Wardens-Artic blast-other changes

Alchimiste1

I thought I'd make a quick post to address how overly nerfed artic is.

My current stamden has 48k health, with a powered trait on the backbar and I'm getting roughly 5.7k non-crit artic heals. Thats terrible.
Every other burst heal in the game heals for more than that. I understand that artic does many other things besides the initial burst heal. I suggest taking away the hot and making artic scale much better with health or even better make it scale well with weapon/spell damage, so wardens aren't forced to play with an absurd amount of health.

As a quick side note, I believe magden needs some buffs to put it more in line with other classes. The artic buff would help however I believe a good hard cc option is also needed. Also northern storm really isn't that good anymore in a game where max mag/stam is almost worthless.

McTaterskins

Agree that it was a bit heavy handed.

Especially given that in the process, werewolf heal was untouched and they implemented one for templar that's a bit over tuned.

MEBengalsFan2001

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I thought I'd make a quick post to address how overly nerfed artic is.

My current stamden has 48k health, with a powered trait on the backbar and I'm getting roughly 5.7k non-crit artic heals. Thats terrible.
Every other burst heal in the game heals for more than that. I understand that artic does many other things besides the initial burst heal. I suggest taking away the hot and making artic scale much better with health or even better make it scale well with weapon/spell damage, so wardens aren't forced to play with an absurd amount of health.

As a quick side note, I believe magden needs some buffs to put it more in line with other classes. The artic buff would help however I believe a good hard cc option is also needed. Also northern storm really isn't that good anymore in a game where max mag/stam is almost worthless.

Use vigor problem solved. Now if you using artic for its other features well that is on you to find another way to heal. I know many warden who are using artic not for the heal but for its stun effect.

Alchimiste1

@MEBengalsFan2001 "use vigor problem solved" ???

it's not problem solved. If you aren't using vigor on stam that's a problem in itself. Vigor alone is not enough.

Necro has coil, and ghost.
templar has bubble ritual HOD
Dk has cauterize, coag, cinders
Nb, has cloak, or healthy offering

warden has has artic which is just bad.

Alchimiste1

as a side note Vigors tic for less than rapid regen these day lol
So no, just vigor is not a solution

xDeusEJRx

Disagree tbh, I think instead of making arctic better, they should just make warden mushroom heals better. They made both a stam/mag morph that scales off their stats for a reason. Instead of relying on arctic blast, either make their effects better or give them a base increase to match cost. I think arctic blast should stay as a utility ability rather than a primary heal

xylena_lazarow

Using Arctic left me wishing it was either a reliable burst HoT or a reliable stun, rather than being mediocre and unreliable at several things. Agree that stam shrooms could use a buff, even being a clone of the mag version would be better.

MEBengalsFan2001

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

@MEBengalsFan2001 "use vigor problem solved" ???

it's not problem solved. If you aren't using vigor on stam that's a problem in itself. Vigor alone is not enough.

Necro has coil, and ghost.
templar has bubble ritual HOD
Dk has cauterize, coag, cinders
Nb, has cloak, or healthy offering

warden has has artic which is just bad.

That's not true. You can use enchanted growth which boost your stamina, health and magika recovery or if you wanted you could go with soothing spores as that is a stamina morph. In addition you have healing seed, living vine and Green Lotus. The later increases your critical chance and can heal you.

There are plenty of skills Warden has for healing.

With frost cloak warden gets minor protection and other classes get other features like the Templar instead of getting minor protection it gets a heal if you stand on the rune. If you get off the rune no healing.

I play a Warden and I've tried a bunch of different healing out. Vigor with Enchanted Growth is more than enough for healing. I find Vigor usually does the trick and if I am low on Stamina I use Enchanted Growth for its boost to recovery and its healing.

If I am playing as a tank I wouldn't complain about Artic Blast because as a tank I do have a lot more health. But as a DPS there are other skills available. And like I said, if you are using it for the stun than it is a decent skill but if you are using it for a heal, there are better skills available to you.

MEBengalsFan2001

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

as a side note Vigors tic for less than rapid regen these day lol
So no, just vigor is not a solution

Resolving Vigor always heals you, rapid regen may hit another player. It isn't apples to apples comparison scenario. Vigor is superior simply because you get the heal every time. Rapid could result in you healing someone else and you die. I've experienced this before myself. I'm not a fan of rapid regen.

Alchimiste1

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

@MEBengalsFan2001 "use vigor problem solved" ???

it's not problem solved. If you aren't using vigor on stam that's a problem in itself. Vigor alone is not enough.

Necro has coil, and ghost.
templar has bubble ritual HOD
Dk has cauterize, coag, cinders
Nb, has cloak, or healthy offering

warden has has artic which is just bad.

That's not true. You can use enchanted growth which boost your stamina, health and magika recovery or if you wanted you could go with soothing spores as that is a stamina morph. In addition you have healing seed, living vine and Green Lotus. The later increases your critical chance and can heal you.

There are plenty of skills Warden has for healing.

With frost cloak warden gets minor protection and other classes get other features like the Templar instead of getting minor protection it gets a heal if you stand on the rune. If you get off the rune no healing.

I play a Warden and I've tried a bunch of different healing out. Vigor with Enchanted Growth is more than enough for healing. I find Vigor usually does the trick and if I am low on Stamina I use Enchanted Growth for its boost to recovery and its healing.

If I am playing as a tank I wouldn't complain about Artic Blast because as a tank I do have a lot more health. But as a DPS there are other skills available. And like I said, if you are using it for the stun than it is a decent skill but if you are using it for a heal, there are better skills available to you.

enchanted growth would heal you for less than artic. And actually, the stam morph on a non health build would heal you for less than artic heals on a health build and without any of the side effects. Living vines requires another friendly player to be with you and honestly the heal from that isn't much better than the heal from leeching. Stamden doesn't currently have room for lotus on an effective build.

I have played this game for years and I have played every class but magsorc. I am comparing warden's current healing and overall effectiveness in pvp to all other classes. really this should be addressed to zos

@ zos Artic was over-nerfed and needs a bit of a buff.

Alchimiste1

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Disagree tbh, I think instead of making arctic better, they should just make warden mushroom heals better. They made both a stam/mag morph that scales off their stats for a reason. Instead of relying on arctic blast, either make their effects better or give them a base increase to match cost. I think arctic blast should stay as a utility ability rather than a primary heal

This is also acceptable

Greek_Hellspawn

Imo one morph should deal damage and stun and have reduced cost, and the other should be the burst heal and hot but no dmg or stun. Buff the dmg from first morph and buff the burst heal on other morph.

ESO_Nightingale

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Disagree tbh, I think instead of making arctic better, they should just make warden mushroom heals better. They made both a stam/mag morph that scales off their stats for a reason. Instead of relying on arctic blast, either make their effects better or give them a base increase to match cost. I think arctic blast should stay as a utility ability rather than a primary heal

Yep. so many people are falling into the trap of suggesting that arctic blast should get magicka scaling when that is awfully silly. i know not everyone likes to analyse the crap out of the class like i do, but making it a magicka scaling skill fixes only 1 problem and does not do the class any favours in fixing it's other severe design problems.

think about it, we have an entire line dedicated to healing. green balance, and yet most of the skills in that tree underperform severely, changing the scaling to magicka literally just gives us a 6th magicka scaling heal. Arctic Blast does need to be changed, absolutely. But that morph should entirely drop healing to focus on stunning and damage. magicka wardens need an offensive class stun that goes to their enemy. not a defensive one like blast is in it's current state, as all it does is pidgeonhole wardens into playing in melee range in order to stun. it's good for stamden, but stamden isn't wanting for stuns.

Additionally, wardens have always had less overall damage skills than other classes, instead making up for that with an absurd amount of raw damage buffs/passives. when it comes to frost damage skills that many of us have been begging for, arctic blast is close to becoming a real option for magicka warden, but it is held back by the healing present on the skill, as well as the duration, so a change to this could allow it to become an actual option for us in pve and pvp.

my suggestions to fix a lot of these issues would be as follows:

1: Rework artic blast to have an offensive ranged stun component with some damage on it, that drops the healing and defensive stun, but keeps it's current cloak effect with doubled duration.

2: significantly buff enchanted growth's healing on self or living trellis's burst effect so that either can match something like breath of life but only reaching that amount with major mending procced. or rework bursting vines to only heal self and no longer gap close.

Additional Changes:

3: Change the damage type of Deep Fissure to frost damage for more interclass synergy and set synergy, and incorporate some additional method for it to be able to match subterranean assault's power as currently in pve magicka wardens use subterranean assault over deep fissure.

4: in the case where this would be too much damage for the warden to have, power can be taken out of the class in various different ways via the passive buffs, eg, the magic damage buff on piercing cold, minor berserk or minor vulnerability.

5: buff northern storm in some manner, as the major protection nerfs have lowered its general viability by a substantial degree outside of group pvp.

Alchimiste1

@ESO_Nightingale Those are all good suggestions. Doing all those is also another direction I wouldn't mind

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

After removing some unnecessary back and forth from this thread, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding.

MEBengalsFan2001

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

@MEBengalsFan2001 "use vigor problem solved" ???

it's not problem solved. If you aren't using vigor on stam that's a problem in itself. Vigor alone is not enough.

Necro has coil, and ghost.
templar has bubble ritual HOD
Dk has cauterize, coag, cinders
Nb, has cloak, or healthy offering

warden has has artic which is just bad.

Templar is my main and the Ritual isn't used much now because of Plague Break. As for the bubble it works only when you take damage. It isn't the best ability if you really need a quick heal. Than there is also channel focus but you need to stay on top of it to get a heal and that heal is horrible. The big heal for my magika templar is rapid regen and honor the dead and both have a chance to heal someone else and have when needed a heal.

I find damage migration works better than adding another healing ability. On my Stamden I dropped artic for additional damage migration and I find having less health makes my warden deal more damage and the extra migration allows me to stay in the fight actually longer. Also vigor is usually more than enough when I have all my defenses up and if not a tripot does the trick. No reason to waste a spot on heal that is as you state subpar.

I do agree that Wardens abilities do need adjustments.

For example Artic Winds the Polar Wind morph should be the ability that stuns and damages the enemy without any healing. Artic Blast should be a healing ability with bump in the HoT by 75% with a reduction from 5 seconds down to 3. You are getting more heals in less time but now not able to stun the target.

As other stated the healing line needs work as well.

Playnice

This is why there are so few wardens playing in PVP lately. They are just worse than all other classes right now, period. When a class tries to be mediocre lots of things, it just ends up being weak all around. No good burst heal option available. The mushroom cone is the one alternative burst skill, and it just weak because it hits AOE so there wont be any buffs to that without a complete redesign. That leaves Arctic Blast, a turd heal even when stacking health. Right now playing a warden feels like stacking 8 buffs and casting 2 decent attacks and then you are out of resources. The only viable competitive build for the warden class is pigeonholed to a support role.

ESO_Nightingale

Playnice wrote: »

This is why there are so few wardens playing in PVP lately. They are just worse than all other classes right now, period. When a class tries to be mediocre lots of things, it just ends up being weak all around. No good burst heal option available. The mushroom cone is the one alternative burst skill, and it just weak because it hits AOE so there wont be any buffs to that without a complete redesign. That leaves Arctic Blast, a turd heal even when stacking health. Right now playing a warden feels like stacking 8 buffs and casting 2 decent attacks and then you are out of resources. The only viable competitive build for the warden class is pigeonholed to a support role.

it's so genuinely awful right now. nothing works.