My last pain DK pain point

ke.sardenb14_ESO

I have to say this has been a strong patch for Stamina DK as a whole(in PvE). At first, I didn't think the whip would work on a Stam build, but I can't remember a time where I have performed so well in content, it weaves well, the fury mini-game is fun, and the damage is spectacular. But, this begs the question, why now would I, a Stamina DK, ever use stone giant instead:

Pros:
-It buffs all incoming damage, yours and your party on a target by up to 195, before crit.
- It provides minor brutality to you and the party
-It give you ultimate every few seconds increasing sustain.

Cons:
-Because of the world in ruin passive, just the base damage of whip is 5% higher than stone giant. With the addition of the fury stacks from motlen whip, or off balance with flame lash the damage done could be easily double that of stone giant.
-Stone giant has the delay of a skill like snipe or wrecking blow, but the damage of a instant spammable. Making the pay off even worse when whip can be used at least 1-2 times more often per rotation.
-The ultimate gain from stone giant at best results in maybe 5 total ults, in a fight that you may only get 4 without, which means the sustain benefit is nearly negligible, and a build with whip will still out out damage with the extra utl. Whip has a 10% chance to proc combustion on its own, and with the right set up can nearly pay for itself.
-Outside of the locking of block, there is no downside to a support running stone giant instead. And so long as that support keeps the skill up it is just as good as a Stamina DK. Not to mention if that support is build to run engulfing flames with it's max benefit, whip will do even more damage to the target.

So what if:
-The stonegiant causes poison damage, bumping it by 5% in damage, allowing it to proc combustion for better sustain as well. It would not reach the ridiculous damage that flipping with whip would do but the improvement would be consistent. This also would improve the DKs performance overall in a group bring morang tong.
-I don't care if the skill is melee or not(granted the DKs kit is built for melee), but removing the channel would smooth out the skill improving it's usage in rotations or hectic encounters. Or making the channel consistent(less ideal) and scaling it with wrecking blow whole also improve it and disinetives tanks from using.
-If stagger scaled with stamina and weapon damage in a similar fashion to engulfing flames, that would at the very least make it worth it to not use it on a tank. I'd also improve the max benefit from stagger, maybe cap it at 250-300 if you have at least 4k weapon damage and 30k stamina, to improve it's impact in solo settings.
-Bonus: ZoS mentioned the possibility of moving stone giant when it was first introduced, so what if the it switched skill bars with chains. While you would lose the utl and minor brutality, you would be able to build fury stacks with fist, chosing to either keep your weapon damage, or flipping for big damage every 3 cast. The change would allow tanks benefit more form the earthen heart passives with chains.

So what are the communities thoughs? Do you think stone giant needs an update? Do you like my ideas?

nihoumab14_ESO

Honestly zos should rework stonefist entirely from the ground up. It should be a healer skill through and through, and zos should create a second morph for healing, as DK has no skills that are dedicated to healing for both morphs, limiting healer variety for the class. Stonefist was never well received, and DK healer needs a bit more love to fully reach its potential. Maybe a morph where you cast it directly on your target instead of an enemy, but only heal a second target for half as much?

ke.sardenb14_ESO

@nihoumab14_ESO
DK healers are not bad because they lack diticated healing morphs, they are bad because they lack utility. What does a DK healer bring to a group that no one else can? DK tanks can run igneous shield giving the party increased healing, minor weapon damage, and a decent shield. DK tanks and StamDK can build stagger stacks with stone giant. DK tanks and MagDK can apply engulfing flames. Igenous weapon could be one option, but with everyone running power pots and no one heavy attacking, it is not that great.
While making stone giant a skill for healer would help them, it would rob stamina DK of the one thing they were intended to bring to the group, as well as leave them with a total of 2 stamina costing abilities in their entire kit. Why not look at skill that no one uses and let them provide utility that way, like scales? Or change morphs that are clearly less effective like burning talon's to buff the party and provide a synergy?

Vevvev

DK healer has a lot of utility, they just have nothing healer specific as a single DK magDPS or DK tank renders a lot of their group buffs inconsequential as they're already present. Minor Brutality can be applied by any kind of DK and Enguling Flames is one of the primary damage dealing abilities by magDPS DKs so the 10% flame damage boost is omnipresent without your input if one is present. However, if you're the only DK in the group a DK healer can provide a lot of nice buffs and utility for the group.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

That is true, DK healers would shine more if DK was not one of the most popular tanks in the game. I still think DK healers lack a useful synergy of their own though.

ArcVelarian

At the barest minimum the cast time needs to go.