable, I don't know.

bond with nature is a heal, sure, but it's not exactly noticible during actual combat unless you sit in a corner for 10 seconds spamming betty. a lot of people like to point out that magicka warden has so many healing skills which is true, but the important thing is that none of them are actually enough to keep magden alive most of the time because every burst option availiable to it is worse than blessing of restoration. shields also aren't worth anything with a cost that high and a value that low. shrooms heals less than it, and costs as much as breath of life, you need to build 50k health in order to get a solid heal out of blast now, budding requires 2 gcds to heal as much as what breath of life heals in 1, and same with living trellis execpt that it heals half the amount per gcd. bursting vines doesn't even heal the caster and forces a reposition after a projectile cast.

fred4

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

magicka warden has the worst self healing of any magicka class in the game...

Ironically it felt really bulky when it was introduced, due to it's healing. On the one hand I agree, on the other hand I think this could be the result of everyone trying to make playable builds that avoid the delayed Cliff Racer as the spammable and that, perhaps, don't shield. Magden actually has heals oozing out of every pore. Trellis, Cliff Racer, Deep Fissure, Arctic Blast in my build. Enough that I'm happy to run 1H+S and no defensive ult. In general I find 1H+S feels tankier than resto, despite having been told that blocking has no effect while you have the shield up. Nonetheless I instinctively block-cast my heal and shield while under pressure and find that makes a difference. This is, incidentally, one of the reasons I like Bull Netch for stamina sustain over alternatives you might use. It keeps giving you stamina while blocking or sprinting.

I think magden has suffered from adjustments and meta shifts. Building for magicka is no longer "in". If you want to use any proc, aside from the nerfed Hrothgar, it's all about spell damage. Flame Clench and Shock Clench have both been nerfed. The Master Destro isn't really the thing to use anymore. In previous patches a Master Shock Staff would turn a magden into a pure AOE monster. The Arctic Blast heal was nerfed, I believe. Maybe using the vamp stun is still viable, I don't know.

bond with nature is a heal, sure, but it's not exactly noticible during actual combat unless you sit in a corner for 10 seconds spamming betty. a lot of people like to point out that magicka warden has so many healing skills which is true, but the important thing is that none of them are actually enough to keep magden alive most of the time because every burst option availiable to it is worse than blessing of restoration. shields also aren't worth anything with a cost that high and a value that low. shrooms heals less than it, and costs as much as breath of life, you need to build 50k health in order to get a solid heal out of blast now, budding requires 2 gcds to heal as much as what breath of life heals in 1, and same with living trellis execpt that it heals half the amount per gcd. bursting vines doesn't even heal the caster and forces a reposition after a projectile cast.

Most people who play the class should be more expert at it than me and, thus, I assume you are. I play it very little and I've only ever played one build. I will say that, if you go the shielding route, you will want 50K+ magicka. Not 45K. 50K+. Also not Harness Magicka, but Dampen Magic. This probably rules out no CP and shoehorns you into some very specific sets, such as the ones I have listed. At least that gives you damage as well, unlike building for 50K health. I must admit that this build seemed better in the past when Northern Storm gave a permanent +10% magicka, when CP gave +20% and when shields could not be crit. That's despite the fact we now have Death Dealer's Fete and flat magicka buffs from CP.

Trellis works in this build, because alternating it with the shield gives you time to recover your health. That's in a worst case scenario, e.g. when you got ganked with your pants down, you messed up your rotation or you are getting zerged. You should always keep up Trellis, which at only 10 seconds is kind of painful, but does mean you should never have to cast it twice for the small burst heal. Of course you're not going to go into a corner and spam your netch to heal, but both Bond with Nature and Trellis offset the damage you take on an ongoing basis. The last scenario, getting zerged, is where a shielding build without sorc-like mobility fails, to be honest, but you can't really argue with being beaten by multiple players, even though we know that 1vXing is a thing.

All of this is not to say that I disbelieve you, but it reinforces my perception that there are only a few builds that work and that a mag-stacking build is one of them. What about xDeusEJRx's build, though? I don't play vampire, but his choices, Mist Form, Blood for Blood, and so on, seem logical to offset magden's weaknesses.

OBJnoob

My two cents… also not worth much because I haven’t played my magden in a patch or three…

I think people forget that magdens get bonuses to magic damage as well as frost. I used to run mine sorta as a dot build. The fetcherflies do really good damage and I think I was using a dot from the mages guild (entropy but not the version that gives sorcery,) and possibly even a magic dot from the soul magic skill line. They all tooltipped at around 1k damage per second which to me is the threshold for viability on a dot.

Then of course… say it was a 1v1… people would tend to charge you and wanna get in close. So now you’re Arctic blast is hitting them, hopefully about to stun them, even without an executioner I found that a well timed combination of shalks and impulse would finish them off. And that was before impulse was buffed.

Playing this way wasn’t great but it wasn’t bad either. I used Valkyn skoria as a monster set. I wore Hist Sap light armor on the body (5 piece heals you for like 1.8k every second for 5 seconds when hit by a snare stun or immobilization…. No cool down on the proc.)

I used double destro inferno and shock.

Honestly I loved playing it. It felt super original and totally viable.

ESO_Nightingale

fred4 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

magicka warden has the worst self healing of any magicka class in the game...

Ironically it felt really bulky when it was introduced, due to it's healing. On the one hand I agree, on the other hand I think this could be the result of everyone trying to make playable builds that avoid the delayed Cliff Racer as the spammable and that, perhaps, don't shield. Magden actually has heals oozing out of every pore. Trellis, Cliff Racer, Deep Fissure, Arctic Blast in my build. Enough that I'm happy to run 1H+S and no defensive ult. In general I find 1H+S feels tankier than resto, despite having been told that blocking has no effect while you have the shield up. Nonetheless I instinctively block-cast my heal and shield while under pressure and find that makes a difference. This is, incidentally, one of the reasons I like Bull Netch for stamina sustain over alternatives you might use. It keeps giving you stamina while blocking or sprinting.

I think magden has suffered from adjustments and meta shifts. Building for magicka is no longer "in". If you want to use any proc, aside from the nerfed Hrothgar, it's all about spell damage. Flame Clench and Shock Clench have both been nerfed. The Master Destro isn't really the thing to use anymore. In previous patches a Master Shock Staff would turn a magden into a pure AOE monster. The Arctic Blast heal was nerfed, I believe. Maybe using the vamp stun is still viable, I don't know.

bond with nature is a heal, sure, but it's not exactly noticible during actual combat unless you sit in a corner for 10 seconds spamming betty. a lot of people like to point out that magicka warden has so many healing skills which is true, but the important thing is that none of them are actually enough to keep magden alive most of the time because every burst option availiable to it is worse than blessing of restoration. shields also aren't worth anything with a cost that high and a value that low. shrooms heals less than it, and costs as much as breath of life, you need to build 50k health in order to get a solid heal out of blast now, budding requires 2 gcds to heal as much as what breath of life heals in 1, and same with living trellis execpt that it heals half the amount per gcd. bursting vines doesn't even heal the caster and forces a reposition after a projectile cast.

Most people who play the class should be more expert at it than me and, thus, I assume you are. I play it very little and I've only ever played one build. I will say that, if you go the shielding route, you will want 50K+ magicka. Not 45K. 50K+. Also not Harness Magicka, but Dampen Magic. This probably rules out no CP and shoehorns you into some very specific sets, such as the ones I have listed. At least that gives you damage as well, unlike building for 50K health. I must admit that this build seemed better in the past when Northern Storm gave a permanent +10% magicka, when CP gave +20% and when shields could not be crit. That's despite the fact we now have Death Dealer's Fete and flat magicka buffs from CP.

Trellis works in this build, because alternating it with the shield gives you time to recover your health. That's in a worst case scenario, e.g. when you got ganked with your pants down, you messed up your rotation or you are getting zerged. You should always keep up Trellis, which at only 10 seconds is kind of painful, but does mean you should never have to cast it twice for the small burst heal. Of course you're not going to go into a corner and spam your netch to heal, but both Bond with Nature and Trellis offset the damage you take on an ongoing basis. The last scenario, getting zerged, is where a shielding build without sorc-like mobility fails, to be honest, but you can't really argue with being beaten by multiple players, even though we know that 1vXing is a thing.

All of this is not to say that I disbelieve you, but it reinforces my perception that there are only a few builds that work and that a mag-stacking build is one of them. What about s build, though? I don't play vampire, but his choices, Mist Form, Blood for Blood, and so on, seem logical to offset magden's weaknesses.

I have no idea who xDeusEJRx is but i'd be seriously concerned if they're using blood for blood instead of arterial. some of the better magdens i know argue that arterial is the best spammable we have, and i can understand that, but i dislike it as our kit is really bad at slowing enemies unless we sacrifice a slot for impaling shards which doesn't feel worth it to me, chasing after enemies just to be in melee range to hit them feels bad. in terms of healing there's just no reason to play it. building max magicka for shields is a thing of the past. it's not viable anymore even though it used to be the best strategy. trust me, tried it. mist form isn't awful in my experience, but again, it doesn't save magden. literally nothing does. it's so much worse than every option. the biggest overarching problem is that it can't achieve a balanced build that does sustain, survivability and damage all at once. the biggest hinderance it has in that regard is surviability.

monkiie

Magden is objectively the worst spec in the game in almost every way. I went from solely playing magden for years to quitting it entirely after the arctic blast nerf. When compared to every other class is falls tremendously short. Don't waste your time on this horrible, horrible excuse for a class.